TIEBREAKER 24 hour VOTE! onyeka okongwu vs cole anthony

[mpharris36]

How about this also determines pick 8? Winner gets 7, loser gets 8?

I wouldn't be opposed to that either. Depends on how people feel. However that could in theory change the vot because if say OO wins and now those 14 votes that went to OO go to say Obi or Kira now...then Anthony wouldn't win that vote either.

Or vice versa maybe all the cole anthony votes go to Obi at that point?

I only say keep them at 7 and 8 because nobody else was remotely close to these two in the original poll

Then again we have 2 months to kill

thats what im saying. We want everything new but we have so much time to kill. I mean in the second round I might be considering adding you can maybe select 2-3 options just so we can get a bit more variety or something like .

[mpharris36]

How about this also determines pick 8? Winner gets 7, loser gets 8?

I wouldn't be opposed to that either. Depends on how people feel. However that could in theory change the vot because if say OO wins and now those 14 votes that went to OO go to say Obi or Kira now...then Anthony wouldn't win that vote either.

Or vice versa maybe all the cole anthony votes go to Obi at that point?

I think it should be a new poll personally...most likely the other guy wins, but you never know where the votes will go. We have plenty of time anyway.

thats how I see it. There are still 14 votes that now will be spread out and that coudl be enough to basically make anyone win from obi to vassell to kira

[moocow007]

You don't burn a lotto pick on a guy like Onyeka

Players like him can be found later in the draft. Energy bigs with limited skills are not hard to find and you can get them for cheap

And inefficient volume shooting guards are hard to find in the NBA? See I can do the same thing. Let's be fair here. There's a reason Okongwu is near the top of most mocks while Anthony is middle of the pack. I'm guessing that it's because most feel he's more than just a "energy big with limited skills".

Whoever needs him can take him. Knicks don't need him and have no business wasting their only lotto pick on him.

What skills does he have?

What players do the Knicks have that are guaranteed locks for anything? For the love of pete, the Knicks are the least talented team in the NBA next to the Pistons and Mitchell Robinson hasn't shown he's more than Clint Capela. If you think Okongwu is marginal (your words) then why would the Knicks having Mitchell Robinson be a big determinant of lack of need (guys like Robinson and Okongwu are a dime a dozen right?)?

Okongwu is an elite versatile defender, he has great basketball instincts, he's physically dominant, he's light on his feel and very fluid, high basketball IQ and he's always, he has shooting potential considering he shoots at a high percentage on a lot of free throw attempts.

What skills do Cole Anthony have? Chucking balls at the basket? See again, I can also marginalize one player undeservedly as well.

[malik959]

You don't burn a lotto pick on a guy like Onyeka

Players like him can be found later in the draft. Energy bigs with limited skills are not hard to find and you can get them for cheap

And inefficient volume shooting guards are hard to find in the NBA? See I can do the same thing. Let's be fair here. There's a reason Okongwu is near the top of most mocks while Anthony is middle of the pack. I'm guessing that it's because most feel he's more than just a "energy big with limited skills".

Maybe it's because teams like Chicago, Washington, and Charlotte aren't really pressed for more guards so after us there's a big drop with whatever guard we dont pick.

[moocow007]

You don't burn a lotto pick on a guy like Onyeka

Players like him can be found later in the draft. Energy bigs with limited skills are not hard to find and you can get them for cheap

And inefficient volume shooting guards are hard to find in the NBA? See I can do the same thing. Let's be fair here. There's a reason Okongwu is near the top of most mocks while Anthony is middle of the pack. I'm guessing that it's because most feel he's more than just a "energy big with limited skills".

Maybe it's because teams like Chicago, Washington, and Charlotte aren't really pressed for more guards so after us there's a big drop with whatever guard we dont pick.

Mock drafts big boards are not team based...so that's not it.

Tankathon's Big Board, for example, has Okongwu 2nd overall and Cole Anthony 18th overall. Their mock actually is base don team needs (and who they think the teams would pick) there's more teams that need Cole Anthony (he moves up to 10th pick in their mock) than Okongwu based on that criteria (who is tagged as the 8th pick).

[3toheadmelo]

Onyeka to me is a more mobile Wendell Carter which is still a great player to have.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Onyeka just looks like the better prospect with a higher ceiling.

Cole struggled a little too much for me to get behind him with a high pick. Can always scoop up scoring G later.

We're a bottom 5 team right now in outside scoring, give me a guard who can score, has the mamba like mentality to take over at any given moment, and isn't afraid to get hit in the paint to go with a 4 who can spread the floor and we're in business.

Is Cole that guy though? He really struggled to take over games, shoot efficiently and make plays. Is he even THAT much better then say Myles Powell? Can always look at him or another G later on like Grant Riler. I would take Cole over those guys, but just not sure he's that good overall to be a top 8 pick.

[malik959]

Really? For months they had him going to the Knicks even when we were lower on the boards.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I wouldn't be opposed to that either. Depends on how people feel. However that could in theory change the vot because if say OO wins and now those 14 votes that went to OO go to say Obi or Kira now...then Anthony wouldn't win that vote either.

Or vice versa maybe all the cole anthony votes go to Obi at that point?

I think it should be a new poll personally...most likely the other guy wins, but you never know where the votes will go. We have plenty of time anyway.

thats how I see it. There are still 14 votes that now will be spread out and that coudl be enough to basically make anyone win from obi to vassell to kira

True...2nd place shouldn't win a prize.

[moocow007]

Really? For months they had him going to the Knicks even when we were lower on the boards.

Okongu is one of 4 "Tier 1" players on their player ranking. The other 3 are Lamelo Ball, James Wiseman and Killian Hayes. Cole Anthony is in the middle of the pack in the group titled "The Rest". This is on player ranking exclusively of who they think a team would bite on and pick. Their big board hasn't changed in months.

IF we are basing the pick on BPA then Okongwu makes much more sense. IF we are basing this pick on positional need then it's a lot easier to argue that Cole Anthony may be the pick. Which is why both guys are tied in all likelihood.

[HEZI]

And inefficient volume shooting guards are hard to find in the NBA? See I can do the same thing. Let's be fair here. There's a reason Okongwu is near the top of most mocks while Anthony is middle of the pack. I'm guessing that it's because most feel he's more than just a "energy big with limited skills".

Whoever needs him can take him. Knicks don't need him and have no business wasting their only lotto pick on him.

What skills does he have?

What players do the Knicks have that are guaranteed locks for anything? For the love of pete, the Knicks are the least talented team in the NBA next to the Pistons and Mitchell Robinson hasn't shown he's more than Clint Capela. If you think Okongwu is marginal (your words) then why would the Knicks having Mitchell Robinson be a big determinant of lack of need (guys like Robinson and Okongwu are a dime a dozen right?)?

Okongwu is an elite versatile defender, he has great basketball instincts, he's physically dominant, he's light on his feel and very fluid, high basketball IQ and he's always, he has shooting potential considering he shoots at a high percentage on a lot of free throw attempts.

What skills do Cole Anthony have? Chucking balls at the basket? See again, I can also marginalize one player undeservedly as well.

Knicks aren't the least talented team in the league, what are you talking about? They are the worst shooting team in the league with the worst guards in the league, terrible depth, terrible chemistry and floor balance, bad leadership, etc.

You talking about talent and you think just grabbing some big with limited offensive skills is going to solve our issues?

Knicks have a huge collection of former lotto picks, from Randle to RJ to Elfrid Payton to DSJ to Frank to Knox to the dudes no longer here like Mudiay and Herzonja and Vonleh, etc. It's not a lack of talent, it's a lack of an actual team with floor spacing and roles and chemistry and leadership.

You want to add an athletic big with nothing but inside scoring ability, terrible decision making with the ball who relies on guards and you want to add him to a team with the worst guards and worst collective shooting in the league? Because you think we just need to throw "talent" together and it's somehow going to work? We've been trying that for years and it hasn't worked.

[3toheadmelo]

Cole Anthony is not even better than Lamar Peters

[mpharris36]

[malik959]

Really? For months they had him going to the Knicks even when we were lower on the boards.

[moocow007]

Whoever needs him can take him. Knicks don't need him and have no business wasting their only lotto pick on him.

What skills does he have?

What players do the Knicks have that are guaranteed locks for anything? For the love of pete, the Knicks are the least talented team in the NBA next to the Pistons and Mitchell Robinson hasn't shown he's more than Clint Capela. If you think Okongwu is marginal (your words) then why would the Knicks having Mitchell Robinson be a big determinant of lack of need (guys like Robinson and Okongwu are a dime a dozen right?)?

Okongwu is an elite versatile defender, he has great basketball instincts, he's physically dominant, he's light on his feel and very fluid, high basketball IQ and he's always, he has shooting potential considering he shoots at a high percentage on a lot of free throw attempts.

What skills do Cole Anthony have? Chucking balls at the basket? See again, I can also marginalize one player undeservedly as well.

Knicks aren't the least talented team in the league, what are you talking about? They are the worst shooting team in the league with the worst guards in the league, terrible depth, terrible chemistry and floor balance, bad leadership, etc.

Their most talented player is Julius Randle who 90% of this board is wiling trade for a bottle of warm stale beer. So, yeah, they are among the least talented teams in the NBA. The rest of that stuff is also true and a big contributing part of that is their lack of talent.

You talking about talent and you think just grabbing some big with limited offensive skills is going to solve our issues?

Talent is not just offense, you do realize that right? If talent was just offense Bill Russell wouldn't be considered for the Mount Rushmore of NBA basketball. Dikembe Mutombo wouldn't be talked about as one of the 100 greatest players ever. Rodman, Bobby Jones, etc...all those guys.

But ok, you must be a fan of Julius Randle if you think talent equates to just offense. And that's before considering inefficient offense that you're going to get out of Cole Anthony. Chucking balls at the basket isn't talent...again you see how I'm marginalizing someone skills like you are?

I'm sure if you tell Okongwu to just chuck that he'd be able to put up more points and therefore be "more offensive" as well. I mean let's see he shot 62% (while averaging 16.2 ppg) from the field to 38% for Cole Anthony (and 18.5ppg). I would think he can average 18.5 ppg if he shot more and still keep it above 50%. So who is the less talented offensive player here?

Knicks have a huge collection of former lotto picks, from Randle to RJ to Elfrid Payton to DSJ to Frank to Knox to the dudes no longer here like Mudiay and Herzonja and Vonleh, etc. It's not a lack of talent, it's a lack of an actual team with floor spacing and roles and chemistry and leadership.

Oh come on. Other than Barrett who hasn't exactly shown he's anything more than the next Thaddeus Young, the Knicks have a pretty much bunch of failed lottery picks. Randle, Payton, DSJ, Frank, Knox? Are you serious? That is a bottom of the barrel team. There is little real talent there.

You want to add an athletic big with nothing but inside scoring ability, terrible decision making with the ball who relies on guards and you want to add him to a team with the worst guards and worst collective shooting in the league? Because you think we just need to throw "talent" together and it's somehow going to work? We've been trying that for years and it hasn't worked.

I'm sorry I didn't realize we were in any position to actually win games? Or are you saying the knicks are a Cole Anthony away from being anything more than they were? If so, you're insane.

I think just throwing "talent" together works? Did you read your last paragraph trying to argue that the players that are "thrown" together on the current team constitutes talent? Which side are you arguing here? I sad this team has NO talent, you bring up the current team as an argument refute my statement that this team has no talent. Then you insult the same team that you said has talent by saying that this team "thrown together" hasn't worked. HUH?

Read everything you wrote before carefully. Maybe then you're realize you're arguing yourself in circles.

But ok, 3 of the 5 guys YOU argued qualify as "talent" on this team are guards, specifically point guards. So why on earth would we need another PG? We only have 1 center, no real PF if everyone gets their wish and Randle is dumped and obviously that is more than enough to not have need of a PF/C.

[moocow007]

Really? For months they had him going to the Knicks even when we were lower on the boards.

Who? Cole Anthony or Okongwu? I've not seen any mock that has Okongwu going to the Knicks. Cole Anthony has been associated with the Knicks since he was in HS on account of who his dad was, where he's from, how much his game resembles specific other former Knick PG and the general assumption that the Knicks need a PG.

[malik959]

And inefficient volume shooting guards are hard to find in the NBA? See I can do the same thing. Let's be fair here. There's a reason Okongwu is near the top of most mocks while Anthony is middle of the pack. I'm guessing that it's because most feel he's more than just a "energy big with limited skills".

Maybe it's because teams like Chicago, Washington, and Charlotte aren't really pressed for more guards so after us there's a big drop with whatever guard we dont pick.

Mock drafts big boards are not team based...so that's not it.

Tankathon's Big Board, for example, has Okongwu 2nd overall and Cole Anthony 18th overall. Their mock actually is base don team needs (and who they think the teams would pick) there's more teams that need Cole Anthony (he moves up to 10th pick in their mock) than Okongwu based on that criteria (who is tagged as the 8th pick).

Not always true, a lot of times it seems like who ever is the hot topic on a board like RealGm they'll take that player and put him with that team. For a long time Cole was sitting in our laps even when were at 3.

[moocow007]

Maybe it's because teams like Chicago, Washington, and Charlotte aren't really pressed for more guards so after us there's a big drop with whatever guard we dont pick.

Mock drafts big boards are not team based...so that's not it.

Tankathon's Big Board, for example, has Okongwu 2nd overall and Cole Anthony 18th overall. Their mock actually is base don team needs (and who they think the teams would pick) there's more teams that need Cole Anthony (he moves up to 10th pick in their mock) than Okongwu based on that criteria (who is tagged as the 8th pick).

Not always true, a lot of times it seems like who ever is the hot topic on a board like RealGm they'll take that player and put him with that team. For a long time Cole was sitting in our laps even when were at 3.

When we were at 3 everyone but the 1st 2 guys would be sitting in our laps. Cole Anthony has not been in anyone's top 3 picks recently unless you're talking about before he left HS. Coming out of HS, Cole Anthony was arguably the top pick of his draft class and many considered him a likely top 3 pick. Then North Carolina happened. Injuries as well as underwhelming and inefficient play that exposed potential big holes in his game happened. And Anthony dropped as a result. Kinda like the same thing that happened with Dennis Smith Jr. Coming out of HS DSJr was considered as one of if not the top player in his HS class. He was pegged as a likely top 3 lottery pick. Then injuries and inefficient play that exposed potential holes in his game happened and he dropped as well.

[HEZI]

Their most talented player is Julius Randle who 90% of this board is wiling trade for a bottle of warm stale beer. So, yeah, they are among the least talented teams in the NBA. The rest of that stuff is also true and a big contributing part of that is their lack of talent.

The most talented player is a 27% three point shooting undersized big? So lets add another undersized big with even less offensive skill, that will really fix our weakness.

Talent is not just offense, you do realize that right? If talent was just offense Bill Russell wouldn't be considered for the Mount Rushmore of NBA basketball. Dikembe Mutombo wouldn't be talked about as one of the 100 greatest players ever. Rodman, Bobby Jones, etc...all those guys.

But ok, you must be a fan of Julius Randle if you think talent equates to just offense. And that's before considering inefficient offense that you're going to get out of Cole Anthony. Chucking balls at the basket isn't talent...again you see how I'm marginalizing someone skills like you are?

I'm sure if you tall Okongwu to just chuck that he'd be able to put up more points and therefore be "more offensive" as well. I mean let's see he shot 62% (while averaging 16.2 ppg) from the field to 38% for Cole Anthony (and 18.5ppg). I would think he can average 18.5 ppg if he shot more and still keep it above 50%. So who is the less talented offensive player here?

Nobody cares about dudes from the 90s era, the style of ball has changed, the pace of the game has changed. You keep referencing players from a completely different era like it's relevant to today.

Onyeka isn't averaging 16 PPG in the NBA especially with the guards we have. You can comfortably put that fantasy to bed.

Oh come on. Other than Barrett who hasn't exactly shown he's anything more than the next Thaddeus Young, the Knicks have a pretty much bunch of failed lottery picks. Randle, Payton, DSJ, Frank, Knox? Are you serious? That is a bottom of the barrel team. There is little real talent there.

Oh and Onyeka is some guaranteed pick? I remember this board trying to convince me Mo Bamba was the next unicorn
Please, I don't care where Onyeka is rated, Knicks don't need him right now. He's not solving our issues.

I'm sorry I didn't realize we were in any position to actually win games? Or are you saying the knicks are a Cole Anthony away from being anything more than they were? If so, you're insane.

I think just throwing "talent" together works? Did you read your last paragraph trying to argue that the players that are "thrown" together on the current team constitutes talent? Which side are you arguing here? I sad this team has NO talent, you bring up the current team as an argument refute my statement that this team has no talent. Then you insult the same team that you said has talent by saying that this team "thrown together" hasn't worked. HUH?

Read everything you wrote before carefully. Maybe then you're realize you're arguing yourself in circles.

And you think the Knicks are an Onyeka away from winning, so I'm not sure who is insane here. You are asking for some talent but have no idea where the Knicks main issues are coming from, it's the guards. Our guards suck and can't make a jumper. That doesn't mean getting one solves all the issues but it's an absolute requirement. A dude like Onyeka is not required especially when we already have Robinson and even Randle is still here as long as he's under contract. We're talking about our only lotto pick, not the 27th pick. If it was the 27th pick, sure go for a big or even trade up if you can but you absolutely do not draft Onyeka with your lotto pick if you are the Knicks. There are quality guard options, take one. It would be classic Knicks to take a big like Onyeka in this draft. Knicks suck at shooting, get that through your head, our guards are the WORST at shooting and scoring in the entire league. We don't need a defensive big with limited offensive skills especially with our lotto pick. It's the dumbest thing we could do.

[malik959]

Really? For months they had him going to the Knicks even when we were lower on the boards.

Okongu is one of 4 "Tier 1" players on their player ranking. The other 3 are Lamelo Ball, James Wiseman and Killian Hayes. Cole Anthony is in the middle of the pack in the group titled "The Rest". This is on player ranking exclusively of who they think a team would bite on and pick. Their big board hasn't changed in months.

IF we are basing the pick on BPA then Okongwu makes much more sense. IF we are basing this pick on positional need then it's a lot easier to argue that Cole Anthony may be the pick. Which is why both guys are tied in all likelihood.

They have got to be the worst top 4 ever. In any other draft those players would barely make top ten with all of their flaws but people are willing to pay them 20mil the next few years. I'd take Cole at ten over Melo at 1 any day.