Giannis Thread - 2 Time MVP - The Contract discussions

[emunney]

IMO the "hump" we're trying to get over is an illusion. That doesn't mean we should ever be complacent with the roster, but it does mean that if we stand still we should expect to be in the mix. Giannis is going to be better again, for one thing.

Media won't take us seriously next year regardless of what we do. We're not going to enjoy the regular season that much regardless of what we do. But there are many good reasons why Miami beating us was a huge upset, and it doesn't become not an upset in hindsight.

[MickeyDavis]

We know Giannis is private. Do we think he likes the owner going straight to the multiple media people with details about their meeting?

Not sure but I feel like Saratsis thinks he's a master manipulator.

Definitely. Until Giannis signs the max, here or elsewhere, he is a big factor. In the interviews I've seen with him and in Finding Giannis he comes off as a nice guy but this is a first time he's had some power. It will be interesting if he stays behind the scenes or seeks the spotlight. Seeking the spotlight wouldn't be the worst thing Saratsis could do, it would take some of it off Giannis.

[mke_design]

If Lavine is a realistic option I'd favor him, and that feels weird to say it. I think whomever runs the point has to be capable of getting scorching hot shooting threes. The wall that will forever be erected to limit Giannis also gums things up for break down the defense get in the lane and finish type guys. I think it made for tough sledding for Bledsoe with a similar attack heavy offense. After last year Lavine's contract seems fair. Paul's contract is insane, and while he definitely had more left than I thought this year, any year could be a dropoff year.

Just watching some plays from last season of him he is somebody that would thrive with Giannis - he can create his own shot and get into the teeth of a defense and finish. At least he can dunk and take a step back 3.

[Fotis St]

That's the foundation of the WALL
created by Bud's & Horst Co - Flying Bricks


Pat Connaughton.....67 games 18.6min 3P% 33.1 , 0.8 / 2.5 3PA
Donte DiVincenzo....66 games 23min 3P% 33.6 , 1.3 / 3.7 3PA
Brook Lopez...........67 games 26.7min 3P% 31.4 , 1.5 / 4.8 3PA

Eric Bledsoe...........61games 27min 3P% 34.4 , 1.2 / 3.5 3PA
Wes Mathews......... 67games 24.4min 3P% 36.4 , 1.6 / 4.4 3PA

This is not a supporting cast for Giannis , he is not surrounded by shooters ,
consider one more thing , most of these attempts are WIDE OPEN 3P shots cause of Giannis gravity

[WRau1]

If Giannis wants to go "ThroughTheWall" he needs to move to C fulltime and we need to trade everyone except Middleton. Keep Middleton only because I don't think we could get equal value for what he brings.

[Diggr14]

Giannis meant by unconventional... Bring back Bari.

[SirChurros]

That's the foundation of the WALL
created by Bud's & Horst Co - Flying Bricks


Pat Connaughton.....67 games 18.6min 3P% 33.1 , 0.8 / 2.5 3PA
Donte DiVincenzo....66 games 23min 3P% 33.6 , 1.3 / 3.7 3PA
Brook Lopez...........67 games 26.7min 3P% 31.4 , 1.5 / 4.8 3PA

Eric Bledsoe...........61games 27min 3P% 34.4 , 1.2 / 3.5 3PA
Wes Mathews......... 67games 24.4min 3P% 36.4 , 1.6 / 4.4 3PA

This is not a supporting cast for Giannis , he is not surrounded by shooters ,
consider one more thing , most of these attempts are WIDE OPEN 3P shots cause of Giannis gravity

Can you provide the percentage of wide open looks vs. contested? Or is that just an assumption?

Because, without looking, I would guess that most of them are NOT wide open because Giannis is usually late to pass out of a double team or late to pass out of running into the wall.

[skones]

That's the foundation of the WALL
created by Bud's & Horst Co - Flying Bricks


Pat Connaughton.....67 games 18.6min 3P% 33.1 , 0.8 / 2.5 3PA
Donte DiVincenzo....66 games 23min 3P% 33.6 , 1.3 / 3.7 3PA
Brook Lopez...........67 games 26.7min 3P% 31.4 , 1.5 / 4.8 3PA

Eric Bledsoe...........61games 27min 3P% 34.4 , 1.2 / 3.5 3PA
Wes Mathews......... 67games 24.4min 3P% 36.4 , 1.6 / 4.4 3PA

This is not a supporting cast for Giannis , he is not surrounded by shooters ,
consider one more thing , most of these attempts are WIDE OPEN 3P shots cause of Giannis gravity

Can you provide the percentage of wide open looks vs. contested? Or is that just an assumption?

Because, without looking, I would guess that most of them are NOT wide open because Giannis is usually late to pass out of a double team or late to pass out of running into the wall.

Bledsoe and Brook dragged everyone else down. Without looking again at it and going off memory.

Bled is around 33. Brook around 31. Donte 38. Wes is at around 39. Pat 37. Percentages classified as "Wide Open."

[emunney]

The idea that the wall is going to come down because the 3pt shooter shoots 3% higher is fantasy. Giannis downhill in the paint is death, everybody knows that, nobody's going to adjust away from preventing that at all costs. The guy would have to shoot 52% from 3 to break even with Giannis inside of 3 feet. The math is never going to work out. Guarding Giannis with one guy is like not guarding Steph Curry.

[SirChurros]

The idea that the wall is going to come down because the 3pt shooter shoots 3% higher is fantasy. Giannis downhill in the paint is death, everybody knows that, nobody's going to adjust away from preventing that at all costs. The guy would have to shoot 52% from 3 to break even with Giannis inside of 3 feet. The math is never going to work out. Guarding Giannis with one guy is like not guarding Steph Curry.

Also very true. Teams are always going to gamble on letting the Bucks shoot open threes as opposed to letting Giannis score at the rim.

[machu46]

The idea that the wall is going to come down because the 3pt shooter shoots 3% higher is fantasy. Giannis downhill in the paint is death, everybody knows that, nobody's going to adjust away from preventing that at all costs. The guy would have to shoot 52% from 3 to break even with Giannis inside of 3 feet. The math is never going to work out. Guarding Giannis with one guy is like not guarding Steph Curry.

Yeah I think that's undoubtedly true and that's why Dragic's comments the other day made me kinda roll my eyes. Yeah, the pieces around Tatum might be more dangerous but it's more about the fact that Miami knows they at least have a chance if they guard Tatum well 1 on 1. There is no guarding Giannis 1 on 1.

The question is if we can hit enough shots out of the wall that it's a losing formula for the defense (even if anything but the wall is MORE of a losing formula) or if we can create opportunities for Giannis to attack without a wall. We already did the 2nd one a decent amount but Giannis was too slow to take advantage of those situations. We definitely did not do the first.

[averageposter]

The idea that the wall is going to come down because the 3pt shooter shoots 3% higher is fantasy. Giannis downhill in the paint is death, everybody knows that, nobody's going to adjust away from preventing that at all costs. The guy would have to shoot 52% from 3 to break even with Giannis inside of 3 feet. The math is never going to work out. Guarding Giannis with one guy is like not guarding Steph Curry.

The question is if we can hit enough shots out of the wall that it's a losing formula for the defense (even if anything but the whole is MORE of a losing formula) or if we can create opportunities for Giannis to attack without a wall. We already did the 2nd one a decent amount but Giannis was too slow to take advantage of those situations. We definitely did not do the first.

Yeah, its frustrating that this roster had historically decent to good three point shooters but our attempts from say a half dozen guys are in that 2-3 a game category, we needed more threes up, and more to go down as a rule. And with the wall I would have guessed these guys would be getting a bump in efficiency. Some of these guys playing as part of a 10 deep rotation may have improved individually earning more minutes but there isn't a volume guy there besides Korver especially not by todays standards. I liked the idea of Lavine, bad shot selection, on a bad team aside, he was 8 a game at 38.5% basically 13th in the league in attempts at a nice percentage.

[emunney]

The idea that the wall is going to come down because the 3pt shooter shoots 3% higher is fantasy. Giannis downhill in the paint is death, everybody knows that, nobody's going to adjust away from preventing that at all costs. The guy would have to shoot 52% from 3 to break even with Giannis inside of 3 feet. The math is never going to work out. Guarding Giannis with one guy is like not guarding Steph Curry.

Yeah I think that's undoubtedly true and that's why Dragic's comments the other day made me kinda roll my eyes. Yeah, the pieces around Tatum might be more dangerous but it's more about the fact that Miami knows they at least have a chance if they guard Tatum well 1 on 1. There is no guarding Giannis 1 on 1.

The question is if we can hit enough shots out of the wall that it's a losing formula for the defense (even if anything but the whole is MORE of a losing formula) or if we can create opportunities for Giannis to attack without a wall. We already did the 2nd one a decent amount but Giannis was too slow to take advantage of those situations. We definitely did not do the first.

Defense is super important, because we're a lot more likely to get a transition or semi-transition out of a miss. If we get Lavine and he scores a bunch of points in the half court but they're still less efficient than the transition opportunities we're giving up by playing Lavine on defense, what are we getting out of the exchange? Resentment?

We can't just look at one thing. For example, what would it do for us to have an elite vertical spacer so that if Giannis catches on a short roll he can just throw it up in the air for a dunk? Or even among the guys we already have -- look how much better we play when Donte's playing to his ability, even when he's not making shots. What can we learn from that?

[Chuck Diesel]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

[StickeeFingaz]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

“I still think Giannis doesn’t have so much help,” Dragic said, via Jay King of The Athletic. “Tatum, if you look, he’s got around (him) Kemba and Brown. He’s the leader of that team, no doubt. We need to prepare for him, but we cannot just throw out the whole defense at him and forget about other guys.”

[machu46]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

Basically just said Miami could throw the whole defense at Giannis but can't do that with Tatum because Kemba, Jaylen, etc. exist. But in reality even if Giannis had those guys around him, they're probably building the wall against Giannis anyways because he's pretty much unstoppable otherwise. Tatum isn't unstoppable even if he's star in his own right.

[th87]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

“I still think Giannis doesn’t have so much help,” Dragic said, via Jay King of The Athletic. “Tatum, if you look, he’s got around (him) Kemba and Brown. He’s the leader of that team, no doubt. We need to prepare for him, but we cannot just throw out the whole defense at him and forget about other guys.”

Stealth ploy to get him to question his teammates and sign with Miami.

[greekbuck34]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

“I still think Giannis doesn’t have so much help,” Dragic said, via Jay King of The Athletic. “Tatum, if you look, he’s got around (him) Kemba and Brown. He’s the leader of that team, no doubt. We need to prepare for him, but we cannot just throw out the whole defense at him and forget about other guys.”

Tell Dragic this is a bucks forum. If he wants to say crap like that he should go to a Giannis forum or even better a greek forum.
Dragic should stop lying to himself and realize that Giannis' game is very limited against a defense of 3, 4 or 5 defenders and he should improve if we ever like to get a championship in the future.
His supporting cast sure has its faults but that's not the real problem.
Our shooters are very capable in reality.
Dragic should tell Giannis instead that whoever he goes it will be the same.
It's his fault in the end.

[soxperry]

I missed Dragic’s comments. What did say?

Basically just said Miami could throw the whole defense at Giannis but can't do that with Tatum because Kemba, Jaylen, etc. exist. But in reality even if Giannis had those guys around him, they're probably building the wall against Giannis anyways because he's pretty much unstoppable otherwise. Tatum isn't unstoppable even if he's star in his own right.

Well, is he wrong?

It's not just 3 point attempts. It's overall offensive ability. Khris and Brook are the only guys with more than one dimension on offense and neither of them can handle the ball very well so we are just not a dynamic offense. All of this doesn't matter in the regular season, and it may have even been covered up a bit in a normal season with home court advantage, but the fact remains that we are a very flawed team offensively. I dont honestly know how we fix that.

[RogerMurdock]

So is Giannis buying the Bucks or not?