Trade #7 for #14, #26, #30 and Tacko Fall

[ByeByeDre]

I've said it elsewhere: the odds are against #26 and #30 developing into NBA role players.

The last eight players taken 26 and 30......

Windler - missed season due to injury - jury’s out
Porter Jr - 10ppg and 23 mpg as a rookie - Easily a role player, perhaps better
Shamet - started over half the games this year on a title favorite
Spellman - bounced up and down, not quite role player level, at least yet
Swanigan - he’s going to be bounced out of the league
Hart - plays 27 minutes a game for the Pels, 10 ppg, role player/starter
Korkmaz - scored 10 a game this season on a playoff team. Role player
Jones - was Golden State’s starter last year until he got hurt, started half the games for Atlanta this year.

Not including the injured guy, six of the seven others would get role player minutes on the Pistons easily. Heck, four or five could start on this train wreck!

The best at 7 was Jamal Murray, the next best is Markkanen, followed by Carter Jr. And Coby White. Meh. The best at 14 is Bam, followed by Otto Porter Jr.

To me, for the Pistons, I would take Porter, Hart and Porter over Markkanen. Murray versus Bam, Shamet and Korkmaz? Up until a week ago I’d take the three. The Pistons need multiple good basketball players. Considering for every Murray there’s a Wendell Carter Jr, give me the three cost controlled picks.

You're looking at best case scenario though.

I'm of the opinion that acquiring more picks is exactly what we should do and it seems teams are willing to shift their picks in this Draft.

We can take advantage of that - assuming that's true of course.

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I tried to keep it fair in my comparisons - best versus best, second best versus second best.

In short, I don’t trust Detroit to find the next Murray, so all things being equal, with the sorry state the Pistons are in, three picks makes more sense than one. And if they can find a sucker for Kennard, get a first rounder for him too. He’s going to want an extension, and doesn’t deserve one. Collect as many picks as possible.

[MotownMadness]

I do want another late 1st cause I do like some guys in that area. But there's much smarter ways to acquire a late 1st from a contender without dropping that far back at the top, especially with all the capspace we have.

[mattao313]

Just take who you think is the best guy at 7 is, no need to try and be the smartest guy in the room. Its a draft every year this team needs to focus on getting better picks in those so we can finally get so top tier prospects for once.

[Manocad]

Could probably just buy one of those picks off Boston at the end of the first honestly. I doubt they use them all and will get rid of one for cheap like taking on Kanter for 30. No reason to drop 7 spots at the top over it.

Two more first rounders to drop from 7 to 14 in THIS draft? I fail to see the downside there.

Because it's not that bad of a draft or that unusual at 7. The draft just lacks a stand out star at the top like Davis or Zion and people are thinking that means the whole thing sucks.

There will still be players with All star potential at 7 and why not just pick up a extra pick taking on salary like we all wanted to do at the end of the 1st instead of dropping all the way down to 14?

They could still pick up the extra pick from Boston regardless. I’ll take three first rounders vs just #7 in almost any draft during a rebuild. The Pistons don’t need a star player right now; they need almost an entire team.

[MotownMadness]

Two more first rounders to drop from 7 to 14 in THIS draft? I fail to see the downside there.

Because it's not that bad of a draft or that unusual at 7. The draft just lacks a stand out star at the top like Davis or Zion and people are thinking that means the whole thing sucks.

There will still be players with All star potential at 7 and why not just pick up a extra pick taking on salary like we all wanted to do at the end of the 1st instead of dropping all the way down to 14?

They could still pick up the extra pick from Boston regardless. I’ll take three first rounders vs just #7 in almost any draft during a rebuild. The Pistons don’t need a star player right now; they need almost an entire team.

Disagree, you need a star or franchise player before worrying about the rest of the team. Can fill in role players through small trades, FA or acquiring late picks taking on salary like last years draft.

There's even contenders with all kinds of 2nd round picks as well that they won't be needing (I think Philly has like 4 of them this year).

[mattao313]

Because it's not that bad of a draft or that unusual at 7. The draft just lacks a stand out star at the top like Davis or Zion and people are thinking that means the whole thing sucks.

There will still be players with All star potential at 7 and why not just pick up a extra pick taking on salary like we all wanted to do at the end of the 1st instead of dropping all the way down to 14?

They could still pick up the extra pick from Boston regardless. I’ll take three first rounders vs just #7 in almost any draft during a rebuild. The Pistons don’t need a star player right now; they need almost an entire team.

Disagree, you need a star or franchise player before worrying about the rest of the team. Can fill in role players through small trades, FA or acquiring late picks taking on salary like last years draft.

There's even contenders with all kinds of 2nd round picks as well that they won't be needing (I think Philly has like 4 of them this year).

Agreed you need that franchise player (probably 2) first so you can see how you want to build the team to their strengths and weaknesses.

[Manocad]

They could still pick up the extra pick from Boston regardless. I’ll take three first rounders vs just #7 in almost any draft during a rebuild. The Pistons don’t need a star player right now; they need almost an entire team.

Disagree, you need a star or franchise player before worrying about the rest of the team. Can fill in role players through small trades, FA or acquiring late picks taking on salary like last years draft.

There's even contenders with all kinds of 2nd round picks as well that they won't be needing (I think Philly has like 4 of them this year).

Agreed you need that franchise player (probably 2) first so you can see how you want to build the team to their strengths and weaknesses.

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that’s the opposite way to build a team. Four guys who all mesh requires one superstar who fits in to be great. Starting with the superstar means you have to find the other four players who mesh before greatness is achieved, all the while paying superstar money to a superstar who may not stick around if you don’t get it right pretty quickly. Case in point—Lebron.

[mattao313]

Disagree, you need a star or franchise player before worrying about the rest of the team. Can fill in role players through small trades, FA or acquiring late picks taking on salary like last years draft.

There's even contenders with all kinds of 2nd round picks as well that they won't be needing (I think Philly has like 4 of them this year).

Agreed you need that franchise player (probably 2) first so you can see how you want to build the team to their strengths and weaknesses.

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that’s the opposite way to build a team. Four guys who all mesh requires one superstar who fits in to be great. Starting with the superstar means you have to find the other four players who mesh before greatness is achieved, all the while paying superstar money to a superstar who may not stick around if you don’t get it right pretty quickly. Case in point—Lebron.

If you cant put a good supporting cast around your star in 8 years ( rookie contract and first big contract) something went wrong. In that time you should been able to make trades and draft other guys. I guess both ways could work, but already having the team in place what you are saying is basically trying to draft a superstar later in the draft. By then we'll already have a decent team kinda like Boston but then again they got really lucky.

[Manocad]

Agreed you need that franchise player (probably 2) first so you can see how you want to build the team to their strengths and weaknesses.

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that’s the opposite way to build a team. Four guys who all mesh requires one superstar who fits in to be great. Starting with the superstar means you have to find the other four players who mesh before greatness is achieved, all the while paying superstar money to a superstar who may not stick around if you don’t get it right pretty quickly. Case in point—Lebron.

If you cant put a good supporting cast around your star in 8 years ( rookie contract and first big contract) something went wrong. In that time you should been able to make trades and draft other guys. I guess both ways could work, but already having the team in place what you are saying is basically trying to draft a superstar later in the draft. By then we'll already have a decent team kinda like Boston but then again they got really lucky.

I never said anything about drafting a superstar late in the draft. The more draft picks you have the higher the chances are you'll be able to build a solid team of players all on their rookie contracts but just not quite good enough to take out the conference finals/NBA finals-level teams. Then you fill in your last needs via free agency and sign an established superstar to take the team over the top.

I'm not saying Cleveland didn't do a lousy job, but my point still stands. You're given time to build a solid team first then add the superstar last as long as you're doing it right and making progress. The fans stay interested and enthusiastic because not only are they watching a team of young players get better and better, but it's a "built" team they have loyalty to so they're more likely to stay patient.

[mattao313]

It’s a matter of opinion. I think that’s the opposite way to build a team. Four guys who all mesh requires one superstar who fits in to be great. Starting with the superstar means you have to find the other four players who mesh before greatness is achieved, all the while paying superstar money to a superstar who may not stick around if you don’t get it right pretty quickly. Case in point—Lebron.

If you cant put a good supporting cast around your star in 8 years ( rookie contract and first big contract) something went wrong. In that time you should been able to make trades and draft other guys. I guess both ways could work, but already having the team in place what you are saying is basically trying to draft a superstar later in the draft. By then we'll already have a decent team kinda like Boston but then again they got really lucky.

I never said anything about drafting a superstar late in the draft. The more draft picks you have the higher the chances are you'll be able to build a solid team of players all on their rookie contracts but just not quite good enough to take out the conference finals/NBA finals-level teams. Then you fill in your last needs via free agency and sign an established superstar to take the team over the top.

I'm not saying Cleveland didn't do a lousy job, but my point still stands. You're given time to build a solid team first then add the superstar last as long as you're doing it right and making progress. The fans stay interested and enthusiastic because not only are they watching a team of young players get better and better, but it's a "built" team they have loyalty to so they're more likely to stay patient.

Thats the thing though I honestly cant see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place. Thats why I'd rather draft that guy cause he has no choice but to play here. The other way is trading for one but that would break the team up. Also I dont think its really possible to have a team full of rookie scale guys.

[Crymson]

I've said it elsewhere: the odds are against #26 and #30 developing into NBA role players.

The last eight players taken 26 and 30......

Windler - missed season due to injury - jury’s out
Porter Jr - 10ppg and 23 mpg as a rookie - Easily a role player, perhaps better
Shamet - started over half the games this year on a title favorite
Spellman - bounced up and down, not quite role player level, at least yet
Swanigan - he’s going to be bounced out of the league
Hart - plays 27 minutes a game for the Pels, 10 ppg, role player/starter
Korkmaz - scored 10 a game this season on a playoff team. Role player
Jones - was Golden State’s starter last year until he got hurt, started half the games for Atlanta this year.

Not including the injured guy, six of the seven others would get role player minutes on the Pistons easily. Heck, four or five could start on this train wreck!

The best at 7 was Jamal Murray, the next best is Markkanen, followed by Carter Jr. And Coby White. Meh. The best at 14 is Bam, followed by Otto Porter Jr.

To me, for the Pistons, I would take Porter, Hart and Porter over Markkanen. Murray versus Bam, Shamet and Korkmaz? Up until a week ago I’d take the three. The Pistons need multiple good basketball players. Considering for every Murray there’s a Wendell Carter Jr, give me the three cost controlled picks.

Those are all role players, and the teams involved beat the odds by finding them. The Pistons will not succeed on the back of a group of role players. If the Pistons want to go anywhere, they'll need the sort of solid, lead talent on which they've been so desperately short since 2008. For that matter, they'll need to do one better than the Going to Work Pistons: they need star talent.

It's possible that Porter Jr. will become more than a role player, but he's on the Cavs because Stefanski is a nitwit.

[Manocad]

If you cant put a good supporting cast around your star in 8 years ( rookie contract and first big contract) something went wrong. In that time you should been able to make trades and draft other guys. I guess both ways could work, but already having the team in place what you are saying is basically trying to draft a superstar later in the draft. By then we'll already have a decent team kinda like Boston but then again they got really lucky.

I never said anything about drafting a superstar late in the draft. The more draft picks you have the higher the chances are you'll be able to build a solid team of players all on their rookie contracts but just not quite good enough to take out the conference finals/NBA finals-level teams. Then you fill in your last needs via free agency and sign an established superstar to take the team over the top.

I'm not saying Cleveland didn't do a lousy job, but my point still stands. You're given time to build a solid team first then add the superstar last as long as you're doing it right and making progress. The fans stay interested and enthusiastic because not only are they watching a team of young players get better and better, but it's a "built" team they have loyalty to so they're more likely to stay patient.

Thats the thing though I honestly cant see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place. Thats why I'd rather draft that guy cause he has no choice but to play here. The other way is trading for one but that would break the team up. Also I dont think its really possible to have a team full of rookie scale guys.

I also never said it had to be an entire team made up of rookie scale guys. Let me try this again...the more draft picks you have, the more chances you have of building a team with a lot of young, cheap players. Make sense now? Then a couple/few years later you've got plenty of cap room to get free agents to fill in the gaps and a star to put the team over the top.

If you "can't honestly see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place," you must not have followed sports very long. There are only two things required to get a superstar, and two alone--the chance at a championship, and money. Period. Granted, if five other teams offer the same chance and the same money, or maybe a little less money but a better chance at championship, sure, Detroit might not get the nod. But don't think for a second think that there's any NBA superstar out there who hasn't won a championship yet that would say, "I don't care if Detroit DOES have the best shot at a championship and can give me more money than anyone else; I'm not going there."

[mattao313]

I never said anything about drafting a superstar late in the draft. The more draft picks you have the higher the chances are you'll be able to build a solid team of players all on their rookie contracts but just not quite good enough to take out the conference finals/NBA finals-level teams. Then you fill in your last needs via free agency and sign an established superstar to take the team over the top.

I'm not saying Cleveland didn't do a lousy job, but my point still stands. You're given time to build a solid team first then add the superstar last as long as you're doing it right and making progress. The fans stay interested and enthusiastic because not only are they watching a team of young players get better and better, but it's a "built" team they have loyalty to so they're more likely to stay patient.

Thats the thing though I honestly cant see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place. Thats why I'd rather draft that guy cause he has no choice but to play here. The other way is trading for one but that would break the team up. Also I dont think its really possible to have a team full of rookie scale guys.

I also never said it had to be an entire team made up of rookie scale guys. Let me try this again...the more draft picks you have, the more chances you have of building a team with a lot of young, cheap players. Make sense now? Then a couple/few years later you've got plenty of cap room to get free agents to fill in the gaps and a star to put the team over the top.

If you "can't honestly see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place," you must not have followed sports very long. There are only two things required to get a superstar, and two alone--the chance at a championship, and money. Period. Granted, if five other teams offer the same chance and the same money, or maybe a little less money but a better chance at championship, sure, Detroit might not get the nod. But don't think for a second think that there's any NBA superstar out there who hasn't won a championship yet that would say, "I don't care if Detroit DOES have the best shot at a championship and can give me more money than anyone else; I'm not going there."

What team like Detroit has signed a Superstar player? None this is the NBA not MLB or NFL it works different. Kawhi didnt even resign after winning a Championship with the Raptors. Just because you have a bunch of picks doesn't necessarily mean your gonna get good players though the higher the pick the better chance of getting a good player as the pool of talent is much smaller.

[Manocad]

Thats the thing though I honestly cant see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place. Thats why I'd rather draft that guy cause he has no choice but to play here. The other way is trading for one but that would break the team up. Also I dont think its really possible to have a team full of rookie scale guys.

I also never said it had to be an entire team made up of rookie scale guys. Let me try this again...the more draft picks you have, the more chances you have of building a team with a lot of young, cheap players. Make sense now? Then a couple/few years later you've got plenty of cap room to get free agents to fill in the gaps and a star to put the team over the top.

If you "can't honestly see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place," you must not have followed sports very long. There are only two things required to get a superstar, and two alone--the chance at a championship, and money. Period. Granted, if five other teams offer the same chance and the same money, or maybe a little less money but a better chance at championship, sure, Detroit might not get the nod. But don't think for a second think that there's any NBA superstar out there who hasn't won a championship yet that would say, "I don't care if Detroit DOES have the best shot at a championship and can give me more money than anyone else; I'm not going there."

What team like Detroit has signed a Superstar player? None this is the NBA not MLB or NFL it works different. Kawhi didnt even resign after winning a Championship with the Raptors. Just because you have a bunch of picks doesn't necessarily mean your gonna get good players though the higher the pick the better chance of getting a good player as the pool of talent is much smaller.

You're not paying attention. I never said the Pistons could sign a superstar right now, and I don't think they should. I also said there wasn't a superstar out there who HADN'T won a championship who would say no to Detroit IF they gave him the best shot at a championship AND they were able to pay him the most money...WHICH IS NOT RIGHT NOW. The assumption is, as I said, that the Pistons would have first built a good team through the draft and by adding free agents to fill in the gaps, THEN signed a superstar. Talking about what Kawhi did after he won a championship has no bearing.

[mattao313]

I also never said it had to be an entire team made up of rookie scale guys. Let me try this again...the more draft picks you have, the more chances you have of building a team with a lot of young, cheap players. Make sense now? Then a couple/few years later you've got plenty of cap room to get free agents to fill in the gaps and a star to put the team over the top.

If you "can't honestly see a superstar signing here even if we have a great team in place," you must not have followed sports very long. There are only two things required to get a superstar, and two alone--the chance at a championship, and money. Period. Granted, if five other teams offer the same chance and the same money, or maybe a little less money but a better chance at championship, sure, Detroit might not get the nod. But don't think for a second think that there's any NBA superstar out there who hasn't won a championship yet that would say, "I don't care if Detroit DOES have the best shot at a championship and can give me more money than anyone else; I'm not going there."

What team like Detroit has signed a Superstar player? None this is the NBA not MLB or NFL it works different. Kawhi didnt even resign after winning a Championship with the Raptors. Just because you have a bunch of picks doesn't necessarily mean your gonna get good players though the higher the pick the better chance of getting a good player as the pool of talent is much smaller.

You're not paying attention. I never said the Pistons could sign a superstar right now, and I don't think they should. I also said there wasn't a superstar out there who HADN'T won a championship who would say no to Detroit IF they gave him the best shot at a championship AND they were able to pay him the most money...WHICH IS NOT RIGHT NOW. The assumption is, as I said, that the Pistons would have first built a good team through the draft and by adding free agents to fill in the gaps, THEN signed a superstar. Talking about what Kawhi did after he won a championship has no bearing.

So your banking on some hypothetical superstar wanting to come here yeah I dont see it. We can agree to disagree on that. Id rather just try and draft him.

[Manocad]

What team like Detroit has signed a Superstar player? None this is the NBA not MLB or NFL it works different. Kawhi didnt even resign after winning a Championship with the Raptors. Just because you have a bunch of picks doesn't necessarily mean your gonna get good players though the higher the pick the better chance of getting a good player as the pool of talent is much smaller.

You're not paying attention. I never said the Pistons could sign a superstar right now, and I don't think they should. I also said there wasn't a superstar out there who HADN'T won a championship who would say no to Detroit IF they gave him the best shot at a championship AND they were able to pay him the most money...WHICH IS NOT RIGHT NOW. The assumption is, as I said, that the Pistons would have first built a good team through the draft and by adding free agents to fill in the gaps, THEN signed a superstar. Talking about what Kawhi did after he won a championship has no bearing.

So your banking on some hypothetical superstar wanting to come here yeah I dont see it. We can agree to disagree on that. Id rather just try and draft him.

So you're banking on drafting a hypothetical player who becomes a superstar just when you need one...yeah, I don't see it. We can agree to disagree on that. I'd rather just try to sign a known superstar.

[stylesofpunk]

Got bored and kind of came up with a rebuild meets this trade offer

Rose to Lakers for Caruso/Kuzma/28

Why: Lakers get a good PG for Bron and AD and we get a late draft pick and a couple solid roleplayers in Kuzma and Caruso


Griffin/Kennard for Batum/Monk/32

Why: Hornets get a "star" player in Griffin and a good shooting guard in Kennard while getting rid of Batum while sacrificing Monk/32


Snell/Thomas for Dieng/Jazz 21 1st

Why: Grizzlies get rid of Dieng and get a defensive SF and a lotto ticket on Thomas while giving up a late 1st in 2021


7 for 14/26/30/Kanter/lotto protected 22 1st that turns into 2 2nds in 23/24

Why: Boston gets help getting under the luxury tax and moves up in the draft for someone while Detroit moves down picks up a potential asset in the 22 1st and gets some extra picks in the draft


14: Nesmith
26: Ramsey
28: Nwora
30: Pokusevski
32: Winston


Resign wood and will still have cap room with a team we just go out and let them play


Wood/Kanter/Pokusevski(if we release Dieng if not we let him sit for a year overseas and put Dieng here)
Kuzma/Patton
Duumbouya/Brown/Nwora/Batum
Monk/Nesmith/Svi
Caruso/Ramsey/Winston


Most likely guys like Winston and Nwora start in the G League with Brown backing up Caruso with Ramsey getting some spot duty while Svi backs up Doumbouya

It is a young team who would get to go out and work hard and if we lose then we do and have a good pick and guys like Kanter/Batum/Dieng all coming off the cap. Kuzma/Caruso/Monk do as well

2021 we could potentially have Wood/Pokusevski/Doumbouya/Nwora/Nesmith/Ramsey/Winston on the books with a bunch of cap space to do things with along with a good pick.

[Crymson]

Got bored and kind of came up with a rebuild meets this trade offer

Rose to Lakers for Caruso/Kuzma/28

Why: Lakers get a good PG for Bron and AD and we get a late draft pick and a couple solid roleplayers in Kuzma and Caruso

Lakers get a PG who cannot play with AD or LeBron, because he can't play off the ball.

Griffin/Kennard for Batum/Monk/32

Why: Hornets get a "star" player in Griffin and a good shooting guard in Kennard while getting rid of Batum while sacrificing Monk/32

The Hornets get an injury-plagued star coming off the worst season of his career, and who plays the same position as PJ Washington. The Pistons get screwed in losing Kennard for what amounts to nothing. Monk is nothing special.

Snell/Thomas for Dieng/Jazz 21 1st

Why: Grizzlies get rid of Dieng and get a defensive SF and a lotto ticket on Thomas while giving up a late 1st in 2021

Dieng is on an expiring deal; the Grizzlies are in no hurry to be rid of him. Snell is not a good defensive player; he's a disaster from within the arc. Thomas has shown nothing yet. The Grizzlies don't need to trade away a first-round pick for any of this.

7 for 14/26/30/Kanter/lotto protected 22 1st that turns into 2 2nds in 23/24

Why: Boston gets help getting under the luxury tax and moves up in the draft for someone while Detroit moves down picks up a potential asset in the 22 1st and gets some extra picks in the draft

Boston will already be under the luxury tax line. And again, the Pistons get screwed. 26/30 are not picks with good odds of producing a good player, so this is basically #7 for #14 and a couple of scratch-off lottery tickets. There's solid talent in the top ten in this draft; the talent that'll be available at #14 may well be not so solid at all.

Resign wood and will still have cap room with a team we just go out and let them play

This whole thing reads like a 2K rebuild.

[Uncle Mxy]

It'd be a fine trade if we had an intent to pair #26/#30/maybe Tacko (kinda like the idea of having Tacko, though) with existing players to execute some further trades right away.

[Pharaoh]

You're not paying attention. I never said the Pistons could sign a superstar right now, and I don't think they should. I also said there wasn't a superstar out there who HADN'T won a championship who would say no to Detroit IF they gave him the best shot at a championship AND they were able to pay him the most money...WHICH IS NOT RIGHT NOW. The assumption is, as I said, that the Pistons would have first built a good team through the draft and by adding free agents to fill in the gaps, THEN signed a superstar. Talking about what Kawhi did after he won a championship has no bearing.

So your banking on some hypothetical superstar wanting to come here yeah I dont see it. We can agree to disagree on that. Id rather just try and draft him.

So you're banking on drafting a hypothetical player who becomes a superstar just when you need one...yeah, I don't see it. We can agree to disagree on that. I'd rather just try to sign a known superstar.

I understand your POV with team building and absolutely agree:

The Nets and Miami are the models to follow. Yes they have location advantages we don't but:

The Nets were a basket case when Marks became GM. Had already traded their own firsts - Lotto picks - to Boston.

The fact they built a organisation and roster that was able to attract 2 marquee free agents? That's the best case scenario for Weaver right there.

I'm of the opinion that late firsts or early 2nds are available in every Draft, especially 2020.

I'd be looking to take on salary for those picks if required.

I'm of the opinion we should trade Luke for a top 15-20 pick in this Draft.

Agree we don't need a entire roster of rookie scale guys but I do believe we should focus on player development the next 3 years.

We don't really know what Wood, Sekou, Svi & Brown could become...yet.

Adding 3 rookies to that (7, via Luke trade, via taking on salary) gives us a base to start from.

2021 & 2022 Drafts will define us. Finding pieces between now and then is my goal if I'm Weaver

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