2019-2020 College/Draft thread VII (Knicks own #8 pick, 10/16 DRAFT)

[8516knicks]

Depends on the picks

Let’s say Knox gets you 25 Frank 31 and DSJR gets you 45?

Yes. I would trade all of them.

Knox for Kira/Terry/Tyrese/Poku/Theo

Frank for Bolmaro/Mannion/Smith/Ramsey

Dennis for anyone - Salary dump move.

Think you're overvaluing Knox. Knox gets u likely ZERO - if any of those are offered JUMP at it. Frank might get everyone but Ramsey, still I'd hold on to him for more unless it was Ramsey. Agree on Dennis.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Depends on the picks

Let’s say Knox gets you 25 Frank 31 and DSJR gets you 45?

Yes. I would trade all of them.

Knox for Kira/Terry/Tyrese/Poku/Theo

Frank for Bolmaro/Mannion/Smith/Ramsey

Dennis for anyone - Salary dump move.

So you think there's no hope for any of the guys we've got here with a new development team? I just it be worth it if we could package all those picks to move up into the teens but Frank is probably already a role player is it worth it to cash that in for a mystery box that you're just hoping for another role player?

[robillionaire]

personally i wouldn't do any of those trades, i don't like trading players at rock bottom value and i think there's a better chance of those guys having a strong bounce back year than the late firsts and early seconds of this draft being any good. but if we draft a PG with our first pick it might be tempting to move DSJ at some point since he would be redundant. I would prefer to keep Frank outright and give Knox a shot to work out the bugs with KP

[moocow007]

At 13 he would be a steal. The more I thought about the hiring of Payne the more I started to look at Wiseman the more I asked myself why he couldn't play the 4 along side with Mitch. From the articles I have read they have his comparison as AD lite but doesnt AD prefer to play the 4 because of his skill set. Why not take him if he is available and have Payne work with him so he can actually reach that potential since AD was coached by Payne in Kentucky. I might be wrong since there isn't a substantial amount of data to prove what type of player he will be since he didn't play much last year much like Mitch didn't play college ball at all. If we cant land any of the top two players, I'd be more than happy with Wiseman. If he were to actually drop to that range (Which I highly doubt) I would package our first round pick from the Clippers and absorb some salary to help get us in that range.

Not sure about the AD lite thing but Wiseman without question has the potential to be the best player in this draft...BY FAR. The question isn't about his physical tools or his basketball skills, it's about whether he's closer to a Michael Olowakandi or an Alonzo Mourning from a mindset standpoint. That's his realistic range which is pretty huge. You take Wiseman top of the draft and his mentality doesn't come close to matching the physical tools and basketball skills potential, you could be on the hook for drafting the next Olowakandi which will likely get you fired. I think that's the reason why folks are afraid of taking him at the top of the draft. But at 13? That's way too low IMO. My expectation is that Wiseman will go in the top 5 just based on sheer and utter physical tools and skill set potential. It's interesting that Wiseman has been so hyped that him basically him acting like any of the lesser hyped 19 year olds is actually being viewed as a negative when it should just not be a positive (him being a typical 19 year old). It's a real weird double standard that folks for whatever reason are just buying into hook, line and sinker. I still have Ball, Edwards, Wiseman and Okongwu as the 4 top guys (in no particular order) from an overall big board standpoint. All 4 of these guys have tremendous upside (people keep pidgeon holing Okongwu either hasn't watched him play or doesn't understand what he can become and instead is just assuming he's a "defensive shortish big") AND can contribute right away in some manner. Everyone else either isn't ready to contribute or doesn't have the realistic upside (or both).

Can't deny anything you're saying. It really is a crap shoot. If he does have the mentality of RJ and he was still on the board then I'd run to the podium to announce him as our pick myself. We knew nothing about Mitch or his mindset and even if he acts like a goof at times, he still has desire which you can see in his game. On the flipside you have Knox who has all the physical attributes to be great but the desire is clearly not there. Hopefully we can get some inside knowledge about him from RJ since they are really close.

I think the weaker the front office the crappier the shoot basically is. With the guys that Rose has brought in, there's a good track record of being able to ID the value guys at any draft spot so I'm very positive heading into the upcoming draft. Definitely more so in previous years.

I mean the scary thing is that the best drafting front office the Knicks have had in the nearly the past 4 decades has probably been the one lead by this man...



Part of it is that Thomas' one front office skill appeared to be drafting guys, especially guys in the 2nd half of the 1st round when it's not so obvious. But part of it is just a stark reality that the Knicks have squandered A LOT of possible avenues to correct this franchise (between trading away picks and making the wrong picks).

I think having the new regime, Thibs and Payne will help the young guys, especially the young guys that have been struggling a lot (Knox, DSJr). Let's put it this way, I don't think there will be as much wasted time as there has been in the past. Either they will be able to get the best out of all these guys or they won't, but it will be quick and to the point. Both Thibs and Payne are to the point guys with the personalities to both get a lot of respect but also to let players know that they won't take any gump. Plus having Payne who does connect real well apparently with guys that may be lost, should expedite whatever future these guys have.

So I expect finality (one way or another) with most of these guys coming sooner rather than later. And that's a good thing. Hard for a franchise to move on or know where to go if there's a lot of uncertainty and unanswered questions flying around. Either these guys will be able to handle Thibs and Payne and excel, or they won't and likely be jettisoned (no one is locked into long term deals). Then whoever remains, you move forward with under a much better front office.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Not sure about the AD lite thing but Wiseman without question has the potential to be the best player in this draft...BY FAR. The question isn't about his physical tools or his basketball skills, it's about whether he's closer to a Michael Olowakandi or an Alonzo Mourning from a mindset standpoint. That's his realistic range which is pretty huge. You take Wiseman top of the draft and his mentality doesn't come close to matching the physical tools and basketball skills potential, you could be on the hook for drafting the next Olowakandi which will likely get you fired. I think that's the reason why folks are afraid of taking him at the top of the draft. But at 13? That's way too low IMO. My expectation is that Wiseman will go in the top 5 just based on sheer and utter physical tools and skill set potential. It's interesting that Wiseman has been so hyped that him basically him acting like any of the lesser hyped 19 year olds is actually being viewed as a negative when it should just not be a positive (him being a typical 19 year old). It's a real weird double standard that folks for whatever reason are just buying into hook, line and sinker. I still have Ball, Edwards, Wiseman and Okongwu as the 4 top guys (in no particular order) from an overall big board standpoint. All 4 of these guys have tremendous upside (people keep pidgeon holing Okongwu either hasn't watched him play or doesn't understand what he can become and instead is just assuming he's a "defensive shortish big") AND can contribute right away in some manner. Everyone else either isn't ready to contribute or doesn't have the realistic upside (or both).

Can't deny anything you're saying. It really is a crap shoot. If he does have the mentality of RJ and he was still on the board then I'd run to the podium to announce him as our pick myself. We knew nothing about Mitch or his mindset and even if he acts like a goof at times, he still has desire which you can see in his game. On the flipside you have Knox who has all the physical attributes to be great but the desire is clearly not there. Hopefully we can get some inside knowledge about him from RJ since they are really close.

I think the weaker the front office the crappier the shoot basically is. With the guys that Rose has brought in, there's a good track record of being able to ID the value guys at any draft spot so I'm very positive heading into the upcoming draft. Definitely more so in previous years.

I mean the scary thing is that the best drafting front office the Knicks have had in the nearly the past 4 decades has probably been the one lead by this man...



Part of it is that Thomas' one front office skill appeared to be drafting guys, especially guys in the 2nd half of the 1st round when it's not so obvious. But part of it is just a stark reality that the Knicks have squandered A LOT of possible avenues to correct this franchise (between trading away picks and making the wrong picks).

I think having the new regime, Thibs and Payne will help the young guys, especially the young guys that have been struggling a lot (Knox, DSJr). Let's put it this way, I don't think there will be as much wasted time as there has been in the past. Either they will be able to get the best out of all these guys or they won't, but it will be quick and to the point. Both Thibs and Payne are to the point guys with the personalities to both get a lot of respect but also to let players know that they won't take any gump. Plus having Payne who does connect real well apparently with guys that may be lost, should expedite whatever future these guys have.

So I expect finality (one way or another) with most of these guys coming sooner rather than later. And that's a good thing. Hard for a franchise to move on or know where to go if there's a lot of uncertainty and unanswered questions flying around. Either these guys will be able to handle Thibs and Payne and excel, or they won't and likely be jettisoned (no one is locked into long term deals). Then whoever remains, you move forward with under a much better front office.

I agree. I think the elements for a building a sustained winner are there with Rose, Thibs and Payne. It still will take some lottery luck, something this franchise hasn't had in 35 years to accelerate the process. At the very least, I would hope they don't make any dumb trades.

[Richard4444]

Let’s say Knox gets you 25 Frank 31 and DSJR gets you 45?

Yes. I would trade all of them.

Knox for Kira/Terry/Tyrese/Poku/Theo

Frank for Bolmaro/Mannion/Smith/Ramsey

Dennis for anyone - Salary dump move.

So you think there's no hope for any of the guys we've got here with a new development team? I just it be worth it if we could package all those picks to move up into the teens but Frank is probably already a role player is it worth it to cash that in for a mystery box that you're just hoping for another role player?

Frank is an expensive role player who could demand a 7-10M/y to be extended. I would rather have a 2M mistery box. Besides, Frank is playing as a PG. We will draft a rookie PG (top10 or late FRP) and sign a vet PG in FA. Probably, we will run out of rotation spots to play Frank.

[thebuzzardman]

Yes. I would trade all of them.

Knox for Kira/Terry/Tyrese/Poku/Theo

Frank for Bolmaro/Mannion/Smith/Ramsey

Dennis for anyone - Salary dump move.

So you think there's no hope for any of the guys we've got here with a new development team? I just it be worth it if we could package all those picks to move up into the teens but Frank is probably already a role player is it worth it to cash that in for a mystery box that you're just hoping for another role player?

Frank is an expensive role player who could demand a 7-10M/y to be extended. I would rather have a 2M mistery box. Besides, Frank is playing as a PG. We will draft a rookie PG (top10 or late FRP) and a vet PG. Probably, we will run out of rotation spots to play Frank.

Or Frank is the "vet" PG. At least this year.

[Richard4444]

So you think there's no hope for any of the guys we've got here with a new development team? I just it be worth it if we could package all those picks to move up into the teens but Frank is probably already a role player is it worth it to cash that in for a mystery box that you're just hoping for another role player?

Frank is an expensive role player who could demand a 7-10M/y to be extended. I would rather have a 2M mistery box. Besides, Frank is playing as a PG. We will draft a rookie PG (top10 or late FRP) and a vet PG. Probably, we will run out of rotation spots to play Frank.

Or Frank is the "vet" PG. At least this year.

I would rather have a self-taught rookie PG than Frank as a mentor.

[jvsimonetti0514]

personally i wouldn't do any of those trades, i don't like trading players at rock bottom value and i think there's a better chance of those guys having a strong bounce back year than the late firsts and early seconds of this draft being any good. but if we draft a PG with our first pick it might be tempting to move DSJ at some point since he would be redundant. I would prefer to keep Frank outright and give Knox a shot to work out the bugs with KP

I think the only one I'd consider is Knox. Like if you think he's going to bust and you might be able to get an asset out of it do it. He's rarely had good moments in on the court

[Richard4444]

Let’s say Knox gets you 25 Frank 31 and DSJR gets you 45?

Yes. I would trade all of them.

Knox for Kira/Terry/Tyrese/Poku/Theo

Frank for Bolmaro/Mannion/Smith/Ramsey

Dennis for anyone - Salary dump move.

Think you're overvaluing Knox. Knox gets u likely ZERO - if any of those are offered JUMP at it. Frank might get everyone but Ramsey, still I'd hold on to him for more unless it was Ramsey. Agree on Dennis.

I agree. Luckily, we get a second-rounder for Knox. I would trade him for cap space.

[HarthorneWingo]

Not sure about the AD lite thing but Wiseman without question has the potential to be the best player in this draft...BY FAR. The question isn't about his physical tools or his basketball skills, it's about whether he's closer to a Michael Olowakandi or an Alonzo Mourning from a mindset standpoint. That's his realistic range which is pretty huge. You take Wiseman top of the draft and his mentality doesn't come close to matching the physical tools and basketball skills potential, you could be on the hook for drafting the next Olowakandi which will likely get you fired. I think that's the reason why folks are afraid of taking him at the top of the draft. But at 13? That's way too low IMO. My expectation is that Wiseman will go in the top 5 just based on sheer and utter physical tools and skill set potential. It's interesting that Wiseman has been so hyped that him basically him acting like any of the lesser hyped 19 year olds is actually being viewed as a negative when it should just not be a positive (him being a typical 19 year old). It's a real weird double standard that folks for whatever reason are just buying into hook, line and sinker. I still have Ball, Edwards, Wiseman and Okongwu as the 4 top guys (in no particular order) from an overall big board standpoint. All 4 of these guys have tremendous upside (people keep pidgeon holing Okongwu either hasn't watched him play or doesn't understand what he can become and instead is just assuming he's a "defensive shortish big") AND can contribute right away in some manner. Everyone else either isn't ready to contribute or doesn't have the realistic upside (or both).

Can't deny anything you're saying. It really is a crap shoot. If he does have the mentality of RJ and he was still on the board then I'd run to the podium to announce him as our pick myself. We knew nothing about Mitch or his mindset and even if he acts like a goof at times, he still has desire which you can see in his game. On the flipside you have Knox who has all the physical attributes to be great but the desire is clearly not there. Hopefully we can get some inside knowledge about him from RJ since they are really close.

I think the weaker the front office the crappier the shoot basically is. With the guys that Rose has brought in, there's a good track record of being able to ID the value guys at any draft spot so I'm very positive heading into the upcoming draft. Definitely more so in previous years.

I mean the scary thing is that the best drafting front office the Knicks have had in the nearly the past 4 decades has probably been the one lead by this man...



Part of it is that Thomas' one front office skill appeared to be drafting guys, especially guys in the 2nd half of the 1st round when it's not so obvious. But part of it is just a stark reality that the Knicks have squandered A LOT of possible avenues to correct this franchise (between trading away picks and making the wrong picks).

I think having the new regime, Thibs and Payne will help the young guys, especially the young guys that have been struggling a lot (Knox, DSJr). Let's put it this way, I don't think there will be as much wasted time as there has been in the past. Either they will be able to get the best out of all these guys or they won't, but it will be quick and to the point. Both Thibs and Payne are to the point guys with the personalities to both get a lot of respect but also to let players know that they won't take any gump. Plus having Payne who does connect real well apparently with guys that may be lost, should expedite whatever future these guys have.

So I expect finality (one way or another) with most of these guys coming sooner rather than later. And that's a good thing. Hard for a franchise to move on or know where to go if there's a lot of uncertainty and unanswered questions flying around. Either these guys will be able to handle Thibs and Payne and excel, or they won't and likely be jettisoned (no one is locked into long term deals). Then whoever remains, you move forward with under a much better front office.

Isiah definitely had an eye for drafting. I never had a problem with hiring him as a consultant for the draft. Just don't hire him as an employee with power.

[knickstape4ever]

Thoughts on taking on Al-Farouq Aminu's contract (2 more years ~20M) to get #15?

Orlando has the 8th highest payroll in 2020, had to lay off employees, and still have to sign their 2019 1st rounder, Chuma Okeke

[Richard4444]

Thoughts on taking on Al-Farouq Aminu's contract (2 more years ~20M) to get #15?

Orlando has the 8th highest payroll in 2020, had to lay off employees, and still have to sign their 2019 1st rounder, Chuma Okeke

A good deal to me.

[moocow007]

Can't deny anything you're saying. It really is a crap shoot. If he does have the mentality of RJ and he was still on the board then I'd run to the podium to announce him as our pick myself. We knew nothing about Mitch or his mindset and even if he acts like a goof at times, he still has desire which you can see in his game. On the flipside you have Knox who has all the physical attributes to be great but the desire is clearly not there. Hopefully we can get some inside knowledge about him from RJ since they are really close.

I think the weaker the front office the crappier the shoot basically is. With the guys that Rose has brought in, there's a good track record of being able to ID the value guys at any draft spot so I'm very positive heading into the upcoming draft. Definitely more so in previous years.

I mean the scary thing is that the best drafting front office the Knicks have had in the nearly the past 4 decades has probably been the one lead by this man...



Part of it is that Thomas' one front office skill appeared to be drafting guys, especially guys in the 2nd half of the 1st round when it's not so obvious. But part of it is just a stark reality that the Knicks have squandered A LOT of possible avenues to correct this franchise (between trading away picks and making the wrong picks).

I think having the new regime, Thibs and Payne will help the young guys, especially the young guys that have been struggling a lot (Knox, DSJr). Let's put it this way, I don't think there will be as much wasted time as there has been in the past. Either they will be able to get the best out of all these guys or they won't, but it will be quick and to the point. Both Thibs and Payne are to the point guys with the personalities to both get a lot of respect but also to let players know that they won't take any gump. Plus having Payne who does connect real well apparently with guys that may be lost, should expedite whatever future these guys have.

So I expect finality (one way or another) with most of these guys coming sooner rather than later. And that's a good thing. Hard for a franchise to move on or know where to go if there's a lot of uncertainty and unanswered questions flying around. Either these guys will be able to handle Thibs and Payne and excel, or they won't and likely be jettisoned (no one is locked into long term deals). Then whoever remains, you move forward with under a much better front office.

Isiah definitely had an eye for drafting. I never had a problem with hiring him as a consultant for the draft. Just don't hire him as an employee with power.

Exactly.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[robillionaire]

Thoughts on taking on Al-Farouq Aminu's contract (2 more years ~20M) to get #15?

Orlando has the 8th highest payroll in 2020, had to lay off employees, and still have to sign their 2019 1st rounder, Chuma Okeke

Yeah I'd do it. I actually like Aminu as a role player too. He hustles. At least he used to before this current knee injury. Maybe he's done. Either way there will be a compelling talent on the board at 15. I really don't think they'd just salary dump the 15th pick though.

[knickstape4ever]

Thoughts on taking on Al-Farouq Aminu's contract (2 more years ~20M) to get #15?

Orlando has the 8th highest payroll in 2020, had to lay off employees, and still have to sign their 2019 1st rounder, Chuma Okeke

A good deal to me.

it's the type of move the FO should be looking at

76ers now officially own OKC's 2020 1st, and are well above the luxury tax (4th tax threshold, $3.25 tax rate). that pick (either 23 or 24) could be on the market

[knickstape4ever]

Thoughts on taking on Al-Farouq Aminu's contract (2 more years ~20M) to get #15?

Orlando has the 8th highest payroll in 2020, had to lay off employees, and still have to sign their 2019 1st rounder, Chuma Okeke

Yeah I'd do it. I actually like Aminu as a role player too. He hustles. At least he used to before this current knee injury. Maybe he's done. Either way there will be a compelling talent on the board at 15. I really don't think they'd just salary dump the 15th pick though.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29544380/nba-owners-current-financial-turmoil-portends-future-payroll-problems

As they face what some expect to be tens of millions per franchise in losses next season, some teams might have to slash payroll, perhaps trading players or electing not to aggressively pursue free agents. Others might offload draft picks.

"I suspect first-round picks will be for sale in this draft," one team executive said. "We haven't really seen that in a decade."

I think due to the circumstances of Covid, 1st round picks will be more available than ever in salary dump situations, and we're in a prime position to take advantage being 1 of the few teams w/ cap space

I think the Magic are a possibility because they have the 8th highest payroll and they're an 8 seed at best. ownership might not want to pay that much $ for middling results, + they are set to sign their 2019 1st rounder, so that will raise their cap commitments. with a 2020 1st rounder too, they'd be awfully close to the luxury tax

[Richard4444]

Kings and Wolves are team that may have payroll problems too. Their payroll should reach 130M and they suck (for now).

Sacramento owe 98M to 9 players. They have still to sign the 11 pick and resign Bogdan (who will get around 20M) and Bazemore.

Minnesota owe 94M. They have to sign Top8 pick and the #14/15 pick and re-sign Malik and Juancho.

Also, there are many teams with luxury tax problems with projected payroll around 160M, like GSW, Nets, Celtics and Sixers.

[bleedblue3303]

Was just thinking of something. Not sure where to put this so putting it here. Who is the Kenny Payne of Duke? Why not add them to the staff. We really would have the advantage on free agents and draft picks if we got the Kenny Payne of Duke to add to the team with Kentucky’s Kenny Payne.

[knickstape4ever]

Kings and Wolves are team that may have payroll problems too. Their payroll should reach 130M and they suck (for now).

Sacramento owe 98M to 9 players. They have still to sign the 11 pick and resign Bogdan (who will get around 20M) and Bazemore.

Minnesota owe 94M. They have to sign Top8 pick and the #14/15 pick and re-sign Malik and Juancho.

Also, there are many teams with luxury tax problems with projected payroll around 160M, like GSW, Nets, Celtics and Sixers.

Maybe the Kings decide they can only keep 1 of Bodganovic and Hield. I would take either one

I've been proposing sending #27 and Randle to Minnesota for #17 and Johnson. but do you think they'd trade #17 w/ Johnson so that they dont go well above the cap re-signing Beasley (who I'd sign to an offer sheet) and Hernangomez?