2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

[Midw35t]

As for all the small ball no big man league talk.

You know what the Lakers, OKC, etc. Dont have? KAT. AD does not shoot as well, nor does he have the guaranteed post buckets like KAT. Won't even get into Adams.

Put Tucker on KAT for a series. Then Covington guards Wiseman?

Yeah, I'll take that.

Our team would out-rebound, out-size any other team, without losing shooting.

[shangrila]

While the board doesn't set up for Minnesota to draft Toppin, he's still has a great chance of being a great player. He excels at every shooting metric (at the rim, paint, mid-range, three-point shooting). He shot 43-103 on three-pointers in college. I don't think 103 is a low number.

103 is a low number when you realise it came in 64 career games. That averages out to 1.6 attempts per game which is miniscule, especially for a supposedly great shooter.

But that isn't even the real issue. It's his relatively low FT% that caps his short term shooting potential. You're not an elite shooter if you can only make 70% of your FTs.

He struggles defensively but it's important to remember he had a late growth spurt. He was a wing throughout high school. He has only played in the paint for a couple of years. Sure, he could be awful guarding the pick and roll or he could get better as he plays closer to the basket more. Guys like Okongwu have played in the post throughout high school and college. It's second nature to them. Toppin is still learning. Just look at how much his rebounding approved from his freshman to sophomore year.

This is a giant reach and addresses none of the criticisms I've levelled against him.

Even if I buy this, it doesn't explain why he sucks so bad guarding the perimeter. Hell, he should be a natural at it by your logic. Nor does it address his poor lower body strength and his high/tight hips that impact his ability to get leverage and move laterally. These are fundamental issues that, for the overwhelming majority of prospects, are impossible to fix. Are you willing to bet Toppin is that 1 in 1000 that can? I'm not. Especially when those issues might affect him offensively, such as in post ups.

Nor, again, does it address the lack of effort or technique he showed when rebounding. Even his "improvement" (a whole 1 extra board per40...yay) isn't enough to make me confident he'll be a factor on that end when he loses the overwhelming physical advantage he enjoyed in college.

Sam Venicie said he talked to a scout who told him

"For the past three years, Toppin has been the most improved played in prep and high school basketball - going from zero star recruit to getting a offer from Dayton to being a fringe draft prospect to a lottery pick. The reality is that we have no idea what Toppin's ceiling is and we should stop guessing wrong."

Everyone says he's the one most likely to be a bust. I disagree, I see him as the player most likely to overplay his draft slot as he drops to a team like Sacramento or Portland and puts up 20 points a game.

Honestly, I can see that too. He could easily put up 20ppg on the right team (many can under those circumstances, but I digress). The issue is that he gives all of that back if not more on the defensive end. So you have to ask yourself whether that offence is worth that defence?

I say no. You have to be special to justify that and he isn't. So what's the point? If you want empty numbers you don't have to waste a lottery pick on that.

[shangrila]

Here's a YouTube comparing Wiseman very favorably to Antetokounmpo when he entered the league. He could develop into a taller version of the man.

Watch on YouTube

;t=213s

They end of that video is the issue I have with all this Wiseman talk.

Literally any 7 footer can look amazing in a gym. They play clips of Mitchell Robinson doing the same stuff everyone's drooling over Wiseman doing (OMFG was that a CROSSOVER?!). He displayed none of this stuff in game, on top of showing below average at best lateral quickness so...how does anyone expect him to play the 4 full time? I just don't buy it.

He's interesting as a C prospect, I'll give him that. But we have Towns there so it's a moot point.

[minimus]

Giannis was 6'9", 196 lbs skinny teenager. He builds his game around exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. I dont see here any similarity with Wiseman. It looks like another attempt to "sell" a prospect.

[KGdaBom]

Giannis was 6'9", 196 lbs skinny teenager. He builds his game around exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. I dont see here any similarity with Wiseman. It looks like another attempt to "sell" a prospect.

Wiseman is 7'1" with 7'6" wingspan so even more exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. What is their dissimilar other than even more length?

[KGdaBom]

Here's a YouTube comparing Wiseman very favorably to Antetokounmpo when he entered the league. He could develop into a taller version of the man.

Watch on YouTube

;t=213s

They end of that video is the issue I have with all this Wiseman talk.

Literally any 7 footer can look amazing in a gym. They play clips of Mitchell Robinson doing the same stuff everyone's drooling over Wiseman doing (OMFG was that a CROSSOVER?!). He displayed none of this stuff in game, on top of showing below average at best lateral quickness so...how does anyone expect him to play the 4 full time? I just don't buy it.

He's interesting as a C prospect, I'll give him that. But we have Towns there so it's a moot point.

Wiseman is not a finished product. What you see now is not what you're going to get in the end. Picture what he can be with reasonable expectations of improvement over the course of his rookie contract. I can see a guy who could be worth a max contract at the end of his rookie contract. If KAT and Wiseman are both talented they can play together. I believe they're both talented. Call KAT the PF if you prefer.

[minimus]

Giannis was 6'9", 196 lbs skinny teenager. He builds his game around exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. I dont see here any similarity with Wiseman. It looks like another attempt to "sell" a prospect.

Wiseman is 7'1" with 7'6" wingspan so even more exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. What is their dissimilar other than even more length?

Mmm... Everything else?

[KGdaBom]

Giannis was 6'9", 196 lbs skinny teenager. He builds his game around exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. I dont see here any similarity with Wiseman. It looks like another attempt to "sell" a prospect.

Wiseman is 7'1" with 7'6" wingspan so even more exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. What is their dissimilar other than even more length?

Mmm... Everything else?

What is the everything else that is dissimilar? Athleticism similar. Ball handling similar. Wiseman is a better shooter coming into the league than Giannis so I guess that is dissimilar. Wherever they're dissimilar at the time of entering the league Wiseman seems to be superior.
Giannis continued to improve after entering the league to become the MVP he is now. Why not believe that Wiseman can also improve considering he's starting at a higher level?

[minimus]

Wiseman is 7'1" with 7'6" wingspan so even more exceptional length combined with agility and mobility. What is their dissimilar other than even more length?

Mmm... Everything else?

What is the everything else that is dissimilar? Athletic check. Ball handling? Check. Wiseman is a better shooter coming into the league than Giannis so I guess that is dissimilar. Wherever they're dissimilar at the time of entering the league Wiseman seems to be superior.

If your assessment is correct then we will see first 7'1" player in NBA history who will dominate by dribbling, passing and shooting

[KGdaBom]

Mmm... Everything else?

What is the everything else that is dissimilar? Athletic check. Ball handling? Check. Wiseman is a better shooter coming into the league than Giannis so I guess that is dissimilar. Wherever they're dissimilar at the time of entering the league Wiseman seems to be superior.

If your assessment is correct then we will se first 7'1" player in NBA history who will dominate by dribbling, passing and shooting

I'm not saying that will happen. I'm just comparing the two based on ability/skill/physical assets entering the league.
I think he could dominate with those things assuming reasonable improvement over the years combined with his extraordinary length. Length is a good thing. It seems the small ball craze have some people thinking length is detrimental.

You haven't answered my question about Giannis' lack of shooting ability. Per your words non shooters can be ignored by the defense allowing them to shut down the offense. Or just maybe that is a guideline and not a rule.

[minimus]

What is the everything else that is dissimilar? Athletic check. Ball handling? Check. Wiseman is a better shooter coming into the league than Giannis so I guess that is dissimilar. Wherever they're dissimilar at the time of entering the league Wiseman seems to be superior.

If your assessment is correct then we will se first 7'1" player in NBA history who will dominate by dribbling, passing and shooting

I'm not saying that will happen. I'm just comparing the two based on ability/skill/physical assets entering the league.
I think he could dominate with those things assuming reasonable improvement over the years combined with his extraordinary length. Length is a good thing. It seems the small ball craze have some people thinking length is detrimental.

You haven't answered my question about Giannis' lack of shooting ability. Per your words non shooters can be ignored by the defense allowing them to shut down the offense. Or just maybe that is a guideline and not a rule.

This extraordinary length comes at price. Have you ever thought why Giannis tries to start his dribbling right after defensive rebound and attack defense in transition rather than beating them in halfcourt?

[younggunsmn]

I'm all-in on Wiseman, for this reason:
He is the only player I could see myself seriously regretting passing on down the road.
His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.
Edwards could become a 25 ppg scorer and ball a 10 assist guy, and It wouldnt bother me much if we passed on them.
I see too many negatives with both.

Look at the guys we most regret passing on:
Curry - was a phenomenal college shooter. knock was size and competition.
Murray - was a very good college shooter.
Klay - great college shooter
Cousins - physical specimen
Giannis - physical specimen
Gobert - physical specimen

Wiseman falls into the category of incredibly physically gifted.
He has the potential to be even better than KAT, who is what he is defensively at this point.
He has tyson chandler length and agility with what looks like a very smooth jump shot.
Watching that video with footage from when he was 15 years old, you can see the growth and improvement.
If he had played a full season, there would be no question who goes 1st.
If you have a KAT or a Zion or Ja Morant there, its a different story.
The rest of the guys in this draft just dont have that glaring upside.
He is cut a little high for a guy who is 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan, which should help a little with his agility.

Worse yet, if we pass on him, and he ends up on the Warriors, where is is a perfect fit, it is an even bigger disaster.
It's probably why the espn talking heads are trying to push edwards or ball down our throats, they want Wiseman on the Warriors.

You are looking at Wiseman and KAT sharing the floor for 10-20 mins a game, depending on how slowly we bring him along.
That shouldnt be a problem.
I like having 2 beast offensive rebounders out there too with all the 3's we will be chucking.
And when you struggle defensively, it's super important to grab every defensive board.
It was so frustrating at points last year watching all the extra possessions we were giving up while trying to get back into the game.

I see his floor as Clint Capela and his ceiling as Anthony Davis.
He needs to get stronger in the post, but that part of the game is disappearing.
At worst he is an incredibly effective "slash 5" who sets picks and rim runs.


I'd like to see us draft wiseman, re-sign beasley, and trade or sign for another deadeye shooter.

So this is my mock offseason:
Draft Wiseman @ 1
Re-sign beasley 4-56
Target and trade for Buddy Hield
Johsnon + Culver +33
Or Johsnon + Spellman + 17 for Hield + 35
If we keep 17 , draft poniskarevsky if he's there, if not Theo Maledon as developmental PG.
33 or 33+35, look for backup 4/backup PG, this draft is loaded with good 4's and 5's.
Offer Juancho QO and pass if he gets a multyear offer sheet.

With Russell, Beasley, Hield, Kat you have 4 potential 40% 3 pt shooters.
Wiseman setting picks, gobbling boards, and diving to the basket keeping teams honest.

It seemed like Hield was getting pushed out of the rotation last year. He has 3 years of 40%+ 3 point shooting under his belt.
Is making 24 mil next year, but on a declining 4 year contract where the last year is 21.
With a new regime in sacramento he might be a guy we could target, who fits our scheme and is relatively attainable.

It's not my money, and it goes against our history when it comes to adding $,
but I feel we need to use James Johsnon's expiring to add a player,
and keep the ability to add a 20 mil+ player available,
because we will lose it if we just let him expire because we will likely be capped out the next few years.
Like the Warriors did with Wiggins.

[KGdaBom]

If your assessment is correct then we will se first 7'1" player in NBA history who will dominate by dribbling, passing and shooting

I'm not saying that will happen. I'm just comparing the two based on ability/skill/physical assets entering the league.
I think he could dominate with those things assuming reasonable improvement over the years combined with his extraordinary length. Length is a good thing. It seems the small ball craze have some people thinking length is detrimental.

You haven't answered my question about Giannis' lack of shooting ability. Per your words non shooters can be ignored by the defense allowing them to shut down the offense. Or just maybe that is a guideline and not a rule.

This extraordinary length comes at price. Have you ever thought why Giannis tries to start his dribbling right after defensive rebound and attack defense in transition rather than beating them in halfcourt?

So Giannis sucks and should not be in the game because he makes it too easy for opponent to shut them down. Got it.

Wiseman should start dribbling right away to beat opponent in transition and so should Ball and so should Edwards and so should Avdija because all of them are non shooters. Got it.

Seriously there's nothing detrimental about length. No price. If any player can't ball handle, pass, shoot, rebound, defend that's where the price is. It has nothing to do with length. It has to do with skill. Should we just draft Nesmith with #1 overall? He is the best shooter of everybody.

[minimus]

I'm not saying that will happen. I'm just comparing the two based on ability/skill/physical assets entering the league.
I think he could dominate with those things assuming reasonable improvement over the years combined with his extraordinary length. Length is a good thing. It seems the small ball craze have some people thinking length is detrimental.

You haven't answered my question about Giannis' lack of shooting ability. Per your words non shooters can be ignored by the defense allowing them to shut down the offense. Or just maybe that is a guideline and not a rule.

This extraordinary length comes at price. Have you ever thought why Giannis tries to start his dribbling right after defensive rebound and attack defense in transition rather than beating them in halfcourt?

So Giannis sucks and should not be in the game because he makes it too easy for opponent to shut them down. Got it.

Wiseman should start dribbling right away to beat opponent in transition and so should Ball and so should Edwards and so should Avdija because all of them are non shooters. Got it.

Seriously there's nothing detrimental about length. No price. If any player can't ball handle, pass, shoot, rebound, defend that's where the price is. It has nothing to do with length. It has to do with skill. Should we just draft Nesmith with #1 overall? He is the best shooter of everybody.

1) Giannis needs a LOT of space to slash to the basket because he is big and long ballhandler, with TWO dribbles he can go the basket from three point line. The problem is that you cant stretch the floor more than actual size of the halfcourt. That is why Giannis prefers to attack team in transition when defense is stretched to court LENGTH, not only WIDTH. Giannis is a specific player who NEEDS specific type of system around him. And yes, teams are able to adjust and shut him down.

2) I did not say that Wiseman is a bad prospect, I said that a) I don't see Giannis comparison at all. b) I doubt that it makes sense to draft him and play next to KAT

3) It might be my bad English, but I have a feeling that when you don't have arguments you start clowning me. Either way I am an expert, so I will not defend my opinion and continue detrimental discussions. Au revoir, Monsieur

[KGdaBom]

I'm all-in on Wiseman, for this reason:
He is the only player I could see myself seriously regretting passing on down the road.
His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.
Edwards could become a 25 ppg scorer and ball a 10 assist guy, and It wouldnt bother me much if we passed on them.
I see too many negatives with both.

Look at the guys we most regret passing on:
Curry - was a phenomenal college shooter. knock was size and competition.
Murray - was a very good college shooter.
Klay - great college shooter
Cousins - physical specimen
Giannis - physical specimen
Gobert - physical specimen

Wiseman falls into the category of incredibly physically gifted.
He has the potential to be even better than KAT, who is what he is defensively at this point.
He has tyson chandler length and agility with what looks like a very smooth jump shot.
Watching that video with footage from when he was 15 years old, you can see the growth and improvement.
If he had played a full season, there would be no question who goes 1st.
If you have a KAT or a Zion or Ja Morant there, its a different story.
The rest of the guys in this draft just dont have that glaring upside.
He is cut a little high for a guy who is 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan, which should help a little with his agility.

Worse yet, if we pass on him, and he ends up on the Warriors, where is is a perfect fit, it is an even bigger disaster.
It's probably why the espn talking heads are trying to push edwards or ball down our throats, they want Wiseman on the Warriors.

You are looking at Wiseman and KAT sharing the floor for 10-20 mins a game, depending on how slowly we bring him along.
That shouldnt be a problem.
I like having 2 beast offensive rebounders out there too with all the 3's we will be chucking.
And when you struggle defensively, it's super important to grab every defensive board.
It was so frustrating at points last year watching all the extra possessions we were giving up while trying to get back into the game.

I see his floor as Clint Capela and his ceiling as Anthony Davis.
He needs to get stronger in the post, but that part of the game is disappearing.
At worst he is an incredibly effective "slash 5" who sets picks and rim runs.


I'd like to see us draft wiseman, re-sign beasley, and trade or sign for another deadeye shooter.

So this is my mock offseason:
Draft Wiseman @ 1
Re-sign beasley 4-56
Target and trade for Buddy Hield
Johsnon + Culver +33
Or Johsnon + Spellman + 17 for Hield + 35
If we keep 17 , draft poniskarevsky if he's there, if not Theo Maledon as developmental PG.
33 or 33+35, look for backup 4/backup PG, this draft is loaded with good 4's and 5's.
Offer Juancho QO and pass if he gets a multyear offer sheet.

With Russell, Beasley, Hield, Kat you have 4 potential 40% 3 pt shooters.
Wiseman setting picks, gobbling boards, and diving to the basket keeping teams honest.

It seemed like Hield was getting pushed out of the rotation last year. He has 3 years of 40%+ 3 point shooting under his belt.
Is making 24 mil next year, but on a declining 4 year contract where the last year is 21.
With a new regime in sacramento he might be a guy we could target, who fits our scheme and is relatively attainable.

It's not my money, and it goes against our history when it comes to adding $,
but I feel we need to use James Johsnon's expiring to add a player,
and keep the ability to add a 20 mil+ player available,
because we will lose it if we just let him expire because we will likely be capped out the next few years.
Like the Warriors did with Wiggins.

Long but great post. Wiseman's potential is vastly superior to Ball and Edwards.

Just like you nothing drove me more crazy than when we gave up an offensive rebound and our opponent made a 3 pointer. That drove me insane. We can't continue giving up offensive rebounds like we do. Those are absolute killers.

[KGdaBom]

This extraordinary length comes at price. Have you ever thought why Giannis tries to start his dribbling right after defensive rebound and attack defense in transition rather than beating them in halfcourt?

So Giannis sucks and should not be in the game because he makes it too easy for opponent to shut them down. Got it.

Wiseman should start dribbling right away to beat opponent in transition and so should Ball and so should Edwards and so should Avdija because all of them are non shooters. Got it.

Seriously there's nothing detrimental about length. No price. If any player can't ball handle, pass, shoot, rebound, defend that's where the price is. It has nothing to do with length. It has to do with skill. Should we just draft Nesmith with #1 overall? He is the best shooter of everybody.

1) Giannis needs a LOT of space to slash to the basket because he is big and long ballhandler, with TWO dribbles he can go the basket from three point line. The problem is that you cant stretch the floor more than actual size of the halfcourt. That is why Giannis prefers to attack team in transition when defense is stretched to court LENGTH, not only WIDTH. Giannis is a specific player who NEEDS specific type of system around him. And yes, teams are able to adjust and shut him down.

2) I did not say that Wiseman is a bad prospect, I said that a) I don't see Giannis comparison at all. b) I doubt that it makes sense to draft him and play next to KAT

3) It might be my bad English, but I have a feeling that when you don't have arguments you start clowning me. Either way I am an expert, so I will not defend my opinion and continue detrimental discussions. Au revoir, Monsieur

Clowning you isn't exactly right. I make fun of your opinions when I think they are extreme and closed minded. By showing extreme examples like Giannis I'm hoping you can see that a player can be a big plus offensively even if he's not a particularly good 3 point shooter.

[Neeva]

I'm all-in on Wiseman, for this reason:
He is the only player I could see myself seriously regretting passing on down the road.
His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.
Edwards could become a 25 ppg scorer and ball a 10 assist guy, and It wouldnt bother me much if we passed on them.
I see too many negatives with both.

Look at the guys we most regret passing on:
Curry - was a phenomenal college shooter. knock was size and competition.
Murray - was a very good college shooter.
Klay - great college shooter
Cousins - physical specimen
Giannis - physical specimen
Gobert - physical specimen

Wiseman falls into the category of incredibly physically gifted.
He has the potential to be even better than KAT, who is what he is defensively at this point.
He has tyson chandler length and agility with what looks like a very smooth jump shot.
Watching that video with footage from when he was 15 years old, you can see the growth and improvement.
If he had played a full season, there would be no question who goes 1st.
If you have a KAT or a Zion or Ja Morant there, its a different story.
The rest of the guys in this draft just dont have that glaring upside.
He is cut a little high for a guy who is 7'1 with a 7'6 wingspan, which should help a little with his agility.

Worse yet, if we pass on him, and he ends up on the Warriors, where is is a perfect fit, it is an even bigger disaster.
It's probably why the espn talking heads are trying to push edwards or ball down our throats, they want Wiseman on the Warriors.

You are looking at Wiseman and KAT sharing the floor for 10-20 mins a game, depending on how slowly we bring him along.
That shouldnt be a problem.
I like having 2 beast offensive rebounders out there too with all the 3's we will be chucking.
And when you struggle defensively, it's super important to grab every defensive board.
It was so frustrating at points last year watching all the extra possessions we were giving up while trying to get back into the game.

I see his floor as Clint Capela and his ceiling as Anthony Davis.
He needs to get stronger in the post, but that part of the game is disappearing.
At worst he is an incredibly effective "slash 5" who sets picks and rim runs.


I'd like to see us draft wiseman, re-sign beasley, and trade or sign for another deadeye shooter.

So this is my mock offseason:
Draft Wiseman @ 1
Re-sign beasley 4-56
Target and trade for Buddy Hield
Johsnon + Culver +33
Or Johsnon + Spellman + 17 for Hield + 35
If we keep 17 , draft poniskarevsky if he's there, if not Theo Maledon as developmental PG.
33 or 33+35, look for backup 4/backup PG, this draft is loaded with good 4's and 5's.
Offer Juancho QO and pass if he gets a multyear offer sheet.

With Russell, Beasley, Hield, Kat you have 4 potential 40% 3 pt shooters.
Wiseman setting picks, gobbling boards, and diving to the basket keeping teams honest.

It seemed like Hield was getting pushed out of the rotation last year. He has 3 years of 40%+ 3 point shooting under his belt.
Is making 24 mil next year, but on a declining 4 year contract where the last year is 21.
With a new regime in sacramento he might be a guy we could target, who fits our scheme and is relatively attainable.

It's not my money, and it goes against our history when it comes to adding $,
but I feel we need to use James Johsnon's expiring to add a player,
and keep the ability to add a 20 mil+ player available,
because we will lose it if we just let him expire because we will likely be capped out the next few years.
Like the Warriors did with Wiggins.

What does wiseman do that will seperate him from other big men? Right now the only valuable big men are the ones that do something unique like Kat and his elite long range shooting and Jokic with his passing.
Wiseman will lose value in this current state the league is in without something unique and Rosas is pretty much just collecting trading chips for his next star player(Booker)

[Midw35t]

While the board doesn't set up for Minnesota to draft Toppin, he's still has a great chance of being a great player. He excels at every shooting metric (at the rim, paint, mid-range, three-point shooting). He shot 43-103 on three-pointers in college. I don't think 103 is a low number.

103 is a low number when you realise it came in 64 career games. That averages out to 1.6 attempts per game which is miniscule, especially for a supposedly great shooter.

But that isn't even the real issue. It's his relatively low FT% that caps his short term shooting potential. You're not an elite shooter if you can only make 70% of your FTs.

He struggles defensively but it's important to remember he had a late growth spurt. He was a wing throughout high school. He has only played in the paint for a couple of years. Sure, he could be awful guarding the pick and roll or he could get better as he plays closer to the basket more. Guys like Okongwu have played in the post throughout high school and college. It's second nature to them. Toppin is still learning. Just look at how much his rebounding approved from his freshman to sophomore year.

This is a giant reach and addresses none of the criticisms I've levelled against him.

Even if I buy this, it doesn't explain why he sucks so bad guarding the perimeter. Hell, he should be a natural at it by your logic. Nor does it address his poor lower body strength and his high/tight hips that impact his ability to get leverage and move laterally. These are fundamental issues that, for the overwhelming majority of prospects, are impossible to fix. Are you willing to bet Toppin is that 1 in 1000 that can? I'm not. Especially when those issues might affect him offensively, such as in post ups.

Nor, again, does it address the lack of effort or technique he showed when rebounding. Even his "improvement" (a whole 1 extra board per40...yay) isn't enough to make me confident he'll be a factor on that end when he loses the overwhelming physical advantage he enjoyed in college.

Sam Venicie said he talked to a scout who told him

"For the past three years, Toppin has been the most improved played in prep and high school basketball - going from zero star recruit to getting a offer from Dayton to being a fringe draft prospect to a lottery pick. The reality is that we have no idea what Toppin's ceiling is and we should stop guessing wrong."

Everyone says he's the one most likely to be a bust. I disagree, I see him as the player most likely to overplay his draft slot as he drops to a team like Sacramento or Portland and puts up 20 points a game.

Honestly, I can see that too. He could easily put up 20ppg on the right team (many can under those circumstances, but I digress). The issue is that he gives all of that back if not more on the defensive end. So you have to ask yourself whether that offence is worth that defence?

I say no. You have to be special to justify that and he isn't. So what's the point? If you want empty numbers you don't have to waste a lottery pick on that.

Topping might put up great numbers, but he is so stiff and unaware on defense.

[shangrila]

Here's a YouTube comparing Wiseman very favorably to Antetokounmpo when he entered the league. He could develop into a taller version of the man.

Watch on YouTube

;t=213s

They end of that video is the issue I have with all this Wiseman talk.

Literally any 7 footer can look amazing in a gym. They play clips of Mitchell Robinson doing the same stuff everyone's drooling over Wiseman doing (OMFG was that a CROSSOVER?!). He displayed none of this stuff in game, on top of showing below average at best lateral quickness so...how does anyone expect him to play the 4 full time? I just don't buy it.

He's interesting as a C prospect, I'll give him that. But we have Towns there so it's a moot point.

Wiseman is not a finished product. What you see now is not what you're going to get in the end. Picture what he can be with reasonable expectations of improvement over the course of his rookie contract. I can see a guy who could be worth a max contract at the end of his rookie contract. If KAT and Wiseman are both talented they can play together. I believe they're both talented. Call KAT the PF if you prefer.

A reasonable expectation of improvement would be him becoming an average 3pt shooter, improving his feel in the post (maybe adding the ability to make some kind of pass) and working on his lateral quickness to help him guarding in space/on switches, though if he even can it wouldn't be much. That's reasonable.

The fit with KAT just isn't there. Neither can defend the perimeter, so even if it works out offensively it'll be a moot point. Remember the Dieng-KAT pairing? I do. That was pretty awesome, in fact there was a stretch the both of them were averaging 20-10. But after we continued to lose and the corpse of Eduardo Najera dropped 20 on us I knew it was a failed experiment.

If Wiseman could guard the perimeter full time, maybe I could see it. But since he can't, I can't.

[KGdaBom]

They end of that video is the issue I have with all this Wiseman talk.

Literally any 7 footer can look amazing in a gym. They play clips of Mitchell Robinson doing the same stuff everyone's drooling over Wiseman doing (OMFG was that a CROSSOVER?!). He displayed none of this stuff in game, on top of showing below average at best lateral quickness so...how does anyone expect him to play the 4 full time? I just don't buy it.

He's interesting as a C prospect, I'll give him that. But we have Towns there so it's a moot point.

Wiseman is not a finished product. What you see now is not what you're going to get in the end. Picture what he can be with reasonable expectations of improvement over the course of his rookie contract. I can see a guy who could be worth a max contract at the end of his rookie contract. If KAT and Wiseman are both talented they can play together. I believe they're both talented. Call KAT the PF if you prefer.

A reasonable expectation of improvement would be him becoming an average 3pt shooter, improving his feel in the post (maybe adding the ability to make some kind of pass) and working on his lateral quickness to help him guarding in space/on switches, though if he even can it wouldn't be much. That's reasonable.

The fit with KAT just isn't there. Neither can defend the perimeter, so even if it works out offensively it'll be a moot point. Remember the Dieng-KAT pairing? I do. That was pretty awesome, in fact there was a stretch the both of them were averaging 20-10. But after we continued to lose and the corpse of Eduardo Najera dropped 20 on us I knew it was a failed experiment.

If Wiseman could guard the perimeter full time, maybe I could see it. But since he can't, I can't.

I see all of those improvements as reasonable and think he could guard the perimeter at least somewhat respectably. The guy is quite athletic and just needs the practice, coaching and experience. IMO if we pass on him we will regret it a LOT. He is so much more talented than any other prospect in the draft.