NBA Re-Open Thread

Post #1 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:04 pm

Other thread maxed out. We'll roll with this until the restart and then use the ATL thread for all non Bucks NBA news.

Let's tone down some of the rhetoric. Thx

StickeeFingaz · Post #2 » by **StickeeFingaz** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:01 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29488240/nba-going-shorter-games-exhibition-openers

From this article: "Exhibitions start with a four-game slate Wednesday and continue through July 28. Plans call for all 33 exhibitions to be televised by some combination of local TV, national TV, NBA TV or NBA League Pass."

DingleJerry · Post #3 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:11 pm

I've been barely watching any espn, since there's no sports. But did have it on in the background yesterday, surprising amount of talking heads taking LBJ for MVP. It's almost like everyone has forgotten the season. I grant LBJ could've closed that gap with Giannis hurt and possibly won it, but with the season ending when it did it should be a no contest runaway for Giannis. Essentially most of the arguments just came down to LBJ is the best player, yea I agree, but if that's all it's based on he'd have 15 MVPs now.

jschligs · Post #4 » by **jschligs** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:15 pm

DingleJerry wrote:I've been barely watching any espn, since there's no sports. But did have it on in the background yesterday, surprising amount of talking heads taking LBJ for MVP. It's almost like everyone has forgotten the season. I grant LBJ could've closed that gap with Giannis hurt and possibly won it, but with the season ending when it did it should be a no contest runaway for Giannis. Essentially most of the arguments just came down to LBJ is the best player, yea I agree, but if that's all it's based on he'd have 15 MVPs now.

Anyone who truly watches the NBA should know it's Giannis. The talking heads are there strictly to get people talking. Lowe said it best himself on The Jump, it's not even close statistically, Giannis is the clear winner. Those voting for LBJ are voting on emotion and use the "valuable" part to justify why he should get it. If you look at the numbers in any way besides APG, it's Giannis. Not to mention we're also #1 record in the NBA.

Post #5 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:18 pm

Media is all over LBJ. No way he should be MVP but I won't be surprised if he is.

awd4cy · Post #6 » by **awd4cy** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:25 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=21

At least some sense from someone on ESPN.

coolhandluke121 · Post #7 » by **coolhandluke121** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:42 pm

I agree that the Bucks would be better without Giannis than the Lakers would be without Lebron. However, the Bucks are also better with Giannis than the Lakers are with Lebron.

Lebron has had an incredible season though. Better than probably about half of the MVPs of this century. I would probably choose him over Giannis if it was just a 7-game series, but it's a regular season award and always has been.

MVP2110 · Post #8 » by **MVP2110** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:50 pm

StickeeFingaz wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29488240/nba-going-shorter-games-exhibition-openers

From this article: "Exhibitions start with a four-game slate Wednesday and continue through July 28. Plans call for all 33 exhibitions to be televised by some combination of local TV, national TV, NBA TV or NBA League Pass."

As far as scrimmages go, the Bucks hinted yesterday they will be watchable in some form

Read on Twitter

?s=19

ACGB · Post #9 » by **ACGB** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:15 pm

Giannis is going to win MVP and DPOY because the award voters don't have a producer in their ear telling them they need to create content.

Ron Swanson · Post #10 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:18 pm

Not buying the "any other year Lebron would win it" narrative either. Out of the last 10 MVP winners he'd be:

9th in PER
9th in WS/48
9th in BPM
8th in scoring
8th in TS%
6th in total on/off
4th in RPM

It's pretty much the most media-fueled/manufactured MVP "race" that I can recall. LeBron has basically had zero case for being the best regular season player since 2014. Like, it's not even a debate.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #11 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:31 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:I agree that the Bucks would be better without Giannis than the Lakers would be without Lebron. However, the Bucks are also better with Giannis than the Lakers are with Lebron.

Lebron has had an incredible season though. Better than probably about half of the MVPs of this century. I would probably choose him over Giannis if it was just a 7-game series, but it's a regular season award and always has been.

Really? Maybe I put too much weight on star power but:

AD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lopez
Howard/McGee ? Ersan
Kuzma<<<<<<<<<Midds
Green>>>> Wes
Bradley/Rondo<<<Bledsoe

Yeah we got a 'deeper' bench that play well together, but I think that is a symptom of the chemistry with Giannis. Half of our guys were vet min pickups the past two years: Lopez, Hill, Wes, Korver, Thansis, Patty C, Williams and Lopez/Hill being at the end of their career.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #12 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:52 pm

Scrimmages will be televised

Bucks play Spurs on Thursday at 2pm

Giannis is expected to play that one, sit the next two

Read on Twitter

theFireBlanket · Post #13 » by **theFireBlanket** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:04 pm

If LeBron wins, that's a f#€×|π joke. Kendrick Perkins cashing that Klutch check. Pompous.

Ron Swanson · Post #14 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:04 pm

I see Frank Vogel gets zero credit for what he's done to transform that team defensively, and Lebron is basically their 3rd-4th best defender. It's like people forgot that he coached that over-achieving Pacers team to the Conference Finals in 2012 and took peak Lebron's Big-3 Heat to 7 games. Dude is arguably one of the best defensive coaches of the last two decades.

RRyder823 · Post #15 » by **RRyder823** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:09 pm

awd4cy wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=21

At least some sense from someone on ESPN.

The ones picking Lebron for MVP because Giannis has more talent around him are going to be the same ones that will pick Boston, Philly, Toronto or Miami to make the Finals to play against the Lakers because Giannis doesn't have enough talent around him

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

coolhandluke121 · Post #16 » by **coolhandluke121** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:11 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:I agree that the Bucks would be better without Giannis than the Lakers would be without Lebron.

Really? Maybe I put too much weight on star power but:

AD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lopez
Howard/McGee ? Ersan
Kuzma<<<<<<<<<Midds
Green>>>> Wes
Bradley/Rondo<<<Bledsoe

Yeah we got a 'deeper' bench that play well together, but I think that is a symptom of the chemistry with Giannis. Half of our guys were vet min pickups the past two years: Lopez, Hill, Wes, Korver, Thansis, Patty C, Williams and Lopez/Hill being at the end of their career.

Yes, really. The last time I saw Lebron's on/off stats removed any shadow of a doubt for me (can't remember them off the top of my head though). Without Lebron, the Lakers are basically the Pelicans sans Jrue. Also, the Bucks aren't even playing Giannis full starter minutes, let alone anyone else. That's a point that keeps getting lost by pundits and commenters everywhere. They keep downplaying the regular season record, but it's not like the Bucks are chasing a gaudy record and differential; they're basically doing it on cruise control.

I do think you put too much weight on star power, but I think you're also forgetting how good some of these guys are when they're not sacrificing minutes and numbers for the team.

I don't disagree with parts of your analysis in a vacuum, but I think it's the wrong way to look at it. I would take any of Hill, DDV, Bledsoe, or Brooke over whoever is considered the 3rd-best player on the Lakers in a heartbeat. Anthony Davis is not carrying that team anywhere. He doesn't bring things together the way Lebron does.

Also, Hill is most certainly not a vet min pick-up and is not even that old. He's been great this year. Deserves 6OTY but they won't factor defense in that award. Brooke Lopez was a BAE player (not vet min technically) but clearly a lot of teams whiffed on that one. Citing his salary two years ago isn't evidence of his value. Marvin is a buyout ring-chaser, which is not at all the same process as a vet min guy in terms of player caliber.

Holistically:
Twins
Marvin/Ersan
Khris/Wes
Wes/DDV/Hill
Bledsoe/Hill
Is a pretty good team. Not arguing against Giannis for MVP or saying Lebron does more for his team though. Just saying we don't need a narrative that says their supporting casts are equal to have Giannis ahead.

Badgerlander · Post #17 » by **Badgerlander** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:12 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Damn was looking forward to watching the Griz

Bucksfan28 · Post #18 » by **Bucksfan28** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:23 pm

LeBron definitely has a case, but Giannis should win. Both of these things can be true.

Chuck Diesel · Post #19 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:24 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=21

This sucks for Winslow, who didn’t want to be there in the first place. Hope he gets healthy at some point.

DingleJerry · Post #20 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:32 pm

Lebron had a chance to narrow the gap and win when there was 20% of the season left, Giannis was hurt, and Lakers had just gotten to within 1-2 games of best record. Since you have to vote now it shouldn't be close.

That said, LBJs year has been great totally MVP worthy. Upper 20s in ppg while leading the league in assists, and all the advanced stuff checks the boxes for him too, while on a 60 win team. In many years his team would have the best record and he'd be a shoe-in, because that best record is hugely important over the years. This year though low 60s in wins wasn't gonna be #1 and a guy on that team was putting up gaudy stats too.

I'd say the Harden year he also had legit MVP argument if based just on individual, I mean anytime you're #2 you have a legit case. But that year just proved yet again how important regular season record is. His Cavs team didn't have a great record, pretty much out right there. If someone wants to argue team record shouldn't be so important that's a whole different topic, fact is it always has been.