Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[dckingsfan]

We have been trying to do that for decades... with only backward movement. Once an institution is in place it fights not to change. That is a tired mantra that just isn't effective. We need to move away from that failing mantra.

Especially the "stop blaming the hardworking... pick the worker" mantra. No one is blaming them that is a strawman argument. It is a systematic problem. It is the construct of the institution that is the problem. The only reason there is some success is that those good workers work around the system. Think of how well they could do in a better construct than the one from the 50s.

And no, many failing schools that were decommissioned and recommissioned succeeded. So, there is that...

Well, if you want teachers and police officers (the frontline workers) to buy into the changes and reforms you want to make, it's smart to have them and/or their representatives at the table...as well as the community, parents and other stakeholders. Topdown changes never work.

Actually not. Let's take police officers and their unions. They are never going to agree to remove immunity. The union doesn't want to see its numbers reduced (for other types of institutions). They aren't going to voluntarily remove the blue wall.

That construct needs to be blown to smithereens and then rebuilt. And without due influence of those stakeholders.

And yes, proper construct changes do work.

[dobrojim]

I am only vaguely familiar with Chappelle (mostly because I am old
and don't follow pop culture that closely) but a friend sent me this link.

it's long (27 min) but worth a listen as long as 'rough' language doesn't offend
you too much.

Watch on YouTube

[Zonkerbl]

I am only vaguely familiar with Chappelle (mostly because I am old
and don't follow pop culture that closely) but a friend sent me this link.

it's long (27 min) but worth a listen as long as 'rough' language doesn't offend
you too much.

Watch on YouTube

Dave Chappelle lives in my home town! I used to smoke pot with his sister!

[Pointgod]

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate

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[Wizardspride]

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate

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Tag him to make sure he sees it.

I doubt he'll respond....

[I_Like_Dirt]

Actually not. Let's take police officers and their unions. They are never going to agree to remove immunity. The union doesn't want to see its numbers reduced (for other types of institutions). They aren't going to voluntarily remove the blue wall.

That construct needs to be blown to smithereens and then rebuilt. And without due influence of those stakeholders.

And yes, proper construct changes do work.

I'm absolutely okay with this but if we're doing it this way we also need to get all the private sector biases out of the room, too. Figure out what we actually want schools to do and then go about setting up something that does that, which is where I think post-secondary is a great place to start as a point in time where there's a goal that education will have to hit. It's time to take back good government on more than a few fronts. No more privatizing the profits and socializing the costs.

Edit:

And to the topic, schools that are doing well may often have to change. If a school is rolling because they're in an area with wealthier families and the ones that are failing don't have the same revenue and are burdened with structures that are equipped to work in completely different realities, then yes, those schools that are doing well might have to be a part of a restructuring that doesn't allow them to hoard wealth in the same way they've traditionally done it. And to be honest, it's also about time they re-evaluate sport as funding for schools, at least in the traditional sense it's used today.

[dobrojim]

Hasan Minhaj just did a episode on Patriot Act about colleges and money.
On Netflix. Highly recommended.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Hasan Minhaj just did a episode on Patriot Act about colleges and money.
On Netflix. Highly recommended.

Yeah, I saw that after I made my post. Dude is right about the broad idea. In particular he does a great job of laying out a few of the reasons colleges need a rethink at this point and why it's probably not a good idea to turn them into a version of non-profit hedge funds. Education is great but is also acting as a financial gateway to individual economic stability which is something that should probably be done away with and replaced with something that actually develops students who have a better idea of what the workforce is about and how skills they're learning are applied in reality rather than how to become university professors - this applies both academically and socially.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

Hasan Minhaj just did a episode on Patriot Act about colleges and money.
On Netflix. Highly recommended.

Yeah, I saw that after I made my post. Dude is right about the broad idea. In particular he does a great job of laying out a few of the reasons colleges need a rethink at this point and why it's probably not a good idea to turn them into a version of non-profit hedge funds. Education is great but is also acting as a financial gateway to individual economic stability which is something that should probably be done away with and replaced with something that actually develops students who have a better idea of what the workforce is about and how skills they're learning are applied in reality rather than how to become university professors - this applies both academically and socially.

Terrible idea. We should not turn universities and colleges into vocational schools. If people want a vocation they should go to vocational school. Purpose of universities and colleges is to give rich kids a place to learn how to be a decent human being before they're unleashed into the world. It's an important part of holding this democracy full of idiots together.

As they say in economics, the cure to high prices is high prices. Students need to/eventually will come to realize that paying out mortgages worth of money for the privilege of rubbing shoulders with people wealthier than you is not really worth it, and start going to vocational school instead. That's where all the one and two week software programming classes are and where the large majority of students in the lower half of performance in college should be going instead.

[pancakes3]

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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-obama-didn-t-reform-policing-he-did-then-n1231200

[Zonkerbl]

You should read every word of this article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/16/this-seattle-protest-zone-is-police-free-so-volunteers-are-stepping-up-provide-security/

[Zonkerbl]

Police have been in existence WORLDWIDE for less than 200 years

September 29, 1829
Royal assent to the Metropolitan Police Act 1829 was given and the Metropolitan Police Service was established on September 29, 1829 in London as the first modern and professional police force in the world.

[dckingsfan]

Hasan Minhaj just did a episode on Patriot Act about colleges and money.
On Netflix. Highly recommended.

Yeah, I saw that after I made my post. Dude is right about the broad idea. In particular he does a great job of laying out a few of the reasons colleges need a rethink at this point and why it's probably not a good idea to turn them into a version of non-profit hedge funds. Education is great but is also acting as a financial gateway to individual economic stability which is something that should probably be done away with and replaced with something that actually develops students who have a better idea of what the workforce is about and how skills they're learning are applied in reality rather than how to become university professors - this applies both academically and socially.

Terrible idea. We should not turn universities and colleges into vocational schools. If people want a vocation they should go to vocational school. Purpose of universities and colleges is to give rich kids a place to learn how to be a decent human being before they're unleashed into the world. It's an important part of holding this democracy full of idiots together.

As they say in economics, the cure to high prices is high prices. Students need to/eventually will come to realize that paying out mortgages worth of money for the privilege of rubbing shoulders with people wealthier than you is not really worth it, and start going to vocational school instead. That's where all the one and two week software programming classes are and where the large majority of students in the lower half of performance in college should be going instead.

First, do I think public education higher ed needs to be changed... yep. Private education higher ed - well, that is up to them (of course making them non-profits is something that could be addressed).

But having said that - there is no reason that we don't fix our community colleges first to become modern vocational schools. Otherwise they serve little purpose in today's world. It would be a solid first step. Failing K-12 schools right behind that...

[Zonkerbl]

Police have been in existence WORLDWIDE for less than 200 years

September 29, 1829
Royal assent to the Metropolitan Police Act 1829 was given and the Metropolitan Police Service was established on September 29, 1829 in London as the first modern and professional police force in the world.

For reference, the industrial revolution, the harbinger of the modern Capitalist system, began in 1760.

So the world was able to survive in a relatively modern capitalist democratic society for 70 years without professional gun wielding minority dominators.

[pancakes3]

Police have been in existence WORLDWIDE for less than 200 years

September 29, 1829
Royal assent to the Metropolitan Police Act 1829 was given and the Metropolitan Police Service was established on September 29, 1829 in London as the first modern and professional police force in the world.

For reference, the industrial revolution, the harbinger of the modern Capitalist system, began in 1760.

So the world was able to survive in a relatively modern capitalist democratic society for 70 years without professional gun wielding minority dominators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country

[Ruzious]

Yeah, I saw that after I made my post. Dude is right about the broad idea. In particular he does a great job of laying out a few of the reasons colleges need a rethink at this point and why it's probably not a good idea to turn them into a version of non-profit hedge funds. Education is great but is also acting as a financial gateway to individual economic stability which is something that should probably be done away with and replaced with something that actually develops students who have a better idea of what the workforce is about and how skills they're learning are applied in reality rather than how to become university professors - this applies both academically and socially.

Terrible idea. We should not turn universities and colleges into vocational schools. If people want a vocation they should go to vocational school. Purpose of universities and colleges is to give rich kids a place to learn how to be a decent human being before they're unleashed into the world. It's an important part of holding this democracy full of idiots together.

As they say in economics, the cure to high prices is high prices. Students need to/eventually will come to realize that paying out mortgages worth of money for the privilege of rubbing shoulders with people wealthier than you is not really worth it, and start going to vocational school instead. That's where all the one and two week software programming classes are and where the large majority of students in the lower half of performance in college should be going instead.

First, do I think public education higher ed needs to be changed... yep. Private education higher ed - well, that is up to them (of course making them non-profits is something that could be addressed).

But having said that - there is no reason that we don't fix our community colleges first to become modern vocational schools. Otherwise they serve little purpose in today's world. It would be a solid first step. Failing K-12 schools right behind that...

Community colleges serve an important purpose for a lot of people. For kids who aren't ready for a big 4 year college, putting in 2 good years at a community college is what they need to them ready for a 4 year college.

[dckingsfan]

Terrible idea. We should not turn universities and colleges into vocational schools. If people want a vocation they should go to vocational school. Purpose of universities and colleges is to give rich kids a place to learn how to be a decent human being before they're unleashed into the world. It's an important part of holding this democracy full of idiots together.

As they say in economics, the cure to high prices is high prices. Students need to/eventually will come to realize that paying out mortgages worth of money for the privilege of rubbing shoulders with people wealthier than you is not really worth it, and start going to vocational school instead. That's where all the one and two week software programming classes are and where the large majority of students in the lower half of performance in college should be going instead.

First, do I think public education higher ed needs to be changed... yep. Private education higher ed - well, that is up to them (of course making them non-profits is something that could be addressed).

But having said that - there is no reason that we don't fix our community colleges first to become modern vocational schools. Otherwise they serve little purpose in today's world. It would be a solid first step. Failing K-12 schools right behind that...

Community colleges serve an important purpose for a lot of people. For kids who aren't ready for a big 4 year college, putting in 2 good years at a community college is what they need to them ready for a 4 year college.

Violent agreement! And they can be one of the first places to enhance.

[gtn130]

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Nate, is this Antifa?