Which NBA Team can Leon dupe into acquiring King Julius

[Jeff Van Gully]

Utah is not going to be giving us Conley and an Asset for Randle. They are also a good team and looking to advance to the next round in the playoffs. Conley is good for them in win-now mode and his 38% from 3 is important to that team.

If they were getting beat badly I could see them thinking about it but definitely not in their current situation.

randle is more of a cap problem than conley is. conley's got a 20-21 player option and that's it. randle's got a partial guarantee for 21-22... and conley is helping them compete. makes no sense... let alone to think they'd pay for the privilege.

How much is Randle's third year guarantee again?

$4m if i understand correctly.

edit: conley's a bigger hit next season, assuming he picks up that $35m option. lol. but they don't have to be in the penalty, and they're free of his money after that.

[MaseInYourFace]

randle is more of a cap problem than conley is. conley's got a 20-21 player option and that's it. randle's got a partial guarantee for 21-22... and conley is helping them compete. makes no sense... let alone to think they'd pay for the privilege.

How much is Randle's third year guarantee again?

$4m if i understand correctly.

That's manageable if that's the case.

[dakomish23]

I’d prefer to use him better, then trade him when his value isn’t at an all time low if you want.

Make him the backup C
Surround him with shooters / defenders
Limit the iso stuff
Create for him via PnR / PnP
Make him focus more on the offensive glass
Ideally you’d be able to find a stretch big who defends the rim somewhat

Still like the signing. The execution was flawed.

[Jeff Van Gully]

How much is Randle's third year guarantee again?

$4m if i understand correctly.

That's manageable if that's the case.

yeah, it's not worth doing anything drastic over. if you can pawn him off onto someone else, cool. if you want to eat salary for assets, i get that too. the $4m shouldn't be burning a hole in NY's pocket.

even if they sign FVV this offseason to a deal that's $25m in 2021, knicks should still have another max spot to play with. even if with the lottery salaries and retaining frank or DSJ to moderate deals. team is actually in great financial shape with a bag of assets. really unusual situation for us.

[Manhattan Project]

It's not that Randle is a bad player, he just has no business being the go to option for a team. His role on the Pelicans was perfect for him, fringe starter but ultimately a sixth man that can come in and impact the game. Guys who can average 20/10 do have value in this league, but those numbers aren't all that impactful unfortunately for us. All the blame doesn't fall on him, but he was part of the problem. His three ball was non existent, you know what he's doing from a mile away and ultimately doesn't play any defense.

[BowlRips]

You guys that are saying keep him cause theres nothing worth trading him for are really missing the mark..

We are in unprecedented financial situation for the league. Revenue will not be there for the 2020-2021 season and the league just lost out a ton on playoff ticket sales.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29544380/nba-owners-current-financial-turmoil-portends-future-payroll-problems

Teams are 100% going to be looking to offload payroll for next season, even if the cap is artificially inflated.

There are not many teams with cap space that would be able to take on a massive salary or simply swap it for a lesser contract.

Knicks are going to be armed with $40mil in space plus Randles contract.

Scenarios where you can save a team $5 to $10 to even $20million a year is where the Knicks are going to be able to take advantage.

Some of the proposals in this thread were based on teams saving $10mil a year in swapping their bigger contract for a lesser one.

There are some instances where those deals will make sense for NY from either a) an assets standpoint b) a fit standpoint or c) both.

Trick is to finding C.

I know Aller is all over this

[Kampuchea]

I think you are way off on the direction of OKC. They are winning now and in no rush to move those guys.

This is a 5 seed in the west and right now 2-2 with Rockets.


If anything they would want assets from us to do the trade. And we should not be giving assets for CP3 so this is NGTH

No offense and I am saying this in the nicest possible way but you are completely way off on value

The entire point of a trade with OKC is to give them salary cap relief. The NBA trade landscape is not completely determined by which player is better. You have to consider the salary cap and how much each player is earning relative to their play on the court. We are in a recession and the NBA just lost a huge amount of revenue. I'm sure you already knew this though. CP3 is earning twice as much as guys who will probably produce just as much as he will next year. 41 million then 44 million. absolutely brutal in a salary cap that is likely to go down. You also completely neglected to consider the talent that OKC already has. That is 3 point guards that make 61 million dollars between CP3, Schroeder and Gilgeous-Alexander. it doesnt really make sense to pay 3 point guards.

Look I'm open to hearing different viewpoints. But wow if you can convince anyone that a 35 yr old declining point guard who already misses 15-20 games per year is going to be worth over 40 million per year than that is a monumental achievement. Now if you do pull that off then try convincing an actual NBA GM, good luck with that. oh and for some reason I thought Schroeder was making more than Randle. nevermind they wouldnt save any money

yeah, i can see OKC wanting to find a way out of that $45m 21-22 hit. sheesh. that's only built for cuban linx owners. that's something a team needs to pay for. otherwise, let them take that luxury tax to the face.

if you're the knicks, you then have to run with budget contracts only if you are hoping to land a FA in 2021. pretty risky play.

the other side of that is OKC can be cheap outside of paul too. they can let gallo walk and stay out of the tax. then let adams and schroeder walk. they'll be less competitive, but they won't be bleeding cash. in which case, they might be onto another rebuild around SGA. trading paul could accelerate that.

If OKC struggles the prospect of them moving that contract becomes much more possible. They are just playing too well for them to blow it up right now.

If they don't open strong next season we can revisit the idea, OKC has a mountain of picks if they did want to move him.

I don't see OKC entertaining it UNLESS the team trends downwards next season.

[BowlRips]

You guys that are saying keep him cause theres nothing worth trading him for are really missing the mark..

We are in unprecedented financial situation for the league. Revenue will not be there for the 2020-2021 season and the league just lost out a ton on playoff ticket sales.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29544380/nba-owners-current-financial-turmoil-portends-future-payroll-problems

Teams are 100% going to be looking to offload payroll for next season, even if the cap is artificially inflated.

There are not many teams with cap space that would be able to take on a massive salary or simply swap it for a lesser contract.

Knicks are going to be armed with $40mil in space plus Randles contract.

Scenarios where you can save a team $5 to $10 to even $20million a year is where the Knicks are going to be able to take advantage.

Some of the proposals in this thread were based on teams saving $10mil a year in swapping their bigger contract for a lesser one.

There are some instances where those deals will make sense for NY from either a) an assets standpoint b) a fit standpoint or c) both.

Trick is to finding C.

I know Aller is all over this

Nostradamus over here

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29739338/sources-nba-players-union-agree-2nd-push-back-window-preserving-cba-termination-rights

In an ordinary year, the NBA and NBPA calculate the new salary cap between the end of the draft and the start of free agency. This year, the league is addressing the urgency of teams to have those new cap and luxury tax figures before the draft because it dramatically influences how teams approach decisions -- including trades and the buying and selling of picks.

The financial realities of the league's revenues cratering without fans in arenas would have a dramatic impact on teams, especially smaller-market franchises dependent on gate receipts and revenue sharing from big markets such as Los Angeles, New York and Golden State. In a scenario where gate receipts are gone -- or dramatically limited -- big-market teams will be limited in the money they can share with those in smaller cities.

Among worst-case scenarios, some small-market teams tell ESPN that they fear they could lose north of $20 million in revenue sharing next season. Those sorts of projections affect competitive balance and are the models that the NBA and NBPA would want to sidestep in these CBA discussions.

For instance, the CBA has a projected 2020-21 salary cap of $115 million, with a luxury-tax threshold of $139 million. Amid the loss of revenue streams, some teams fear that the cap and tax could fall as far as $25 million to $30 million. Without the NBA and NBPA negotiating a new mechanism for the cap, the league could be facing 25 of its 30 teams stuck in luxury-tax payments based on projected payrolls -- something that would chill free agency and limit many organizations' ability to operate in a normal manner in the marketplace.

Capital and cap flexibility is King right now. We have both

[Sark]

That cap space means nothing if we don't use it right. What they should do is absorb bad contracts for future assets, like we were supposed to last year. Instead they will probably try to get new mercenaries to fight for the 10th seed again.

[HarthorneWingo]

i think randle can be a cap space tool for a bad contract if we want to eat one for assets. i don't like the idea of using assets to get rid of someone we could effectively buy out if we really couldn't stand him.

I think it's imperative that Randle is off this team this coming season. He's poison to the chemistry we must have in order for the young players to develop. I don't want to get too cute with any kind of transaction.

It would be great to get a future 2nd round pick like in 2030. Great!

Or Randle can come off the bench. But he's a sulker and that move will cause consternation.

I'm of the opinion that if we have to buy him out and eat the mistake, then we have to consider that as well. We also need to be free of albatross contracts for the summer of 2021 and '22 so I'm not going to take one back just to get another first round pick in 2023. Our time to move is coming up soon.

[BowlRips]

That cap space means nothing if we don't use it right. What they should do is absorb bad contracts for future assets, like we were supposed to last year. Instead they will probably try to get new mercenaries to fight for the 10th seed again.

Can you do both?
Can you get Conley and a pick for Randle? Save Utah $16mil this year and they get a rotational player?

[HarthorneWingo]

That cap space means nothing if we don't use it right. What they should do is absorb bad contracts for future assets, like we were supposed to last year. Instead they will probably try to get new mercenaries to fight for the 10th seed again.

Can you do both?
Can you get Conley and a pick for Randle? Save Utah $16mil this year and they get a rotational player?

I'd just buy him out. Good riddance.

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[knickstape4ever]

Randle is just not a fit w/ the starting lineup. you need a floor spacer at either the 4/5 in today's game, and next to Mitch and RJ, he creates spacing issues

his best fit for this team would be as a backup 5, but would he be happy only getting ~20min per game. also it's expected that Taj will be back, and he's the backup 5. Taj and Randle aren't a fit together, so they'd have to choose between 1.

the best option would be to trade him if possible w/o giving up assets or taking on another contract that has more yrs than his. what team would want him? good question. to be a starter, he'd need to play next to a 5 that can shoot:

Wolves have Towns, and I've seen their fans propose deals for Randle
Nuggets have Jokic
Magic have Vuc, but w/ Gordon, they wouldnt want Randle
Pacers have Turner but w/ Sabonis, they wouldnt want Randle

problem is, both Nuggets and Wolves need defense, and Julius is not a + defender

in the offseason there were rumors the Suns and Randle had mutual interest, but that doesnt seem like a fit to me.

The Bulls, Knicks, and Nets are viewed as potential suitors for Julius Randle, sources tell Charania.

Read on Twitter

[Sark]

That cap space means nothing if we don't use it right. What they should do is absorb bad contracts for future assets, like we were supposed to last year. Instead they will probably try to get new mercenaries to fight for the 10th seed again.

Can you do both?
Can you get Conley and a pick for Randle? Save Utah $16mil this year and they get a rotational player?

I mean, are they actually looking to dump Conley, or are you just pulling that out of your ass?

[thebuzzardman]

I don't think you have to worry about Taj's minutes if the Knicks decide to get Randle 20 mpg at backup C.

Just make Taj Thib's Herb Williams. 3rd C, 15th man, just about an assistant coach, voice in the locker room.

[KnicksGadfly]

I’d prefer to use him better, then trade him when his value isn’t at an all time low if you want.

Make him the backup C
Surround him with shooters / defenders
Limit the iso stuff
Create for him via PnR / PnP
Make him focus more on the offensive glass
Ideally you’d be able to find a stretch big who defends the rim somewhat

Still like the signing. The execution was flawed.

Who are the stretch bigs you're considering?

[KnicksGadfly]

It's not that Randle is a bad player, he just has no business being the go to option for a team. His role on the Pelicans was perfect for him, fringe starter but ultimately a sixth man that can come in and impact the game. Guys who can average 20/10 do have value in this league, but those numbers aren't all that impactful unfortunately for us. All the blame doesn't fall on him, but he was part of the problem. His three ball was non existent, you know what he's doing from a mile away and ultimately doesn't play any defense.

I can sort of agree with your assessment. Fringe starter-sixth man...even this is a stretch to me. Everyone keeps talking about how we didn't build right around Randle or place him in the right situation, I actually REALLY agree.

1) Randle is really expensive and a sunk cost. You can't pay a bench player that much money. And you can't sacrifice a team's future, like Mitch and RJ, for a bench player. You shouldn't need to build around a bench player to that extent.

2) Stretch bigs who defend well are hard to find. Is Randle really going to find someone better than AD? And if he put up 20-10 next to AD and Jrue, and the Pelicans still couldn't win...what does that say about him? Any stretch big that we list out for Randle, I'm willing to pair with Mitch first. Two stretch bigs that I can think of right now, that can pair kinda with Randle: Brook Lopez and KP. But as this example shows, a guy like Brook Lopez can play with Giannis, Lebron, Harden...anybody.

3) 20-10 is overrated. Jahlil Okafor can get us 20-10 if we give him minutes. Greg Monroe could have done it. Enes Kanter certainly can. There are 20-10 players that are still super-impactful. AD, Embiid, Jokic, etc. But Randle and Wiggins are reasons why I'm leaving behind metrics like 20 ppg.

[Manhattan Project]

I can sort of agree with your assessment. Fringe starter-sixth man...even this is a stretch to me. Everyone keeps talking about how we didn't build right around Randle or place him in the right situation, I actually REALLY agree.

1) Randle is really expensive and a sunk cost. You can't pay a bench player that much money. And you can't sacrifice a team's future, like Mitch and RJ, for a bench player. You shouldn't need to build around a bench player to that extent.

2) Stretch bigs who defend well are hard to find. Is Randle really going to find someone better than AD? And if he put up 20-10 next to AD and Jrue, and the Pelicans still couldn't win...what does that say about him? Any stretch big that we list out for Randle, I'm willing to pair with Mitch first. Two stretch bigs that I can think of right now, that can pair kinda with Randle: Brook Lopez and KP. But as this example shows, a guy like Brook Lopez can play with Giannis, Lebron, Harden...anybody.

3) 20-10 is overrated. Jahlil Okafor can get us 20-10 if we give him minutes. Greg Monroe could have done it. Enes Kanter certainly can. There are 20-10 players that are still super-impactful. AD, Embiid, Jokic, etc. But Randle and Wiggins are reasons why I'm leaving behind metrics like 20 ppg.

I mean we did build right around anyone, it was a monumental failure of a season. Terrible spacing, zero to limited growth from Frank, Mitch, Knox and Smith. Barrett started to turn it around while being placed at small forward. You can go on and on, it was just piss poor roster management.

Randle at the end of the day has one more year with us, there's zero chance we will guarantee his final year. It'll cost us 4 million to let him go, not one person will shed a tear. The day any team builds around Randle, the GM should be immediately fired.

20-10 is absolutely overrated, you just don't want to be the GM that gets duped into paying for the overinflated production. Which of course we did, Randle on a one year 9 million contract was perfect for the Pelicans. It gave him a chance to showcase what he can do and the Pelicans got a great return on that contract. Randle is without a doubt a NBA player, but he's not going to be starting on great teams. Okafor/Monroe are weird examples just because how slow footed they are, game speed is just too much for them. Randle for all his defensive shortcomings will still have a career because he can move. He should strive to be like Harrell, but he likes to dribble the ball too damn much.

[dakomish23]

I’d prefer to use him better, then trade him when his value isn’t at an all time low if you want.

Make him the backup C
Surround him with shooters / defenders
Limit the iso stuff
Create for him via PnR / PnP
Make him focus more on the offensive glass
Ideally you’d be able to find a stretch big who defends the rim somewhat

Still like the signing. The execution was flawed.

Who are the stretch bigs you're considering?

Christian Wood kind of fits. Not too many of these guys around.

[G_K_F]

None.