The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[76ciology]

It's simple, Ben cannot be your first option, maybe not second option too depending on his future improvements. But the difference is that he is suited for the modern game unlike Embiid, with a proper coach and system he just doesn't kill ball movement and is capable of making other players better thanks to his passing and playmaking skillset, he is the perfect second/third option that any team needs.
We still need to find that unicorn guy that can score on the ball however, and that's easily the hardest part.

Sorry but isn’t this contradictory?

[phillynative]

Do you guys think Ben will be better than Russell Westbrook?

Ive been looking at both guys’ numbers and see a lot of similarities. But RW has been way better on aggressiveness on offense, 3pt shooting, FT shooting and scoring. And if these three departments are what Ben will focus on improving, then is RW just his utmost upside?

I've thought about it all year. Offensively I just don't think so. Defensively he's light year's ahead.

This postseason has shed a lot of light on Ben Simmons type players. Giannis, Pascal, Russ that are basically transition dynamos with limited half court ability, and Ben has the least half court ability currently. Even if we get to see him become an elite roll man someday, that's not something you can rely on in crunch time.

Ben is currently not even in the same boat as those players. Those guys they atleast have to be accounted for on offense .
Russ can get to any spot he wants on the floor with his ball handling and explosiveness. What he chooses to do when he gets to that spot is a mixed bag. Siakim is overrated as a first option but he does have some inside/outside ability along the lines of antwan jamison.. Giannis is the best finisher in the league whether thats full court or halfcourt.

Ben just does not have any of the above abilities. Thats is a huge concern going forward with a max player that refuses to shoot when wiiide open.

[phillynative]

It's simple, Ben cannot be your first option, maybe not second option too depending on his future improvements. But the difference is that he is suited for the modern game unlike Embiid, with a proper coach and system he just doesn't kill ball movement and is capable of making other players better thanks to his passing and playmaking skillset, he is the perfect second/third option that any team needs.
We still need to find that unicorn guy that can score on the ball however, and that's easily the hardest part.

Ben is a very good athlete, defender and passer. But he is a point forward who doesnt drive the ball, break down the defense in the halfcourt or shoot the ball when open . I dont see how that is more suited for the modern game. If he is not going to expand his game then this team is going no where with him and his max.

[Bum Adebayo]

It's simple, Ben cannot be your first option, maybe not second option too depending on his future improvements. But the difference is that he is suited for the modern game unlike Embiid, with a proper coach and system he just doesn't kill ball movement and is capable of making other players better thanks to his passing and playmaking skillset, he is the perfect second/third option that any team needs.
We still need to find that unicorn guy that can score on the ball however, and that's easily the hardest part.

Sorry but isn’t this contradictory?

It isn't? he is perfect as a second option if he improves his shooting and aggresiveness, and as a third option if he does not. It's just that he cannot be asked to carry a team, he is not good enough to do that, because he cannot score on the ball, and even if he improves, I don't see him being that.
The Simmons being around 4 shooters thing only works in RS, in playoffs you need one player that can put pressure in half court. You would need one of these shooters to also be an elite shot creator, in that case he is the first option and not Ben.

[M2J]

Even without the shot, the aggressiveness alone could make him elite, with some changes. That's a mentality. Think Jason Kidd or to a much greater extent Magic. Even if they couldn't shoot, they were aggressive playmakers. Even if the defense weren't expecting them to look to score, they activated everyone else with their aggressiveness and most importantly directed the offense with leadership. Their leadership made players run, and made them cut and look for the basketball. Teammates wanted Kidd to see something in their abilities, similar to what LeBron does today as a passer on a team with limited shooting. Teammates don't think that way of Ben, because he doesn't even see something in himself.

Kidd would try to create havoc defensively which Ben can do, and offensively with unorthodox passes and attempts to get to the basket via the drive or backing down opponents. When he does that, players just need to move and he'd find them. That's good enough to carry you through much of the game, even in the playoffs. You could then orchestrate the offense through the post with Joel, and others in crunch time.

He just has to take a leap.

[76ciology]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1395121&start=760

Read this thread. It’s so gold. It’s back in 2015.

Everybody has changed from Jamal Murray to Jaylen Brown to Ingram.

Ben? The issues and the topics we’re talking back then is still the same in this thread

[DT RAW]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

[Eyeamok]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

And that is why we are called fans...short for fanatics.

[Stanford]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

That has nothing to do with Ben Simmons. I think every player on other teams are overrated.

[76ciology]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1395121&start=760

Read this thread. It’s so gold. It’s back in 2015.

Everybody has changed from Jamal Murray to Jaylen Brown to Ingram.

Ben? The issues and the topics we’re talking back then is still the same in this thread

I don’t have the facts to back this.

But if there’s a guy who looks like is more concerned to make himself look good than making his team win, it’s Ben.

Just reading from his LSU days, he would pad stats against weak teams and his team was never a winning team. Then you can see it with us, he won’t shoot the ball or defer to the dunker spot that would be a setback for his image.

“There are some guys who are more concerned on money and fame” - Jimmy Butler on TJ McConnell

He’s smart though. If guys like Evan Turner or Lou Williams never deferred to their role, with constant hype machine then they could maybe make it to atleast a borderline to an allstar.

[kio80]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

Why are you still here? You are obviously not part of the Philly fan base


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bum Adebayo]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1395121&start=760

Read this thread. It’s so gold. It’s back in 2015.

Everybody has changed from Jamal Murray to Jaylen Brown to Ingram.

Ben? The issues and the topics we’re talking back then is still the same in this thread

I don’t have the facts to back this.

But if there’s a guy who looks like is more concerned to make himself look good than making his team win, it’s Ben.

Just reading from his LSU days, he would pad stats against weak teams and his team was never a winning team. Then you can see it with us, he won’t shoot the ball or defer to the dunker spot that would be a setback for his image.

“There are some guys who are more concerned on money and fame” - Jimmy Butler on TJ McConnell

He’s smart though. If guys like Evan Turner or Lou Williams never deferred to their role, with constant hype machine then they could maybe make it to atleast a borderline to an allstar.

Yeah his attitude was a red flag pre draft, it's just that it was a weak draft, or at least it was perceived as one, and talent wise there is no doubt Simmons was far ahead of everyone else. Too bad talent is only part of the equation...
In retrospect though, it is becoming increasingly clear that you only draft a guy that can score on the ball with the 1st pick, unless the draft is abnormally bad and lacking of those players.

[kio80]

Agree that Ben needs to take a leap real soon, he has already been surpassed by a few in the same draft, and improvement wise, I won’t say he’s been stagnant, but it’s been rather disappointing.
However I do not agree with the stat padding part, he’s been a pass first point guard/forward since years ago and he has never looked like he cared too much about the stats ( shooting percentage aside, which isn’t really stat padding per se), or he won’t have becoming a DPOY as his goal, that’s pretty much the opposite of stat padding.

[76ciology]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1395121&start=760

Read this thread. It’s so gold. It’s back in 2015.

Everybody has changed from Jamal Murray to Jaylen Brown to Ingram.

Ben? The issues and the topics we’re talking back then is still the same in this thread

I don’t have the facts to back this.

But if there’s a guy who looks like is more concerned to make himself look good than making his team win, it’s Ben.

Just reading from his LSU days, he would pad stats against weak teams and his team was never a winning team. Then you can see it with us, he won’t shoot the ball or defer to the dunker spot that would be a setback for his image.

“There are some guys who are more concerned on money and fame” - Jimmy Butler on TJ McConnell

He’s smart though. If guys like Evan Turner or Lou Williams never deferred to their role, with constant hype machine then they could maybe make it to atleast a borderline to an allstar.

Yeah his attitude was a red flag pre draft, it's just that it was a weak draft, or at least it was perceived as one, and talent wise there is no doubt Simmons was far ahead of everyone else. Too bad talent is only part of the equation...
In retrospect though, it is becoming increasingly clear that you only draft a guy that can score on the ball with the 1st pick, unless the draft is abnormally bad and lacking of those players.

I was more of an Ingram guy back then and still is. But I’m rooting hard for Ben right now because my team’s success is depending a lot from him.

And honestly? The best thing for me about sports is rooting for the underdog.

[DT RAW]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

Why are you still here? You are obviously not part of the Philly fan base


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

last I checked this was the philadelphia 76ers message board and fan base

not the "you have to support ben simmons 76ers fanbase"

get simmons out of here

[kio80]

if simmons played on any other of the 29 teams in this league, the same people in this fanbase religiously defending him would be talking about how over rated he is, and how they wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole in a trade. Guaranteed that is how they would act.

Why are you still here? You are obviously not part of the Philly fan base


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

last I checked this was the philadelphia 76ers message board and fan base

not the "you have to support ben simmons 76ers fanbase"

get simmons out of here

LOL, we tell it like it is with whoever the player is, I am ok with all the negative comments in regards to both our stars, Ben and Joel. But when idiots start saying stupid **** without facts and brains, there’s where I draw the line.


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[Zumramania]

Agree that Ben needs to take a leap real soon, he has already been surpassed by a few in the same draft, and improvement wise, I won’t say he’s been stagnant, but it’s been rather disappointing.
However I do not agree with the stat padding part, he’s been a pass first point guard/forward since years ago and he has never looked like he cared too much about the stats ( shooting percentage aside, which isn’t really stat padding per se), or he won’t have becoming a DPOY as his goal, that’s pretty much the opposite of stat padding.

Ben is not padding regular stats, he is padding advanced stats

But yeah, I think he is afraid of failure and wants to look good all the time, and you can' learn like that. Hope he's working on it with that therapist.

[Mik317]

3rd team all NBA

mans never gonna shoot now

(congrats Ben)

[76ciology]

:

3rd team all NBA

mans never gonna shoot now

(congrats Ben)

Man.. how did a 16ppg guard won this award?

[76ciology]

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What does this mean? Haha