Trade Talk (Part Four)

[Mattya]

Culver 17-33 is not getting Dipo. IIRC you would Turn down 6 and Collins for #1. My apology if that wasn't you.

Cool. Then we aren’t getting Oladipo. No problem for me keeps our flexibility with young players and draft assets. I’d absolutely decline Collins and #6 for #1. Give me Wiseman.

You're stand on this is noted. It could be Collins and Avdija or Hayes or Toppin or Vassell or Okongwu or Haliburton, or Okoro. Once we get Collins that probably eliminates Okongwu and Toppin so the others.

Don’t care about any of the trade down prospects if it means we lose out on Wiseman for Collins. I’ll bet on Wiseman’s defense impacting the game more than Collins offense. If Wiseman develops any sort of 3 point shot then I’m easily taking the chance on that potential next to KAT.

[KGdaBom]

I don't buy it. I'll go to your board and do some looking around.

I'm not telling or asking you to buy it. Just what the general consensus is - Not trading John Collins for anyone in this draft.
There are a few fans who might be interested in Edwards for the right price, but most aren't.

From the TnT Board:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1989150

I'm not saying you would give us Collins and 6. That's my wet dream . I'd be quite surprised if you weren't willing to give up one of Hunter/Reddish and 6 for him and maybe throw us your second round pick into the deal.

[KGdaBom]

Cool. Then we aren’t getting Oladipo. No problem for me keeps our flexibility with young players and draft assets. I’d absolutely decline Collins and #6 for #1. Give me Wiseman.

You're stand on this is noted. It could be Collins and Avdija or Hayes or Toppin or Vassell or Okongwu or Haliburton, or Okoro. Once we get Collins that probably eliminates Okongwu and Toppin so the others.

Don’t care about any of the trade down prospects if it means we lose out on Wiseman for Collins. I’ll bet on Wiseman’s defense impacting the game more than Collins offense. If Wiseman develops any sort of 3 point shot then I’m easily taking the chance on that potential next to KAT.

Your stance is noted. With Collins we don't have to be concerned about him developing a 3 point shot. I think we could still get somebody quite good at pick 6. So my stance is noted. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Atlanta would go for it, but a man can dream.

[jayu70]

I'm not telling or asking you to buy it. Just what the general consensus is - Not trading John Collins for anyone in this draft.
There are a few fans who might be interested in Edwards for the right price, but most aren't.

From the TnT Board:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1989150

I'm not saying you would give us Collins and 6. That's my wet dream . I'd be quite surprised if you weren't willing to give up one of Hunter/Reddish and 6 for him and maybe throw us your second round pick into the deal.

The GM loves Reddish (despite his slow offensive start the 1st 2 months of the season, his defense kept him on the floor) so doubt that.
Wings with size and defense are premium, especially with Trae's defensive deficiencies.

[Mattya]

You're stand on this is noted. It could be Collins and Avdija or Hayes or Toppin or Vassell or Okongwu or Haliburton, or Okoro. Once we get Collins that probably eliminates Okongwu and Toppin so the others.

Don’t care about any of the trade down prospects if it means we lose out on Wiseman for Collins. I’ll bet on Wiseman’s defense impacting the game more than Collins offense. If Wiseman develops any sort of 3 point shot then I’m easily taking the chance on that potential next to KAT.

Your stance is noted. With Collins we don't have to be concerned about him developing a 3 point shot. I think we could still get somebody quite good at pick 6. So my stance is noted. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Atlanta would go for it, but a man can dream.

I’m just surprised you went from a guy who hates the 3 harped about wanting impactful defensive players for as long as I can remember but now are fawning over Collins next to KAT. Last season Collins was the worst defensive power forward in the league or close to it by many standards.

[KGdaBom]

From the TnT Board:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1989150

I'm not saying you would give us Collins and 6. That's my wet dream . I'd be quite surprised if you weren't willing to give up one of Hunter/Reddish and 6 for him and maybe throw us your second round pick into the deal.

The GM loves Reddish (despite his slow offensive start the 1st 2 months of the season, his defense kept him on the floor) so doubt that.
Wings with size and defense are premium, especially with Trae's defensive deficiencies.

I know Reddish really came on strong at the end of the season. That's why I would consider him, but his efficiency numbers weren't bad............... They were horrible.

[Neeva]

#1 for J.Collins + #6 is a simple.... Y E S

Collins is not the guy you want as yor third max player no way no how! Sorry hes overated.

What is it about his 20-10 on 58-40-80 shooting and 2.4 stocks a game is overrated.

Empty stats does not play defense, will never be close to an all star (not even in the east)
Pretty positive someone like Toppin could put up similar offensive stats on a bad team and be 1/4 cheaper.

[KGdaBom]

Collins is not the guy you want as yor third max player no way no how! Sorry hes overated.

What is it about his 20-10 on 58-40-80 shooting and 2.4 stocks a game is overrated.

Empty stats does not play defense, will never be close to an all star (not even in the east)
Pretty positive someone like Toppin could put up similar offensice stats on a bad team and be 1/4 cheaper.

Bad team makes it harder not easier to put up great efficiency numbers like his. That's what makes his stats all the more impressive.
No such thing as an empty stat. I guarantee that when he scores a basket two points are added to his team. When he gets a rebound his team gains possession of the ball. No such thing as an empty stat.
How much of him playing Defense have you watched? Exactly what about his defense is bad?

[KGdaBom]

Don’t care about any of the trade down prospects if it means we lose out on Wiseman for Collins. I’ll bet on Wiseman’s defense impacting the game more than Collins offense. If Wiseman develops any sort of 3 point shot then I’m easily taking the chance on that potential next to KAT.

Your stance is noted. With Collins we don't have to be concerned about him developing a 3 point shot. I think we could still get somebody quite good at pick 6. So my stance is noted. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Atlanta would go for it, but a man can dream.

I’m just surprised you went from a guy who hates the 3 harped about wanting impactful defensive players for as long as I can remember but now are fawning over Collins next to KAT. Last season Collins was the worst defensive power forward in the league or close to it by many standards.

I hate the 3 with a passion, but since it is a huge part of the game I appreciate how well Collins can shoot it and he's a perfect fit for our 5 out scheme. His offensive efficiency is freaking off the charts. Plus I'm talking about getting pick 6 included in that deal for a rookie with question marks.
Also good D is good, but Offense wins championships IMO. It's the first part of the game to consider when trading or drafting IMO.

[Mattya]

Your stance is noted. With Collins we don't have to be concerned about him developing a 3 point shot. I think we could still get somebody quite good at pick 6. So my stance is noted. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Atlanta would go for it, but a man can dream.

I’m just surprised you went from a guy who hates the 3 harped about wanting impactful defensive players for as long as I can remember but now are fawning over Collins next to KAT. Last season Collins was the worst defensive power forward in the league or close to it by many standards.

I hate the 3 with a passion, but since it is a huge part of the game I appreciate how well Collins can shoot it and he's a perfect fit for our 5 out scheme. His offensive efficiency is freaking off the charts. Plus I'm talking about getting pick 6 included in that deal for a rookie with question marks.
Also good D is good, but Offense wins championships IMO. It's the first part of the game to consider when trading or drafting IMO.

So why not get a guy like Wiseman who is going to be an instant lob threat, isn’t a liability at the fre throw line, shows some potential to space the floor while being a potential defensive anchor on the opposite side of the spectrum as Collins. Especially considering Towns’ defensive issues.

[KGdaBom]

I’m just surprised you went from a guy who hates the 3 harped about wanting impactful defensive players for as long as I can remember but now are fawning over Collins next to KAT. Last season Collins was the worst defensive power forward in the league or close to it by many standards.

I hate the 3 with a passion, but since it is a huge part of the game I appreciate how well Collins can shoot it and he's a perfect fit for our 5 out scheme. His offensive efficiency is freaking off the charts. Plus I'm talking about getting pick 6 included in that deal for a rookie with question marks.
Also good D is good, but Offense wins championships IMO. It's the first part of the game to consider when trading or drafting IMO.

So why not get a guy like Wiseman who is going to be an instant lob threat, isn’t a liability at the fre throw line, shows some potential to space the floor while being a potential defensive anchor on the opposite side of the spectrum as Collins. Especially considering Towns’ defensive issues.

Because Collins who is a proven NBA player, plus Avdija, Hayes, Vassell or whoever we can take at 6 will be more beneficial to our team IMO than Wiseman alone. We hope Wiseman can eventually get a good 3 point shot. We already know that Collins has a great 3 point shot. Also Collins is an 80% FT guy so no liability. No guarantee that Wiseman will be better than Collins or the player we pick at 6. Likely we draft Edwards so Wiseman might not even be in the equation.

[karch34]

I think the biggest issue for Wiseman is that there's 3 college games to draw assumptions from. I think it could be a brilliant pick that could allow us to go smaller at the wing than we'd maybe try otherwise or it's another big taken at the top that doesn't work out. Ceiling is high and floor is low for the top 3 in my mind and the concern.

[Mattya]

I hate the 3 with a passion, but since it is a huge part of the game I appreciate how well Collins can shoot it and he's a perfect fit for our 5 out scheme. His offensive efficiency is freaking off the charts. Plus I'm talking about getting pick 6 included in that deal for a rookie with question marks.
Also good D is good, but Offense wins championships IMO. It's the first part of the game to consider when trading or drafting IMO.

So why not get a guy like Wiseman who is going to be an instant lob threat, isn’t a liability at the fre throw line, shows some potential to space the floor while being a potential defensive anchor on the opposite side of the spectrum as Collins. Especially considering Towns’ defensive issues.

Because Collins who is a proven NBA player, plus Avdija, Hayes, Vassell or whoever we can take at 6 will be more beneficial to our team IMO than Wiseman alone. We hope Wiseman can eventually get a good 3 point shot. We already know that Collins has a great 3 point shot. Also Collins is an 80% FT guy so no liability. No guarantee that Wiseman will be better than Collins or the player we pick at 6. Likely we draft Edwards so Wiseman might not even be in the equation.

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

[KGdaBom]

So why not get a guy like Wiseman who is going to be an instant lob threat, isn’t a liability at the fre throw line, shows some potential to space the floor while being a potential defensive anchor on the opposite side of the spectrum as Collins. Especially considering Towns’ defensive issues.

Because Collins who is a proven NBA player, plus Avdija, Hayes, Vassell or whoever we can take at 6 will be more beneficial to our team IMO than Wiseman alone. We hope Wiseman can eventually get a good 3 point shot. We already know that Collins has a great 3 point shot. Also Collins is an 80% FT guy so no liability. No guarantee that Wiseman will be better than Collins or the player we pick at 6. Likely we draft Edwards so Wiseman might not even be in the equation.

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

[Mattya]

I think the biggest issue for Wiseman is that there's 3 college games to draw assumptions from. I think it could be a brilliant pick that could allow us to go smaller at the wing than we'd maybe try otherwise or it's another big taken at the top that doesn't work out. Ceiling is high and floor is low for the top 3 in my mind and the concern.

You think Wiseman’s floor is low? He has the highest floor in the draft if you ask me and probably not particularly close even in the top 3.

[shangrila]

Because Collins who is a proven NBA player, plus Avdija, Hayes, Vassell or whoever we can take at 6 will be more beneficial to our team IMO than Wiseman alone. We hope Wiseman can eventually get a good 3 point shot. We already know that Collins has a great 3 point shot. Also Collins is an 80% FT guy so no liability. No guarantee that Wiseman will be better than Collins or the player we pick at 6. Likely we draft Edwards so Wiseman might not even be in the equation.

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

There isn't any one player, especially in this draft, who'll "solve" our defence. It's an uphill battle as is just with Towns and DLo. Throw Beasley in and now Collins and you might as well not even bother. Hire D'Antoni after Houston fires him and we can recreate the SSOL system.

[Mattya]

Because Collins who is a proven NBA player, plus Avdija, Hayes, Vassell or whoever we can take at 6 will be more beneficial to our team IMO than Wiseman alone. We hope Wiseman can eventually get a good 3 point shot. We already know that Collins has a great 3 point shot. Also Collins is an 80% FT guy so no liability. No guarantee that Wiseman will be better than Collins or the player we pick at 6. Likely we draft Edwards so Wiseman might not even be in the equation.

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

You think Okoro solves our defense? Especially after adding Collins? That is 4 bad defenders in the starting lineup and a 6’6 rookie SF. I’m pretty low on Okoro so I don’t see that at all.

You keep saying that offense is more important than defense. You do realize Wiseman isn’t a scrub on offense right? I personally don’t know how teams are going to stop him on lobs if he is on the Wolves or Warriors. If he develops a 3 point shot we would lose any trade that has been proposed so far.

[KGdaBom]

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

There isn't any one player, especially in this draft, who'll "solve" our defence. It's an uphill battle as is just with Towns and DLo. Throw Beasley in and now Collins and you might as well not even bother. Hire D'Antoni after Houston fires him and we can recreate the SSOL system.

LOL. Yes I knew that Okoro by himself couldn't completely fix our defense. However with Collins another excellent 3 point shooter we could afford to draft Okoro to at least help the D.

[KGdaBom]

I’m not a fan of limiting the ceiling of the team for guarantees on players who don’t play defense to put next to Towns. Seems pretty short sighted.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

You think Okoro solves our defense? Especially after adding Collins? That is 4 bad defenders in the starting lineup and a 6’6 rookie SF. I’m pretty low on Okoro so I don’t see that at all.

You keep saying that offense is more important than defense. You do realize Wiseman isn’t a scrub on offense right? I personally don’t know how teams are going to stop him on lobs if he is on the Wolves or Warriors. If he develops a 3 point shot we would lose any trade that has been proposed so far.

Once again I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman. However, you are acting like he is the second coming of Hakeem Olajuwon only taller. I don't have that much enthusiasm for him. No way in Hell does Atlanta gives us Collins and 6, but if they did I'd be dancing naked....
In my bedroom. Not anywhere somebody could see me.

[shangrila]

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Wiseman who is easily my favorite player in this draft.
Trading for Collins will allow us to draft Okoro who is supposed to be an incredible defender at both the SF and PF. Defense solved. Offense is still more important than defense. This has been fun to think about, but it's never going to happen anyway and we are probably drafting Edwards so however good Wiseman may be we will probably be seeing him do that for the Warriors.

There isn't any one player, especially in this draft, who'll "solve" our defence. It's an uphill battle as is just with Towns and DLo. Throw Beasley in and now Collins and you might as well not even bother. Hire D'Antoni after Houston fires him and we can recreate the SSOL system.

LOL. Yes I knew that Okoro by himself couldn't completely fix our defense. However with Collins another excellent 3 point shooter we could afford to draft Okoro to at least help the D.

I get what you're saying but honestly, that sounds like trying to put out a house fire by spitting at it. May as well draft Nesmith and pray we make more 3s than the other team.