Championship hopes

LloydFree · Post #301 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:14 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Yes, Ingram and Harris are very redundant. They are the same type of player, with Ingram being better than Harris at what they do.

If you have Ingram you need to trade Harris for sure and fill other holes of the team.

If i have to strictly awnser the question, still maybe i rather have Ingram than Simmons in this team. That's how much i dislike Simmons and Embiids fit, even more in the Playoffs. But isn't that Ingram would made us a much better team with this roster.

Ingram is fool's gold. There is always a player in the league that puts up points on a team, just because someone has to score, but does nothing to impact winning any games. There is a reason that Ingram has never played on a .500 team and Ben Simmons has never won less than 50 games. Ingram isn't an impact player.

Kobblehead · Post #302 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 2:29 pm

Zumramania wrote:Why is our defense underperforming? Before Simmons got injured, at least on paper it should have been one of the strongest in the league.

Other than Embiid, Simmons, Thybulle, and Horford (when he's playing C), our entire rotation is made up of bad defenders (Harris, Milton, Burks, Korkmaz, Scott, etc) or guys who stopped playing defense well and are living on reputation (Richardson).

youngcrev · Post #303 » by **youngcrev** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:08 pm

Zumramania wrote:Why is our defense underperforming? Before Simmons got injured, at least on paper it should have been one of the strongest in the league.

6th isn't all that bad, though certainly disappointing given that we came into the year thinking they had the personnel to be amazing on that end.

I think Embiid's had a down year defensively, but even still, during the minutes he's been on the floor the team has played at a league best level statistically, so it's hard to put it on him. The fact that they fell off as much as they did whenever he stepped off the floor in spite of still having some good defenders out there would seem to point to them not making adjustments to the scheme based on who is on the floor (Horford isn't capable of doing the same things that Embiid does).

There are multiple factors (injuries, disappointing defensive years out of Horford/Richardson/Jo, the original being thrown in the trash because of the other end of the floor), but I'd probably lay the most blame at the feet of Brett. I don't think he's a bad coach, but do think he's bad on multiple fronts this year.

LloydFree · Post #304 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:32 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Zumramania wrote:Why is our defense underperforming? Before Simmons got injured, at least on paper it should have been one of the strongest in the league.

6th isn't all that bad, though certainly disappointing given that we came into the year thinking they had the personnel to be amazing on that end.

I think Embiid's had a down year defensively, but even still, during the minutes he's been on the floor the team has played at a league best level statistically, so it's hard to put it on him. The fact that they fell off as much as they did whenever he stepped off the floor in spite of still having some good defenders out there would seem to point to them not making adjustments to the scheme based on who is on the floor (Horford isn't capable of doing the same things that Embiid does).

There are multiple factors (injuries, disappointing defensive years out of Horford/Richardson/Jo, the original being thrown in the trash because of the other end of the floor), but I'd probably lay the most blame at the feet of Brett. I don't think he's a bad coach, but do think he's bad on multiple fronts this year.

1. Constant injuries to the players who are actually good defenders (Embiid, Richardson and Simmons).
2. Players constantly defending down from their position. Such as C's defending PF's, PF's defending SF's and SG's defending PG's much of the games.
3. Nobody on the roster, other than Josh Richardson being capable of any credible defense on PG's.
4. Embiid conserving energy on defense most of the game, and only exerting in what he believes are key moments.

Post #305 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 3:38 pm

They'd probably be close to 2nd or 3rd if Embiid didn't miss a third of the season. Cleaning the glass has the team as 104 with Embiid on the court versus 119 without him or Horford (and that doesn't include garbage time).

Kobblehead · Post #306 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 4:01 pm

Regardless of our regular season ranking, it really doesn't matter when, come playoff time, our 8 man rotation is loaded with exploitable defenders.

I believe we were the 4th ranked defense in 2018 when Redick, Saric, Belinelli, and Ilyasova were systematically targeted and abused in the postseason.

Post #307 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 4:31 pm

Well similarly they had a 101 defensive rating when Embiid played in that series. Even overall it was 108 that series was more about Boston just outplaying us on defense than anything else.

I'm not getting into whether Tobias Harris is a better defender than Marco Bellineli and so on with you again especially with Simmons out making the comparison between the teams moot but it really comes down to the guy in the back than anything else.

Kobblehead · Post #308 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 4:45 pm

Seems like defensive anchors are becoming increasingly less relevant to the performance of a defensive unit. The driving force behind what is or what isn't a good defensive unit in games that matter, these days, appears to be whether or not you have enough non-exploitable defenders on the perimeter.

The Sixers didn't project to have a good playoff defense even before Ben Simmons got hurt, just based on the guys that were projected to be playing in our rotation. Without Ben, it's going to be a downright crapshow defensively. I don't think Embiid can impact that fate.

mike76 · Post #309 » by **mike76** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:18 pm

LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Zumramania wrote:Why is our defense underperforming? Before Simmons got injured, at least on paper it should have been one of the strongest in the league.

6th isn't all that bad, though certainly disappointing given that we came into the year thinking they had the personnel to be amazing on that end.

I think Embiid's had a down year defensively, but even still, during the minutes he's been on the floor the team has played at a league best level statistically, so it's hard to put it on him. The fact that they fell off as much as they did whenever he stepped off the floor in spite of still having some good defenders out there would seem to point to them not making adjustments to the scheme based on who is on the floor (Horford isn't capable of doing the same things that Embiid does).

There are multiple factors (injuries, disappointing defensive years out of Horford/Richardson/Jo, the original being thrown in the trash because of the other end of the floor), but I'd probably lay the most blame at the feet of Brett. I don't think he's a bad coach, but do think he's bad on multiple fronts this year.

1. Constant injuries to the players who are actually good defenders (Embiid, Richardson and Simmons).
2. Players constantly defending down from their position. Such as C's defending PF's, PF's defending SF's and SG's defending PG's much of the games.
3. Nobody on the roster, other than Josh Richardson being capable of any credible defense on PG's.
4. Embiid conserving energy on defense most of the game, and only exerting in what he believes are key moments.

I think 2 can be a benefit for us in certain cases. Josh and Ben defending down a position is awesome because their size makes it very difficult to shoot over them cleanly which is why we are one of the best at defending the 3 point line. It doesnt work well with Tobi and Al defending down a position though because they can get beat by athletic people off the dribble.

I think with 3, both Thybulle and Ben can definitely defend point guards at a very high level.

I think our biggest detractor besides injuries/regular season effort is that our defense isnt exactly loaded with guys who can make plays off the ball (bar Thybulle) and just hunt steals and reading the passing lanes at all times. We are 19th in the league in forcing turnovers which is just a by-product of our coaching staff trying to hide guys like Shake, Tobi, Korkmaz rather than have them swarm the defense (which requires switching off ball a lot which means possible mismatches created). A bit of a catch 22.

We are also pretty terrible at defending without fouling.

LloydFree · Post #310 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:25 pm

mike76 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
6th isn't all that bad, though certainly disappointing given that we came into the year thinking they had the personnel to be amazing on that end.

I think Embiid's had a down year defensively, but even still, during the minutes he's been on the floor the team has played at a league best level statistically, so it's hard to put it on him. The fact that they fell off as much as they did whenever he stepped off the floor in spite of still having some good defenders out there would seem to point to them not making adjustments to the scheme based on who is on the floor (Horford isn't capable of doing the same things that Embiid does).

There are multiple factors (injuries, disappointing defensive years out of Horford/Richardson/Jo, the original being thrown in the trash because of the other end of the floor), but I'd probably lay the most blame at the feet of Brett. I don't think he's a bad coach, but do think he's bad on multiple fronts this year.

1. Constant injuries to the players who are actually good defenders (Embiid, Richardson and Simmons).
2. Players constantly defending down from their position. Such as C's defending PF's, PF's defending SF's and SG's defending PG's much of the games.
3. Nobody on the roster, other than Josh Richardson being capable of any credible defense on PG's.
4. Embiid conserving energy on defense most of the game, and only exerting in what he believes are key moments.

I think 2 can be a benefit for us in certain cases. Josh and Ben defending down a position is awesome because their size makes it very difficult to shoot over them cleanly which is why we are one of the best at defending the 3 point line. It doesnt work well with Tobi and Al defending down a position though because they can get beat by athletic people off the dribble.

I think with 3, both Thybulle and Ben can definitely defend point guards at a very high level.

I think our biggest detractor besides injuries/regular season effort is that our defense isnt exactly loaded with guys who can make plays off the ball (bar Thybulle) and just hunt steals and reading the passing lanes at all times. We are 19th in the league in forcing turnovers which is just a by-product of our coaching staff trying to hide guys like Shake, Tobi, Korkmaz rather than have them swarm the defense (which requires switching off ball a lot which means possible mismatches created). A bit of a catch 22.

We are also pretty terrible at defending without fouling.

Simmons isn't good at defending PG's, he's a forward and wing defender. The couple minutes he D'd up Schroeder aside, Thybulle is a mediocre on-ball defender and let's any good PG run right by him. If Thybulle were tasked with defending PG'S an entire game, he'd foul out in 20 minutes right now.

mike76 · Post #311 » by **mike76** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:28 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Seems like defensive anchors are becoming increasingly less relevant to the performance of a defensive unit. The driving force behind what is or what isn't a good defensive unit in games that matter, these days, appears to be whether or not you have enough non-exploitable defenders on the perimeter.

The Sixers didn't project to have a good playoff defense even before Ben Simmons got hurt, just based on the guys that were projected to be playing in our rotation. Without Ben, it's going to be a downright crapshow defensively. I don't think Embiid can impact that fate.

I don't think this is true.

Looking at the top 7 defenses only Clippers and Celtics lack a true elite rim protector or an elite defensive 4/5 pairing (and those two teams just go all in on elite wing defenders and still manage to play some defensive liabilities like Lou and Kemba)

Bucks have a Lopez (leads the league in blocks)/Giannis (DPOY frontrunner) frontcourt
Toronto has a Siakam/Gasol (former DPOY)
Lakers have an AD (possible DPOY)/McGee front court
Pacers have Sabonis/Turner frontcourt

All very good defensive frontcourts

mike76 · Post #312 » by **mike76** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:35 pm

LloydFree wrote:
mike76 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:1. Constant injuries to the players who are actually good defenders (Embiid, Richardson and Simmons).
2. Players constantly defending down from their position. Such as C's defending PF's, PF's defending SF's and SG's defending PG's much of the games.
3. Nobody on the roster, other than Josh Richardson being capable of any credible defense on PG's.
4. Embiid conserving energy on defense most of the game, and only exerting in what he believes are key moments.

I think 2 can be a benefit for us in certain cases. Josh and Ben defending down a position is awesome because their size makes it very difficult to shoot over them cleanly which is why we are one of the best at defending the 3 point line. It doesnt work well with Tobi and Al defending down a position though because they can get beat by athletic people off the dribble.

I think with 3, both Thybulle and Ben can definitely defend point guards at a very high level.

I think our biggest detractor besides injuries/regular season effort is that our defense isnt exactly loaded with guys who can make plays off the ball (bar Thybulle) and just hunt steals and reading the passing lanes at all times. We are 19th in the league in forcing turnovers which is just a by-product of our coaching staff trying to hide guys like Shake, Tobi, Korkmaz rather than have them swarm the defense (which requires switching off ball a lot which means possible mismatches created). A bit of a catch 22.

We are also pretty terrible at defending without fouling.

Simmons isn't good at defending PG's, he's a forward and wing defender. The couple minutes he D'd up Schroeder aside, Thybulle is a mediocre on-ball defender and let's any good PG run right by him. If Thybulle were tasked with defending PG'S an entire game, he'd foul out in 20 minutes right now.

https://stats.nba.com/player/1627732/by-position/

Guards are shorting under 40% from the field against Ben and only 33% from 3. Ben can defend 1-4 very easily (bar one very hot TJ warren)

https://stats.nba.com/player/1629680/by-position/

Same deal for Thybulle (although this stat will include more SGs than Ben's stats)

Honestly both Simmons and Thybulle defend guards as well as Josh imo

https://stats.nba.com/player/1626196/by-position/

elchengue20 · Post #313 » by **elchengue20** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:38 pm

Yeah having big men to protect the rim is still crucial for a defense. The only thing that has changed is that also you need them to be mobile, so they can defend the perimeter a little and not get murdered in switches.

I will add Nurkic and Collins as an example. Blazers defense would be an disaster without them.

Rim protectors are very important, that's one of the reasons Embiid has MVP potential( and he's more valuable than Simmons defensively).

NYSixersFan · Post #314 » by **NYSixersFan** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:45 pm

I'm thinking Burks is better than Richardson and should start....thoughts?

Kobblehead · Post #315 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:50 pm

mike76 wrote:I don't think this is true.

Looking at the top 7 defenses only Clippers and Celtics lack a true elite rim protector or an elite defensive 4/5 pairing (and those two teams just go all in on elite wing defenders and still manage to play some defensive liabilities like Lou and Kemba)

Bucks have a Lopez (leads the league in blocks)/Giannis (DPOY frontrunner) frontcourt
Toronto has a Siakam/Gasol (former DPOY)
Lakers have an AD (possible DPOY)/McGee front court
Pacers have Sabonis/Turner frontcourt

All very good defensive frontcourts

Because having a good defense is way more dependent on coaching/scheme and perimeter defenders than it is rim protection. As Brad Stevens and Steve Kerr prove on a yearly basis.

Brook Lopez is irrelevant to the Bucks defensive success. He's been on terrible defenses his whole career before he got to Milwaukee. The Bucks defensive success is 100% attributed to Budenholzer (who had elite defenses in Atlanta without rim protection) and Giannis.

Toronto has defenders at nearly every spot of their rotation and play in an elite defensive scheme. It didn't matter if they were anchored by Gasol or Valanciunas.

Anthony Davis is an elite anchor, but the Lakers are also loaded with perimeter defenders. Danny Green, Avery Bradley, LeBron when he tries, KCP, Rondo, Caruso, etc.

Do you think Nik Vucevik is an elite anchor? Because he's been the man in the middle of top 10 defense two years in a row.

76ciology · Post #316 » by **76ciology** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:52 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #317 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:00 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Seems like defensive anchors are becoming increasingly less relevant to the performance of a defensive unit. The driving force behind what is or what isn't a good defensive unit in games that matter, these days, appears to be whether or not you have enough non-exploitable defenders on the perimeter.

The Sixers didn't project to have a good playoff defense even before Ben Simmons got hurt, just based on the guys that were projected to be playing in our rotation. Without Ben, it's going to be a downright crapshow defensively. I don't think Embiid can impact that fate.

Defensive rating:
2017/2018 Playoffs: With Embiid on the court: 99.8. Off the court: 114.7
2018/2019 Playoffs: With Embiid on the court: 94.8. Off the court: 122.1

And that's playing like 85% of his minutes or whatever with Redick.

Yes, clearly the conclusion we should draw here is that rim protection has no impact on defense in the playoffs.

Kobblehead · Post #318 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:28 pm

The conclusion we should draw is that Ersan Ilyasova is a terrible backup C and that a past-prime Greg Monroe that you sign off the streets can't be the answer for your crappy depth.

If your rotation is chock full of terrible defenders, it doesn't matter who is back there at C.

Coaching/scheme > rim protection
Perimeter defenders > rim protection

Post #319 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:36 pm

Kobblehead wrote:The conclusion we should draw is that Ersan Ilyasova is a terrible backup C and that a past-prime Greg Monroe that you sign off the streets can't be the answer for your crappy depth.

If your rotation is chock full of terrible defenders, it doesn't matter who is back there at C.

Coaching/scheme > rim protection
Perimeter defenders > rim protection

Except when Embiid was behind the same perimeter defenders in the same coaching scheme the team was elite defensively.

This is such an obvious example I expect even you to back off of this.

Kobblehead · Post #320 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:54 pm

Yeah, such an elite defense.

Embiid either hobbled, with bubble guts, or preserving his energy because he wants to carry an offensive load sitting around helpless as our terrible perimeter defenders got switched onto and torched for easy buckets. So much good having an elite rim protector did for us during the Celtics series in 2018 and the Raptors series in 2019.