Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

[zaymon]

Killian Hayes mades a lot of sense for us but it will be hard to aquire him the way lottery gone. He fits on defense with his size and length. He can play inside out. He can play next to Fultz or lead our bench making life easier for Bamba and Ross.

[basketballRob]

I still wouldn't mind trading AG to Phoenix for Oubre and swap picks. Only if we could get Okoro, i think he might be the best player in the draft.

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[The Effect]

That is my thought as well when I offer Vassell (or others). These guys can fit what we are doing and fill a need. They can add value and improve our team. Just because a super star is not available does not mean you have sit on your hands and do nothing.

... at the same time, it doesn’t mean we should force the issue and take back that Wiggins deal.


** I’m also on board with Anthony / Lewis at #15 and buying a late pick pick for a SG or wing. This is another strategy If we think there is another NAW type situation.

Then we would be stupid to trade up, especially for Vassell
He would do nothing to move the needle for this team

Id take my chance with a potential scorer than another defender with no offense. We have enough of those guys.
Thats Frazier, people forget that frazier was a 39% 3pt shooter in college on the same amount of attempts of vessell, and averaged more PPG, RPG and steals.....and was considered one of the best defenders in the draft.
Same with iwundu. 37% 3pt shooter, 13ppg, top defender etc

Vassell is a role player, hes mikal bridges. FIne for a role, but not someone you trade up for, and not someone you add to a team with zero scorers

Give me the offensive potential of a Cole anthony, RJ Hampton, Maxey, Kira Lewis, Nesmith, ramsey, terry etc over another defender who cant do anything offensively

Leonard Hamilton is a Cliff type coach. He doesn’t highlight players. No one player is going to shine in his system. If your argument about an FSU player is based on stats then you don’t have an argument.

Vassell isn’t a top tier playmaker but given more shots he can be a difference maker as he actually makes shots! I like that combo as Fultz really needs the ball in his hands to be effective where as other names you mentioned would require the ball more and give us a Fultz / DJ scenario which has not worked so far.

Unless you can convince us one of those names is the next Kobe, I’ll take an NBA ready talent who can contribute on day 1 and pairs well with Fultz.

It has nothing to do with stats, it has to with his inability to create for himself and seems almost clueless when he tries. He has no offensive game except for catch and shoot. thats it. He cant beat his guy off the dribble, he cant post, basically he cant do anything useful except catch and shoot. Like i keep saying, hes Mikal Bridges except bridges might be a better creator.

Vassell does nothing that Iwundu cant and wes is a much better ball handler

Sorry, i wouldnt take vassell at 15, let alone trading up for a guy who is going to stand in the corner on offense and wait for the ball, those guys are a dime a dozen in the the 2020 nba.

[MagicFan101]

Honestly, I have not watched a single minute of tape on Killian Hayes.

... Until now.

ME LIKE!!

We laugh at the fallacy of overreaching on length (pun intended) by WeHam but when it comes with talent this isn’t a bad thing. Hayes seems to have some smoothness to his game. He isn’t the athlete Giannis is or other unicorns are which is why he isn’t targeted for the #1 pick but he could be a very nice player for what we are building.

The drawback is a Hayes pick likely does not work next to Fultz unless Markelle drastically picks up his 3-pt shooting ... overnight.

[jonbob17]

I like Hayes, if he is there at 10, maybe there is a deal to be made with Phoenix. I am curious to see what he turns into.

[Skybox]

I like Hayes, if he is there at 10, maybe there is a deal to be made with Phoenix. I am curious to see what he turns into.

Having said that, wouldn't he be exactly what PHO needs?

[Knightro]

Honestly, I have not watched a single minute of tape on Killian Hayes.

... Until now.

ME LIKE!!

We laugh at the fallacy of overreaching on length (pun intended) by WeHam but when it comes with talent this isn’t a bad thing. Hayes seems to have some smoothness to his game. He isn’t the athlete Giannis is or other unicorns are which is why he isn’t targeted for the #1 pick but he could be a very nice player for what we are building.

The drawback is a Hayes pick likely does not work next to Fultz unless Markelle drastically picks up his 3-pt shooting ... overnight.

The Magic should not let draft and/or trade and/or free agency decisions be impacted by any player currently on the roster including Fultz.

If they think Killian Hayes can be a high end lead guard, then they should pick him and worry about the fit with Fultz later.

And if it turns out they don't fit, then adios to Fultz.

[MagicFan101]

Honestly, I have not watched a single minute of tape on Killian Hayes.

... Until now.

ME LIKE!!

We laugh at the fallacy of overreaching on length (pun intended) by WeHam but when it comes with talent this isn’t a bad thing. Hayes seems to have some smoothness to his game. He isn’t the athlete Giannis is or other unicorns are which is why he isn’t targeted for the #1 pick but he could be a very nice player for what we are building.

The drawback is a Hayes pick likely does not work next to Fultz unless Markelle drastically picks up his 3-pt shooting ... overnight.

The Magic should not let draft and/or trade and/or free agency decisions be impacted by any player currently on the roster including Fultz.

If they think Killian Hayes can be a high end lead guard, then they should pick him and worry about the fit with Fultz later.

And if it they don't fit, then adios to Fultz.

Oh, I agree. As much as I hope Fultz can be the guy, if someone better comes along my loyalty is to the team first.


The key detail is the cost to move up to get a player. If we have to gut assets to get a player who ultimately doesn’t work next to Fultz and himself isn’t a franchise talent ... is the net result worth it?

So you do have to measure these things.

[Skin]

Who believes WeHam would ever trade up in the draft for someone we need?

[jonbob17]

I like Hayes, if he is there at 10, maybe there is a deal to be made with Phoenix. I am curious to see what he turns into.

Having said that, wouldn't he be exactly what PHO needs?

I don't know exactly what Phoenix needs. Next year I would say a 4, but yeah long term they should probably be looking at a guard. Rubio was very good this year.

[Bensational]

For me, there's no one really worth paying the price to move up in the draft for. My big board, including the lottery, is starting like this:

Pokusevki
Avdija
Lewis
Terry
Ball


Avdija is the safer pick, but there's something about the smoothness of Pok's handles and his passing that just feel like something potentially elite and uncommon. That edge that have allowed Jokic and Embiid to separate themselves by being on the ball from the perimeter. He also seems to love getting after it on defense, too. The bonus is that he's likely to go anywhere from the mid-1st onwards, and I feel like a pick in this range will be available and affordable.

In the short term, Avdija will have more success though. A big, playmaking wing with good vision, passing and range. For us, he could probably inherit all of Fournier's plays and do better because he will likely spot all of the other passing options available on the court. He's one prospect who looks like he could unite a lot of our pieces as a playmaker.

Lewis seems like the crafty kind of guy who will carve out a strong career. A floor of Darren Collison/Darrell Armstrong, potential ceiling somewhere in the spectrum of Fox/Thomas. He's experienced for his age, has shown big growth at the college level, big shooter potential, crafty playmaker. Gets in lanes on defense.

Terry is your all-in offensive gamble. If it pays off, you could have the next Trey/Curry. Even his floor seems Seth Curry safe, with his pull up deep shooting potential. He will be a Trey-esque liability on defense, though.

Ball has a lot of talent, but I just don't know about the heart and IQ. I'd be interested to know if Lonzo's experience has humbled his expectations or not. The reason he's this low is because it's relative to the cost to acquire him.



There are other names that are right in the mix just below these guys, I just haven't ordered them yet. Maxxey/Rahmsey/Anthony/etc.

[Knightro]

Oh, I agree. As much as I hope Fultz can be the guy, if someone better comes along my loyalty is to the team first.


The key detail is the cost to move up to get a player. If we have to gut assets to get a player who ultimately doesn’t work next to Fultz and himself isn’t a franchise talent ... is the net result worth it?

So you do have to measure these things.

Here are the questions I have...

How much better is Killian Hayes than the Kira Lewis/Tyrese Maxey/RJ Hampton/Theo Maledon/Cole Anthony group?

Is that gap wider than the gap between Aaron Gordon at PF and the combination of Aminu/Okeke at PF next year?

How high in the draft do you think Gordon + 15 could get the Magic? Also what else would be coming back from the other team?

Hayes isn’t super athletic vertically, but he absolutely checks the length/positional size this front office seems to like. I think it’s absolutely possible he’s the apple of the Magic’s eye.

To my knowledge, they’re the only team outside of the lotto to have been granted an interview.

[MagicFan101]

Oh, I agree. As much as I hope Fultz can be the guy, if someone better comes along my loyalty is to the team first.


The key detail is the cost to move up to get a player. If we have to gut assets to get a player who ultimately doesn’t work next to Fultz and himself isn’t a franchise talent ... is the net result worth it?

So you do have to measure these things.

Here are the questions I have...

How much better is Killian Hayes than the Kira Lewis/Tyrese Maxey/RJ Hampton/Theo Maledon/Cole Anthony group?

Is that gap wider than the gap between Aaron Gordon at PF and the combination of Aminu/Okeke at PF next year?

How high in the draft do you think Gordon + 15 could get the Magic? Also what else would be coming back from the other team?

Hayes isn’t super athletic vertically, but he absolutely checks the length/positional size this front office seems to like. I think it’s absolutely possible he’s the apple of the Magic’s eye.

To my knowledge, they’re the only team outside of the lotto to have been granted an interview.

These are all good questions I don’t have the answers to.

But let’s try to put some reality to it based rumors we know of and current mocks ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2020/08/21/nba-mock-draft-2020-timberwolves-win-lottery

10) Phoenix Suns: Killian Hayes

Now, mocks have Hayes going as high as #4 in some cases so what are the chances he falls this far? But stay with me ...


Given the trade deadline rumors, we have to start here.

Would AG + #15 for Oubre + #10/Hayes be a deal that interests people?



... if not or we don’t believe Hayes survives until #10, what pick do we think we can get and what does such a deal look like? Who else is included?

[MagicFan101]

Now I’m stuck thinking of trade ideas as I really do believe Hayes is the guy WeHam are in love with. I think Knightro is correct.


What about a draft night deal with the Knicks?

AG + #15 for Julius Randle + #8=Hayes?

Randle is a flawed player but he is productive and provides some physicality that this club needs, especially next to Vuc ... plus, Hayes is the real prize here.

[VFX]

Hayes is my 1,2,3 choice... not going to ever happen

[Xatticus]

Then we would be stupid to trade up, especially for Vassell
He would do nothing to move the needle for this team

Id take my chance with a potential scorer than another defender with no offense. We have enough of those guys.
Thats Frazier, people forget that frazier was a 39% 3pt shooter in college on the same amount of attempts of vessell, and averaged more PPG, RPG and steals.....and was considered one of the best defenders in the draft.
Same with iwundu. 37% 3pt shooter, 13ppg, top defender etc

Vassell is a role player, hes mikal bridges. FIne for a role, but not someone you trade up for, and not someone you add to a team with zero scorers

Give me the offensive potential of a Cole anthony, RJ Hampton, Maxey, Kira Lewis, Nesmith, ramsey, terry etc over another defender who cant do anything offensively

Leonard Hamilton is a Cliff type coach. He doesn’t highlight players. No one player is going to shine in his system. If your argument about an FSU player is based on stats then you don’t have an argument.

Vassell isn’t a top tier playmaker but given more shots he can be a difference maker as he actually makes shots! I like that combo as Fultz really needs the ball in his hands to be effective where as other names you mentioned would require the ball more and give us a Fultz / DJ scenario which has not worked so far.

Unless you can convince us one of those names is the next Kobe, I’ll take an NBA ready talent who can contribute on day 1 and pairs well with Fultz.

It has nothing to do with stats, it has to with his inability to create for himself and seems almost clueless when he tries. He has no offensive game except for catch and shoot. thats it. He cant beat his guy off the dribble, he cant post, basically he cant do anything useful except catch and shoot. Like i keep saying, hes Mikal Bridges except bridges might be a better creator.

Vassell does nothing that Iwundu cant and wes is a much better ball handler

Sorry, i wouldnt take vassell at 15, let alone trading up for a guy who is going to stand in the corner on offense and wait for the ball, those guys are a dime a dozen in the the 2020 nba.

Good 3nD wings are actually quite rare. A lot of guys labeled as 3nD are actually lacking one or the other. I like Vassell's decision-making and I like his defense. He isn't as physically gifted as Bridges, but I just don't understand why you would use Bridges as an argument against Vassell. Bridges is a terrific player.

Players score points because they take shots. Scoring a lot of points doesn't necessarily mean you are a good offensive player, just as scoring very few doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad offensive player. The goal is to put five guys on the floor at any given time that will outscore their opponents consistently. Shot distribution only matters in how it impacts your ability to achieve that goal.

I wouldn't touch Anthony. I think Hampton is going to be a project at the offensive end. I think Terry will be an offensive weapon, but I doubt he will ever score a lot of points. He just doesn't have the tools to create a lot of offense and he will probably be a significant liability at the defensive end. I'd like to get someone more dynamic than Vassell, but the options just aren't that appealing. If he is there when we pick, I'd be perfectly happy if that's our selection.

[zaymon]

Oh, I agree. As much as I hope Fultz can be the guy, if someone better comes along my loyalty is to the team first.


The key detail is the cost to move up to get a player. If we have to gut assets to get a player who ultimately doesn’t work next to Fultz and himself isn’t a franchise talent ... is the net result worth it?

So you do have to measure these things.

Here are the questions I have...

How much better is Killian Hayes than the Kira Lewis/Tyrese Maxey/RJ Hampton/Theo Maledon/Cole Anthony group?

Is that gap wider than the gap between Aaron Gordon at PF and the combination of Aminu/Okeke at PF next year?

How high in the draft do you think Gordon + 15 could get the Magic? Also what else would be coming back from the other team?

Hayes isn’t super athletic vertically, but he absolutely checks the length/positional size this front office seems to like. I think it’s absolutely possible he’s the apple of the Magic’s eye.

To my knowledge, they’re the only team outside of the lotto to have been granted an interview.

I think Hayes, Maledon and Lewis are fairly close in medium outcome with Hayes having the highest ceiling as a lead ball handler (more dynamic ball handler and off the dribble shooter). I dont like Cole and Maxey becouse they are limited passers.
If Hayes pops the difference between him and the rest will be massive if not they will be similar.
I believe in Okeke so i think difference between Gordon- Okeke is smaller than Hayes- Maledon, Lewis.
Gordon + 15 gets us 5-6 maybe ? Hard to predict.

[Xatticus]

I still don't see why so much hype about Culver .
He is shooting guard who can't shoot from any range. And i mean anyyy range.
He can't even finish around rim at some high level.
Mid range game- crap.
3 ball- horrific.
Efficiency- painful
Advanced stats- paaaiiiiin.
Win share- negative ( does that make his lose or tank share positive ? )

On top of that he can't even shoot damn free throws.

Don't get too hyped about assists, his ratio is almost 1 to 1 and he menaged to collect 30 more personal fouls than assists. Matter of fact he had more fouls than FTs. And his 3 ball sample size isn't that small. 221 shot.

My biggest issue with him is that he really never showed in NBA that he can be anything more than terrible spot up shooter. And his shot relise is SLOOOOW so even his only "strenght" really isn't strenght at all.

Next year around,he will turn 22 ( in February). He isn't even that young.

Only "positive" thing about him is, that he, much like Bamba , was high lottery pick. ( both 6th picks, that slot is cursed, in last 16 years only 2 players drafted 6th were allstars, LIllard and Roy, one retired at 25 ). But that really,really, REALLY doesn't mean he is some high value young player with some upside ( just like Bamba).

For SG spot i use Okogie pepe-metric- Okogie is terrible basketball player without any basketball skills other than high motor and desire ( like a boxer who keeps getting K.O.ed yet always stands up for more ). If you are not better SG than Okogie, you are trash at playing basketball at this level. Culver is not even close to Okogie.


I mean there is some thiny little chance that Culver has some basketball upside that he menaged to hide for last 10 years. But i would not bet on that. Players don't go from this level of garbage to good players,especially on guard positions in NBA fast. Or at all. Just like Lonzo had horrific rookie year, bit better second, but by the third year it was clear as a day that his objectiv ceiling is nba mediocrity that probably has no value on contending teams for years to come.

He was the engine for a very good Texas Tech team that lost the title game in OT. That Texas Tech team had the best defense in the country. Rookies struggle. It happens. He certainly didn't kill them when he was on the court and he is only going to get better. He will be a very good defender.

I don't really care what he did at college, Jah Okafor was like Hakeem of college basketball.
His RAPTOR is worst than NAW and his attrouches numbers.

When i limited his MPG ( 1500 ) to at least 1000 over whole season, only 4 nba players played more and were worst.

Even by rookie standards, with at least 500 min played ,he is tied with Kevin Porter Jr, and Hunter as 7th worst rookie.

No matter what i used to comparison, how hard i tried to not be critical, it's just hard to see any reason why touch him.

IF you are shooting guard, and you have no shooting skills whatsoever, to the point you are below 50% ft shooter. What execlly is your strenght ? Minny didn't trade for Beasley for nothing.
I mean best argument for Culver is that he belongs to one of the worst draft classes in last 10-20 years.
Garland, Culver,Hunter,White, Barrett,Reddish... Painful. Jordan Clarkson is best case for most of them.

You said he was managing to hide his upside for the last ten years. I get that it was hyperbole, but it wasn't at all accurate. He was one of the best players in the whole of the NCAA as a sophomore last year.

When you say only such and such were worse, what are you trying to say? Were you trying to say that only said players had worse shooting percentages? Basketball is not a game of HORSE. It just isn't. You can put up impressive shooting lines and kill your team's chances of success at the same time.

Culver didn't hurt the lineups he was in. That's actually rather encouraging given his shooting lines. I don't love his shot, but I expect he will do just fine as a slasher and finisher. I'm also not that concerned about his FT% as of yet because he was clearly better in his two years at Texas Tech.

And for what it's worth, Okafor wasn't a great college player and he wasn't at all comparable to Olajuwon. Okafor could score from the low block. He can still score from the low block. Look it up. He has been far more efficient as a scorer than has Vucevic and on a respectable usage rate. The problem is that Okafor is trash on defense. Olajuwon was an exceptional defensive player. It's just really hypocritical to critique a player that is terrific at the defensive end by comparing him to Okafor. You seem to devolve every argument about the value of a player to a comparison of shooting percentages. You don't seem to care in the least about a player's defensive value. Shouldn't you be pro Okafor?

[tiderulz]

That is my thought as well when I offer Vassell (or others). These guys can fit what we are doing and fill a need. They can add value and improve our team. Just because a super star is not available does not mean you have sit on your hands and do nothing.

... at the same time, it doesn’t mean we should force the issue and take back that Wiggins deal.


** I’m also on board with Anthony / Lewis at #15 and buying a late pick pick for a SG or wing. This is another strategy If we think there is another NAW type situation.

Then we would be stupid to trade up, especially for Vassell
He would do nothing to move the needle for this team

Id take my chance with a potential scorer than another defender with no offense. We have enough of those guys.
Thats Frazier, people forget that frazier was a 39% 3pt shooter in college on the same amount of attempts of vessell, and averaged more PPG, RPG and steals.....and was considered one of the best defenders in the draft.
Same with iwundu. 37% 3pt shooter, 13ppg, top defender etc

Vassell is a role player, hes mikal bridges. FIne for a role, but not someone you trade up for, and not someone you add to a team with zero scorers

Give me the offensive potential of a Cole anthony, RJ Hampton, Maxey, Kira Lewis, Nesmith, ramsey, terry etc over another defender who cant do anything offensively

Leonard Hamilton is a Cliff type coach. He doesn’t highlight players. No one player is going to shine in his system. If your argument about an FSU player is based on stats then you don’t have an argument.

Vassell isn’t a top tier playmaker but given more shots he can be a difference maker as he actually makes shots! I like that combo as Fultz really needs the ball in his hands to be effective where as other names you mentioned would require the ball more and give us a Fultz / DJ scenario which has not worked so far.

Unless you can convince us one of those names is the next Kobe, I’ll take an NBA ready talent who can contribute on day 1 and pairs well with Fultz.

i say this not aimed at you or an attack. But i feel like i heard this when Isaac was drafted. Heard that he could do more on offense, it was all the way he was used at FSU and deferring to upper classmen. 3 years later, Isaac is still either below average or still really raw on offense because he is just not that good at it

[jonbob17]

The weird thing about Hayes is that he was good at shooting 3s off the dribble, but was terrible at catch and shoot, which usually anybody can do.