2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome)

[Clyde_Style]

tbh, it's not crazy to say establishment democrats have failed black america for ages. All these issues we are seeing now, are not new really new issues. They've been happening for decades.

Anyways, the GOP has Tim Scott, and that former democratic rep who decided to not rerun and instead endorse Trump. They also have a black senator likely to beat an incumbent democrat in Michigan. Eventually, one of these guys will run for President. And I bet it's the next term.

GOP has a lot going for them as far as black votes. I don't think it will be 20% like some poll are showing, but I think it will be between 10-14%

Biden saying "you ain't black if you don't vote for me, Latins are more diverse than blacks" really was dumb and cost him votes. We can't pretend it didn't. That's naive.

Just to add, I still think the GOP is more racist though tbh. Them reaching out to blacks is more about desperation. I still don't see them nominating a black person with a more culturally black name or somebody with the name "Barack". At least not anytime soon.

[infinite11285]

The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left, but the Republican Party isn't great either. I'm not sure who I'm voting for yet.

The radical Right created the radical Left. And now, the super saiyan of the radical Right (QAnon) has infiltrated politics. I can only imagine what the Left birthchild of that will be.

[DOT]

The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left, but the Republican Party isn't great either. I'm not sure who I'm voting for yet.

The radical Right created the radical Left. And now, the super saiyan of the radical Right (QAnon) has infiltrated politics. I can only imagine what the Left birthchild of that will be.

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

[BallSacBounce]

I never called you any names. Though I do think Trump is a fascist.

I don't think there's a secret vote. I think the there's an electoral problem based on previous gerrymandering which is the only way he can win. I betcha Trump losses the popular vote again.

I agree that Trump has the enthusiasm adavantage which is important. Trump's base is much more stoked for him than the Democrat base is for Biden. I think Trump stands a good chance of winning.

You've never called me any names Wingo. I appreciate that more than you can know. Sorry about a prior post where I said something about a low iq response. I really didn't mean it the way it sounded buddy. More like that was along the lines of something unexpected and I was alerting you that it wasn't thought through. My bad though all the way.

If Trump was a fascist it would be easy enough to show it with his overwhelming federal response to the riots. Which he hasn't done. He would not allow dissent, dissent is all over. He would demand more federal control while his actions have been the opposite. He is terrible at the fascist thing.

Wingo I am telling you there is absolutely 100 percent a "shy" Trump supporter. YMMV and all that fair enough. But the threats to our existence are very real and that will cause a turtle reaction.

I talk to people, a lot of them. I've been in sales all my life. I have friends, people I care about that have very different perspectives on politics. One very close friend that I have diametrically opposed political viewpoints with told me I had to denounce Trump to continue the friendship. Not happening.

We continued the friendship however it is not the same. I do not tell my formerly close friend my political viewpoints anymore. We dance around them. I have covered them up because he thinks I need to conform to connect and I haven't asked him to do the same because I do not.

I'm sorry but you really have no idea what we go through. You will see. The wreckage the left has wrought will be dealt with at the polls. The only ones that matter, the election itself.

Admittedly, it's difficult when you developed friendships from the past before political beliefs were formed and then you find out that you operate on two different sets of socio-economic perspectives. All I can say is that it is difficult to lose friendships because of closely held political beliefs. I'm been on both sides of it.

So where do you stand on the following issues. Does your business experience effect your political perspective? Do you think that businesspeople as opposed to, let's say, lawyers, should run the country? How about these issues:

1. Climate change/Green New Deal/energy conversion, etc.?

2. Income inequality/tax increases on the top 1% and corporations; wealth tax; and a marginal income tax on incomes over $_______________ million?

3. Police reform? E.g., (a) transferring money from the PD to mental health/social work in order to address incidents involving that demographic; (b) replacing a certain percentage of street officers with unarmed traffic safety officers?

4. Foreign policy? Military withdrawal from the Middle East and replace with strategic diplomacy through allies and UN while reducing our footprint there. Withdraw economic support from countries that are unwilling to cooperate with American interests.

5. Reducing the Defense budget? We can save so much money here without sacrificing our safety and security.

6. Free state college tuition/tuition debt forgiveness? One of the greatest periods in the growth of the middle class came as a result of the GI Bill after WWII.

7. Abortion rights.

8. Marijuana legalization.

And, btw, it's not all doom and gloom for your Trump supporters.

I have done my best to not outright lose any friendships over politics. But man did I have to swallow my tongue. And I have like a really, really big tongue Wingo that **** was difficult af.

What was totally crazy to me is that formerly reasonable person who I would have pleasant back and forths with about every topic under the sun would not hear me out about anything at all related to Trump politics. And we discussed politics a lot. From opposite ends of the spectrum, respectfully so. Now that is what we call Trump Derangement Syndrome or Orange Man Bad disease.

People have such a visceral reaction to the man, understandably so, good and bad. He's not a politician who minces words.

Yes being in business influences how I feel about politics. I have to analyze everything. Costs, benefits, short and long term. I'd prefer business people over lawyers. Lawyers are the worst, no offense. Things have to have an accounting but also of course empathy. In other words I would prefer a well meaning business person. It could very well be a Democrat. I might even prefer that, depending.

Climate Change: always happening cold and warm, man I'm sure has some influence but I don't believe the we have a good handle on the models. I don't believe the hype, basically, but I'm willing to listen to the types of proposals that go hand in hand with pollution which of course I'm concerned about. However, not interested in any kind of forced radical change in our lifestyle, which is what the Green New Deal would bring.

Besides, have you ever looked at how much energy we consume and how many windmills, solar panels it would take with current technology to cover it and how much space they would take up? Yeah, not happening any time soon.

Income Inequality: We have a huge problem. Tax corporations more? They'll move overseas. I like Trump's tariffs vs China and the renegotiated NAFTA. Brings those jobs back home. Greatly curtailing illegal immigration would help with this too. Raises wages of Americans. Curtailing those H1B visas which Trump has also done helps as well. The Globalist US Chamber Of Commerce is against it. The absolute heart of all this establishment resistance is Trump is costing them money.

Tax increases on the 1%, sure, why not. There are ramifications to tax increases though I'd need to see what the expected effects would be. It's easy to say **** those guys but what happens to the money when we do.

Police Reform: Replacing some police officers with unarmed traffic safety officers sounds attractive in principle but what happens when they pull over someone who gets violent? In general though I want police officers as much as possible out of the revenue collection business.

**** Civil Forfeiture laws and No Knock warrants they are being abused unbelievably. Reverse the militarization.

Foreign Policy: That is such a big can of worms. I want us out of the policing the world business. And it is a business. We should be reducing our footprints everywhere.

Reducing the Defense Budget: Tons of money to be cut here. We have military bases all over the damn place. Again, reducing our footprint. Trump did this in Germany when they didn't make their NATO commitments and the media screamed bloody murder. It's a business you know. Can't have anyone affecting the family business.

Free College/Debt Forgiveness: Absolutely **** not. Unless you're talking online education, then we can have an agreement. Why should I pay for someone else's ****. **** that. I want a free business if you get a free college education. Ridiculous.

Abortion Rights: First three months. After that only if there is some large problem with the fetus/pregnancy. After three months I'm worried about the cruelty to the fetus.

Marijuana Legalization: Should have been legal decades ago.

[infinite11285]

The Democratic Party has moved too far to the left, but the Republican Party isn't great either. I'm not sure who I'm voting for yet.

The radical Right created the radical Left. And now, the super saiyan of the radical Right (QAnon) has infiltrated politics. I can only imagine what the Left birthchild of that will be.

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

[BKlutch]

Here is an urgent waring from America's foremost forensic psychiatrist about Trump's mental status.

always wanted a shrink who looked like this, as long as she puts me on the couch. Anybody who doesn't agree with her should be forced to watch this repeatedly, until you're insane, too. Bwahaha

Read on Twitter

[Fat Kat]

The radical Right created the radical Left. And now, the super saiyan of the radical Right (QAnon) has infiltrated politics. I can only imagine what the Left birthchild of that will be.

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

Just so we’re clear, what exactly do you mean by the “far left”? What’s their ideology and how is it harmful?

[BallSacBounce]

tbh, it's not crazy to say establishment democrats have failed black america for ages. All these issues we are seeing now, are not new really new issues. They've been happening for decades.

Anyways, the GOP has Tim Scott, and that former democratic rep who decided to not rerun and instead endorse Trump. They also have a black senator likely to beat an incumbent democrat in Michigan. Eventually, one of these guys will run for President. And I bet it's the next term.

GOP has a lot going for them as far as black votes. I don't think it will be 20% like some poll are showing, but I think it will be between 10-14%

Biden saying "you ain't black if you don't vote for me, Latins are more diverse than blacks" really was dumb and cost him votes. We can't pretend it didn't. That's naive.

10-14% sounds about right to me. I'd be shocked if it was higher or lower than that range.

[Phish Tank]

The radical Right created the radical Left. And now, the super saiyan of the radical Right (QAnon) has infiltrated politics. I can only imagine what the Left birthchild of that will be.

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

just want to issue one quick mea culpa for an inappropriate comment I posted earlier in the thread...

back to the question... till the Far Left's finds their equivalent of Paul Ryan, I don't think they'll ever coalesce the power that's needed to take over the entire party. Sure, things are starting to seep in slowly, but some of the bigger policy goals (i.e. GND, M4A, BDS, super high tax hikes, abolishing police, etc etc etc) will probably just remain lofty goals.

Republicans care about power first, so they have no issue going all the way right if it means keeping seats and whatnot. Till the Far Left learns about power, that won't change.

[HarthorneWingo]

Ed Mah-key crushed er-a Joe Kennedy in the er-a Massachusetts Dem. U.S. Senate primary 55-36.

Goodbye putz.

[HarthorneWingo]

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

just want to issue one quick mea culpa for an inappropriate comment I posted earlier in the thread...

back to the question... till the Far Left's finds their equivalent of Paul Ryan, I don't think they'll ever coalesce the power that's needed to take over the entire party. Sure, things are starting to seep in slowly, but some of the bigger policy goals (i.e. GND, M4A, BDS, super high tax hikes, abolishing police, etc etc etc) will probably just remain lofty goals.

Republicans care about power first, so they have no issue going all the way right if it means keeping seats and whatnot. Till the Far Left learns about power, that won't change.

The "far left" finds "Paul Ryan"? WTF are you talking about? Holy shyt, man.

Please don't speak for progressive Democrats bc you're fcking it all up.

Super high tax hikes? How much and on who/what? You make it seems like progressives want to raise taxes on everyone when that is far from the truth. Progressive want to tax the wealthy who have gotten the great benefit of tax reform over the past 4 decades. They also want to tax corporations who have gotten away with murder during that same time frame. We also want to defund the Defense Department along with police departments.

Abolishing the police? Who's saying "abolish"? Why are you speaking this bullshyt? What's next, ANTIFA is a right wing fascist organization?

Maybe you should go check the polling on GND, M4A, College Tuition, etc. etc. etc. These are things that Americans across the board want. And we don't need any stinking Paul fcking Ryan, that's for sure. That guy was a fraud. We are building from the ground up. Perhaps you should sit back, watch, and learn before you make these type of declarations. Or next time, just ask me.

[HarthorneWingo]

But hey, let's not let our trolling duties get in the way of actually bothering to do a lick of research

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=joe+biden+stutter

3 simple words entered into Google: Joe Biden Stutter

but some people would rather lie to protect their vanity and remain too lazy to do any due diligence

So go ahead pretend you're right about the most wrong-headed things. Fantastic work you do here

Maybe he did as a child. So did I. But I presented 3 clips of him and no stutter. Find me a clip from Joe's early day because I've been following this cat's history since Anita Hill and I never heard him stutter once. And I know what a stutter is.

It's dementia.

If you had any self-awareness you'd be more careful about publicly stating who has dementia, but that irony would be lost on you

I have plenty of self awareness as my mother suffers from a mild case of it. I'm simply here to tell the truth. I'm not breaking news here. Once again, since you keep on ignoring this question, why do you think Biden stated that he would only serve one term? How many freaking videos does someone have to post of Joe Biden slipping and sliding all over the place for it to sink through you thick skull that he has mental deficiencies due to age? You have your head buried real deep in the sand.

Just don't @ me when he losses. This was the Obama okie doke. Two times the DNC fcked with us. What's your excuse then? Bernie Bros? FOH

[Clyde_Style]

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

just want to issue one quick mea culpa for an inappropriate comment I posted earlier in the thread...

back to the question... till the Far Left's finds their equivalent of Paul Ryan, I don't think they'll ever coalesce the power that's needed to take over the entire party. Sure, things are starting to seep in slowly, but some of the bigger policy goals (i.e. GND, M4A, BDS, super high tax hikes, abolishing police, etc etc etc) will probably just remain lofty goals.

Republicans care about power first, so they have no issue going all the way right if it means keeping seats and whatnot. Till the Far Left learns about power, that won't change.

As long as a significant number of people who self-identify as left operate under the delusion that playing emotional blackmail with their vote is somehow going to gain them the power they have never had they will continue to relegate themselves to the fringes.

Every bloc has to negotiate by saying we want X, Y or Z if you want our support, but the Twitter version of the left has an absolutist streak that manifests as juvenile sadism which is not strategy. It is just another vapid variation of the nihilism that is so prevalent in America these days.

I was hopeful the Democrats could build a coalition that is fairly progressive, but now I realize how soft the support will be after this particular election. The fringes of the Democrat voting spectrum will be highly susceptible to fracturing to the right and the left. The Republicans will reboot with a cleaned up front man and seduce the modern version of an American "moderate" which is now a fairly conservative and right leaning.

What I see now is a third of Americans are down with fascist white supremacy. About a third are down with working long-term with the Democratic party. And the other third is a random mix of disaffected voters that can lean in either direction, but who are not particularly inclined to collaboration of any kind. Many of those future swing voters are also prone to single issue justifications for their choices.

I still think Trump is so bad the Democrats should win this time, but based on the lack of vision of the American public I predict the center cannot hold.

And in a country like this, Ockham's Razor says the easiest path for the fickle voter will be to turn right and permanently concede their rights to authoritarian rule sometime in the next 20 years. The death of older GOP voters will not be offset by younger more liberal voters if their alienation prevents them from supporting and working with people of a more moderate bent than themselves. Thats what can easily cede the advantage back to the right in the not too distant future.

It might not turn out that way, but I see the warning signs loud and clear. The republic is very weak now. It won't take much for America to completely fail as a democracy if the defense of democratic process and constitutational rights are not seen as the common ground between us. If they are not vigorously defended regardless of the perceived purity of the POV of your fellow voter, everyone will lose. After this election, there won't be that much time left to figure that out.

[robillionaire]

Ed Mah-key crushed er-a Joe Kennedy in the er-a Massachusetts Dem. U.S. Senate primary 55-36.

Goodbye putz.

love to see that

[HarthorneWingo]

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

Just so we’re clear, what exactly do you mean by the “far left”? What’s their ideology and how is it harmful?

Forget it. The conversation went off the tracks.

[Clyde_Style]

Maybe he did as a child. So did I. But I presented 3 clips of him and no stutter. Find me a clip from Joe's early day because I've been following this cat's history since Anita Hill and I never heard him stutter once. And I know what a stutter is.

It's dementia.

If you had any self-awareness you'd be more careful about publicly stating who has dementia, but that irony would be lost on you

I have plenty of self awareness as my mother suffers from a mild case of it. I'm simply here to tell the truth. I'm not breaking news here. Once again, since you keep on ignoring this question, why do you think Biden stated that he would only serve one term? How many freaking videos does someone have to post of Joe Biden slipping and sliding all over the place for it to sink through you thick skull that he has mental deficiencies due to age? You have your head buried real deep in the sand.

Just don't @ me when he losses. This was the Obama okie doke. Two times the DNC fcked with us. What's your excuse then? Bernie Bros? FOH

You can drop the silly game of telling us how to judge you when the election is over. Everybody here already knows how they feel about your antics without your instructions.

You've been actively working to sabotage Biden the whole time. There really is no need to wait until November 4th to determine which side you're really on.

As I said in my post to Phish, juvenile sadism is sadly what someone such as yourself traffics in. Your agenda is not truly a political one. Your primary desire seems to be to use a public forum to exercise your nihilism.

It is not helpful and you never seem capable of moving the conversation forwards. I posted a thoughtful and decent-minded post about Biden's stuttering. You immediately took the low road. I don't know what afflicts you that you need to savage everything, but you do. I feel sorry for you

[Oscirus]

tbh, it's not crazy to say establishment democrats have failed black america for ages. All these issues we are seeing now, are not new really new issues. They've been happening for decades.

Anyways, the GOP has Tim Scott, and that former democratic rep who decided to not rerun and instead endorse Trump. They also have a black senator likely to beat an incumbent democrat in Michigan. Eventually, one of these guys will run for President. And I bet it's the next term.

GOP has a lot going for them as far as black votes. I don't think it will be 20% like some poll are showing, but I think it will be between 10-14%

Biden saying "you ain't black if you don't vote for me, Latins are more diverse than blacks" really was dumb and cost him votes. We can't pretend it didn't. That's naive.

Tim scott's made a career out of being the republicans one black friend, I believe that even he knows the presidency or even a primary win is impossible for him, a for this election, I think you underestimate how arrogant that trump really is. Every time he opens his mouth he gives black people more reasons not to vote for him.
They might not all go for biden but those that shift probably wont go for trump either.

[HarthorneWingo]

Trump is polling better with Black and Latino voters in '20 than in '16. Black vote +9, Latino vote +2.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/514174-poll-trump-approval-rises-among-black-hispanic-voters

[Oscirus]

Trump is polling better with Black and Latino voters in '20 than in '16. Black vote +9, Latino vote +2.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/514174-poll-trump-approval-rises-among-black-hispanic-voters

That poll has to do with approval of trumps job, not trump himself. That +9, +2 is since the last survey not the last election cycle.. Regardless good news for the trumpster, unfortunately in a poll held by the same people he's still down by 9.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/514394-poll-bidens-9-point-lead-holds-in-new-partial-post-convention.

[BallSacBounce]

You say that like the Dems didn't just nominate Joe Biden, who is about as radical left as a Y axis

The far left has almost no political power in America, and that's been the case since basically forever, while the far right is now the main base of the Republican party, as evidenced by the growing number of QAnon believers entering politics.

You are correct. My point is that the far Left has come in the response to the far Right, no?

just want to issue one quick mea culpa for an inappropriate comment I posted earlier in the thread...

back to the question... till the Far Left's finds their equivalent of Paul Ryan, I don't think they'll ever coalesce the power that's needed to take over the entire party. Sure, things are starting to seep in slowly, but some of the bigger policy goals (i.e. GND, M4A, BDS, super high tax hikes, abolishing police, etc etc etc) will probably just remain lofty goals.

Republicans care about power first, so they have no issue going all the way right if it means keeping seats and whatnot. Till the Far Left learns about power, that won't change.

Paul Ryan is as middle of the road ultra establishment as it comes. So go ahead, find your Paul Ryan but you won't be far left anymore if the left wing version of him is your leader. God I hate Paul Ryan.