The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

76ciology · Post #561 » by **76ciology** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am

I was watching clips of Ben.

One thing I noticed is his ability to get anywhere, size and the nature of how he is being defended, he can be like a legal moving screen with the ball that makes him an elite screener for shooters. Think how Draymond Green sets screen but even more with the ball.

Most lethal action is when a center like Biid or Al is at the top of the key and both he and his man are sagged off, he can bring down the ball and do his handoff. Which works like almost all the time. But if you look at the numbers, we probably have 2 of the best shooting centers with Al and Biid.

If our guys can shoot better, his man has to stay close at him to challenge the shooter, this will open up his game.

Well, in theory.

mike76 · Post #562 » by **mike76** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 pm

76ciology wrote:I was watching clips of Ben.

One thing I noticed is his ability to get anywhere, size and the nature of how he is being defended, he can be like a legal moving screen with the ball that makes him an elite screener for shooters. Think how Draymond Green sets screen but even more with the ball.

Most lethal action is when a center like Biid or Al is at the top of the key and both he and his man are sagged off, he can bring down the ball and do his handoff. Which works like almost all the time. But if you look at the numbers, we probably have 2 of the best shooting centers with Al and Biid.

If our guys can shoot better, his man has to stay close at him to challenge the shooter, this will open up his game.

Well, in theory.

Both in theory and in practice.

DeAndre Jordan (non shooter) made a living with the Lob City Clippers as a devastating off ball screener for JJ Redick and an on ball screener for CP3. Allowed him to be a two-way asset in LA and earn a couple All-NBA awards along the way.

A lineup of CP3-JJ-LMAM (career non shooter barring one year in Houston) - Blake (bad shooter, didn't start taking 3s until after CP3 left) - DeAndre Jordan (non shooter) managed to have an offensive rating of 116 and a net rating of +14.4 in the 16-17 season

A Ben-Al-Joel frontcourt could really work on both offense and defense really well if you have a good pick n roll point guard and a guy who can shoot really well off of screens and you abandon the post up game.

But it does become clunky when Tobi becomes your SG and Josh becomes your PG and your plan A on offense is to post up Embiid with Al's man constantly sagging and recovering. Maybe Shake-Kork-Ben-Al-Joel could work together if Shake's offense as a lead ball handler is for real. But I don't know if Shake's offense is for real. A possible lineup that could help get Al some playoff minutes as a 4.

76ciology · Post #563 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:11 pm

Most frequent assist combos in the league

Ben to Tobias 9th overall 2.6 assists per 36.

https://fansided.com/2020/07/01/nylon-calculus-zion-williamson-lonzo-ball-assist/

76ciology · Post #564 » by **76ciology** » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:18 am

Let’s say we were able to get Kyrie for free.

Can Ben play not a primary ball handler. If so, can it work?

eyeatoma · Post #565 » by **eyeatoma** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:36 am

Read on Twitter

?s=19

He's hitting threes in practice. Hold me!!!!

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Post #566 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:42 am

3 is great but that video also actually does a great job of showing ways Ben can be effective on offense without playing point.

76ciology · Post #567 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:46 am

Ahh.. Ben. The greatest hype machine of our generation.

Hasn’t he announced he gained a few inches of height and lbs of muscle yet?

*not shooting him down just temper your expectations

76ciology · Post #568 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:48 am

With Ben, dont focus at the shot. Focus at how he was guarded. If he’s being left wide open, that means it’s an outlier occurrence and it’s actually more preferable that he missed that shot and is being guarded closely than him making the shot and being left wide open

kingerzz · Post #569 » by **kingerzz** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:52 am

76ciology wrote:With Ben, dont focus at the shot. Focus at how he was guarded. If he’s being left wide open, that means it’s an outlier occurrence and it’s actually more preferable that he missed that shot and is being guarded closely than him making the shot and being left wide open

Whilst I agree with that, at least he was off ball on the perimeter a couple of times in that clip. The second time he drove but the lane was open, I can live with that. Anyone else think no crowds might actually make him more comfortable shooting it?

51X3RF4N · Post #570 » by **51X3RF4N** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:09 pm

76ciology wrote:With Ben, dont focus at the shot. Focus at how he was guarded. If he’s being left wide open, that means it’s an outlier occurrence and it’s actually more preferable that he missed that shot and is being guarded closely than him making the shot and being left wide open

I disagree.

He is being left wide open because thats what other teams do all the time. The move to PF means he will be guarded by bigger players who aren't as quick as Ben, and aren't as quick as the PGs and SFs that normally guard Ben.

I think this move is intended to give Ben the space and opportunity to comfortably take uncontested 3pt shots.

Think about it. He seems to like catch and shoot 3s better than straight up creating his own look. If you watch him in warmups before games, he will take 30 to 40 catch and shoot 3s, but not a single 3 that he just dribbles into and rises up.

What better way to get him his preferred look than to play him off ball and have a guard passing it to him?

Especially when he won't be guarded by quick players who can put pressure on him and recover when they see him start his shooting motion.

Putting him at the 4 with 2 guards on the floor means the opposing team will have a SF or PF on Ben, and the other on Tobias. One of them will have an advantage.

For Ben, its knowing that the PF guarding him will likely be sagging off, and will likely not be quick enough to recover and close out on defense when Ben rises up to shoot a 3. Its less pressure, literally.

This move to PF is the right thing. It also gives Ben more chances to grab a rebound himself and start the fast break. Rather than being out at the 3pt line when the other guard shoots, and having to go find the person who got the board and get the ball from them. He will already be in better position to get rebounds himself (more stats), but also he will be able to just turn on the jets right away.

Post #571 » by **BullyKing** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:07 pm

Having thought about this a little, if Simmons is ever (or at least anytime soon) going to be willing to shoot 3s with any regularity in actual games this is the time. We've seen him shoot them in warmups and practices for years. Given the lacks of fans, these games in the bubble are going to replicate a scrimmage as much as any real game ever will. If the potential for embarrassment in front a packed arena is what has prevented him from shooting open 3s, it will be interesting to see if this environment does anything about that.

Post #572 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:43 pm

It would be so funny and on brand if Simmons just bombed 5 threes a game in the bubble and then went back to not shooting again whenever fans returned.

eyeatoma · Post #573 » by **eyeatoma** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Sixerscan wrote:It would be so funny and on brand if Simmons just bombed 5 threes a game in the bubble and then went back to not shooting again whenever fans returned.

Would not be surprised.

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Negrodamus · Post #574 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:02 pm

I wonder if Tobias and Ben are going to keep the long hair for the rest of the bubble. It feels strange to see Tobias with anything other than a short cut.

51X3RF4N · Post #575 » by **51X3RF4N** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:08 pm

"Orlando...I'm coming for it."

If true, this seems like a big deal.

Sixersftw · Post #576 » by **Sixersftw** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:14 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I wonder if Tobias and Ben are going to keep the long hair for the rest of the bubble. It feels strange to see Tobias with anything other than a short cut.

I want dreads. Turn right into the J.Cole.

eyeatoma · Post #577 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:38 am

51X3RF4N wrote:"Orlando...I'm coming for it."

If true, this seems like a big deal.

Can you send the link for where he said that?

M2J · Post #578 » by **M2J** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:42 am

eyeatoma wrote:
51X3RF4N wrote:"Orlando...I'm coming for it."

If true, this seems like a big deal.

Can you send the link for where he said that?

Watch on YouTube

eyeatoma · Post #579 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:51 pm

You guys still think something hasn't clicked? I'm still skeptical, but I have more hope than before lol.

Read on Twitter

youngcrev · Post #580 » by **youngcrev** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:22 pm

eyeatoma wrote:You guys still think something hasn't clicked? I'm still skeptical, but I have more hope than before lol.

Read on Twitter

Less talk, more do. Hopefully there is something to it, but I'll set my expectations low and be presently surprised if it happens.