2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

[Baseline81]

It's important for both, as I believe they'll share duties and each spend time both on and off the ball.

I don't mean to discredit Ball. Just trying to understand the importance of the stat for a lead guard.

If the reports are true, Rosas is doing his most homework on Ball and Edwards. Either selection is understandable. I tend to see it as Doogie does -- more of an asset for a future trade.

[shangrila]

I don't know that we'll ultimately take him with having a similar player in McLaughlin, but I love this kid's potential. A lot of people turn away from 4-year guys, but keep in mind he reclassified. He didn't turn 18 until the day before the last regular season game of his freshman year at Marquette (he's just 6 months older than Precious Achiuwa, a true freshman this season). Was an immediate contributor as a freshman and just kept growing.

Read on Twitter

His finishing is really bad. Something like 45% around the rim IIRC.

I get the positives but all he realistically brings is the ability to make tough shots. He's not a PG, he's not a defensive presence at all, he's a volume scorer so there's no guarantee his shot making translates in a lesser role.

He was fun to watch but I don't think he's an NBA player.

When he penetrates into the paint, he prefers to pass out rather than shoot because he isn't a great finisher inside the arc with a paltry 39.6% two point field goal percentage. third lowest among prospects in our top 100. While this poor mark does not fully remove him from draft consideration, since 2000 only Josh Selby and Andrew Harrison have been drafted while converting less than 40% of their two point attempts in the same season.

That was the DX report on Fred VanVleet. Just saying.....

I'm not saying to draft him at No. 1 or even at No. 17, but I just think teams will regret passing on him and he needs to be under consideration if there at No. 33. Those kinds of shooting chops aren't easily replicable.

Even if we assume his finishing improves like FVV, that still leaves him as a poor playmaker and defender (FVV was excellent in both aspects coming out). So what does he provide outside of his shooting? And then how much does he need to shoot to make up for his deficiencies elsewhere? And THEN is it worth him shoot that much with Towns, Russell and Beasley on the roster?

I don't hate him, I'm just not sure if he's worth it. I could see him being a steal on a team with a bigger playmaker that can hide him defensively (Milwaukee or Philly comes to mind). Not so much for us.

[Klomp]

I tend to see it as Doogie does -- more of an asset for a future trade.

I don't disagree there

[Rookie-Mistake]

I've been following Edwards, Ball & Wiseman on Instagram. From this perspective, Edwards worries me..

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[Baseline81]

I've been following Edwards, Ball & Wiseman on Instagram. From this perspective, Edwards worries me..

I have not followed any prospects' social media accounts. Care to explain?

[shangrila]

LaMelo shot 11-of-29 (37.9 percent) on catch-and-shoots through 12 games. He wasn't as accurate as his brother, but when he was able to set his feet and generate rhythm, the results were promising.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889220-is-lamelo-ball-a-better-nba-draft-prospect-than-lonzo-at-19

That's such a small sample size though that I'm struggling to get excited by it. For example, if he'd made just one more 3 in that sample it would have been 41.4%. One less and he'd be at 34%.

[shangrila]

If the Wolves take Ball at #1 overall I will wait before jumping off a bridge and might even hold off on throwing a brick through my TV screen. The reason for this delay is back in the year we drafted OJ Mayo instead of Kevin Love I almost did the same only to find out that the Wolves management was actually smarter than me when they traded Mayo and pure crap for Love and Mike Miller.

I remember doing the exact same thing.

I actually used to edit the 2k rosters too so we still had Mayo and DeAndre Jordan (instead of Pek).

[shangrila]

Big reason why I think I prefer Ball. He seems like he understands playing off the ball, at least to a higher level than Edwards. With Towns and Russell already here, that's important.

I am all in on Ball if wolves keep the pick. Ball just seems like the smarter player on and off the court.

Smarter? maybe you can explain the decisions and sloppy play in what I see in this clip?

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I think Ball is "smart" when he's got the ball in his hands. I put quotations since it seems more instinctual than cerebral but, you know, results.

I agree that I don't see the off ball smarts people are talking about. I've seen him make good cuts, sure, but I've also seen him stand around on the weakside without moving or failing to flatten when a teammate drives.

I think everyone, whether you love him or hate him, should realise that Ball is a massive project that will take a few years to start hitting his potential.

[Klomp]

I think everyone, whether you love him or hate him, should realise that Ball is a massive project that will take a few years to start hitting his potential.

That's the case for pretty much everyone in this class

[KGdaBom]

LaMelo shot 11-of-29 (37.9 percent) on catch-and-shoots through 12 games. He wasn't as accurate as his brother, but when he was able to set his feet and generate rhythm, the results were promising.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889220-is-lamelo-ball-a-better-nba-draft-prospect-than-lonzo-at-19

That's such a small sample size though that I'm struggling to get excited by it. For example, if he'd made just one more 3 in that sample it would have been 41.4%. One less and he'd be at 34%.

I see this kind of stuff all the time excusing crappy shooters. Well he only makes 25% of his threes, but he makes 35% of his corner threes. That means he makes 20% of the rest. Ball is a HORRIBLE SHOOTER. Not only that, but his form is horrible too. Can his other skills overcome that and make him a worthy selection at #1 overall??
I think NOT!

3 Posts to go.

[shangrila]

I think everyone, whether you love him or hate him, should realise that Ball is a massive project that will take a few years to start hitting his potential.

That's the case for pretty much everyone in this class

Maybe I should rephrase; he's a massive project that will take several years before his positives are outweighing his negatives.

[shangrila]

LaMelo shot 11-of-29 (37.9 percent) on catch-and-shoots through 12 games. He wasn't as accurate as his brother, but when he was able to set his feet and generate rhythm, the results were promising.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889220-is-lamelo-ball-a-better-nba-draft-prospect-than-lonzo-at-19

That's such a small sample size though that I'm struggling to get excited by it. For example, if he'd made just one more 3 in that sample it would have been 41.4%. One less and he'd be at 34%.

I see this kind of stuff all the time excusing crappy shooters. Well he only makes 25% of his threes, but he makes 35% of his corner threes. That means he makes 20% of the rest. Ball is a HORRIBLE SHOOTER. Not only that, but his form is horrible too. Can his other skills overcome that and make him a worthy selection at #1 overall??
I think NOT!

3 Posts to go.

Yeah, I've found it bizarre for a while now. In this one niche area in a ridiculously small sample size he was less terrible than usual means...what?

[Rookie-Mistake]

I might be getting old, but this guy is a kid. Texting/making phone calls while driving (not sure if it's legal in the states, certainly not legal in Aus).
D****ng around with friends etc.. in contrast Wiseman is all business and Ball is all BBB but I get that feeling he can hold the weight of being #1.. if I were to pay to watch either three of them I'm going Ball. Wiseman's my pick if we keep#1, but Ball has game.
Skill wise, he is more advanced than any other prospect.

I've been following Edwards, Ball & Wiseman on Instagram. From this perspective, Edwards worries me..

I have not followed any prospects' social media accounts. Care to explain?

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[personanongrata]

I might be getting old, but this guy is a kid. Texting/making phone calls while driving (not sure if it's legal in the states, certainly not legal in Aus).
D****ng around with friends etc.. in contrast Wiseman is all business and Ball is all BBB but I get that feeling he can hold the weight of being #1.. if I were to pay to watch either three of them I'm going Ball. Wiseman's my pick if we keep#1, but Ball has game.
Skill wise, he is more advanced than any other prospect.

I've been following Edwards, Ball & Wiseman on Instagram. From this perspective, Edwards worries me..

I have not followed any prospects' social media accounts. Care to explain?

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Edwards is kind of silly and immature. Not a bad guy or anything, but I could see Edwards taking the gas off the pedal once he has millions in the bank. NBA season is a grind, not everyone is wired that way.

[Jedzz]

I think everyone, whether you love him or hate him, should realise that Ball is a massive project that will take a few years to start hitting his potential.

That's the case for pretty much everyone in this class

No, I don't think that's the case for everyone in this draft at all. Only for the ones some of you have allowed yourselves to be hoodwinked into believing should be at the top.

There are both 1nDone and players with years of college experience both that have already shown refined shooting skills, signs of elite court awareness, passing skills, defensive attributes. Yet the majority of people seem snookered as usual by idiotic underlying thoughts that if a player has shown too much already they must somehow not have the potential to get any better. First of all what some of them are already capable of is plenty enough for this team, and they still have the same ability to get better as anyone. Meanwhile, almost any player that hasn't yet mastered anything is swept to the top range of the draft because of...left open potential?

Someone please tell me why you can't look at a 38% or 40+% shooter, some already showing great defensive effort and plays with their team, and believe that he can't get any better yet at both shooting and other skills. But you can see yourself drafting a .250 shooter who shot himself silly in college displaying every ugly bad habit they could, lack of team skills, lack of defensive end efforts, and somehow sit here telling us they can improve that shooting, can improve their desire and skill to defend, and everything else. It's really quite amazing to see such blinders being employed. But I'm here to report it is nothing new. It's every bit what has created the horrible draft choices of most years for this team. Projects, potential, empty minutes and nothing that follows. Enjoy your results but realize it wasn't just the GM to blame when you look back, you are very much a part of this hype train. You were very much a part of all the ones before it.

[Jedzz]

I think Ball is "smart" when he's got the ball in his hands. I put quotations since it seems more instinctual than cerebral but, you know, results.

I agree that I don't see the off ball smarts people are talking about. I've seen him make good cuts, sure, but I've also seen him stand around on the weakside without moving or failing to flatten when a teammate drives.

I think everyone, whether you love him or hate him, should realise that Ball is a massive project that will take a few years to start hitting his potential.

I appreciate the open mindedness and unbiased way you see this. I know I sometimes can go over the top on deriding some of these players, but usually it's a reaction to over the top belief in them. The way some will overlook everything else negative just to celebrate their one positive. While at the same time be so overly critical about a well rounded player that has one displayed weakness left to work on. This contrast just burns me up.

I think most have noticed Ball's nifty knack for ball and passing skills for lack of a better term. Sure it's the Rubio thing that was so alluring with him. But he's not even at Rubio's level in that one thing. Not at all. What he does have is better height, and maybe more desire to shoot. Two things that might entice a little. I get it. But here we have what has shown to be an even worse shooting problem. Possibly just as bad finishing skills around the net. Possibly worse off ball skills. And like you admitted this all ends up to be one giant project. I believe people really have to stop putting these very types of players at the top of drafts.

These players need a projects time, bench minutes, and less attention to work on these skills left undone. Then let them rise through the ranks with their gifts when it's time and deserved if they can. Stop destroying teams by overdrafting projects, overtaxing them with minutes where all they end up doing is whatever they already know just to get by. When is it enough? How many years of screwing up drafts must we go through?

[Slim Tubby]

It’s been said before but Edwards is a less mature, less proven prospect than Wiggins at the same age. Does anyone really believe that Daddy won’t push Lamelo out to a larger market before his Rookie contract expires? I feel like some are overthinking this...Wiseman is the pick without question.

If somehow Okungwu dropped to #6 and the Hawks offered it and Hunter/Huerter for #1, I could accept that but I still believe Wiseman is the right choice.


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[Jedzz]

Do you guys want to know who to draft at #1 if no one will initially trade for the pick and return the value you need? I mean for those of you who think in terms of that pick maintaining a high value for future trade options even if you don't see them here long term. I know many of you exist, so this answer is for you. There is a #1 overall choice for that solution.

Let's dip our toe into the unthinkable and win this draft by seeing through it all. Why were the Warriors so willing to toss a season completely? You don't think a team worth billions and putting more billions into facilities would have rather chose to keep winning as much as they could and kept their fanbase spending? They took one injury to one player and spun it into a reason for all their best players to sit out and tank. But why? Because there is one player that nobody can really hide in college. It just happens to be a need of the Warrirors. They also just happened to lose a 6'10 3/4" in bare feet Durant. So in other words they had just lost a 7ft player that is athleticly and ball skills gifted for a player of that size.

This college player also just happens to have a few of the qualities of one of the most recent league crushing talents, and that player is a media darling they love to exalt. Ask yourself why a college player hit with a suspension serves half of the suspension and then decides to say screw it and walk. When if he waited it out and continued to play into the season he could have cemented himself as the #1 overall pick without question and set himself up for 100 to 200 million potentially down the road. While not finishing the season at all opens up risk of him dropping. Why would a person choose this, or why would someone advise him to. What if someone was to assure him a top selection in the draft? What if it was a great winning team currently on a super tank trip to the bottom to secure such a position? You know which player I'm speaking of. All the Warriors need now is for Minnesota or anyone they trade the pick away to, to select one of the hapless projects that have been hyped to steal this drafts' #1 overall selection and then the real exciting player of this draft is all theirs. Or, all theirs to trade away. As the Warriors aren't above waiting a year if they need to in order to get value back. If the Wolves can't trade the pick for value they hoped, then select the one player that will hold his value long term as he develops. The one player that will from the start run by everyone, tower over everyone, and constantly be making plays around the net that get him noticed in the media. If winning the draft value game is your desire, then Wiseman is your pick. The rest of these projects belong in the late twenties based on what they've shown. Don't be snookered. Better yet, you could decide building a team is more important than winning the draft value longterm and select a player that will be a perfect piece for your team. But that's a different choice and topic entirely.

[Klomp]

I might be getting old, but this guy is a kid. Texting/making phone calls while driving (not sure if it's legal in the states, certainly not legal in Aus).
D****ng around with friends etc.. in contrast Wiseman is all business and Ball is all BBB but I get that feeling he can hold the weight of being #1.. if I were to pay to watch either three of them I'm going Ball. Wiseman's my pick if we keep#1, but Ball has game.
Skill wise, he is more advanced than any other prospect.

I've been following Edwards, Ball & Wiseman on Instagram. From this perspective, Edwards worries me..

I have not followed any prospects' social media accounts. Care to explain?

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I think that's an important consideration to make. Part of the worry with many college kids is what they'll do once they get that first paycheck. I'm not even talking about buying things or getting into trouble, but what about the willingness to keep working when you already have the fame and fortune? I think that's where Wiggins got in trouble most. Ball is already a professional and has been for years. Yet you've seen him continue to get better. Is he a perfect prospect? No. But we've seen him get better as a pro. He's very different from the 16-year old kid in Lithuania.

[Klomp]

It’s been said before but Edwards is a less mature, less proven prospect than Wiggins at the same age. Does anyone really believe that Daddy won’t push Lamelo out to a larger market before his Rookie contract expires? I feel like some are overthinking this...Wiseman is the pick without question.

If somehow Okungwu dropped to #6 and the Hawks offered it and Hunter/Huerter for #1, I could accept that but I still believe Wiseman is the right choice.


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Remember, "daddy" has seen a major market eat up and spit out his oldest son already. Why would he want a major market for LaMelo?