consensus big board -- who is #27?

getrichordie · Post #1 » by **getrichordie** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:09 pm

YOU MAY SELECT TWO OPTIONS

DO NOT FORGET TO POST REASONING BEHIND SELECTION.

Jalen Smith slightly edges out Leandro Bolmaro by 1 vote for the 26th spot.

Adding Xavier Tillman Sr. to the poll.

current consensus big board:

Spoiler:

Who is going to be #26?

getrichordie · Post #2 » by **getrichordie** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:15 pm

I voted Scrubb. Too much athleticism that is eye-popping and he can shoot from a variety of different platforms. Prototypical 2-guard.

My other vote was Crutcher. Potential is a lot higher than these other guys, IMO. Consensus is sleeping on him. :sleep:

LofJ · Post #3 » by **LofJ** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:38 pm

I voted for a pair of Blue Devils - Jones and Carey.

aguiar95 · Post #4 » by **aguiar95** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:01 pm

I went with the only guy that shouldn't be here. Ramsey is just to good when compared to the others on the board.

clyde21 · Post #5 » by **clyde21** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:44 pm

Stewy, Nico, Bolmaro

azcatz11 · Post #6 » by **azcatz11** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:10 pm

Man...Nico Mannion really fell hard. Does anyone think he can be a starter or is the consensus now good backup?

babyjax13 · Post #7 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:59 am

azcatz11 wrote:Man...Nico Mannion really fell hard. Does anyone think he can be a starter or is the consensus now good backup?

I'd assume consensus backup.

Went Bolmaro and Tillman again.

Stillwater · Post #8 » by **Stillwater** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:50 pm

azcatz11 wrote:Man...Nico Mannion really fell hard. Does anyone think he can be a starter or is the consensus now good backup?

fell on these boards doesnt equate too much lol
have you looked at the list?
some options not even given as options are projecting to be better pros than others voted in weeks ago.
Mannion needs to get stronger but his vision is elite enough to be a shoe in starter as a rookie on a lottery team.

getrichordie · Post #9 » by **getrichordie** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:02 pm

Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

If his shooting skill set improves a good bit, he could be a fine backup.

But what else does he bring to the table?

Stillwater · Post #10 » by **Stillwater** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:58 pm

getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

If his shooting skill set improves a good bit, he could be a fine backup.

But what else does he bring to the table?

lol if you have to ask...
not sure if you were watching reruns of scooby when Zona played or what but it's clear he is one of the highest iq true point guard prospects in the entire class top to bottom. Only knocks I see are he needs to get stronger like most one and done guards to handle bigger NBA defenders and to be able to defend on switches. I think he is probably an offensive guard at best for a couple of seasons so for that reason it's fair to lower his stock to the late lottery to early 20 range because he is not starter material at any one thing yet besides his first step and reading defenses but those 2 things alone are enough to start on a lottery team while he gets stronger.
I would not think most orgs have him ranked that much behind the lottery projected points in this class tbh.

getrichordie · Post #11 » by **getrichordie** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:52 am

Stillwater wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

If his shooting skill set improves a good bit, he could be a fine backup.

But what else does he bring to the table?

lol if you have to ask...
not sure if you were watching reruns of scooby when Zona played or what but it's clear he is one of the highest iq true point guard prospects in the entire class top to bottom. Only knocks I see are he needs to get stronger like most one and done guards to handle bigger NBA defenders and to be able to defend on switches. I think he is probably an offensive guard at best for a couple of seasons so for that reason it's fair to lower his stock to the late lottery to early 20 range because he is not starter material at any one thing yet besides his first step and reading defenses but those 2 things alone are enough to start on a lottery team while he gets stronger.
I would not think most orgs have him ranked that much behind the lottery projected points in this class tbh.

So, he's got a good first step and good vision/IQ. So-so shooter and so-so defensively? Do I have that right?

Catchall · Post #12 » by **Catchall** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:34 am

At this point in the draft, I'm starting to get interested in Tyrell Terry.

Stillwater · Post #13 » by **Stillwater** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:44 am

getrichordie wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

If his shooting skill set improves a good bit, he could be a fine backup.

But what else does he bring to the table?

lol if you have to ask...
not sure if you were watching reruns of scooby when Zona played or what but it's clear he is one of the highest iq true point guard prospects in the entire class top to bottom. Only knocks I see are he needs to get stronger like most one and done guards to handle bigger NBA defenders and to be able to defend on switches. I think he is probably an offensive guard at best for a couple of seasons so for that reason it's fair to lower his stock to the late lottery to early 20 range because he is not starter material at any one thing yet besides his first step and reading defenses but those 2 things alone are enough to start on a lottery team while he gets stronger.
I would not think most orgs have him ranked that much behind the lottery projected points in this class tbh.

So, he's got a good first step and good vision/IQ. So-so shooter and so-so defensively? Do I have that right?

Teams interested will want to see his medicals and status of his back spasms since his % overall and from 3 nose dived after the lower back injury. I mean he was shooting over 50% from deep and 48% from the field . If his future projects to give those numbers teams could be drooling over him in the late lottery.
Personally dont see him ever being a + defender but i would have plenty of confidence pairing him with a solid defender at the 2 guard.
His passing ability along with a decent amount of athleticism albeit not explosive looks transferable. Add those shooting %s if he is healthy and hes going to be a steal outside the lottery.
There quite a few decent pgs in this class but hes underrated at this time imo

HotelVitale · Post #14 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:58 am

getrichordie wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter? If his shooting skill set improves a good bit, he could be a fine backup. But what else does he bring to the table?

lol if you have to ask... not sure if you were watching reruns of scooby when Zona played or what but it's clear he is one of the highest iq true point guard prospects in the entire class top to bottom. Only knocks I see are he needs to get stronger like most one and done guards to handle bigger NBA defenders and to be able to defend on switches. I think he is probably an offensive guard at best for a couple of seasons so for that reason it's fair to lower his stock to the late lottery to early 20 range because he is not starter material at any one thing yet besides his first step and reading defenses but those 2 things alone are enough to start on a lottery team while he gets stronger. I would not think most orgs have him ranked that much behind the lottery projected points in this class tbh.
So, he's got a good first step and good vision/IQ. So-so shooter and so-so defensively? Do I have that right?

Haven't seen that much of him but he definitely doesn't have a first step that's going to do anything for him at the next level, not getting where that idea comes from. And he doesn't just 'need to get stronger'--he'll be outright small for a point that isn't a plus athlete at all. He also doesn't have any particular way to score, isn't a good driver (and seems to sorta suck as a finisher) and doesn't have a money stepback or pull-up or anything else. He can make a lot of passes that would work in the NBA and has a chance to be a pn'r-first (and second, and third) PG, and it's possible he has a kind of special feel for the game--hasn't exactly demonstrated that this year but I can see why some might take a bet on it. Even if that's the case, though, it looks like he'll need to develop a bunch of stuff to make that feel translate into real NBA production.

Not saying he's bad or worthless but he has pretty huge bust potential and you'd have to just have a lot of blind faith in his intangibles to really like him. And I also could see the shot being better than it was this year, but again there's no reason to believe that besides just sort of having a feeling about it.

clyde21 · Post #15 » by **clyde21** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:06 am

getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

dude...when are u gonna stop making this stupid ass argument? the majority of good PGs in the league are 6-3 or under

clyde21 · Post #16 » by **clyde21** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:09 am

Steph Curry
Damian Lillard
Chris Paul
Kyrie Irving
Trae Young
Kemba Walker
Ja Morant
George Hill
Eric Bledsoe
Ricky Rubio
De'Aaron Fox
Donovan Mitchell
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley

all guys 6-3 and under

just stop with this argument, every time u make it and double down it comes across even worse

getrichordie · Post #17 » by **getrichordie** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:10 am

clyde21 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

dude...when are u gonna stop making this stupid ass argument? the majority of good PGs in the league are 6-3 or under

And I understand that, but I'm asking what else he brings to the table at the next level? Vision/IQ alone isn't enough to be a starter. Give me an example of that being the case.

clyde21 · Post #18 » by **clyde21** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:14 am

getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Cool. Mannion has vision. When has 6'3 vision ever been enough to be a starter?

dude...when are u gonna stop making this stupid ass argument? the majority of good PGs in the league are 6-3 or under

And I understand that, but I'm asking what else he brings to the table at the next level? Vision/IQ alone isn't enough to be a starter. Give me an example of that being the case.

i think he has a clear path as a back PG but eventually turning into a starter is not out of question, having good vision and bbiq is the most important aspect for a PG, he's also got + handles, is quick enough, hits his FTs at a high clip and isn't a total negative defensively...he's got a strong baseline to eventually develop into a starter.

and sure, I just did a bunch...Mike Conley started for a decade for example. what does/did Conley have that Nico doesn't?

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I've Jordan Nowra here/other

getrichordie · Post #20 » by **getrichordie** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:52 am

clyde21 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
dude...when are u gonna stop making this stupid ass argument? the majority of good PGs in the league are 6-3 or under

And I understand that, but I'm asking what else he brings to the table at the next level? Vision/IQ alone isn't enough to be a starter. Give me an example of that being the case.

i think he has a clear path as a back PG but eventually turning into a starter is not out of question, having good vision and bbiq is the most important aspect for a PG, he's also got + handles, is quick enough, hits his FTs at a high clip and isn't a total negative defensively...he's got a strong baseline to eventually develop into a starter.

and sure, I just did a bunch...Mike Conley started for a decade for example. what does/did Conley have that Nico doesn't?

Are you really trying to compare Mannion to Conley? Why not just put him top 5 on your board then?

You realize Conley was drafted 4th overall, right? It was easy to see Conley being a starting point in the league. Yet you are talking about how it's "not out of the question" for Mannion. See the difference?

To answer your question, Conley was a MUCH better athlete than Mannion and had WAY better handles and could actually shoot the basketball, which is an important part of the game for a point guard. Not only that, he could shoot it from a variety of platforms, though he didn't have great percentages from 3 in college -- but the touch was most definitely there. He also showed the ability to finish at the rim in a variety of ways, something Mannion has most definitely not. And don't even get me started on the difference between their first steps. Conley was also a much better defender coming out college than Mannion was. It's not even close really.

Good FT shooting is a good indicator for being a good shooter, sure. But it doesn't equate to being a good shooter. One of the most important parts of the game is being able to create space, which Conley could do at a much higher level than Mannion.

I mean... dude. Just taking a quick glance at some key per 40 stats and a couple of advanced stats paints the picture pretty clearly.

conley

ws/40 — .199
FTr — 46.6
TS% — 58.4%
14.3 pts
7.7 asts
2.8 tovs
2.8 stls

mannion

ws/40 — .152
FTr — 36.2
TS% — 52.0%
17.3 pts
6.6 asts
3.2 tovs
1.5 stls