Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[Ccwatercraft]

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

We havent even reached 200 years without slavery.

And the Egyptian slaves went and formed their own land - Canaan. In sharp contrast to the slaves of the past here...whose greatgrandchildren and grandchildren have to see the oppressors statue even when they go to a public park.

A park for which they also pay taxes to help maintain.

4000 years ago, also known as 1889.

got it.

Huh?

The conversation was about Slavery and Statues.

And how it relates to the Sphinx

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

[2018C3]

It still happens to this day. Some of you may not believe me, but about 20 years ago I worked with a guy who grew up in India. His parents purchased a boy, and they grew up together.

They both came to the USA together, My co-worker got a education, and the other guy did not. My co-worker worked with me at IBM, and his friend stayed home, cooked meals, did laundry and took care of home task functions. My co-worker and I became friends, and he was very open about there arrangement.

At the time I always thought it was weird, but thought it was more of a cultural thing. Looking back now, I see it differently.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

At the same period in time I worked with a guy from Pakistan, his parents set up a arranged marriage, and he was totally against it. He even tried to set me up on a date with future wife to get out of it, (He was very Americanized in his beliefs), and we would often go to bars together after work. I declined the date and several weeks later they were happily married, (I was never invited to the wedding, and thought that was weird as we were pretty decent friends, but think he was hiding his American life style from his parents, and understood). He later said it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

I worked with him for a few more years, and he remained very happy in his marriage, but never once went out to another bar with me, or even stopped by my home when invited. He always had a excuse, but we still took lunch together.

[musiqsoulchild]

4000 years ago, also known as 1889.

got it.

Huh?

The conversation was about Slavery and Statues.

And how it relates to the Sphinx

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

[musiqsoulchild]

It still happens to this day. Some of you may not believe me, but about 20 years ago I worked with a guy who grew up in India. His parents purchased a boy, and they grew up together.

They both came to the USA together, My co-worker got a education, and the other guy did not. My co-worker worked with me at IBM, and his friend stayed home, cooked meals, did laundry and took care of home task functions. My co-worker and I became friends, and he was very open about there arrangement.

At the time I always thought it was weird, but thought it was more of a cultural thing. Looking back now, I see it differently.

At the same period in time I worked with a guy from Pakistan, his parents set up a arranged marriage, and he was totally against it. He even tried to set me up on a date with future wife, I declined and a few weeks later they were happily married, and he said it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

Slavery is happening everywhere.

Even today.

How we are compensated for it and whether it is done willingly is the question.

I am from India. We have a massive problem with treating domestic workers/maids very poorly.

That has changed in the last 10-15 years. In a country that has been independent for about 70 years.

The whole line of argument that "It happens there, so it is kind of OK if it happens here" is bogus.

Dont let that even sit in your brain. You're too smart for that.

[2018C3]

It still happens to this day. Some of you may not believe me, but about 20 years ago I worked with a guy who grew up in India. His parents purchased a boy, and they grew up together.

They both came to the USA together, My co-worker got a education, and the other guy did not. My co-worker worked with me at IBM, and his friend stayed home, cooked meals, did laundry and took care of home task functions. My co-worker and I became friends, and he was very open about there arrangement.

At the time I always thought it was weird, but thought it was more of a cultural thing. Looking back now, I see it differently.

At the same period in time I worked with a guy from Pakistan, his parents set up a arranged marriage, and he was totally against it. He even tried to set me up on a date with future wife, I declined and a few weeks later they were happily married, and he said it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

Slavery is happening everywhere.

Even today.

How we are compensated for it and whether it is done willingly is the question.

I am from India. We have a massive problem with treating domestic workers/maids very poorly.

That has changed in the last 10-15 years. In a country that has been independent for about 70 years.

The whole line of argument that "It happens there, so it is kind of OK if it happens here" is bogus.

Dont let that even sit in your brain. You're too smart for that.

I never said it was right, but at that time in life I did not want to step on on another cultures toes, because I did not know all the details, just what was shared with me.

The situation with my co-worker always felt weird to me, but I was just in my early 20's and did not yet know where my cultural boundaries were, and if it was even "OK" to openly criticize his family structure.

I lost touch with guy almost 20 years ago, and have no idea where this situation went.

[musiqsoulchild]

It still happens to this day. Some of you may not believe me, but about 20 years ago I worked with a guy who grew up in India. His parents purchased a boy, and they grew up together.

They both came to the USA together, My co-worker got a education, and the other guy did not. My co-worker worked with me at IBM, and his friend stayed home, cooked meals, did laundry and took care of home task functions. My co-worker and I became friends, and he was very open about there arrangement.

At the time I always thought it was weird, but thought it was more of a cultural thing. Looking back now, I see it differently.

At the same period in time I worked with a guy from Pakistan, his parents set up a arranged marriage, and he was totally against it. He even tried to set me up on a date with future wife, I declined and a few weeks later they were happily married, and he said it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

Slavery is happening everywhere.

Even today.

How we are compensated for it and whether it is done willingly is the question.

I am from India. We have a massive problem with treating domestic workers/maids very poorly.

That has changed in the last 10-15 years. In a country that has been independent for about 70 years.

The whole line of argument that "It happens there, so it is kind of OK if it happens here" is bogus.

Dont let that even sit in your brain. You're too smart for that.

I never said it was right, but at that time in life I did not want to step on on another cultures toes, because I did not know all the details, just what was shared with me.

The situation with my co-worker always felt weird to me, but I was just in my early 20's and did not yet know where my cultural boundaries were, and if it was even "OK" to openly criticize his family structure.

If it feels wrong to you just dont participate in it.

If they try to foist it on you, express your rejection of their belief systems.

Whatever you do, please dont walk away from it anymore.

The silent majority is now a minority because we have chosen to be silent. I think it's time people heard what the Centrists have to say.

I reject Trumpism in all its forms.

[2018C3]

What this country needs right now is a strong president, a rock.

Literally the Rock:

https://www.newsweek.com/dwayne-rock-johnson-president-bookmakers-trump-biden-1508957

Going forward I do not want to see any career politicians voted in, just people who are interested in making this country better. Once you are in politics too long, you ultimately get corrupted by wealthy corporate agendas through donations, and this system that is now in place fails almost everyone's best interests.

[Ccwatercraft]

What this country needs right now is a strong president, a rock.

Literally the Rock:

https://www.newsweek.com/dwayne-rock-johnson-president-bookmakers-trump-biden-1508957

Going forward I do not want to see any career politicians voted in, just people who are interested in making this country better. Once you are in politics too long, you ultimately get corrupted by wealthy corporate agendas through donations, and this system that is now in place fails almost everyone's best interests.

I'd back Johnson, he cant be worse than our two awful options, he'd be a fool to want the job.

The voters are our own worst enemy, we keep voting in our career politicians in every election cycle.

[dice]

MS voter support for retaining confederate flag drops from 54% in january to 41% this month, strong majority of lawmakers vote yesterday to have it removed

[dice]

What this country needs right now is a strong president, a rock.

Literally the Rock:

https://www.newsweek.com/dwayne-rock-johnson-president-bookmakers-trump-biden-1508957

Going forward I do not want to see any career politicians voted in, just people who are interested in making this country better. Once you are in politics too long, you ultimately get corrupted by wealthy corporate agendas through donations, and this system that is now in place fails almost everyone's best interests.

I'd back Johnson, he cant be worse than our two awful options, he'd be a fool to want the job.

The voters are our own worst enemy, we keep voting in our career politicians in every election cycle.

i didn't know that donald trump was a career politician. well, we learn something new every day

what this country needs right now is competence

[dice]

Huh?

The conversation was about Slavery and Statues.

And how it relates to the Sphinx

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

many of these confederate war "hero" statues were not put up until a century after the war...during the nation's civil rights battle...as a thumb in the eye of those on the right side of history

[jc23]

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

many of these confederate war "hero" statues were not put up until a century after the war...during the nation's civil rights battle...as a thumb in the eye of those on the right side of history

heard about that on the JRE. Im not a fan of cancel culture but this is an obvious move. Teams dont hang second place banners if they lose in the finals. To the victor go the statues.

Yeah, Rock is too smart to run and we dont deserve him. I feel there are better options then Dwayne but they dont have the name that one would need to run and win as a 3rd party candidate. Not sure if you can put your name in this late btw, seems like you wouldnt be able to.

[Ccwatercraft]

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

many of these confederate war "hero" statues were not put up until a century after the war...during the nation's civil rights battle...as a thumb in the eye of those on the right side of history

heard about that on the JRE. Im not a fan of cancel culture but this is an obvious move. Teams dont hang second place banners if they lose in the finals. To the victor go the statues.

Yeah, Rock is too smart to run and we dont deserve him. I feel there are better options then Dwayne but they dont have the name that one would need to run and win as a 3rd party candidate. Not sure if you can put your name in this late btw, seems like you wouldnt be able to.

Another fan of JRE, I'm a regular.

Agree that The Rock would be completely Flying Blind, but I'd support him because hed still be better than our current options. Right now neither deserve my vote.

During a couple of his recent podcasts there were other names that were dropped and nobody specifically said that it was too late, seems like a good point to bring up it it was.

I liked the admiral McCraven/yang co-leader idea that another guest (weinstein?) brought up... Although I'd substitute yang for more of a center left candidate. I read his book and did his shapiro interview but had serious doubts about his ideas.

[Alcatraz17]

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

We havent even reached 200 years without slavery.

And the Egyptian slaves went and formed their own land - Canaan. In sharp contrast to the slaves of the past here...whose greatgrandchildren and grandchildren have to see the oppressors statue even when they go to a public park.

A park for which they also pay taxes to help maintain.

4000 years ago, also known as 1889.

got it.

Huh?

The conversation was about Slavery and Statues.

And how it relates to the Sphinx

Slavery was abolished in Egypt in 1877. Abolished in U.S in 1863.

Kinda scary that you said 4,000 years ago.

[Alcatraz17]

Huh?

The conversation was about Slavery and Statues.

And how it relates to the Sphinx

Imagine that...slavery was resolved almost 4000 years ago in Egypt.

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

Your logic is loose.

The vast majority of people are ok with statues of confederates being moved - not ripped down by tantrums. Most of the ones who don't have a slight point - culture in the south has a history they identify as their own - and some of the military names were coveted for things besides slavery. But whatever, not worth debating.

The issue is the slippery slope....it was just supposed to be about confederate figures....then it became about presidents who owned slaves....then its personal opinion how how statues makes someone feel. Its quite a ridiculous process in logic.

You talk about power of symbols. You have to remember that a lot of what people feel is taught. You have people participating in tearing down statues of figures that they know absolutely nothing about except what their liberal professor has told them...why? Well...when you're taught 1. American history is not genuine 2. America is historically racist....its very easy to convince someone that 3. George Washington was a slave owner, therefore......the enemy! The absence of history context being taught and considered is irresponsible.

100 years from now people will judge what the best of us today are doing. Does that give them the right to judge us without context and same as the present? Thats fools logic.
History context matters.

[Alcatraz17]

Slavery is happening everywhere.

Even today.

How we are compensated for it and whether it is done willingly is the question.

I am from India. We have a massive problem with treating domestic workers/maids very poorly.

That has changed in the last 10-15 years. In a country that has been independent for about 70 years.

The whole line of argument that "It happens there, so it is kind of OK if it happens here" is bogus.

Dont let that even sit in your brain. You're too smart for that.

I never said it was right, but at that time in life I did not want to step on on another cultures toes, because I did not know all the details, just what was shared with me.

The situation with my co-worker always felt weird to me, but I was just in my early 20's and did not yet know where my cultural boundaries were, and if it was even "OK" to openly criticize his family structure.

If it feels wrong to you just dont participate in it.

If they try to foist it on you, express your rejection of their belief systems.

Whatever you do, please dont walk away from it anymore.

The silent majority is now a minority because we have chosen to be silent. I think it's time people heard what the Centrists have to say.

I reject Trumpism in all its forms.

Trumpism? What? Be better than that.

Im with you on the centrists movement - but - that's partly because politicians know the game - which is dictated by media. The energy of the party heavily ways on why your candidate opposes the other party (enemy). The only way a true moderate could come in and make change would be if they already had a massive following and didn't need the back of the media. The problem is, that candidate would have two sides going after them.

We are stuck in a binary war cycle.

[musiqsoulchild]

I never said it was right, but at that time in life I did not want to step on on another cultures toes, because I did not know all the details, just what was shared with me.

The situation with my co-worker always felt weird to me, but I was just in my early 20's and did not yet know where my cultural boundaries were, and if it was even "OK" to openly criticize his family structure.

If it feels wrong to you just dont participate in it.

If they try to foist it on you, express your rejection of their belief systems.

Whatever you do, please dont walk away from it anymore.

The silent majority is now a minority because we have chosen to be silent. I think it's time people heard what the Centrists have to say.

I reject Trumpism in all its forms.

Trumpism? What? Be better than that.

Im with you on the centrists movement - but - that's partly because politicians know the game - which is dictated by media. The energy of the party heavily ways on why your candidate opposes the other party (enemy). The only way a true moderate could come in and make change would be if they already had a massive following and didn't need the back of the media. The problem is, that candidate would have two sides going after them.

We are stuck in a binary war cycle.

Trumpism.

You know...George Wallace, Richard Nixon...Trumpism.

It's a thing. And its not color blind.

[musiqsoulchild]

Not resolved 2000 bc.

Not to be a hair splitter but the point remains that the slavery issue has been amongst us even to this day. The late 1800s, early 19's was the new era for the vast majority around the globe.

If you want to talk about slavery, that's a completely different topic.

If you want to talk about why statues are being seen as symbols of slavery...that is the debate I am having at present.

There should be no doubt in peoples minds on why statues are being toppled. It is an evisceration of any symbolism that evokes slavery.

It's no different than reading curriculums in USA that have been neatly whitewashed.
Heck we even celebrate Thanksgiving.

As if that's how excellent the historical relationships were between the original tribes and the colonists.

Symbols are powerful. Communism failed in Europe much before the Berlin Wall fell. Still, there was a need to bring that wall down.

That's how powerful symbols are.

Your logic is loose.

The vast majority of people are ok with statues of confederates being moved - not ripped down by tantrums. Most of the ones who don't have a slight point - culture in the south has a history they identify as their own - and some of the military names were coveted for things besides slavery. But whatever, not worth debating.

The issue is the slippery slope....it was just supposed to be about confederate figures....then it became about presidents who owned slaves....then its personal opinion how how statues makes someone feel. Its quite a ridiculous process in logic.

You talk about power of symbols. You have to remember that a lot of what people feel is taught. You have people participating in tearing down statues of figures that they know absolutely nothing about except what their liberal professor has told them...why? Well...when you're taught 1. American history is not genuine 2. America is historically racist....its very easy to convince someone that 3. George Washington was a slave owner, therefore......the enemy! The absence of history context being taught and considered is irresponsible.

100 years from now people will judge what the best of us today are doing. Does that give them the right to judge us without context and same as the present? Thats fools logic.
History context matters.

Anytime you say "Historical context matters", as an objective analyst you have to ask:

1) Define history - the time period and the geographical area

2) What are the comparables?

3) Why did you choose the above two attributes the way you chose them?

Let's hear it.

What's your historical context for slavery? Compared to what? And why did you choose those particular attributes only?

[dice]

I never said it was right, but at that time in life I did not want to step on on another cultures toes, because I did not know all the details, just what was shared with me.

The situation with my co-worker always felt weird to me, but I was just in my early 20's and did not yet know where my cultural boundaries were, and if it was even "OK" to openly criticize his family structure.

If it feels wrong to you just dont participate in it.

If they try to foist it on you, express your rejection of their belief systems.

Whatever you do, please dont walk away from it anymore.

The silent majority is now a minority because we have chosen to be silent. I think it's time people heard what the Centrists have to say.

I reject Trumpism in all its forms.

Trumpism? What? Be better than that.

Im with you on the centrists movement - but - that's partly because politicians know the game - which is dictated by media. The energy of the party heavily ways on why your candidate opposes the other party (enemy). The only way a true moderate could come in and make change would be if they already had a massive following and didn't need the back of the media. The problem is, that candidate would have two sides going after them.

We are stuck in a binary war cycle.

the media plays into the polarity of the two parties to modest degree, but it has absolutely nothing to do with why we only have 2 major parties. we've had only 2 major parties for the entirety of the nation's history. winner-take-all elections pretty much ensure it (duverger's law). and there is very little interest in a centrist 3rd party anyway. it has about as much magnetic appeal as rooting for the refs in a basketball game

[musiqsoulchild]

If it feels wrong to you just dont participate in it.

If they try to foist it on you, express your rejection of their belief systems.

Whatever you do, please dont walk away from it anymore.

The silent majority is now a minority because we have chosen to be silent. I think it's time people heard what the Centrists have to say.

I reject Trumpism in all its forms.

Trumpism? What? Be better than that.

Im with you on the centrists movement - but - that's partly because politicians know the game - which is dictated by media. The energy of the party heavily ways on why your candidate opposes the other party (enemy). The only way a true moderate could come in and make change would be if they already had a massive following and didn't need the back of the media. The problem is, that candidate would have two sides going after them.

We are stuck in a binary war cycle.

the media plays into the polarity of the two parties to modest degree, but it has absolutely nothing to do with why we only have 2 major parties. we've had only 2 major parties for the entirety of the nation's history. winner-take-all elections pretty much ensure it (duverger's law). and there is very little interest in a centrist 3rd party anyway. it has about as much magnetic appeal as rooting for the refs in a basketball game

The whole " The system is broken" is a diversionary tactic.

Think about it...this is why we had WW2.

Democratic Socialism vs. Nationalistic Fascism

In the end, Capitalism ( US) versus Communism (USSR) remained. And the Cold War lasted for 40 years.

The world has always been full of binary choices. To somehow pretend like that's the end of all hope as we know it is silly.

Anyone who is thinking of voting Bernie or sitting out the election because Biden this...Biden that..is just sitting on a throne of privilege.

You have a choice that minorities in this country dont have in 2020. They have no choice but to vote anti-Trump.

Even today, he called Black Lives Matter a symbol of hatred. This is the America that we live in today. And there are people who feel that they can NOT utilize their power to vote this evil man out.