2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

No Bolmero until 2023 ???

[Mr Puddles]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

No Bolmero until 2023 ???

Never heard of the guy before, but a South American who's name is Leandro B.?

Sign me up!

[Mr Puddles]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

"Mainstream math"

As to your question, I have nearly as much confidence in the 31st pick as the 1st this year so I'd trade down, down, down, picking up future FRPs along the way. Thinking long-term with this group.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

No Bolmero until 2023 ???

Never heard of the guy before, but a South American who's name is Leandro B.?

Sign me up!

Bolmero is a tremendous passer, And a pretty tenacious defender at 6'7-6'8. The only problem with him is that his shooting is pretty bad! Like Ben Simmons/ last season Rubio bad.

[RedIndian]

Yeah Bolmaro is a bad shooter, and not a great ball handler either.

If we land top 4, it'll be a conundrum on who to take.

Of the PGs, Hayes and Haliburton are both good options, but I wonder how Payne's play will impact that decision. Worth considering that 8 games is a very small sample size, and Payne was basically playing for his future in the NBA. Tyler Johnson also looked very good over a short period last year, before looking absolutely awful this year. That's my fear with Payne as well.

I would avoid Toppin simply because he doesn't play defense, and I think we just need to steer clear of such players.

I absolutely love Okongwu and would seriously consider him despite Ayton as I think he could play both 4/5. Ayton, Okongwu, Saric would be a very nice bigman rotation.

[Qwigglez]

What's the best site to get a good mock draft?

[Ghost of Kleine]

What's the best site to get a good mock draft?

Currently, Since Draft Express became an ESPN pay site, It's now likely Tankathon. Then maybe the Ringer, And then NBA draftroom.com. Of course all will be best guess until after the lottery!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Yeah Bolmaro is a bad shooter, and not a great ball handler either.

If we land top 4, it'll be a conundrum on who to take.

Of the PGs, Hayes and Haliburton are both good options, but I wonder how Payne's play will impact that decision. Worth considering that 8 games is a very small sample size, and Payne was basically playing for his future in the NBA. Tyler Johnson also looked very good over a short period last year, before looking absolutely awful this year. That's my fear with Payne as well.

I would avoid Toppin simply because he doesn't play defense, and I think we just need to steer clear of such players.

I absolutely love Okongwu and would seriously consider him despite Ayton as I think he could play both 4/5. Ayton, Okongwu, Saric would be a very nice bigman rotation.

If we're looking at value, bigs are basement bargains pretty much wherever you're at in the draft.

Sorry bw, but I'm changing my vote to Okongwu. I've now gone LaMelo-->Toppin-->Okongwu. I just can't deny the appeal of this vision. Give me a 5/4 who is physical and defends, someone to rotate with Deandre and Saric. Maybe Baynes is that guy next season, but the way I feel right now, I'd feel better about pushing him out of the rotation than I would Carter or Payne.

Whomever we would take with a #1 pick, you're pushing someone out.

[bwgood77]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I'll take Toppin. I think he has a very rare offensive skill set for a PF. He looks like Amare finishing with no fear but also has great vision to pass and is a 39% 3 pt shooter so he is plug and play already..superb at the pick and roll....particularly he would be a dynamic reserve 4/5 that would bolster the entire second unit stretching the floor, finishing, and passing....I think he has very high upside too.

His improvement between his Freshman and Sophomore year is so rare that it shows extreme work ethic and it is rare that one player can elevate a smaller school team like Dayton to #5 in the country, with a very long winning streak. Reminds me a bit of how Ja just came out of nowhere his second season for a small market, but Toppin obviously did it to a much larger extent, making his team near unbeatable with his overall impact.

He won all the awards as a sophomore as best college player but was also about winning...his team won. I don't see too many PFs in the NBA with his offensive skillset at all.

I think he is the most sure thing as an impact player in a draft full of question marks and potential busts. He has work on the defensive end but with his proven work ethic showing his drastic improvement over the last year, I'm not nearly as concerned as most are there. If there were a lot of other proven players in this draft I would put more weight on it, but most of the other players at the top have all sorts of huge weaknesses.

As for Okongwu, he's a decent college shot blocker at 6'9 and a good defender, like maybe a Mitchell Robinson type without the size, so his NBA impact there will be a lot more limited. He has zero range....2/3 of his shots were at the rim. and he shot 43% from Short MR and 30% from L MR...nothing really other than that.

He's probably like a Capela type, which is fine, but with Ayton, I don't see him being a very good fit. He doesn't really have modern day skills to be too impactful overall. Capela also has a 7'5 wingspan where I think Okongwu's is only 7'1. I think he could only play C's, maybe not be a guy that can switch well, and is not really quite big enough to be a last line of defense.

Shot chart.



As for the point guards, I just worry about how none of them are really proven outside of Halliburton...they are all raw prospects. None of them outside of Halliburon can hit a 3.

I do like Deni Avdija. In some ways I like him as much as Toppin, but do feel he isn't as sure of a thing. I do like Vassell a lot, but top 4 does seem high.

The 4 I am most comfortable with though are Toppin, Avdija, Vassell and Halliburton.

Sure some others might have higher upside given they are raw prospects, but they could be busts and as we know it's a crapshoot.

I think a guy like Okongwu though has limited upside on impact. He might be a great defensive PF reserve, that you really can only utilize as a small ball C because of the limited range, but his lack of passing and shooting hurts. The NBA today thrives on playmakers and shooters..

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I'll take Toppin. I think he has a very rare offensive skill set for a PF. He looks like Amare finishing with no fear but also has great vision to pass and is a 39% 3 pt shooter so he is plug and play already..superb at the pick and roll....particularly he would be a dynamic reserve 4/5 that would bolster the entire second unit stretching the floor, finishing, and passing....I think he has very high upside too.

His improvement between his Freshman and Sophomore year is so rare that it shows extreme work ethic and it is rare that one player can elevate a smaller school team like Dayton to #5 in the country, with a very long winning streak. Reminds me a bit of how Ja just came out of nowhere his second season for a small market, but Toppin obviously did it to a much larger extent, making his team near unbeatable with his overall impact.

He won all the awards as a sophomore as best college player but was also about winning...his team won. I don't see too many PFs in the NBA with his offensive skillset at all.

I think he is the most sure thing as an impact player in a draft full of question marks and potential busts. He has work on the defensive end but with his proven work ethic showing his drastic improvement over the last year, I'm not nearly as concerned as most are there. If there were a lot of other proven players in this draft I would put more weight on it, but most of the other players at the top have all sorts of huge weaknesses.

As for Okongwu, he's a decent college shot blocker at 6'9 and a good defender, like maybe a Mitchell Robinson type without the size, so his NBA impact there will be a lot more limited. He has zero range....2/3 of his shots were at the rim. and he shot 43% from Short MR and 30% from L MR...nothing really other than that.

He's probably like a Capela type, which is fine, but with Ayton, I don't see him being a very good fit. He doesn't really have modern day skills to be too impactful overall. Capela also has a 7'5 wingspan where I think Okongwu's is only 7'1. I think he could only play C's, maybe not be a guy that can switch well, and is not really quite big enough to be a last line of defense.

Shot chart.



As for the point guards, I just worry about how none of them are really proven outside of Halliburton...they are all raw prospects. None of them outside of Halliburon can hit a 3.

I do like Deni Avdija. In some ways I like him as much as Toppin, but do feel he isn't as sure of a thing. I do like Vassell a lot, but top 4 does seem high.

The 4 I am most comfortable with though are Toppin, Avdija, Vassell and Halliburton.

Sure some others might have higher upside given they are raw prospects, but they could be busts and as we know it's a crapshoot.

I think a guy like Okongwu though has limited upside on impact. He might be a great defensive PF reserve, that you really can only utilize as a small ball C because of the limited range, but his lack of passing and shooting hurts. The NBA today thrives on playmakers and shooters..

I agree with much of what you say, but not your description of Okongwu on offense. You're right, he has no range. But he's young, and he strikes me as a mature guy with the right mindset (though it really is hard to know from a distance). So it won't surprise if he develops a shot (most pros do, to some extent, though less often with bigs), especially when you consider that his FT% is respectable (72%).

I don't think Capela's a good comp. Adebayo is closer, but Okongwu is far more aggressive attacking the basket than either of those guys. He dives like a bull to the basket every chance he gets. That said, Toppin's even better than him on offense, and I'm confident that will be true at the pro level, as well. But Okongwu can play the 5 on defense, rebound and block shots. Toppin's D is questionable at any position, though I agree with you again that it's likely he'll improve on that end. How much? Not sure. Personally, I doubt that he'll ever be a good defender, but he's smart, so... maybe? If he's good enough offensively, how much will it matter?

You should never daydream on draft night, but the daydreamer in me would like another rim protector in the rotation, someone physical. But hey, a big who dunks would be a nice addition as well, amirite?

In just a few short days we'll know if this is even a conversation worth having!

[bwgood77]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I'll take Toppin. I think he has a very rare offensive skill set for a PF. He looks like Amare finishing with no fear but also has great vision to pass and is a 39% 3 pt shooter so he is plug and play already..superb at the pick and roll....particularly he would be a dynamic reserve 4/5 that would bolster the entire second unit stretching the floor, finishing, and passing....I think he has very high upside too.

His improvement between his Freshman and Sophomore year is so rare that it shows extreme work ethic and it is rare that one player can elevate a smaller school team like Dayton to #5 in the country, with a very long winning streak. Reminds me a bit of how Ja just came out of nowhere his second season for a small market, but Toppin obviously did it to a much larger extent, making his team near unbeatable with his overall impact.

He won all the awards as a sophomore as best college player but was also about winning...his team won. I don't see too many PFs in the NBA with his offensive skillset at all.

I think he is the most sure thing as an impact player in a draft full of question marks and potential busts. He has work on the defensive end but with his proven work ethic showing his drastic improvement over the last year, I'm not nearly as concerned as most are there. If there were a lot of other proven players in this draft I would put more weight on it, but most of the other players at the top have all sorts of huge weaknesses.

As for Okongwu, he's a decent college shot blocker at 6'9 and a good defender, like maybe a Mitchell Robinson type without the size, so his NBA impact there will be a lot more limited. He has zero range....2/3 of his shots were at the rim. and he shot 43% from Short MR and 30% from L MR...nothing really other than that.

He's probably like a Capela type, which is fine, but with Ayton, I don't see him being a very good fit. He doesn't really have modern day skills to be too impactful overall. Capela also has a 7'5 wingspan where I think Okongwu's is only 7'1. I think he could only play C's, maybe not be a guy that can switch well, and is not really quite big enough to be a last line of defense.

Shot chart.



As for the point guards, I just worry about how none of them are really proven outside of Halliburton...they are all raw prospects. None of them outside of Halliburon can hit a 3.

I do like Deni Avdija. In some ways I like him as much as Toppin, but do feel he isn't as sure of a thing. I do like Vassell a lot, but top 4 does seem high.

The 4 I am most comfortable with though are Toppin, Avdija, Vassell and Halliburton.

Sure some others might have higher upside given they are raw prospects, but they could be busts and as we know it's a crapshoot.

I think a guy like Okongwu though has limited upside on impact. He might be a great defensive PF reserve, that you really can only utilize as a small ball C because of the limited range, but his lack of passing and shooting hurts. The NBA today thrives on playmakers and shooters..

I agree with much of what you say, but not your description of Okongwu on offense. You're right, he has no range. But he's young, and he strikes me as a mature guy with the right mindset (though it really is hard to know from a distance). So it won't surprise if he develops a shot (most pros do, to some extent, though less often with bigs), especially when you consider that his FT% is respectable (72%).

I don't think Capela's a good comp. Adebayo is closer, but Okongwu is far more aggressive attacking the basket than either of those guys. He dives like a bull to the basket every chance he gets. That said, Toppin's even better than him on offense, and I'm confident that will be true at the pro level, as well. But Okongwu can play the 5 on defense, rebound and block shots. Toppin's D is questionable at any position, though I agree with you again that it's likely he'll improve on that end. How much? Not sure. Personally, I doubt that he'll ever be a good defender, but he's smart, so... maybe? If he's good enough offensively, how much will it matter?

You should never daydream on draft night, but the daydreamer in me would like another rim protector in the rotation, someone physical. But hey, a big who dunks would be a nice addition as well, amirite?

In just a few short days we'll know if this is even a conversation worth having!

Toppin does still block some shots and get some steals so it's not like he isn't active. He just mostly has trouble staying in front of smaller players and has too much of an upright stance.

I don't think Bam is a good comp for Okongwu...at least not what Bam has turned into as a pro. Bam's greatest strength is his passing. Now while that wasn't a strength or something he did in college, that doesn't mean just because he became a great point center at times, I don't see Okongwu as anything like that. Okongwu is strictly a defensive 4, diver/finisher, but he might have trouble switching on smaller guys as well and doesn't have the size to play C against big Cs. He basically might be a nice small ball 5. I don't see much versatility on either side. More defensively, but not offensively. That being said, he's young, so maybe in a couple years, he blossoms.

I think Toppin will be hard to stop on offense. If he was playing with a guy like Nash, I think he'd have a pick and roll game like Amare...but he can shoot, drive by people, dish, finish, whatever. While I know people picked apart Amare on defense at times, and he wasn't a guy that stayed in front of everyone, I never thought after drafting him that I really don't like the pick because his defense isn't all that great. I think you really have to utilize and amplify and take advantage of a guys strengths, and minimize their weaknesses by playing them with the right personnel. I think with our versatility, we can hide Toppin's weaknesses moreso than Okongwu's. Okongwu would be very hard to play with Ayton on offense, and Ayton needs to play a lot of minutes. Unless you want Ayton just hanging around the perimeter on offense.

Toppin could light up bench units and fit in with anyone in our lineup as well. Now the one problem that could be pointed out, is that if Ayton's help D doesn't continue to improve, they would be bad together, however, it's not like Saric, Cam or Oubre are great defenders either but our team is ranking on that side as a whole right now.

But I probably don't need to spend too much time talking about it. Seeing what Jones has picked, I will actually be pretty shocked if Okongwu is the pick, unless he was somehow there at 10....but I just don't think it will be a guy he has his eye on. I think he will want shooters, finishers and playmakers...and I think he likes older, more nba ready guys based on last year's picks.

I know the NBA draft twitter/Stepien type group are probably not high on Toppin, picking apart that defensive issue, but I am going against the grain here.

I have a feeling some team will pick him high though. Even if we have #4, or maybe #3, I won't be shocked if Toppin is gone.

[bigfoot]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I've got an abacus and slide rule I can sell you.

[bigfoot]

You guys need to start thinking like James Jones. He's going after another 3 or 4-year college player. He'll risk second-round picks on the 18-year-olds.

[Slim Charless]

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I'll take Toppin. I think he has a very rare offensive skill set for a PF. He looks like Amare finishing with no fear but also has great vision to pass and is a 39% 3 pt shooter so he is plug and play already..superb at the pick and roll....particularly he would be a dynamic reserve 4/5 that would bolster the entire second unit stretching the floor, finishing, and passing....I think he has very high upside too.

His improvement between his Freshman and Sophomore year is so rare that it shows extreme work ethic and it is rare that one player can elevate a smaller school team like Dayton to #5 in the country, with a very long winning streak. Reminds me a bit of how Ja just came out of nowhere his second season for a small market, but Toppin obviously did it to a much larger extent, making his team near unbeatable with his overall impact.

He won all the awards as a sophomore as best college player but was also about winning...his team won. I don't see too many PFs in the NBA with his offensive skillset at all.

I think he is the most sure thing as an impact player in a draft full of question marks and potential busts. He has work on the defensive end but with his proven work ethic showing his drastic improvement over the last year, I'm not nearly as concerned as most are there. If there were a lot of other proven players in this draft I would put more weight on it, but most of the other players at the top have all sorts of huge weaknesses.

As for Okongwu, he's a decent college shot blocker at 6'9 and a good defender, like maybe a Mitchell Robinson type without the size, so his NBA impact there will be a lot more limited. He has zero range....2/3 of his shots were at the rim. and he shot 43% from Short MR and 30% from L MR...nothing really other than that.

He's probably like a Capela type, which is fine, but with Ayton, I don't see him being a very good fit. He doesn't really have modern day skills to be too impactful overall. Capela also has a 7'5 wingspan where I think Okongwu's is only 7'1. I think he could only play C's, maybe not be a guy that can switch well, and is not really quite big enough to be a last line of defense.

Shot chart.



As for the point guards, I just worry about how none of them are really proven outside of Halliburton...they are all raw prospects. None of them outside of Halliburon can hit a 3.

I do like Deni Avdija. In some ways I like him as much as Toppin, but do feel he isn't as sure of a thing. I do like Vassell a lot, but top 4 does seem high.

The 4 I am most comfortable with though are Toppin, Avdija, Vassell and Halliburton.

Sure some others might have higher upside given they are raw prospects, but they could be busts and as we know it's a crapshoot.

I think a guy like Okongwu though has limited upside on impact. He might be a great defensive PF reserve, that you really can only utilize as a small ball C because of the limited range, but his lack of passing and shooting hurts. The NBA today thrives on playmakers and shooters..

I agree with much of what you say, but not your description of Okongwu on offense. You're right, he has no range. But he's young, and he strikes me as a mature guy with the right mindset (though it really is hard to know from a distance). So it won't surprise if he develops a shot (most pros do, to some extent, though less often with bigs), especially when you consider that his FT% is respectable (72%).

I don't think Capela's a good comp. Adebayo is closer, but Okongwu is far more aggressive attacking the basket than either of those guys. He dives like a bull to the basket every chance he gets. That said, Toppin's even better than him on offense, and I'm confident that will be true at the pro level, as well. But Okongwu can play the 5 on defense, rebound and block shots. Toppin's D is questionable at any position, though I agree with you again that it's likely he'll improve on that end. How much? Not sure. Personally, I doubt that he'll ever be a good defender, but he's smart, so... maybe? If he's good enough offensively, how much will it matter?

You should never daydream on draft night, but the daydreamer in me would like another rim protector in the rotation, someone physical. But hey, a big who dunks would be a nice addition as well, amirite?

In just a few short days we'll know if this is even a conversation worth having!

It's a tough call but I'd say if we jumped into the top 4 then Toppin would be my choice, just because of the ability to strech out more then Okgongwu. In theory we should have a pretty good defensive frontcourt on our hands with Bridges and Ayton. Toppin's ability to bring out opposing 4s will help Ayton a lot and his defensive weaknesses won't be as bad with the other 2 guys he plays with. Now Cam has done a great job in the bubble but it remains to be seen if he can put up a whole season worth of banging with bigger dudes. Toppin has been playing that spot his whole career and came away with tons of awards for his play.

I haven't seen others bring up is his age and how he's a lot more advanced then others in this class. We appear to be further along the path then any of us figured so getting players that are more ready to play right now is better then shooting our shot on some guy who needs years to be productive on a playoff team. Also, Toppin as a soph had guys going at him every night and still produced. He was playing in a "lesser" conference but still.

I'd also say that IF we actually did jump up that high then the first move JJ needs to make is call up Philly and see what it would take to grab Simmons. Philly can't be happy about how this year went and if they're gonna be talked out of him, this is the time as he's probably at his all time low in value. Him, at the 3/4 would look great with Cam, Ayton, and Booker. Paynes/Carter tag-team at point is fine since Simmons would be handling all the play making duties anyway. I think Bridges, Rubio, that (top 4) 1st and another future first might get it done if they were actually gonna make a move.

[Wilber85]

Give me RJ Hampton . Have him behind Carter as back up 2. I think he can be a combo guard and guard 1-3

[bwgood77]

You guys need to start thinking like James Jones. He's going after another 3 or 4-year college player. He'll risk second-round picks on the 18-year-olds.

That's one reason I think he'd like Toppin. He has only played two years but has been there 3..and is a redshirt sophomore, so he's worked with the team for 3 years.

[bwgood77]

It's a tough call but I'd say if we jumped into the top 4 then Toppin would be my choice, just because of the ability to strech out more then Okgongwu. In theory we should have a pretty good defensive frontcourt on our hands with Bridges and Ayton. Toppin's ability to bring out opposing 4s will help Ayton a lot and his defensive weaknesses won't be as bad with the other 2 guys he plays with. Now Cam has done a great job in the bubble but it remains to be seen if he can put up a whole season worth of banging with bigger dudes. Toppin has been playing that spot his whole career and came away with tons of awards for his play.

I haven't seen others bring up is his age and how he's a lot more advanced then others in this class. We appear to be further along the path then any of us figured so getting players that are more ready to play right now is better then shooting our shot on some guy who needs years to be productive on a playoff team. Also, Toppin as a soph had guys going at him every night and still produced. He was playing in a "lesser" conference but still.

I'd also say that IF we actually did jump up that high then the first move JJ needs to make is call up Philly and see what it would take to grab Simmons. Philly can't be happy about how this year went and if they're gonna be talked out of him, this is the time as he's probably at his all time low in value. Him, at the 3/4 would look great with Cam, Ayton, and Booker. Paynes/Carter tag-team at point is fine since Simmons would be handling all the play making duties anyway. I think Bridges, Rubio, that (top 4) 1st and another future first might get it done if they were actually gonna make a move.

I was reading your post when you got to the Simmons part thinking "I'm not sure Simmons is a good fit with this..you really need 3 pt shooters around Ayton (hoping Ayton starts finishing strong inside)".....but then when you go to the Rubio, Bridges, pick and another pick for him, no way. I can't even think of a trade package I could come up with that they might consider. I think they liked Saric, so if somehow it could be had for Saric, Oubre and a pick, maybe, but then that leaves you with him and Rubio. Of course it makes sense for Rubio to be in the deal (and Saric really can't with another player I don't think..so it would have to be Rubio/Oubre/pic), but I really like Rubio and he is a real pro and had his best shooting season..works well with Booker..better than I ever would have anticipated. All those 3s Rubio doesn't hesitate on, Simmons would drive. He wouldn't be guarded out there. Booker would be doubled more. As good as Simmons is, I would probably not look into it....why mess with something that much when we FINALLY are looking really good?

[cberry78]

Spoiler:

Since defying odds is the new Suns things to do - who do you guys have in mind if we sneak into a top 4 spot? With the new lottery odds, the Suns have a 1/7 chance of landing a top 4 pick. I'm personally not someone who believes in mainstream math, so I'd say we have about a 50% shot of landing a top 4 pick: either we do, or we don't... 50/50.

Initially, I would have been in favour of drafting a PG like Hayes but with the Payne / Carter backcourt causing fear in the eyes of opponents perhaps we'll go a different route. Okungwu could be a good fit as a back-up small ball C and potential future PF. Vassell seems to be a good fit for Monty's system. Obbi Toppin fits well age-wise (like Bridges and Cam Johnson have in the past). And then there's the possibility of trading the pick like we did last year (e.g. with Boston for 14, 26 and 30)

I'll take Toppin. I think he has a very rare offensive skill set for a PF. He looks like Amare finishing with no fear but also has great vision to pass and is a 39% 3 pt shooter so he is plug and play already..superb at the pick and roll....particularly he would be a dynamic reserve 4/5 that would bolster the entire second unit stretching the floor, finishing, and passing....I think he has very high upside too.

His improvement between his Freshman and Sophomore year is so rare that it shows extreme work ethic and it is rare that one player can elevate a smaller school team like Dayton to #5 in the country, with a very long winning streak. Reminds me a bit of how Ja just came out of nowhere his second season for a small market, but Toppin obviously did it to a much larger extent, making his team near unbeatable with his overall impact.

He won all the awards as a sophomore as best college player but was also about winning...his team won. I don't see too many PFs in the NBA with his offensive skillset at all.

I think he is the most sure thing as an impact player in a draft full of question marks and potential busts. He has work on the defensive end but with his proven work ethic showing his drastic improvement over the last year, I'm not nearly as concerned as most are there. If there were a lot of other proven players in this draft I would put more weight on it, but most of the other players at the top have all sorts of huge weaknesses.

As for Okongwu, he's a decent college shot blocker at 6'9 and a good defender, like maybe a Mitchell Robinson type without the size, so his NBA impact there will be a lot more limited. He has zero range....2/3 of his shots were at the rim. and he shot 43% from Short MR and 30% from L MR...nothing really other than that.

He's probably like a Capela type, which is fine, but with Ayton, I don't see him being a very good fit. He doesn't really have modern day skills to be too impactful overall. Capela also has a 7'5 wingspan where I think Okongwu's is only 7'1. I think he could only play C's, maybe not be a guy that can switch well, and is not really quite big enough to be a last line of defense.

Shot chart.



As for the point guards, I just worry about how none of them are really proven outside of Halliburton...they are all raw prospects. None of them outside of Halliburon can hit a 3.

I do like Deni Avdija. In some ways I like him as much as Toppin, but do feel he isn't as sure of a thing. I do like Vassell a lot, but top 4 does seem high.

The 4 I am most comfortable with though are Toppin, Avdija, Vassell and Halliburton.

Sure some others might have higher upside given they are raw prospects, but they could be busts and as we know it's a crapshoot.

I think a guy like Okongwu though has limited upside on impact. He might be a great defensive PF reserve, that you really can only utilize as a small ball C because of the limited range, but his lack of passing and shooting hurts. The NBA today thrives on playmakers and shooters..

I agree with much of what you say, but not your description of Okongwu on offense. You're right, he has no range. But he's young, and he strikes me as a mature guy with the right mindset (though it really is hard to know from a distance). So it won't surprise if he develops a shot (most pros do, to some extent, though less often with bigs), especially when you consider that his FT% is respectable (72%).

I don't think Capela's a good comp. Adebayo is closer, but Okongwu is far more aggressive attacking the basket than either of those guys. He dives like a bull to the basket every chance he gets. That said, Toppin's even better than him on offense, and I'm confident that will be true at the pro level, as well. But Okongwu can play the 5 on defense, rebound and block shots. Toppin's D is questionable at any position, though I agree with you again that it's likely he'll improve on that end. How much? Not sure. Personally, I doubt that he'll ever be a good defender, but he's smart, so... maybe? If he's good enough offensively, how much will it matter?

You should never daydream on draft night, but the daydreamer in me would like another rim protector in the rotation, someone physical. But hey, a big who dunks would be a nice addition as well, amirite?

In just a few short days we'll know if this is even a conversation worth having!

If we were to draft Toppin (or Okongwu), what happens to our roster at that point? What do we do with Cam, KO, Saric? I guess the same can be said if we draft a PG - what happens to our guard lineup then?