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Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#781 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:50 pm

Claud wrote:Caris if a FOK, so I highly doubt he's traded unless it's for another FOK.

Not to mention he's under contract unlike Dinwiddie who WILL test free agency.

If we are making a trade, I have a feeling it will be DInwiddie + pieces.

Dinwiddie started the season strong then faded, while Caris was the opposite although he did deal with injuries.

Caris was playing out of his mind before the lockdown in March. Triple doubles, 50pt at the Boston garden, etc.

Personally I think in terms of production Dinwiddie has been slightly more consistent plus less injury prone than Caris.

With that said, they both possess allstar level talent. Lavine is on the same boat. He is not a CLEAR upgrade in mind.

I still want wait to see KD + Kyrie with our core before we start making any moves unless it's an obvious one.


I don't want to trade Dinwiddie, but if I had to choose between him and LeVert its not close. Dinwiddie cannot shoot well and cannot really play off ball. He doesn't fit well with Kyrie.

But what trade value does Dinwiddie really have with one year left?

The only guy I would look at trading is Allen. I love Allen but KD + Kyrie forced us to sign Jordan and expect him to start. Allen is too good to play a bench role.

If we can turn him into a stretch 4 that would be ideal.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#782 » by DarkXaero » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:02 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Paradise wrote:Wait, what?

LeVert is a significantly better defender and passer than LaVine.
That's statistically false. Levert is better as a playmaker and defender than Lavine, but not significantly better. They're ultimately both bad defenders.

In the end, calling Lavine a "high volume scorer", when the guy is averaging 25.5 PPG on above average efficiency, despite the dumpster fire around him, and with high level 3pt shooting, it's disingenuous. Levert is averaging 18 PPG on well below average efficiency. You can't just dismiss that easily.


Lavine stays putting up big stats on bad teams. Nets were far better with LeVert as the leading man when Kyrie was hurt.

LeVert is an average defender at worst, and Lavine is one of the worst in the league.
I'm sorry, are the Bulls supposed to be a playoffs team? He's surrounded by garbage there, and constantly gets swarmed by defenses, yet still putting up big numbers on ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency. Beal has put up numbers on a crap team, it doesn't invalidate what he has done. And Levert is not an average defender at worst, that's just straight up false :lol:

You need to make your homerism less obvious :lol:
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#783 » by Stone » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:06 pm

I'm not 100% convinced that DJ is untouchable. I don't think anyone has a leg up on Sean Marks.

As far as trade Jarrett Allen he only has a year left on his contract as well. And if he has a really strong season next season, it would be unwise to let him go. Of corse, we don't know what's going to happen with the cap.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#784 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:02 pm

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Caris+LeVert&player_id1_select=Caris+LeVert&player_id1=leverca01&idx=bbr__players&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id2_select=Zach+LaVine&player_id2=lavinza01&idx=bbr__players&y2=2020

I'm sorry, as much as I like our homegrown talent, saying that Caris LeVert is better than Zach LaVine is absolutely not true. The data does not back up the assertion, nor does the full body of work for both players. LaVine is younger, more athletic, and way more efficient at all three levels.

Neither of them are good defenders.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#785 » by Hello Brooklyn » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:25 am

DarkXaero wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:That's statistically false. Levert is better as a playmaker and defender than Lavine, but not significantly better. They're ultimately both bad defenders.

In the end, calling Lavine a "high volume scorer", when the guy is averaging 25.5 PPG on above average efficiency, despite the dumpster fire around him, and with high level 3pt shooting, it's disingenuous. Levert is averaging 18 PPG on well below average efficiency. You can't just dismiss that easily.


Lavine stays putting up big stats on bad teams. Nets were far better with LeVert as the leading man when Kyrie was hurt.

LeVert is an average defender at worst, and Lavine is one of the worst in the league.
I'm sorry, are the Bulls supposed to be a playoffs team? He's surrounded by garbage there, and constantly gets swarmed by defenses, yet still putting up big numbers on ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency. Beal has put up numbers on a crap team, it doesn't invalidate what he has done. And Levert is not an average defender at worst, that's just straight up false :lol:

You need to make your homerism less obvious :lol:


How are the Bulls worse than the Nets without KD and Kyrie? Its basically the same team as last year minus D Lo.

Please don't compare the Wizards G League roster to the Bulls. Thats a joke.

Lavine has never been on a winning team in his entire NBA career. Every team he has ever been on has been terrible.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#786 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:09 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Lavine has never been on a winning team in his entire NBA career. Every team he has ever been on has been terrible.


I can't hold that against him since Minnesota and Chicago have really poor front offices.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#787 » by TheBrooklynKidd » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:10 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:The goal should be to get Jrue Holiday without giving up Dinwiddie.

At this point Dinwiddie is clearly the 3rd best player on the team. He is extremely impactful on the offensive end when you look at his advanced stats.

I think it might be time to pull the trigger on a LeVert trade. If he has another underwhelming season it’ll be impossible to convince teams that he’s a young player with star potential at 26 years old.

LeVert, Allen and a 1st for Jrue is what the Nets should be pursuing.

Then maybe something like Prince, Kurucs and 2 1sts for Gordon.


That sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Jrue is way overpaid and has not even been an all star in years. Why would we give up Levert who is capable of putting up 20 a night and is on a far better contract?

To me the only upgrade we need to make is at PF.


You say that like Jrue isn’t capable of putting up 20 on every given night.

Jrue is an elite defender against guards/wings, something the Nets desperately need.

His contract is totally reasonable. Non-Nets fans actually consider Leverts contract to be an overpay.

I’m down to keep Levert but to call this a terrible take is simply incorrect.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#788 » by Hello Brooklyn » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:21 pm

TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:The goal should be to get Jrue Holiday without giving up Dinwiddie.

At this point Dinwiddie is clearly the 3rd best player on the team. He is extremely impactful on the offensive end when you look at his advanced stats.

I think it might be time to pull the trigger on a LeVert trade. If he has another underwhelming season it’ll be impossible to convince teams that he’s a young player with star potential at 26 years old.

LeVert, Allen and a 1st for Jrue is what the Nets should be pursuing.

Then maybe something like Prince, Kurucs and 2 1sts for Gordon.


That sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Jrue is way overpaid and has not even been an all star in years. Why would we give up Levert who is capable of putting up 20 a night and is on a far better contract?

To me the only upgrade we need to make is at PF.


You say that like Jrue isn’t capable of putting up 20 on every given night.

Jrue is an elite defender against guards/wings, something the Nets desperately need.

His contract is totally reasonable. Non-Nets fans actually consider Leverts contract to be an overpay.

I’m down to keep Levert but to call this a terrible take is simply incorrect.


Jrue is definitely overpaid. Hes being paid 30 mill and hes not even an All Star.

He also plays the same position as Kyrie and can't shoot. I don't really want a 6'3 guy as my starting SG.

Jrue is great for the right team. Hes not a good fit here. We need a guard who can play off ball and shoot well.

As far as defense, Dinwiddie can defend those matchups when need be.

Saying LeVerts contract is an overpay is just stupid. When healthy he can play at an all star level.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#789 » by TheBrooklynKidd » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:30 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
That sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Jrue is way overpaid and has not even been an all star in years. Why would we give up Levert who is capable of putting up 20 a night and is on a far better contract?

To me the only upgrade we need to make is at PF.


You say that like Jrue isn’t capable of putting up 20 on every given night.

Jrue is an elite defender against guards/wings, something the Nets desperately need.

His contract is totally reasonable. Non-Nets fans actually consider Leverts contract to be an overpay.

I’m down to keep Levert but to call this a terrible take is simply incorrect.


Jrue is definitely overpaid. Hes being paid 30 mill and hes not even an All Star.

He also plays the same position as Kyrie and can't shoot. I don't really want a 6'3 guy as my starting SG.

Jrue is great for the right team. Hes not a good fit here. We need a guard who can play off ball and shoot well.

As far as defense, Dinwiddie can defend those matchups when need be.

Saying LeVerts contract is an overpay is just stupid. When healthy he can play at an all star level.


Jrue is making 26 mill and has started at SG for the last 2 or 3 seasons. Impact wise he’s been a top 30 player in the league for a while and better than anyone that’s worn a Brooklyn Nets uniform, not named Kyrie.

You must not be aware of the defensive statistics. Dinwiddie is horrid according to those while Jrue is easily one of the best guard defenders in the league and has been for years. He’s made multiple all defensive teams and plays larger than his height.

Jrue is a decent catch and shoot 3 pt shooter and his elite defense more than makes up for a percentage point or 2.

I agree I think LeVert is reasonably paid. But his injury history, ball dominant style and maddening inconsistency puts off a lot of teams.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#790 » by kamaze » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Jrue Holiday would have been good for the Nets to go after during the Deron William's era in a straight up trade now he's old. I wouldn't trade Levert for him.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#791 » by DarkXaero » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:28 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Lavine stays putting up big stats on bad teams. Nets were far better with LeVert as the leading man when Kyrie was hurt.

LeVert is an average defender at worst, and Lavine is one of the worst in the league.
I'm sorry, are the Bulls supposed to be a playoffs team? He's surrounded by garbage there, and constantly gets swarmed by defenses, yet still putting up big numbers on ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency. Beal has put up numbers on a crap team, it doesn't invalidate what he has done. And Levert is not an average defender at worst, that's just straight up false :lol:

You need to make your homerism less obvious :lol:


How are the Bulls worse than the Nets without KD and Kyrie? Its basically the same team as last year minus D Lo.

Please don't compare the Wizards G League roster to the Bulls. Thats a joke.

Lavine has never been on a winning team in his entire NBA career. Every team he has ever been on has been terrible.
Bulls roster is garbage, dude, what are you on about? :lol:

Our roster even without KD & Kyrie is miles better than Bulls. Joe Harris would be the 2nd best player on the Bulls after Lavine lmao
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#792 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:43 am

DarkXaero wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:I'm sorry, are the Bulls supposed to be a playoffs team? He's surrounded by garbage there, and constantly gets swarmed by defenses, yet still putting up big numbers on ABOVE AVERAGE efficiency. Beal has put up numbers on a crap team, it doesn't invalidate what he has done. And Levert is not an average defender at worst, that's just straight up false :lol:

You need to make your homerism less obvious :lol:


How are the Bulls worse than the Nets without KD and Kyrie? Its basically the same team as last year minus D Lo.

Please don't compare the Wizards G League roster to the Bulls. Thats a joke.

Lavine has never been on a winning team in his entire NBA career. Every team he has ever been on has been terrible.
Bulls roster is garbage, dude, what are you on about? :lol:

Our roster even without KD & Kyrie is miles better than Bulls. Joe Harris would be the 2nd best player on the Bulls after Lavine lmao


Joe Harris vs Otto Porter is an interesting deep dive statistically.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#793 » by DarkXaero » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:08 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
How are the Bulls worse than the Nets without KD and Kyrie? Its basically the same team as last year minus D Lo.

Please don't compare the Wizards G League roster to the Bulls. Thats a joke.

Lavine has never been on a winning team in his entire NBA career. Every team he has ever been on has been terrible.
Bulls roster is garbage, dude, what are you on about? :lol:

Our roster even without KD & Kyrie is miles better than Bulls. Joe Harris would be the 2nd best player on the Bulls after Lavine lmao


Joe Harris vs Otto Porter is an interesting deep dive statistically.
Otto Porter can't even play though, dude played 14 games this season and may be on his way to become the next Chandler Parsons.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#794 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:00 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Bulls roster is garbage, dude, what are you on about? :lol:

Our roster even without KD & Kyrie is miles better than Bulls. Joe Harris would be the 2nd best player on the Bulls after Lavine lmao


Joe Harris vs Otto Porter is an interesting deep dive statistically.
Otto Porter can't even play though, dude played 14 games this season and may be on his way to become the next Chandler Parsons.


And with that, I breathe a sigh of relief at another bullet dodged.

Speaking of dodging bullets, Tyler Johnson looks good so far :lol:
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#795 » by DarkXaero » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:54 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Joe Harris vs Otto Porter is an interesting deep dive statistically.
Otto Porter can't even play though, dude played 14 games this season and may be on his way to become the next Chandler Parsons.


And with that, I breathe a sigh of relief at another bullet dodged.

Speaking of dodging bullets, Tyler Johnson looks good so far :lol:
Tyler Johnson so far has looked like how he looked in Miami, which is a very promising sign. I hope we signed him for two seasons.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#796 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:19 am

^
We didn't, we only signed Tyler for this season. But unlike the other recently signed players, we signed Johnson to a standard NBA contract, so we have his Early Bird rights.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#797 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:03 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:^
We didn't, we only signed Tyler for this season. But unlike the other recently signed players, we signed Johnson to a standard NBA contract, so we have his Early Bird rights.


That's good news. Just in case either LeVert or Dinwiddie get traded we will still have depth.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#798 » by DarkXaero » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:56 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:^
We didn't, we only signed Tyler for this season. But unlike the other recently signed players, we signed Johnson to a standard NBA contract, so we have his Early Bird rights.
I thought details on the contract weren't released so we don't know the length of it.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#799 » by DarkXaero » Sun Aug 2, 2020 9:35 pm

@MrDollarBills

Just for fun, some radical trade ideas to take this team towards complete win now mode:


Image

Image


Hypothetical depth chart:

Kyrie/Augustin*/Chiozza
Lavine/TJ*/Crawford
KD/Harris/TLC
Gordon/Kurucs/Chandler
Vuc/DJ/Claxton

or

Kyrie/Augustin*/Chiozza
Lavine/Dunn*/Crawford
KD/Harris/TLC
Gordon/Kurucs/Chandler
Vuc/DJ/Claxton

*FA signings (DJ Augustin, Tyler Johnson, Kris Dunn)

That is a really stacked, and deep roster, with an extremely strong starting lineup, while still retaining really solid depth. Offensively, that team is as good as it can realistically get, and Lavine & Aaron Gordon give us an athleticism boost. Vuc is a stretch 5 who can work in the post, mid range, and he can pass well too. This gives us a five out offense with five scoring threats, including four all star caliber scorers.

For Magic, they get out of Vuc's big contract, and Allen provides them a direct replacement for Vuc, while Bamba also gets more of an opportunity to develop there. They also get a very good PG in Dinwiddie, and a name who has long been rumored to be a target for them. Magic fans seem very willing to sell on Vuc, and AG. The Bulls trade is more simple. Bulls get a replacement for (seemingly unhappy) Lavine in Levert, and picks to compensate for value.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#800 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Aug 4, 2020 3:28 am

DarkXaero wrote:@MrDollarBills

Just for fun, some radical trade ideas to take this team towards complete win now mode:


Image

Image


Hypothetical depth chart:

Kyrie/Augustin*/Chiozza
Lavine/TJ*/Crawford
KD/Harris/TLC
Gordon/Kurucs/Chandler
Vuc/DJ/Claxton

or

Kyrie/Augustin*/Chiozza
Lavine/Dunn*/Crawford
KD/Harris/TLC
Gordon/Kurucs/Chandler
Vuc/DJ/Claxton

*FA signings (DJ Augustin, Tyler Johnson, Kris Dunn)

That is a really stacked, and deep roster, with an extremely strong starting lineup, while still retaining really solid depth. Offensively, that team is as good as it can realistically get, and Lavine & Aaron Gordon give us an athleticism boost. Vuc is a stretch 5 who can work in the post, mid range, and he can pass well too. This gives us a five out offense with five scoring threats, including four all star caliber scorers.

For Magic, they get out of Vuc's big contract, and Allen provides them a direct replacement for Vuc, while Bamba also gets more of an opportunity to develop there. They also get a very good PG in Dinwiddie, and a name who has long been rumored to be a target for them. Magic fans seem very willing to sell on Vuc, and AG. The Bulls trade is more simple. Bulls get a replacement for (seemingly unhappy) Lavine in Levert, and picks to compensate for value.


I don't see either trade working, I think the Bulls would want LeVert + another prospect for LaVine, and the Magic would have to do a lot of roster work to even make that trade work.
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