Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[TheNetsFan]

That top 10 defense is a fallacy (Defensive rating is not a great stat). We had a gimmicky defense (heavily based on analytics) which can produce results in reg season, but in the playoffs, it would get exposed. Also Toronto absolutely destroyed our defense in the playoffs, and you can point out to the team missing key players, but those players were missed on the offensive end, not necessarily defensive end. Martin and Chiozza weren't even taking roster spaces, they were on two way contracts. Rodi is actually statistically one of our few plus defenders.

MKG is no longer rotation material, just look up his numbers this year. You can sign him as third string, but don't expect him to be a rotation piece. Harkless can work, but you still need more. Also if you're going for cheap options, you're compromising your offense a bit, as those guys won't be good offensively.

How is defensive rating not a great stat?

Bringing up Toronto is just ridiculous. I'd expect some BS like that from a Raptor fan. Your point makes no sense. We were playing G Leaguers and 4 guards at a time.

Defensive rating is a crap, out of context stat in most cases. Just take a look at which teams we had a higher defensive rating than. Miami Heat were ranked 12th in defensive rating, the Jazz, Rockets, Nuggets, Mavs were all ranked well below us. A team like Chicago Bulls was ranked above us in defensive rating. Do you honestly see that being an accurate assessment of NBA team defenses?

How is bringing up Toronto ridiculous? Which players were we missing in the bubble again? Kyrie, KD, Dinwiddie, DJ, Taurean Prince, and Wilson Chandler. Out of those guys, who is helping out your defense improve from trash to okay? KD is probably the best pick in there, while Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Prince are below average to average at best. DJ wouldn't be good against Toronto defensively as Toronto utilized stretch bigs and use two active guards. Wilson Chandler was a decent defender, but if he is a heavy minutes player for you in the playoffs, you're screwed anyway. The point is that the roster simply lacks enough good defenders. Bringing up the 10th best defensive rating means very little in terms of actual defensive prowess. Playing G-leaguers hurt us more on the offensive end than it did on defense. We couldn't make open shots. If we had our full roster in the bubble, we would still struggle defensively against Toronto, because we simply lack good perimeter defenders. And since you're placing so much faith in defensive rating, maybe look into more useful, relevant advanced stats on our players' defense.

I agree. The true measure of a defense is how it performs against playoff teams. Despite what analytics say, the top teams with elite stars will attack the mid-range. If you can't defend there, you can't win in the playoffs.

[vincecarter4pres]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

[MGrand15]

That top 10 defense is a fallacy (Defensive rating is not a great stat). We had a gimmicky defense (heavily based on analytics) which can produce results in reg season, but in the playoffs, it would get exposed. Also Toronto absolutely destroyed our defense in the playoffs, and you can point out to the team missing key players, but those players were missed on the offensive end, not necessarily defensive end. Martin and Chiozza weren't even taking roster spaces, they were on two way contracts. Rodi is actually statistically one of our few plus defenders.

MKG is no longer rotation material, just look up his numbers this year. You can sign him as third string, but don't expect him to be a rotation piece. Harkless can work, but you still need more. Also if you're going for cheap options, you're compromising your offense a bit, as those guys won't be good offensively.

How is defensive rating not a great stat?

Bringing up Toronto is just ridiculous. I'd expect some BS like that from a Raptor fan. Your point makes no sense. We were playing G Leaguers and 4 guards at a time.

Defensive rating is a crap, out of context stat in most cases. Just take a look at which teams we had a higher defensive rating than. Miami Heat were ranked 12th in defensive rating, the Jazz, Rockets, Nuggets, Mavs were all ranked well below us. A team like Chicago Bulls was ranked above us in defensive rating. Do you honestly see that being an accurate assessment of NBA team defenses?

How is bringing up Toronto ridiculous? Which players were we missing in the bubble again? Kyrie, KD, Dinwiddie, DJ, Taurean Prince, and Wilson Chandler. Out of those guys, who is helping out your defense improve from trash to okay? KD is probably the best pick in there, while Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Prince are below average to average at best. DJ wouldn't be good against Toronto defensively as Toronto utilized stretch bigs and use two active guards. Wilson Chandler was a decent defender, but if he is a heavy minutes player for you in the playoffs, you're screwed anyway. The point is that the roster simply lacks enough good defenders. Bringing up the 10th best defensive rating means very little in terms of actual defensive prowess. Playing G-leaguers hurt us more on the offensive end than it did on defense. We couldn't make open shots. If we had our full roster in the bubble, we would still struggle defensively against Toronto, because we simply lack good perimeter defenders. And since you're placing so much faith in defensive rating, maybe look into more useful, relevant advanced stats on our players' defense.

It sounds like you're just picking and choosing what stats to care about. Yes - defensive rating isn't perfect. The season is long and teams aren't always locked in. Players get traded mid-season. It includes longer rotations that aren't used in the playoffs. That applies to every stat. Even still, Miami is the only team that stands out as a really good defense that isn't in the top 10. Houston, Denver, and Dallas? Those are average defensive teams at best. All the elite teams are perfectly reflected in the top 5.

I'm not saying we were top 10 defense so we're fine, we have great defenders. I'm just saying that shows that our personnel isn't THAT bad. We may opt to just go for small tweaks vs. overhauling the team. You're here saying that G-Leaguers are a slight downgrade defensively from proven NBA vets. Guys that were just part of a solid NBA defense for a full season. That's just absurd. I don't know what useful stats made you come to that conclusion.

[DarkXaero]

How is defensive rating not a great stat?

Bringing up Toronto is just ridiculous. I'd expect some BS like that from a Raptor fan. Your point makes no sense. We were playing G Leaguers and 4 guards at a time.

Defensive rating is a crap, out of context stat in most cases. Just take a look at which teams we had a higher defensive rating than. Miami Heat were ranked 12th in defensive rating, the Jazz, Rockets, Nuggets, Mavs were all ranked well below us. A team like Chicago Bulls was ranked above us in defensive rating. Do you honestly see that being an accurate assessment of NBA team defenses?

How is bringing up Toronto ridiculous? Which players were we missing in the bubble again? Kyrie, KD, Dinwiddie, DJ, Taurean Prince, and Wilson Chandler. Out of those guys, who is helping out your defense improve from trash to okay? KD is probably the best pick in there, while Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Prince are below average to average at best. DJ wouldn't be good against Toronto defensively as Toronto utilized stretch bigs and use two active guards. Wilson Chandler was a decent defender, but if he is a heavy minutes player for you in the playoffs, you're screwed anyway. The point is that the roster simply lacks enough good defenders. Bringing up the 10th best defensive rating means very little in terms of actual defensive prowess. Playing G-leaguers hurt us more on the offensive end than it did on defense. We couldn't make open shots. If we had our full roster in the bubble, we would still struggle defensively against Toronto, because we simply lack good perimeter defenders. And since you're placing so much faith in defensive rating, maybe look into more useful, relevant advanced stats on our players' defense.

It sounds like you're just picking and choosing what stats to care about. Yes - defensive rating isn't perfect. The season is long and teams aren't always locked in. Players get traded mid-season. It includes longer rotations that aren't used in the playoffs. That applies to every stat. Even still, Miami is the only team that stands out as a really good defense that isn't in the top 10. Houston, Denver, and Dallas? Those are average defensive teams at best. All the elite teams are perfectly reflected in the top 5.

I'm not saying we were top 10 defense so we're fine, we have great defenders. I'm just saying that shows that our personnel isn't THAT bad. We may opt to just go for small tweaks vs. overhauling the team. You're here saying that G-Leaguers are a slight downgrade defensively from proven NBA vets. Guys that were just part of a solid NBA defense for a full season. That's just absurd. I don't know what useful stats made you come to that conclusion.

Miami Heat have the 4th best defensive rating in the playoffs, and Houston had the 5th best defensive rating (they were #1 until they got annihilated by Lakers in games 4 & 5). Denver play guys like Torrey Craig, Gary Harris, Paul Millsap, and Jerami Grant to give them good defense and defensive versatility. We don't have a set of defenders like that on roster.

G-league players or no names can still play defense, their "G-league" value comes from lack of offensive skills. For example, Jeremiah Martin may be the best guard defender that we have (this is backed up by metrics) but he's trash offensively. Similarly, OKC took an undrafted Lugentz Dort on a two way contract this year, and he was locking up a superstar in James Harden out there. His offensive contributions outside of game 7 were negative, but his value on defense was so high that he became an important part of their rotation. There's nothing ridiculous about it, G-league talent can still play defense. Another example; despite how trash he was, Theo Pinson still played solid defense but was a complete negative offensively.

Of course it's possible to improve your defense simply by implementing better defensive schemes without making any significant roster changes. But I'm not trusting a rookie head coach to be able to significantly improve this team defensively, without major roster changes, and it would be a difficult ask for any head coach anyway. When the roster has an obvious redundancy of too much scoring and playmaking talent, maybe the wise move is to diversify the roster by addressing more important needs such as perimeter defense.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

[vincecarter4pres]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

Although I agree with your sentiment to an extent, you're asking a lot on the fly, for a first time head coach, and a group of players who have very limited experience playing with each other, to suddenly transform themselves into great team defenders. This is a team with a 2 year window, changes pretty much must be made, and almost certainly will be.

I think the writing is on the wall for LeVert. Unless he's dealt in an actual blockbuster, we'll probably roll with him, Imho, as our Ginobili, which is what I've been saying for years, especially the last season, and Steve Nash tends to feel the same.

But I definitely see something happening with picks, prospects and possibly one or both of Dinwiddie and Allen. It's not necessarily even something I personally want, it's just something I personally see happening, unless there's nothing that makes sense out there and they stay here by default.

I do want something where we see salary filler like Prince, Musa and Temple attached to picks and prospects like Claxton and Rodi to get one or 2, 2 way player(s) here. The often talked about guys, like Jrue, Barnes, Gordon, Harris, Richardson, etc. But I tend to think it will also require one or both of Allen and Dinwiddie, or those latter 2 are dealt in another deal.

Like Dinwidde/Temple/Allen/2nd's for Jrue. Allen and even Dinwiddie would probably go to other teams, with picks going back to New Orleans. Maybe Dinwiddie to Dallas for Delon Wright and the 18th for example, Allen to Boston for the 14.

Then we see Prince/Claxton/19th/Musa/maybe '21 1st for Gordon.

Or Prince/Claxton for Barnes or Terrence Ross or Gary Harris, something like that.

Or they trade up into the top 10 while getting back a legitimate positive impact NBA player who is an above average defender and shooter. The Dinwiddie/19/Claxton for Oubre/10 type of deal we keep discussing, forget the Jrue one. And then maybe still deal for a guard like Ross on the cheap if possible.

That way, you're keeping LeVert, the guy locked up on a reasonable contract for 3 years, the guy KD praises, who has ceiling, but you bring in an elite defender at the 2, and another good defender and legitimate 3&D wing who can play the 4 as well. Then it's not as many bad to average defenders you're trying to recreate. Then the guy you add on MLE, BAE, Vet Min, etc., actually has a steady role and minutes.

The bottom line is, though we might not see an out and out blockbuster, but I'd be surprised, borderline shocked, if 1 or 2 significant moves aren't made.

[ProspectPark]

Next year the league will be wide open. No super teams. None of the East teams are as deep as us.

In my opinion keeping Dinwiddie and Allen are our “Win Now” moves. I hope we flip Temple, Rodi, and Musa into a rotation player and sign another high IQ vet with the MLE.

If we win the chip, then Tsai will have no choice but to bring at least one of Dinwiddie or Allen back.

The only move I would make is try to find one of these teams with the 9-12th pick in the draft who wants to trade down. Draft Vassell, Williams, or Bey. We don’t need this guy to develop into a superstar, just a reliable 3&D. Vassell is probably the most NBA ready of the 3.

[vincecarter4pres]

Next year the league will be wide open. No super teams.

I don't know how you can say that?

We already are without any moves.

So are both LA teams.

Denver is on the verge of being one internally with Murray and Jokic. So are the Celtics, to a lesser extent.

GSW is pretty much already there and has the chip to make a huge move.

Giannis and Harden might very well be dealt this off-season and it will likely be to a team like GSW, Atlanta, Boston, Philly, Miami or Dallas, immediately created yet another super team(s), or strengthening an already contender into one.

None of the East teams are as deep as us.

Eh, Boston and Miami sort of are, but yeah, if we're healthy none of the East worries me in current form.

In my opinion keeping Dinwiddie and Allen are our “Win Now” moves. I hope we flip Temple, Rodi, and Musa into a rotation player and sign another high IQ vet with the MLE.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. But that trade of salary filler needs to include some sort of asset and needs to bring back a legitimate NBA starter who can 3&D for 30+ minutes a game, for a majority of next seasons games without tripping over their own foot after 1 dribble. Needs to be a Covington, an Aaron Gordon, Harrison Barnes, Gary Harris, Josh Richardson, etc. Can't just be an MKG, RHJ, Andre Robertson, who are extremely good defenders, but might as well be a sack of potatoes on a pair of roller skates on offense if they're more then a 10 minute per game, minute eater for 60% of next season's games. And that latter player, that ain't going to cut it.

We at bare minimum need to land a Norman Powell and a Maurice Harkless combo.

If we win the chip, then Tsai will have no choice but to bring at least one of Dinwiddie or Allen back.

I would hope so. This also is now starting to feel more like a sentimental, proved you wrong kind of opinion instead of what's best for the team though.

The only move I would make is try to find one of these teams with the 9-12th pick in the draft who wants to trade down. Draft Vassell, Williams, or Bey. We don’t need this guy to develop into a superstar, just a reliable 3&D. Vassell is probably the most NBA ready of the 3.

Idk about Vassell, his first step is mediocre at the college level and his lateral quicks and recovery speed aren't anything to write home about.

Again, I'm no expert on this draft, but any of Williams, Okoro, or Bey seem like the better prospects for us. Maybe not, I'll leave that in Marks and yours' hands lol.

But although I like that idea, it still has to be something that brings back a legit NBA 3&D player in the same deal.

Or we might be better off drafting a high upside guard and filling the 3&D wing role through a separate trade.

[DarkXaero]

Defense is about all: effort, system, and talent. The Brook Lopez example doesn't work because there were always areas of defense that he was really good at, and he just needed a system/lineup to cover up his deficiencies. I remember saying on this very forum multiple times that Brook can be a really good defender in the right system, back when Brook was a Net.

A good defensive system, and high effort can definitely make a team defense overachieve, but you still ultimately need good defensive personnel.

[DeRoma]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

I don't remember anyone here saying Lopez was a good post defender when he was here. Sounds completely revisionist to me. I do remember Prokhorov going on rants about how he was one of the worst defensive players in the league.

I didn't say talent "doesn't affect" defense. I said it wasn't the most important factor in a good defense, which is the system and coaching.

One defensive player will certainly help, but it is far more important to have the right system in place with the right coach. If you need evidence just look at the Pelicans which are one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. If Jrue alone was so determinative they would have been better.

I also think the priority should be in getting a wing defender in the East. Someone who can guard Tatum, Giannis, LeBron for a series. Jrue is not gonna be able to do that.

I want to see Prince in a good system before I decided that he just can't be good defensively. He has never played on a good team in his career.

I don't know why you really want to keep Allen when we already have Jordan. They will both be played out of a playoff series vs Toronto/Boston/LAC.

He does have talent, thats why he can get us something useful back. Paying him next off season and investing 20 mill+ in Centers would be a horrible strategy. Trading him would make far more sense that Levert.

And Jordan is not getting traded when he came here at the request of KD/Kyrie. Just accept it.

[MGrand15]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

Although I agree with your sentiment to an extent, you're asking a lot on the fly, for a first time head coach, and a group of players who have very limited experience playing with each other, to suddenly transform themselves into great team defenders. This is a team with a 2 year window, changes pretty much must be made, and almost certainly will be.

I think the writing is on the wall for LeVert. Unless he's dealt in an actual blockbuster, we'll probably roll with him, Imho, as our Ginobili, which is what I've been saying for years, especially the last season, and Steve Nash tends to feel the same.

But I definitely see something happening with picks, prospects and possibly one or both of Dinwiddie and Allen. It's not necessarily even something I personally want, it's just something I personally see happening, unless there's nothing that makes sense out there and they stay here by default.

I do want something where we see salary filler like Prince, Musa and Temple attached to picks and prospects like Claxton and Rodi to get one or 2, 2 way player(s) here. The often talked about guys, like Jrue, Barnes, Gordon, Harris, Richardson, etc. But I tend to think it will also require one or both of Allen and Dinwiddie, or those latter 2 are dealt in another deal.

Like Dinwidde/Temple/Allen/2nd's for Jrue. Allen and even Dinwiddie would probably go to other teams, with picks going back to New Orleans. Maybe Dinwiddie to Dallas for Delon Wright and the 18th for example, Allen to Boston for the 14.

Then we see Prince/Claxton/19th/Musa/maybe '21 1st for Gordon.

Or Prince/Claxton for Barnes or Terrence Ross or Gary Harris, something like that.

Or they trade up into the top 10 while getting back a legitimate positive impact NBA player who is an above average defender and shooter. The Dinwiddie/19/Claxton for Oubre/10 type of deal we keep discussing, forget the Jrue one. And then maybe still deal for a guard like Ross on the cheap if possible.

That way, you're keeping LeVert, the guy locked up on a reasonable contract for 3 years, the guy KD praises, who has ceiling, but you bring in an elite defender at the 2, and another good defender and legitimate 3&D wing who can play the 4 as well. Then it's not as many bad to average defenders you're trying to recreate. Then the guy you add on MLE, BAE, Vet Min, etc., actually has a steady role and minutes.

The bottom line is, though we might not see an out and out blockbuster, but I'd be surprised, borderline shocked, if 1 or 2 significant moves aren't made.

I understand this thought process but Marks has some tough moves to make to pull it off. A lot of dominos need to fall in order to overhaul the team. Its hard to pull off one major trade. Imagine 2-3 that all make sense. I have no idea what each team is looking for either. Jrue, Gordon, Barnes, Oubre. All these teams are in weird situations in between rebuilding and contending.

[vincecarter4pres]

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

I don't remember anyone here saying Lopez was a good post defender when he was here. Sounds completely revisionist to me. I do remember Prokhorov going on rants about how he was one of the worst defensive players in the league.

MDB iirc and myself always said Brook was a good post defender and good rim protector. There were others as well, I believe realbig3 and some of the guys who don't post here much anymore, like shakendfries, JG, etc.

I also think the priority should be in getting a wing defender in the East. Someone who can guard Tatum, Giannis, LeBron for a series. Jrue is not gonna be able to do that.

He'll do it better then what we have now. Tbh, no one can really D those guys, but I agree, you still need to land a guy who can D them too and it can't be a specialist who can't shoot, or can't dribble more then once in a straight line, or any guy who you're only playing 24 games a year for 7 minutes and then all of a sudden you're throwing him out there for 3 straight rounds, starting in round 2, for 35 minutes a game. It needs to be a legit starting caliber, athletic NBA player.

I want to see Prince in a good system before I decided that he just can't be good defensively. He has never played on a good team in his career.

I want to see Prince in a different system too, hopefully it's Steve Clifford's, Monty Williams', or Luke Walton's.

In all seriousness, I don't see how he transforms into a good, let alone great, defensive player. He can guard man to man reasonably well, but he's more lost then John Locke as a team defender. If he's still on this roster next season, I'll certainly be pulling for him though.

I don't know why you really want to keep Allen when we already have Jordan. They will both be played out of a playoff series vs Toronto/Boston/LAC.

In a perfect world DeAndre would be the one traded, but if anything it will probably be Allen. That said, I don't see Allen being played out of any series. He can do everything but shoot. He is highly mobile, a good passer, great roll man and finisher and great rebounder. Good guy to have out there with 4 shooters. Maybe he wouldn't finish every game, but having him out there with any combo of Kyrie, KD, Dinwiddie, Harris, LeVert, any defensive guy we trade for or sign, it's a good look when all the other 4 can shoot.

He does have talent, thats why he can get us something useful back. Paying him next off season and investing 20 mill+ in Centers would be a horrible strategy. Trading him would make far more sense that Levert.

Don't necessarily disagree with this as a whole, but if your payroll is 150+ million, it's not the end of the world to spend $20 million on a great center rotation, with Allen being the obvious one to be the long term starter, maybe as early as '21-22.


I know this wasn't for me, but I'm bored and couldn't help myself.

[vincecarter4pres]

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

Although I agree with your sentiment to an extent, you're asking a lot on the fly, for a first time head coach, and a group of players who have very limited experience playing with each other, to suddenly transform themselves into great team defenders. This is a team with a 2 year window, changes pretty much must be made, and almost certainly will be.

I think the writing is on the wall for LeVert. Unless he's dealt in an actual blockbuster, we'll probably roll with him, Imho, as our Ginobili, which is what I've been saying for years, especially the last season, and Steve Nash tends to feel the same.

But I definitely see something happening with picks, prospects and possibly one or both of Dinwiddie and Allen. It's not necessarily even something I personally want, it's just something I personally see happening, unless there's nothing that makes sense out there and they stay here by default.

I do want something where we see salary filler like Prince, Musa and Temple attached to picks and prospects like Claxton and Rodi to get one or 2, 2 way player(s) here. The often talked about guys, like Jrue, Barnes, Gordon, Harris, Richardson, etc. But I tend to think it will also require one or both of Allen and Dinwiddie, or those latter 2 are dealt in another deal.

Like Dinwidde/Temple/Allen/2nd's for Jrue. Allen and even Dinwiddie would probably go to other teams, with picks going back to New Orleans. Maybe Dinwiddie to Dallas for Delon Wright and the 18th for example, Allen to Boston for the 14.

Then we see Prince/Claxton/19th/Musa/maybe '21 1st for Gordon.

Or Prince/Claxton for Barnes or Terrence Ross or Gary Harris, something like that.

Or they trade up into the top 10 while getting back a legitimate positive impact NBA player who is an above average defender and shooter. The Dinwiddie/19/Claxton for Oubre/10 type of deal we keep discussing, forget the Jrue one. And then maybe still deal for a guard like Ross on the cheap if possible.

That way, you're keeping LeVert, the guy locked up on a reasonable contract for 3 years, the guy KD praises, who has ceiling, but you bring in an elite defender at the 2, and another good defender and legitimate 3&D wing who can play the 4 as well. Then it's not as many bad to average defenders you're trying to recreate. Then the guy you add on MLE, BAE, Vet Min, etc., actually has a steady role and minutes.

The bottom line is, though we might not see an out and out blockbuster, but I'd be surprised, borderline shocked, if 1 or 2 significant moves aren't made.

I understand this thought process but Marks has some tough moves to make to pull it off. A lot of dominos need to fall in order to overhaul the team. Its hard to pull off one major trade. Imagine 2-3 that all make sense. I have no idea what each team is looking for either. Jrue, Gordon, Barnes, Oubre. All these teams are in weird situations in between rebuilding and contending.

I don't know there will be 3, unless one is a really small afterthought trade, or a trade up in the draft.

But I'd be surprised if he doesn't pull off at least one significant deal.

There's probably going to be a lot of movement this off-season.

[DeRoma]

Defense is more about effort and the system than it is about talent. Players can re-invent themselves if they have the right coaching.

Look at Brook Lopez for example. Did we ever think he would be a good defender early in his career?

Likewise, we need to trust that we can get guys like, Levert, Dinwddie, Prince to become high level defenders. We can't solve our defensive problems by acquiring one player. It has to be a team effort.

Levert/Dinwddie especially have always had to carry the load offensively and had never had the opportunity to really focus on defense. Both also are long and athletic, they have the right body type to do it.

To be the best version of this team it makes sense to close with our best guys anyway. Hard to see any defensive player we trade for being that good.

I'm fine with trading Jarret Allen for a defensive wing. But I don't think we need a major shakeup at all.

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

I don't remember anyone here saying Lopez was a good post defender when he was here. Sounds completely revisionist to me. I do remember Prokhorov going on rants about how he was one of the worst defensive players in the league.

I didn't say talent "doesn't affect" defense. I said it wasn't the most important factor in a good defense, which is the system and coaching.

One defensive player will certainly help, but it is far more important to have the right system in place with the right coach. If you need evidence just look at the Pelicans which are one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. If Jrue alone was so determinative they would have been better.

I also think the priority should be in getting a wing defender in the East. Someone who can guard Tatum, Giannis, LeBron for a series. Jrue is not gonna be able to do that.

I want to see Prince in a good system before I decided that he just can't be good defensively. He has never played on a good team in his career.

I don't know why you really want to keep Allen when we already have Jordan. They will both be played out of a playoff series vs Toronto/Boston/LAC.

He does have talent, thats why he can get us something useful back. Paying him next off season and investing 20 mill+ in Centers would be a horrible strategy. Trading him would make far more sense that Levert.

And Jordan is not getting traded when he came here at the request of KD/Kyrie. Just accept it.

Prokhorov also wanted to draft Dwayne Bacon over JA, Bam and OG. He also believed we needed to keep dlo over Kyrie. I mean the only time i've seen him post something right about is Joe Harris over Crabbe however, that's just base on dumb luck. So i'm pretty sure he's been wrong atleast 90% of the time. So don't put anything he says by definition of what the general public believes.

I have no idea why you are arguing with me because I agree with you 100% of what you posted I just think you need to add more to the variable.

Yes to a degree the system in place is probably the most important factor of having a good defensive team but system can only go so far as you've seen with the Bucks play the Heat. Their system is so good that they stuck to it then they don't know how to adjust when things are not going as planned because of it. You can only go so far with a system then you have to deal with talent which is the case for everyone left in the playoffs.

Jrue also played with a young team with no plans of success. Their maturity level in terms of winning is not on par with what kind of standard we are trying to hold next year. The Pelicans are at the moment (i.e. BI, Lonzo, Zion, Hart, Hayes, etc.) are still trying to establish themselves a role in a league to prove that they belong. Basically it's similar to us 3 years ago when we still had Lin. The only difference is they won more than us because their talent level in comparison to ours at the time was just miles above. Right now we have an established team that can still grow what we are missing is discipline towards details of the game. My point is Jrue, JJ, and Favors were just there to bring in leadership but not to the extent on what we are trying to do. Jrue will bring in a different kind of leadership quality with us because he has the league's respect and accolades to back up what he does best.

We do have a wing defender in Prince. Jrue can also defend those guys. defending stars aren't about 1vs1 it's basically 1vs team. It's not like you are gonna stop any of those guys. You rotate guys to defend stars in order to force them different looks every possession.

Allen and DJ aren't similar players at all. Allen practically does everything twice as better than DJ can the only thing DJ has on allen is that he is a better passer and he can defend bigger guys like Embiid. Allen was under utilize with us. LIke you said our system was complete ass. Allen is probably the most mobile rim runner with size in the league. He can defend perimeter guys like how vaughn utilized him in the bubble where we were putting Allen against Giannis. Yet, we forced him due to the system to stay in paint at all cost given that we lack a perimeter defenders we have. In actuality you can play a modern defensive system with Allen and switch everything. Which is a tool used by the rockets on defense and they are one of the best defensive team in the league post Capela.

Never say never with Jordan KD understands analytics and if he wants to win than just playing with friends he'd be ok trading DJ.

[Hello Brooklyn]

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

I don't remember anyone here saying Lopez was a good post defender when he was here. Sounds completely revisionist to me. I do remember Prokhorov going on rants about how he was one of the worst defensive players in the league.

I didn't say talent "doesn't affect" defense. I said it wasn't the most important factor in a good defense, which is the system and coaching.

One defensive player will certainly help, but it is far more important to have the right system in place with the right coach. If you need evidence just look at the Pelicans which are one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. If Jrue alone was so determinative they would have been better.

I also think the priority should be in getting a wing defender in the East. Someone who can guard Tatum, Giannis, LeBron for a series. Jrue is not gonna be able to do that.

I want to see Prince in a good system before I decided that he just can't be good defensively. He has never played on a good team in his career.

I don't know why you really want to keep Allen when we already have Jordan. They will both be played out of a playoff series vs Toronto/Boston/LAC.

He does have talent, thats why he can get us something useful back. Paying him next off season and investing 20 mill+ in Centers would be a horrible strategy. Trading him would make far more sense that Levert.

And Jordan is not getting traded when he came here at the request of KD/Kyrie. Just accept it.

Prokhorov also wanted to draft Dwayne Bacon over JA, Bam and OG. He also believed we needed to keep dlo over Kyrie. I mean the only time i've seen him post something right about is Joe Harris over Crabbe however, that's just base on dumb luck. So i'm pretty sure he's been wrong atleast 90% of the time. So don't put anything he says by definition of what the general public believes.

I have no idea why you are arguing with me because I agree with you 100% of what you posted I just think you need to add more to the variable.

Yes to a degree the system in place is probably the most important factor of having a good defensive team but system can only go so far as you've seen with the Bucks play the Heat. Their system is so good that they stuck to it then they don't know how to adjust when things are not going as planned because of it. You can only go so far with a system then you have to deal with talent which is the case for everyone left in the playoffs.

Jrue also played with a young team with no plans of success. Their maturity level in terms of winning is not on par with what kind of standard we are trying to hold next year. The Pelicans are at the moment (i.e. BI, Lonzo, Zion, Hart, Hayes, etc.) are still trying to establish themselves a role in a league to prove that they belong. Basically it's similar to us 3 years ago when we still had Lin. The only difference is they won more than us because their talent level in comparison to ours at the time was just miles above. Right now we have an established team that can still grow what we are missing is discipline towards details of the game. My point is Jrue, JJ, and Favors were just there to bring in leadership but not to the extent on what we are trying to do. Jrue will bring in a different kind of leadership quality with us because he has the league's respect and accolades to back up what he does best.

We do have a wing defender in Prince. Jrue can also defend those guys. defending stars aren't about 1vs1 it's basically 1vs team. It's not like you are gonna stop any of those guys. You rotate guys to defend stars in order to force them different looks every possession.

Allen and DJ aren't similar players at all. Allen practically does everything twice as better than DJ can the only thing DJ has on allen is that he is a better passer and he can defend bigger guys like Embiid. Allen was under utilize with us. LIke you said our system was complete ass. Allen is probably the most mobile rim runner with size in the league. He can defend perimeter guys like how vaughn utilized him in the bubble where we were putting Allen against Giannis. Yet, we forced him due to the system to stay in paint at all cost given that we lack a perimeter defenders we have. In actuality you can play a modern defensive system with Allen and switch everything. Which is a tool used by the rockets on defense and they are one of the best defensive team in the league post Capela.

Never say never with Jordan KD understands analytics and if he wants to win than just playing with friends he'd be ok trading DJ.

Ok fair point on Prokhorov.

This wasn't necessarily an argument. I just thought we were having a discussion.

I'm gonna disagree with you about Allen being able to switch on perimeter defenders. But I guess we do have to see him in the right system to make that judgement. I completely agree with you that our system sucked. Atkinson was not nearly as good as non-Nets fans thought he was.

I'm willing to give him a chance. But I don't see the wisdom of having both on our roster when at a premium cost all the best team leagues seem to rarely play their Centers in the playoffs.

Its an unreasonable ask to tell KD we will trade Jordan when he specifically wanted to play with him and Kyrie in Brooklyn. Its one of the main reasons he signed here.

I think we are stuck with him. I would have preferred not signing him at all and keeping Allen.

[MrDollarBills]

While I agree in general that defense is about effort and the system. I believe there are more intangible variables that comes along with having a great defensive team. The way you play your offensive sets also effects your defense. Like for example if you play a slower pace system it forces to slow down the game which tend to slow the opposing team down as which gives more tendencies for our players to get back on defense. Also talent definitely effects your defense there is no question about that.

Brook is not a good example for many different reasons. While you can say he is a product of a system in the bucks(which is true) He also was always a good shot blocker and a good post defender even when he was playing with us. He also has a 7'5 wingspan which is an innate(talent) weapon for defense. It also can't hurt playing alongside with giannis where he covers a ton of Brook's weaknesses. His defensive responsibilities were so small. All he needs to do was clog the driving lane and contest anything that gets passed giannis which is already a challenge. You can't say the same thing with a guy like Joe Harris. If you do the eyeball test with him he tries HARD on defense. however while being strong, his lack of lateral speed and wingspan you can only do so much as a defender.

While I agree that both LeVert and Dinwiddie having the potential to step up on defense because they have the attributes to be good defenders (especially Dinwiddie). To say that one defensive player won't effect the team is completely not true. Having one good defenders like Jrue can completely impact the rest of the roster's mentality on their take on defense. Like think about it what do you think will happen if Jrue is mentoring guys like Spence/Caris/Prince we all know they have the attributes to be good defenders they have the lateral speed, wingspan, effort already in place. What if a guy like Jrue show them his take to be a good defensively on the perimeter? I'm 100% sure since Prince main problem is low IQ he will benefit a ton from playing next to a guy like Jrue.

Also FYI I would try to keep Allen as much as possible. It's coming to a point that everyone (even Nets fans) is severely underrating his talent in a big way. The real main problem we have is DJ and LeVert who needs to go IMO.

I don't remember anyone here saying Lopez was a good post defender when he was here. Sounds completely revisionist to me. I do remember Prokhorov going on rants about how he was one of the worst defensive players in the league.

MDB iirc and myself always said Brook was a good post defender and good rim protector. There were others as well, I believe realbig3 and some of the guys who don't post here much anymore, like shakendfries, JG, etc.

I also think the priority should be in getting a wing defender in the East. Someone who can guard Tatum, Giannis, LeBron for a series. Jrue is not gonna be able to do that.

He'll do it better then what we have now. Tbh, no one can really D those guys, but I agree, you still need to land a guy who can D them too and it can't be a specialist who can't shoot, or can't dribble more then once in a straight line, or any guy who you're only playing 24 games a year for 7 minutes and then all of a sudden you're throwing him out there for 3 straight rounds, starting in round 2, for 35 minutes a game. It needs to be a legit starting caliber, athletic NBA player.

I want to see Prince in a good system before I decided that he just can't be good defensively. He has never played on a good team in his career.

I want to see Prince in a different system too, hopefully it's Steve Clifford's, Monty Williams', or Luke Walton's.

In all seriousness, I don't see how he transforms into a good, let alone great, defensive player. He can guard man to man reasonably well, but he's more lost then John Locke as a team defender. If he's still on this roster next season, I'll certainly be pulling for him though.

I don't know why you really want to keep Allen when we already have Jordan. They will both be played out of a playoff series vs Toronto/Boston/LAC.

In a perfect world DeAndre would be the one traded, but if anything it will probably be Allen. That said, I don't see Allen being played out of any series. He can do everything but shoot. He is highly mobile, a good passer, great roll man and finisher and great rebounder. Good guy to have out there with 4 shooters. Maybe he wouldn't finish every game, but having him out there with any combo of Kyrie, KD, Dinwiddie, Harris, LeVert, any defensive guy we trade for or sign, it's a good look when all the other 4 can shoot.

He does have talent, thats why he can get us something useful back. Paying him next off season and investing 20 mill+ in Centers would be a horrible strategy. Trading him would make far more sense that Levert.

Don't necessarily disagree with this as a whole, but if your payroll is 150+ million, it's not the end of the world to spend $20 million on a great center rotation, with Allen being the obvious one to be the long term starter, maybe as early as '21-22.


I know this wasn't for me, but I'm bored and couldn't help myself.

Brook was always a good defender in the post and at the rim. It's just when he got switched on pick and rolls is when he got into trouble.

[MrDollarBills]

If you watched what Bam Adebayo just did to Jason Tatum, this is exactly why valuing going small or devaluing rim defense is asinine. You need interior defense to win in the NBA.

[DarkXaero]

If you watched what Bam Adebayo just did to Jason Tatum, this is exactly why valuing going small or devaluing rim defense is asinine. You need interior defense to win in the NBA.

I don't think anyone is saying that we don't need rim protection. But we're an already an above average rim protection team on paper. Not just with Allen, and DJ, but also KD in the fold next year, who did that for Golden State. You also need good perimeter defenders though which we lack.

[Papi_swav]

I see a lot of the, "We can just sign a defender", crowd still and while it's a nice thought, there pretty much has to be a trade. Again, this isn't football, you can't sub in and out for D all game, you need one guy who can guard all over, who is also a good offensive player, who you can move at least 1-3 and ideally even some 4 and keep on the floor 30 something minutes a night and will be a positive on both ends and be able to space the floor. This team still lacks that. Yes, we still would need a Jeff Green, or Harkless, someone like that. But you need a Marcus Smart, Robert Covington, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Anunoby, Barnes, Norman Powell, or even Gary Harris or Terrence Ross, assuming you can get your hands on one with some of our pieces.

Exactly, you hit it right on the head. These guys think we can just get any minimum wage guy in FA and he'll come right in and be our all first NBA defensive guy, it doesn't work like that . Those guys are not all over the FA market. We would have to trade for that guy. Only guys that comes close to that in FA are Dunn and maybe Jae Crowder but Dunns offense hasn't come along yet, Jae can make shots but he'll be a little expensive.