2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

[RHODEY]

“There could be NBA teams who explore selling their first round pick this year in order to raise money with league revenues significantly down for the 20-21 season.

"I suspect first-round picks will be for sale in this draft," one team executive said. "We haven't really seen that in a decade."

The Denver Nuggets were the last team to sell a first round pick as they sold the selection that became Rudy Gobert in 2013 to the Utah Jazz.

The 2020 draft is generally considered to be one of the weaker classes in recent memory.”


Let’s buy some 1sts

Thibs: Are you kiddin' me Rob? I got Franky bones slated for 40 minuites per game...we have no room for cheap dynamic young talent

Leon Rose: "We are looking to amp up on vets, We are the GARDEN not KINDERgarden."

Dolan: (to Security) "have him escorted out ...We need wins....just enough to screw ourselves in the deepest draft since 1996, plus I'd rather overpay for mediocre vets"

[moocow007]

Players drafted by Thibs in Minnesota:

2016:
Kris Dunn

2017:
Justin Patton

2018:
Josh Okogie
Keita Bates-Diop

none of his rookies played more than 25min per game, he definitely prefers the vets, but hopefully he has different directions from the FO, hated last year giving so many minutes to players who have no future here. dont want Thibs coming in playing Taj 30 min per game, or bringing in a Jeff Teague/DJ Augustin and playing them a ton of minutes over the young PG we draft

Thibs played a 22 year old Derrick Rose 37mpg, a 25 year old Joakim Noah 33mpg and a 25 year old Loul Deng 39mpg in his 1st season with the Bulls. Taj Gibson and Ronnie Brewer also logged major minutes and both guys were only 25 at the time. Jimmy Butler averaged 39mpg as a 24 year old. All these guys were seen as foundation pieces to the team at the time. Folks forget that Deng and Gibson were both young back then not the more familiar older players that most folks have in mind.

In Minnesota he played 3 21 year old players (Zach Levine, Karl Towns and Andrew Wiggins) each 37mpg in his first season. These were the Wolves defacto foundation players. Thibs entire starting lineup was under 29.

So the notion that Thibs only play older guys or hired guns isn't quite accurate. What seems consistent, especially in his Bulls days, is that he plays guys that most deserve the minutes regardless of age.

Does it seem like he has a tendency of playing guys a lot of minutes? Yes.

But there's no indication he favors anyone over anyone else other than guys that he thinks he can best win with. The hired guns the Knicks had last year were not world beaters by any stretch. I doubt if Thibs was in place that he'd have played them a lot over the younger guys tbqh. Only guys that I think would have gotten minutes would have been Reggie Bullock, Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. And Randle probably would have gotten the same sub 30mpg minutes that he gave Carlos Boozer when he joined the Bulls. Bullock would have probably gotten about 22-25 minutes a game like Ronnie Brewer had. Morris? Probably a bit more but I doubt more than he had last year under Fizdale/Miller.

[moocow007]

This is what I imagine Frank will become under Thibs...



Playing with a murderous edge instead of the milquetoast-ish "logical" play we've grown accustomed to see. Evil Spock was a bad ass. A guy that didn't hold back on all that crazy Vulcan strength, used that neck pinch to kill and was really the most potent member of that parallel universe Enterprise.

[robillionaire]

Players drafted by Thibs in Minnesota:

2016:
Kris Dunn

2017:
Justin Patton

2018:
Josh Okogie
Keita Bates-Diop

none of his rookies played more than 25min per game, he definitely prefers the vets, but hopefully he has different directions from the FO, hated last year giving so many minutes to players who have no future here. dont want Thibs coming in playing Taj 30 min per game, or bringing in a Jeff Teague/DJ Augustin and playing them a ton of minutes over the young PG we draft

Thibs played a 22 year old Derrick Rose 37mpg, a 25 year old Joakim Noah 33mpg and a 25 year old Loul Deng 39mpg in his 1st season with the Bulls. Taj Gibson and Ronnie Brewer also logged major minutes and both guys were only 25 at the time. Jimmy Butler averaged 39mpg as a 24 year old. All these guys were seen as foundation pieces to the team at the time. Folks forget that Deng and Gibson were both young back then not the more familiar older players that most folks have in mind.

In Minnesota he played 3 21 year old players (Zach Levine, Karl Towns and Andrew Wiggins) each 37mpg in his first season. These were the Wolves defacto foundation players. Thibs entire starting lineup was under 29.

So the notion that Thibs only play older guys or hired guns isn't quite accurate. What seems consistent, especially in his Bulls days, is that he plays guys that most deserve the minutes regardless of age.

Does it seem like he has a tendency of playing guys a lot of minutes? Yes.

But there's no indication he favors anyone over anyone else other than guys that he thinks he can best win with. The hired guns the Knicks had last year were not world beaters by any stretch. I doubt if Thibs was in place that he'd have played them a lot over the younger guys tbqh. Only guys that I think would have gotten minutes would have been Reggie Bullock, Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. And Randle probably would have gotten the same sub 30mpg minutes that he gave Carlos Boozer when he joined the Bulls. Bullock would have probably gotten about 22-25 minutes a game like Ronnie Brewer had. Morris? Probably a bit more but I doubt more than he had last year under Fizdale/Miller.

22 is old for this team. that's a 4th year player now. 25 is a fossil

[Infinitimind]

I kinda agree. But if we land high anyway like 3rd or something we shouldn't have to give much extra for Lamelo. Otherwise I rock with Hayes....hell I'd rock with Hayes regardless!

More then half this board would turn to smoking rock if we passed on LaMelo for hayes.

They better hope they don’t allow fans at the draft or we’d probably burn down the building

I’m don’t see the hype with Hayes, he looks like he can be a descent pg, but I don’t see star potential. LaMelo has good height for his position elite passing and handle. He issues are shot selection, broken shot and defense. If he can fix his shot and play uptempo he can be a star. Can you say the same for Hayes?

[moocow007]

Players drafted by Thibs in Minnesota:

2016:
Kris Dunn

2017:
Justin Patton

2018:
Josh Okogie
Keita Bates-Diop

none of his rookies played more than 25min per game, he definitely prefers the vets, but hopefully he has different directions from the FO, hated last year giving so many minutes to players who have no future here. dont want Thibs coming in playing Taj 30 min per game, or bringing in a Jeff Teague/DJ Augustin and playing them a ton of minutes over the young PG we draft

Thibs played a 22 year old Derrick Rose 37mpg, a 25 year old Joakim Noah 33mpg and a 25 year old Loul Deng 39mpg in his 1st season with the Bulls. Taj Gibson and Ronnie Brewer also logged major minutes and both guys were only 25 at the time. Jimmy Butler averaged 39mpg as a 24 year old. All these guys were seen as foundation pieces to the team at the time. Folks forget that Deng and Gibson were both young back then not the more familiar older players that most folks have in mind.

In Minnesota he played 3 21 year old players (Zach Levine, Karl Towns and Andrew Wiggins) each 37mpg in his first season. These were the Wolves defacto foundation players. Thibs entire starting lineup was under 29.

So the notion that Thibs only play older guys or hired guns isn't quite accurate. What seems consistent, especially in his Bulls days, is that he plays guys that most deserve the minutes regardless of age.

Does it seem like he has a tendency of playing guys a lot of minutes? Yes.

But there's no indication he favors anyone over anyone else other than guys that he thinks he can best win with. The hired guns the Knicks had last year were not world beaters by any stretch. I doubt if Thibs was in place that he'd have played them a lot over the younger guys tbqh. Only guys that I think would have gotten minutes would have been Reggie Bullock, Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. And Randle probably would have gotten the same sub 30mpg minutes that he gave Carlos Boozer when he joined the Bulls. Bullock would have probably gotten about 22-25 minutes a game like Ronnie Brewer had. Morris? Probably a bit more but I doubt more than he had last year under Fizdale/Miller.

22 is old for this team. that's a 4th year player now. 25 is a fossil

But it wasn't young for the Bulls and Wolves team is the point. He plays guys that he thinks he can win with. And he plays them a lot. The potential wear and tear is a concern but I wouldn't be concerned about young guys not getting play. He'll play whoever does the best and performs.

Kenny Atkinson did the same thing. He relied on experience guys like Spencer Dinwiddie (who had been around the block but still young) who played to win. Joe Harris the same. He played older guys like Demarre Carroll but he played younger guys like Rodions Kurucs as well. The one common denominator is those players always competed and played hard nosed team ball. All the Knicks young players need to do is to "play the right way" and they'll get minutes. Nothing wrong with that. How many minutes is more of a concern.

I would expect RJ Barrett to be a potential candidate for a lot of minutes and a big role. I would expect Frank to also get a lot more minutes and a bigger role.Mitch Robinson is more dubious cause he still relies more on his physical tools than basketball IQ. If that can't be tapped he may not get any more minutes than he got last year. Kevin Knox could literally be heading into a make or break year lol.

One guy in this draft that would seem to be the perfect Thibs player is Onyeka Okongwu who under Thibs can turn out to be an elite NBA player IMO. And yeah I honestly can see a guy like Cole Anthony also doing well (not Derrick Rose Bulls well but well enough) as I think guys that play with that type of chip on shoulder intensity jive well with Thibs style and own aggressive personality. I think LaMelo Ball under Tom Thibodeau could really turn Ball into an elite talent.

[knickstape4ever]

Thibs played a 22 year old Derrick Rose 37mpg, a 25 year old Joakim Noah 33mpg and a 25 year old Loul Deng 39mpg in his 1st season with the Bulls. Taj Gibson and Ronnie Brewer also logged major minutes and both guys were only 25 at the time. Jimmy Butler averaged 39mpg as a 24 year old. All these guys were seen as foundation pieces to the team at the time. Folks forget that Deng and Gibson were both young back then not the more familiar older players that most folks have in mind.

In Minnesota he played 3 21 year old players (Zach Levine, Karl Towns and Andrew Wiggins) each 37mpg in his first season. These were the Wolves defacto foundation players. Thibs entire starting lineup was under 29.

So the notion that Thibs only play older guys or hired guns isn't quite accurate. What seems consistent, especially in his Bulls days, is that he plays guys that most deserve the minutes regardless of age.

Does it seem like he has a tendency of playing guys a lot of minutes? Yes.

But there's no indication he favors anyone over anyone else other than guys that he thinks he can best win with. The hired guns the Knicks had last year were not world beaters by any stretch. I doubt if Thibs was in place that he'd have played them a lot over the younger guys tbqh. Only guys that I think would have gotten minutes would have been Reggie Bullock, Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. And Randle probably would have gotten the same sub 30mpg minutes that he gave Carlos Boozer when he joined the Bulls. Bullock would have probably gotten about 22-25 minutes a game like Ronnie Brewer had. Morris? Probably a bit more but I doubt more than he had last year under Fizdale/Miller.

22 is old for this team. that's a 4th year player now. 25 is a fossil

But it wasn't young for the Bulls and Wolves team is the point. He plays guys that he thinks he can win with. And he plays them a lot.

yeah.....that's the point. many fans here want to play the young players, not just the players that give us the best chance at winning. Elfrid Payton, Taj, Randle technically gave us a better shot at winning last season, but that doesn't mean that that was best for the franchise; those players have very little future here

[stuporman]

I have no idea how these evaluations are gonna go down in this time frame and the pandemic but I guess it's better for the Knicks to be on the outside of the bubble because it let's them have less complications in doing so. I can barely remember who these guys are let alone what they looked like on the floor so I will have to spend some time on video to get a solid read on them. Haha

So is this thing going to wind up forcing the league to shift their season to a permanent later opening because they should anyway to create more attention across the whole season. I'm just not sure how it would line the draft up though other than maybe it gives the young guys more time to prepare if it's later in the year, too.

[RHODEY]

More then half this board would turn to smoking rock if we passed on LaMelo for hayes.

They better hope they don’t allow fans at the draft or we’d probably burn down the building

I’m don’t see the hype with Hayes, he looks like he can be a descent pg, but I don’t see star potential. LaMelo has good height for his position elite passing and handle. He issues are shot selection, broken shot and defense. If he can fix his shot and play uptempo he can be a star. Can you say the same for Hayes?

I could. Although it may take him a bit longer to adjust. Unlike Lamelo he seems interested in defense and also has a better shot IQ. He's crafty AF and his step back shot is Harden-esq. But I don't see the hype on Hayes, few are bigging him up on here besides me. Same goes for the media.

Watch on YouTube

[sims]

They better hope they don’t allow fans at the draft or we’d probably burn down the building

I’m don’t see the hype with Hayes, he looks like he can be a descent pg, but I don’t see star potential. LaMelo has good height for his position elite passing and handle. He issues are shot selection, broken shot and defense. If he can fix his shot and play uptempo he can be a star. Can you say the same for Hayes?

I could. Although it may take him a bit longer to adjust. Unlike Lamelo he seems interested in defense and also has a better shot IQ. He's crafty AF and his step back shot is Harden-esq. But I don't see the hype on Hayes, few are bigging him up on here besides me. Same goes for the media.

i'm going to touch the third rail of knicks basketball and say the fascination with hayes here reminds me somewhat of the predraft hype around frank in 2017. meaning, what has he actually done to justify his draft stock? point to something he is or can do that suggests he will be a star. frank at least had elite measurables for a guard. it didn't work out as we planned, but i get the thinking behind taking a swing at him. with hayes it's much less clear to me. he's an average athlete, average to below average shooter, doesn't seem to stand out as a facilitator or floor general - what am i missing? it's feels to me like everyone is extrapolating entirely too much from his stepback move.

i'll probably cringe at this post in 5 yrs but for now that's how i see it. to be fair i was also down on deni until his recent stretch and now he's in the running to be my number one guy in this draft - would love to be proven wrong about hayes as well. we've been burned by two top prospects who have shown nothing in recent years in frank and knox and need to start raising our standards.

[Worst_to_First]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

[3toheadmelo]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

[mpharris36]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

[mpharris36]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

I'm excited there putting together a combine. Everyone getting a few more looks at this guys from a long layoff. I'm curious about the logistics...are the going to bubble this kids up like a AAU tourny and then have them do a bunch of drills and maybe scrimmages?

[3toheadmelo]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

I'm excited there putting together a combine. Everyone getting a few more looks at this guys from a long layoff. I'm curious about the logistics...are the going to bubble this kids up like a AAU tourny and then have them do a bunch of drills and maybe scrimmages?

I don’t think there’s any details on the combine yet

[RHODEY]

I’m don’t see the hype with Hayes, he looks like he can be a descent pg, but I don’t see star potential. LaMelo has good height for his position elite passing and handle. He issues are shot selection, broken shot and defense. If he can fix his shot and play uptempo he can be a star. Can you say the same for Hayes?

I could. Although it may take him a bit longer to adjust. Unlike Lamelo he seems interested in defense and also has a better shot IQ. He's crafty AF and his step back shot is Harden-esq. But I don't see the hype on Hayes, few are bigging him up on here besides me. Same goes for the media.

i'm going to touch the third rail of knicks basketball and say the fascination with hayes here reminds me somewhat of the predraft hype around frank in 2017. meaning, what has he actually done to justify his draft stock? point to something he is or can do that suggests he will be a star. frank at least had elite measurables for a guard. it didn't work out as we planned, but i get the thinking behind taking a swing at him. with hayes it's much less clear to me. he's an average athlete, average to below average shooter, doesn't seem to stand out as a facilitator or floor general - what am i missing? it's feels to me like everyone is extrapolating entirely too much from his stepback move.

i'll probably cringe at this post in 5 yrs but for now that's how i see it. to be fair i was also down on deni until his recent stretch and now he's in the running to be my number one guy in this draft - would love to be proven wrong about hayes as well. we've been burned by two top prospects who have shown nothing in recent years in frank and knox and need to start raising our standards.

You're entitled to your opinion. Not sure how you dont see the facilitation skills and the shooting potential from the video I posted. But you could be right he could turn out to be a dud, as could Lamelo who right now isn't the best shooter and is a disinterested defender...its all a guessing game until proven.

[mpharris36]

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

I'm excited there putting together a combine. Everyone getting a few more looks at this guys from a long layoff. I'm curious about the logistics...are the going to bubble this kids up like a AAU tourny and then have them do a bunch of drills and maybe scrimmages?

I don’t think there’s any details on the combine yet

yeah maybe I miss read the post about invites being sent out to players but dates have been confirmed. But that at least makes me think they are trying to put something together for these young guys and the teams to get them more information.

[Deeeez Knicks]

New mock from Wasserman. Deni to the Knicks at #6. Nico at #27

Read on Twitter

6. New York Knicks: Deni Avdija (Maccabi Tel Aviv, SF/PF, 2001)
A point guard may be the target for the New York Knicks, but they won't reach to fill a need. President Leon Rose and general manager Scott Perry will be focused on adding talent in the draft for new coach Tom Thibodeau. And since the Israeli BSL resumed last month, Deni Avdija's top-five case has only gotten stronger.

He was just named MVP of the Winner League after playing an integral role in Maccabi Tel Aviv's championship run.

The Knicks would presumably consider him at No. 6 if LaMelo Ball and Tyrese Haliburton were gone. France's Killian Hayes will also be in the mix, though scouts seem split on whether he's worthy of going in the first half of the lottery, and it's unclear where the New York front office stands.

But most feel safe about Avdija, even if they question the height of his ceiling because of concerns over his shooting consistency and ability to create for himself. At 6'8", he's put on considerable muscle and possesses the skill versatility to grab and go, handle in pick-and-rolls, work from the post and spot up from three.

Instead of adding a rookie to run the offense, the Knicks could focus on building their wing with Avdija and RJ Barrett and try to sign a point guard and/or give more responsibility to Frank Ntilikina.

27. New York Knicks (via Clippers): Nico Mannion (Arizona, PG, Freshman)

The Knicks would buy low on Mannion, who entered the season viewed as a potential top-10 pick. A few slumps ruined his shooting percentages, and questions about his physical tools got louder as the season went on. But Mannion still possesses a well-rounded skill set for a point guard, between his pull-up game, off-screen shooting and playmaking vision.

[EMG518]

I read somewhere that the Spurs are trying to build a package in order to move up in the draft and get Wiseman. Says they have him as a far #1 on their board and they did their homework on him.

If that’s true hope the Spurs can pull it off.

Not surprised. They probably see some similarities with this guy here.

Can we please just get lucky one time and get in a position to draft him ourselves.

[-YogiBiz-]

New mock from Wasserman. Deni to the Knicks at #6. Nico at #27

Read on Twitter

6. New York Knicks: Deni Avdija (Maccabi Tel Aviv, SF/PF, 2001)
A point guard may be the target for the New York Knicks, but they won't reach to fill a need. President Leon Rose and general manager Scott Perry will be focused on adding talent in the draft for new coach Tom Thibodeau. And since the Israeli BSL resumed last month, Deni Avdija's top-five case has only gotten stronger.

He was just named MVP of the Winner League after playing an integral role in Maccabi Tel Aviv's championship run.

The Knicks would presumably consider him at No. 6 if LaMelo Ball and Tyrese Haliburton were gone. France's Killian Hayes will also be in the mix, though scouts seem split on whether he's worthy of going in the first half of the lottery, and it's unclear where the New York front office stands.

But most feel safe about Avdija, even if they question the height of his ceiling because of concerns over his shooting consistency and ability to create for himself. At 6'8", he's put on considerable muscle and possesses the skill versatility to grab and go, handle in pick-and-rolls, work from the post and spot up from three.

Instead of adding a rookie to run the offense, the Knicks could focus on building their wing with Avdija and RJ Barrett and try to sign a point guard and/or give more responsibility to Frank Ntilikina.

27. New York Knicks (via Clippers): Nico Mannion (Arizona, PG, Freshman)

The Knicks would buy low on Mannion, who entered the season viewed as a potential top-10 pick. A few slumps ruined his shooting percentages, and questions about his physical tools got louder as the season went on. But Mannion still possesses a well-rounded skill set for a point guard, between his pull-up game, off-screen shooting and playmaking vision.

They should've just given us Riller. Riller + Avdija would be a bomb ass first round IMO. Although Riller would be older than almost everyone of our youngsters. Deni + Nico is a good haul though.