2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[HEZI]

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/podcasts/dane-moore-nba-podcast-jordan-taylor-on-his-teammate-theo-maledon-killian-hayes-film-review-w-will-deberg/

Good listen. BricKillian Hayes former teammate doesn't even think he's much better than Theo Maledon.

In 20 games before the Eurocup (not even EuroLeague but a weaker class of teams in which Hayes lead his team to a 1-10 record) BricKillian shot 22% from 3 on 2.75 attempts and made 0.6 three per game



BricKillian wasn't even his teams top scorer, they were lead by Zoran Dragic (Goran's brother).

Yeah so gonna have to say hard pass on this kid he aint it. Whoever wants to make the mistake of taking him at the top of the draft can go on and do so but Knicks can't afford to be that team. Do not need a Julius Randle type of shooter from the PG position, the team can only have so many lefties who can't shoot.

Dude doesn't even think Hayes is as good of a prospect as Sekou Doumbouya

1) Taylor played with Malédon, but had never played with Hayes. Before COVID, youth was getting the power in ASVEL (Malédon and Strazel)
2) Malédon is underrated since his injury in october, but his level is close to Hayes' level. Who is better? I don't know actually, so smart is the one who knows. BTW I maybe expect better NBA stats for Hayes, but I expect Malédon to be France's PG in the starting five for Paris 2024
3) Taylor would like to go back to ASVEL, so Imagine TP's reaction if Taylor would say "Hayes is clearly higher than Malédon"
4) Eurocup is not as good as Euroleague, but this is not Australian league ^^
5) Hayes' context was hard for his fist pro year, so he went to Ulm only to show up and making some stats. He did it. Ulm had not roster to play Eurocup.
6)I agree with you, there is a lot of garbage in Hayes' play, but he will clearly clean this. A point is that NBA game is more open than European game. I mean there is no defense zone, there is 3 sec defense rules, court is larger ... He clearly fit more US than European game
7) Hayes and Doumbouya are both all-star prospects, but that is more uncertain for Hayes
8) He would be a better choice for the Knicks than Ntilikina, but I saw how the Knicks dealt with him, so I don't wan't to see our 6th man for Paris 2024 going to the Knicks

Otherwise, I don't understand why so much hate for Hayes, even if he may be overrated.

Good post! That's the same vibe I get, that he's very mediocre. The Knicks franchise can't afford to take a mediocre PG because of our failures as a franchise over the years. Hayes might be worth the pick to somebody else but to the Knicks he simply doesn't make sense. We need to aim higher or take a much safer player than invest in Hayes. A team like the Pistons can take him and he can be bad there for years and it won't matter that much.

[3toheadmelo]

Cole is not even a “safe” player to take. He has the most flaws out of all of the point guards in the lottery. He will take years to get good. Might as well bet on someone like Hayes who has similar upside with significantly less flaws.

[HEZI]

Lamelo Ball 37% FG 25% 3P 72% FT 46% TS

LMAO

Haliburton >>>>>Lamelo

[Deeeez Knicks]

Lamelo Ball 37% FG 25% 3P 72% FT 46% TS

LMAO

Haliburton >>>>>Lamelo

I like Haliburton, but he doesn't have the ceiling of LaMelo. LaMelo's combination of passing/vision/handles/size is special to offset the shooting numbers. If LaMelo just cleans up the shooting a bit he's a star.

Haliburton can pass, just not aggressive enough. Doesnt get to the rim much in the half court, can;t shoot off the dibble. Hard to change the non-aggressive mentality. May need to be a Klay like shooter to be a star. Think he can be a nice, solid player though

[HEZI]

Lamelo Ball 37% FG 25% 3P 72% FT 46% TS

LMAO

Haliburton >>>>>Lamelo

I like Haliburton, but he doesn't have the ceiling of LaMelo. LaMelo's combination of passing/vision/handles/size is special to offset the shooting numbers. If LaMelo just cleans up the shooting a bit he's a star.

Haliburton can pass, just not aggressive enough. Doesnt get to the rim much in the half court, can;t shoot off the dibble. Hard to change the non-aggressive mentality. May need to be a Klay like shooter to be a star. Think he can be a nice, solid player though

No it's not. Those are horrific shooting numbers for a guy who loves to put up shots. More often than not he tries to be a "scoring" player but he's got the worst scoring efficiency in the entire draft. That doesn't offset anything, it's a major flaw. If he actually played a lead guard role and understood his role as a passer like his brother, he would be more valuable. He doesn't though and it's a major flaw. On top of that he's a lazy defender with terrible awareness. Then there is the immaturity issues, the all about branding and marketing baggage and you got so many red flags that just scream "stay away" from him. Not to mention he doesn't address any of our current weaknesses.

[HEZI]

Lamelo averaged 16.7 shots a game, which is more than Edwards and Cole, yet he had the least PPG output and the worst shooting %s

You want to talk about an inefficient ball dominant player, Lamelo would be a good place to start

[Deeeez Knicks]

Lamelo Ball 37% FG 25% 3P 72% FT 46% TS

LMAO

Haliburton >>>>>Lamelo

I like Haliburton, but he doesn't have the ceiling of LaMelo. LaMelo's combination of passing/vision/handles/size is special to offset the shooting numbers. If LaMelo just cleans up the shooting a bit he's a star.

Haliburton can pass, just not aggressive enough. Doesnt get to the rim much in the half court, can;t shoot off the dibble. Hard to change the non-aggressive mentality. May need to be a Klay like shooter to be a star. Think he can be a nice, solid player though

No it's not. Those are horrific shooting numbers for a guy who loves to put up shots. More often than not he tries to be a "scoring" player but he's got the worst scoring efficiency in the entire draft. That doesn't offset anything, it's a major flaw. If he actually played a lead guard role and understood his role as a passer like his brother, he would be more valuable. He doesn't though and it's a major flaw. On top of that he's a lazy defender with terrible awareness. Then there is the immaturity issues, the all about branding and marketing baggage and you got so many red flags that just scream "stay away" from him. Not to mention he doesn't address any of our current weaknesses.

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

[HEZI]

Lamelo 16.7 shots to average 17 PPG
Haliburton 11.1 shots to average 15 PPG

Lamelo 6.8 assists 7.8 rebounds 1.6 steals 2.5 turnovers
Haliburton 6.5 assists 5.9 rebounds 2.5 steals 2.8 turnovers

[King of Canada]

I'm so out of the conversation around the draft this year because I don't have a 1st rounder in BAF

[mpharris36]

I'm so out of the conversation around the draft this year because I don't have a 1st rounder in BAF

[HEZI]

I like Haliburton, but he doesn't have the ceiling of LaMelo. LaMelo's combination of passing/vision/handles/size is special to offset the shooting numbers. If LaMelo just cleans up the shooting a bit he's a star.

Haliburton can pass, just not aggressive enough. Doesnt get to the rim much in the half court, can;t shoot off the dibble. Hard to change the non-aggressive mentality. May need to be a Klay like shooter to be a star. Think he can be a nice, solid player though

No it's not. Those are horrific shooting numbers for a guy who loves to put up shots. More often than not he tries to be a "scoring" player but he's got the worst scoring efficiency in the entire draft. That doesn't offset anything, it's a major flaw. If he actually played a lead guard role and understood his role as a passer like his brother, he would be more valuable. He doesn't though and it's a major flaw. On top of that he's a lazy defender with terrible awareness. Then there is the immaturity issues, the all about branding and marketing baggage and you got so many red flags that just scream "stay away" from him. Not to mention he doesn't address any of our current weaknesses.

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

[King of Canada]

I'm so out of the conversation around the draft this year because I don't have a 1st rounder in BAF

[Deeeez Knicks]

Lamelo 16.7 shots to average 17 PPG
Haliburton 11.1 shots to average 15 PPG

Lamelo 6.8 assists 7.8 rebounds 1.6 steals 2.5 turnovers
Haliburton 6.5 assists 5.9 rebounds 2.5 steals 2.8 turnovers

Different leagues and roles. Doesn't really tell the entire picture.

Most of Haliburton's shots are set or catch and shoot or transition. He rarely shot mid range off the dribble or taking it to the rim. Plus only 11.1 shots per game just doesnt project as a very aggressive scorer. A lot of that is just in the style he plays, which is mroe of a secondary guy.

But at what he does, he was great at and think it will translate well....just not into the star.

[mpharris36]

No it's not. Those are horrific shooting numbers for a guy who loves to put up shots. More often than not he tries to be a "scoring" player but he's got the worst scoring efficiency in the entire draft. That doesn't offset anything, it's a major flaw. If he actually played a lead guard role and understood his role as a passer like his brother, he would be more valuable. He doesn't though and it's a major flaw. On top of that he's a lazy defender with terrible awareness. Then there is the immaturity issues, the all about branding and marketing baggage and you got so many red flags that just scream "stay away" from him. Not to mention he doesn't address any of our current weaknesses.

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

I think its a combination of both. Its a combination of what they did and what they can become by taking there skill set and trying to translate it to the NBA game. Its challenging because these guys are so young and we have very little worthwhile tape on most of these guys outside of the multi year college guys.

You have to do some projectability with prospects though. Othwise Grant Riller would be one of the first PG's off the board.

Or the fact that Derrick Rose only college year he scored 14pts 4.5 rebs and 4.5 assists. Which is nothing to stop you in your tracks. But there are other factors in play along with using there college/overseas production.

[mpharris36]

I'm so out of the conversation around the draft this year because I don't have a 1st rounder in BAF

I have had discussions but I have a perfect scenario if the top 7 falls the way I think it could go I might be making all my selections. I actually have a pretty strong plan A that would net my 9 prospects who could all get playing time on my team.

[HEZI]

Lamelo 16.7 shots to average 17 PPG
Haliburton 11.1 shots to average 15 PPG

Lamelo 6.8 assists 7.8 rebounds 1.6 steals 2.5 turnovers
Haliburton 6.5 assists 5.9 rebounds 2.5 steals 2.8 turnovers

Different leagues and roles. Doesn't really tell the entire picture.

Most of Haliburton's shots are set or catch and shoot or transition. He rarely shot mid range off the dribble or taking it to the rim. Plus only 11.1 shots per game just doesnt project as a very aggressive scorer. A lot of that is just in the style he plays, which is mroe of a secondary guy.

But at what he does, he was great at and think it will translate well....just not into the star.

17 shots for 17 points makes somebody a "star"? Lamelo shoots off the dribble but he sucks at it so I wouldn't call him a star for that. If I'm drafting Lamelo to be an aggressive scorer I'm not going to be happy with the result. 17 shots for 17 points is terrible

[Deeeez Knicks]

No it's not. Those are horrific shooting numbers for a guy who loves to put up shots. More often than not he tries to be a "scoring" player but he's got the worst scoring efficiency in the entire draft. That doesn't offset anything, it's a major flaw. If he actually played a lead guard role and understood his role as a passer like his brother, he would be more valuable. He doesn't though and it's a major flaw. On top of that he's a lazy defender with terrible awareness. Then there is the immaturity issues, the all about branding and marketing baggage and you got so many red flags that just scream "stay away" from him. Not to mention he doesn't address any of our current weaknesses.

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

You have to project players out into what kind of players you think they will become especially with so many young players. Not every player is the same age either so they are at different stages. Yea, there is more risk in LaMelo then Haliburton....LaMelo is also 1 1/2 years younger.

Def a chance it doesnt come together or he remains too inefficient but I would take the chance. Upside is still huge imo. If Knicks have the chance they need to roll the dice on the right players. LaMelo is def worth rolling the dice on. Just disagree on him

[HEZI]

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

I think its a combination of both. Its a combination of what they did and what they can become by taking there skill set and trying to translate it to the NBA game. Its challenging because these guys are so young and we have very little worthwhile tape on most of these guys outside of the multi year college guys.

You have to do some projectability with prospects though. Othwise Grant Riller would be one of the first PG's off the board.

Or the fact that Derrick Rose only college year he scored 14pts 4.5 rebs and 4.5 assists. Which is nothing to stop you in your tracks. But there are other factors in play along with using there college/overseas production.

I agree with this, that's why context needs to be applied to all prospects and not just selective to the ones we like. That doesn't happen so here we are

[HEZI]

We wouldnt be drafting him to be an efficient scorer. We would be drafting him as a great facilitator/PG. Even if he is never an efficient player, he can still be a great PG. He has an insane vision/feel/IQ for the game that can't be taught. A nice touch around the rim. The weakness's are things that can be improved. Like everyone else in the draft he has some flaws and things he needs to work around. Think those areas are things that can def be worked on or can live with them.

Our biggest need is PG and LaMelo would address that as the best PG, potentially best player in the draft.

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

You have to project players out into what kind of players you think they will become especially with so many young players. Not every player is the same age either so they are at different stages. Yea, there is more risk in LaMelo then Haliburton....LaMelo is also 1 1/2 years younger.

Def a chance it doesnt come together or he remains too inefficient but I would take the chance. Upside is still huge imo. If Knicks have the chance they need to roll the dice on the right players. LaMelo is def worth rolling the dice on. Just disagree on him

I'd rather take the risk on Cole considering the Knicks current needs and weaknesses. Lamelo doesn't fill what the Knicks need from their lead guard. He could fill it for another team but imo we need more of what Cole brings than what Lamelo does.

[mpharris36]

There is a lot of hyperbole here. "insane vision/feel/IQ" is gassing him up quite a bit. You also have to take him as the player he is, not the player you picture him being in your ideal idea of him. The player that he is is a guy who shoots a lot and is inefficient, so even if you aren't drafting him to be that you are still going to get that.

I think its a combination of both. Its a combination of what they did and what they can become by taking there skill set and trying to translate it to the NBA game. Its challenging because these guys are so young and we have very little worthwhile tape on most of these guys outside of the multi year college guys.

You have to do some projectability with prospects though. Othwise Grant Riller would be one of the first PG's off the board.

Or the fact that Derrick Rose only college year he scored 14pts 4.5 rebs and 4.5 assists. Which is nothing to stop you in your tracks. But there are other factors in play along with using there college/overseas production.

I agree with this, that's why context needs to be applied to all prospects and not just selective to the ones we like. That doesn't happen so here we are

I think most are being pretty fair with the prospects around here. Obviously everyone has there bias in what they like in prospects but for the most part.

Everyone has the right to there opinion thats why we have this message board but I do think your are being extra harsh on Lamelo and Hayes who are widely considered the two best PG's in the draft. While they do have there flaws most people who scout and do this for a living have them 1 and 2. Now you have every right to see it differently but there is a reason they have these guys 1 and 2.

You specifically have Cole and Haliburton above both. I would say you might be one of the few on that island which is cool but I think you need to understand where Deeeez is coming from he's really not arguing a different point then what 99% of the people are saying.