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2020 Draft Thread

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Scoots1994
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1581 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:39 am

wco81 wrote:KAT stuffs the box score but he can't win by himself.

Still he has to be a top 15 or 20 player?

There was a thread on the GB about how Ayton has improved on switches on a perimeter player, how he's able to move his feet and make guards and forwards earn their points against him.


KAT's offense gets him there, his defense is far worse than expected coming out. I'm not sure there is a scheme where he's the best player on the team that wins them much.

2-3 centers taken in the top 3 in 15 years who are marginally worth the pick is the point. The position has lost significant value because of the way the game is played.

If they take Wiseman, fine, but there are far more questions about him than there were about Ayton and KAT and he has more potential to be a bust than either of them. There is a reason to be cautious and a reason so many talk about trading down being the best move if possible.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1582 » by vagelis » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:42 am

KAT has not quick feet in short distance and he has bad lateral quickness, mediocre 2 feet vertical, mediocre lower body strength.
So, it is expected that he is not a good defender.
Wiseman seems that he has a very good vertical and quick feet so I think that he definitely will be a good defender, at least a lot better than KAT.
I think that Wiseman is also slight better athlete than Ayton. But Ayton is more skilled as a player in offense and maybe stronger right now

Edit:
I just found this video from his training. He seems to work his outside game and he seems that he moves like a big sf in this video.
He seems that his athleticism gives him upside to work his skills and become something more than a classic center in offense
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1583 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:41 pm

vagelis wrote:KAT has not quick feet in short distance and he has bad lateral quickness, mediocre 2 feet vertical, mediocre lower body strength.
So, it is expected that he is not a good defender.
Wiseman seems that he has a very good vertical and quick feet so I think that he definitely will be a good defender, at least a lot better than KAT.
I think that Wiseman is also slight better athlete than Ayton. But Ayton is more skilled as a player in offense and maybe stronger right now

Edit:
I just found this video from his training. He seems to work his outside game and he seems that he moves like a big sf in this video.
He seems that his athleticism gives him upside to work his skills and become something more than a classic center in offense


What is unexpected about KAT's defense is that he doesn't appear to understand defensive schemes and is lacking consistent effort. Great quickness and lower body strength are good for defense, but the mental game can cover up a lot of physical limitations there.

Wiseman's issues are likewise mostly mental. There were concerns about his bulk, and his willingness to play physical in college, and all of that steps way up in the NBA where even guards are more physical than college centers. Wiseman made a stupid mistake, got punished for it, and quit on his team. He has huge potential, but likewise he has huge questions.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1584 » by B-King » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:30 am

Scoots1994 wrote:Wiseman's issues are likewise mostly mental. There were concerns about his bulk, and his willingness to play physical in college, and all of that steps way up in the NBA where even guards are more physical than college centers. Wiseman made a stupid mistake, got punished for it, and quit on his team. He has huge potential, but likewise he has huge questions.


Wiseman is just a kid and he is pretty sound fundamentally with his inside game. His frame reminds me of Dwight Howard and I think it's up to him and his work ethic to add muscle. I would argue that Wiseman got caught and that this is more systematic of the dynamics of college hoops. Zion is fighting to keep his image clean and the dollar amount discussed is around $400k. Many of these talented players are all one and done regardless.

In watching that video his form looks pretty good. That slight fade away is going to be untouchable. Let's hope he doesn't forget that he is 7'1" with a 7'6" wingspan. Nothing more painful watching big men the size of a 5 try to play like a 2/3.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1585 » by ShayDee » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:21 am

Literally all Wiseman needs to do here is stay in front of his man with his hands up, defend in space, time blocks properly, be an elite roll man, finish whatever they pass to him within 3ft of the rim, be a 70% + FT shooter, catch lobs, get as many rebounds as he can and pass out of double teams (specifically to Steph/KLay). All the other things he brings to the team are extra and if he does develop those other things he is a top 8 C in the league.

Like I can't see why he won't be able to become the best version of himself in GS. He would be playing at the highest level of Bball, and he would have the likes of Steph, Dray, Looney, Kerr, Ron Adams? to teach him everything that he can't get anywhere else. If the warriors can turn Javale into an above average C in this league they would do wonders to a young C that's under team control, unless he has the mindset of DJ which I hope not.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1586 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:33 am

vagelis wrote:KAT has not quick feet in short distance and he has bad lateral quickness, mediocre 2 feet vertical, mediocre lower body strength.
So, it is expected that he is not a good defender.
Wiseman seems that he has a very good vertical and quick feet so I think that he definitely will be a good defender, at least a lot better than KAT.
I think that Wiseman is also slight better athlete than Ayton. But Ayton is more skilled as a player in offense and maybe stronger right now

Edit:
I just found this video from his training. He seems to work his outside game and he seems that he moves like a big sf in this video.
He seems that his athleticism gives him upside to work his skills and become something more than a classic center in offense


Nice form on the jump shot....dang...are we SURE this is a weak draft.

Ball could be an all-star....Wiseman has that potential...Obi could be a stud...I think this draft is underrated and four years from now it might be considered very strong.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1587 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:56 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Nice form on the jump shot....dang...are we SURE this is a weak draft.

Ball could be an all-star....Wiseman has that potential...Obi could be a stud...I think this draft is underrated and four years from now it might be considered very strong.


Every draft is stronger than was speculated before the draft and every draft is weaker than speculated before the draft.

Right now the issue isn't how good it might be, but how incredibly bad it could turn out. Wiseman could be a soft headed soft playing bust who stat hunts for a contract. Obi could be a hollow scorer. Ball may never get his shot together and may never commit to playing defense. Avdija may never be fast or physical enough to stay on the floor. Okoro's shot may never develop. Okongwu may never develop his offense. And on down the line. They COULD be stars, or they could be busts.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1588 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:28 am

If the Warriors pass on Wiseman, they will regret it big time.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1589 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:46 am

Suck on this Bishes!!!


Khoee wrote “
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2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1590 » by vetmin » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:52 am

Mylie10 wrote:Suck on this Bishes!!!



It has 2 views, me and you!

Edit: he looks good


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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1591 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:20 am

“Anotha One”


Khoee wrote “
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1592 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:11 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Suck on this Bishes!!!




Check out the tough physical D he's fighting through!
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1593 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:56 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:Suck on this Bishes!!!




Check out the tough physical D he's fighting through!


I know you’re joking but the point of a video like this is to see where his body is at right now. It’s a snap shot of his size and conditioning. Also gives a glimpse into his mobility and athleticism.

If I was touting his post skills based on this, then you could all laugh at me.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1594 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:28 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:Suck on this Bishes!!!




Check out the tough physical D he's fighting through!


I know you’re joking but the point of a video like this is to see where his body is at right now. It’s a snap shot of his size and conditioning. Also gives a glimpse into his mobility and athleticism.

If I was touting his post skills based on this, then you could all laugh at me.


You can't really evaluate much of anything against air. He looks lean, and he's working on his game, those are good, but that's about it.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1595 » by Mylie10 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:41 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
Check out the tough physical D he's fighting through!


I know you’re joking but the point of a video like this is to see where his body is at right now. It’s a snap shot of his size and conditioning. Also gives a glimpse into his mobility and athleticism.

If I was touting his post skills based on this, then you could all laugh at me.


You can't really evaluate much of anything against air. He looks lean, and he's working on his game, those are good, but that's about it.


Ok Scoot lol
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1596 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:15 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:
I know you’re joking but the point of a video like this is to see where his body is at right now. It’s a snap shot of his size and conditioning. Also gives a glimpse into his mobility and athleticism.

If I was touting his post skills based on this, then you could all laugh at me.


You can't really evaluate much of anything against air. He looks lean, and he's working on his game, those are good, but that's about it.


Ok Scoot lol


What can you tell? You can't really see if he's fast, the parade of dunks are not special, there is a little bit of ball handling and a little shooting, but again, against air those don't mean much ... even Shaq shot 80% on FTs in an empty gym.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1597 » by superunknown » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:38 pm

I don't understand why the comparison with a young admiral or AD that I've read more than once on different draft board.
When I see a video like that one above, I see a potential new chris bosh (just a bit more C than PF due to the height and size), which would be more than enough to me to draft wiseman in a click if got the chance.
a lineup with curry-thompson-wiggings-green-bosh would've been a title contender without any discussion. just throw-in a big body to play minutes as a C in the RS and possibly a decent player from the bench that can run the offence when steph is resting via FA, and you're good to go for another title(s) run.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1598 » by wco81 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:30 pm

Bosh would be nice but remember that when he joined the Heat, his role evolved into more of a stretch 4, as he became pretty effective at spacing out for 3s.

He obviously was more of the first scoring option at Toronto, where he played more minutes than in Miami, had more shots, scored more.

Also higher rebounding and block averages.

Did he match up more against 3s at Miami or rove further away from the basket, which would account for his reduced rebounds and blocks?

Still Bosh shot with high efficiency despite attempting more 3s.

Would be good to have seen what kind of shooting efficiency Wiseman has had, especially from the FT line, which sometimes predicts how well players adapt to the NBA 3-point shot.

I don't think anyone expects Wiseman to crossover big men and men some smaller wing players like KD can. Would be a huge bonus if he develops that at the NBA level but on the Warriors, we probably don't need that unless he can do it at a very high level.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1599 » by superunknown » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:14 pm

I wouldn't necessarily expect wiseman to be a threat from the 3point line. At least not in his first years in the league. If he develops a decent 3 point game even better, it's an added bonus. But just being a threat with the mid-range game ala bosh (like it seems he can be) would be already enough.
a curry/bosh pick&roll would've been deadly. also a bosh spotting-up for a knock-down mid-range jumpshot to punish every double-team thrown at the number30. his mid-range game would've been key even in terms of spacing.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread 

Post#1600 » by Coxy » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:58 pm

B-King wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:Wiseman's issues are likewise mostly mental. There were concerns about his bulk, and his willingness to play physical in college, and all of that steps way up in the NBA where even guards are more physical than college centers. Wiseman made a stupid mistake, got punished for it, and quit on his team. He has huge potential, but likewise he has huge questions.


Wiseman is just a kid and he is pretty sound fundamentally with his inside game. His frame reminds me of Dwight Howard and I think it's up to him and his work ethic to add muscle. I would argue that Wiseman got caught and that this is more systematic of the dynamics of college hoops. Zion is fighting to keep his image clean and the dollar amount discussed is around $400k. Many of these talented players are all one and done regardless.

In watching that video his form looks pretty good. That slight fade away is going to be untouchable. Let's hope he doesn't forget that he is 7'1" with a 7'6" wingspan. Nothing more painful watching big men the size of a 5 try to play like a 2/3.


I see more Bosh than Dwight in Wiseman.

The best comparison for an absolute peak for Wiseman is David Robinson in terms of skill and style.
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