Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title

[Joao Saraiva]

LeBron has to be the GOAT if it goes along with your criteria.

He fits mine right now, but I'm not gonna act like others don't have a case according to other criterias.

[Freighttrain]

This thread isn't toxic at all. Anyway all I'm gonna say is, enjoy the ride and don't take what he does for granted because one day he'll be gone and we'll wonder if we are ever gonna see someone like him.

[LAKESHOW]

IF Lebron wins this year. He will and should be crowned, G.O.A.T.
I would add. Not only numbers of rings 4. But LED 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. Just unheard of and extremely difficult, rather than just staying with a single solitary team. MJ or KOBE could not win with 3 different teams

[tyguy]

This thread isn't toxic at all. Anyway all I'm gonna say is, enjoy the ride and don't take what he does for granted because one day he'll be gone and we'll wonder if we are ever gonna see someone like him.

His entire career has been like this. Ever since he stepped foot into the nba his career has been under a microscope being compared unfavorably to Jordan since day 1. I agree, once he stops playing people will miss him.

[TheFinishSniper]

jordan fans are worried about this situation

they will NEVER EVER EVER be worried about this situation. put that clearly in head of yours. but dont worry rest of us will always be here as guardians so idiots never get chance to push false narratives which fits their ideology.

you are worried and are only acting like you arent worried as a tactic to downplay lebron, its ok to admit this

i personally guarantee that the jordan fans including you are rooting against lebron every season and dont want him to add to his championship total, if you dont mind how lebron does then feel free to refute this accusation

there is absolutely zero facts which supports lebron being goat. mj fans took this bullcrap through kobe years, and now through lebron. it's ridiculous really I need to come here and say that. when player better than jordan appears in NBA I will be first to say and admit he is better than MJ. but this false narratives are not only getting ridiculous but are sad. and I feel sorry for guys who think and are actually convinced lebron is goat. it's like watching people telling earth is not round on this board. you can tell it but I ill try be here to say it otherwise.

[Lepramaniac]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

[JoeyLightYears]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

[-MetA4-]

IF Lebron wins this year. He will and should be crowned, G.O.A.T.
I would add. Not only numbers of rings 4. But LED 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. Just unheard of and extremely difficult, rather than just staying with a single solitary team. MJ or KOBE could not win with 3 different teams

What a crock of s***. Taking one team from the complete gutter to two 3-peats (which EASILY could have been 8 in a row) is considerably more difficult than what LeBron would have done to win with three different teams (assuming he wins this year). The Miami Heat had already won a title with Wade before LeBron even got there; he hopped on with Bosh (another star) to form a championship team before they even stepped foot on the court together. There is virtually nothing impressive about that. This year's hypothetical Lakers win wherein he just walked onto a team with Anthony Davis (another Top 5 player) falls in the exact same category. You are talking as if there was some sort of struggle for him to accomplish those title wins. LeBron DID struggle with Cleveland...and he showed that he couldn't do it so he bounced. Michael Jordan got his ass kicked by the Celtics and Pistons and came back and overcame that. And here's the kicker: once Jordan hit his stride and won, NO ONE else could even sniff a title until he retired. He locked the whole ****ing league down; so much so that theres about a half-dozen all-time greats that never won a title because it was Jordan's league and they were there for the ride. Have you noticed that during LeBron's entire "reign", it really hasn't been that hard for other teams to steal titles from him? Even an average-ass Mavericks team somehow beat him. Dirk would never sniff a title playing during Jordan's reign, period.

Also, there is something to be said for complacency and guys getting soft after winning. The reason why dynasties are so rare is because its incredibly difficult for a team to maintain a championship drive for that many years without getting too full of themselves or content. Jordan did it twice, and the second run he literally gave time for the rest of the league to catch up in his absence and it still meant nothing: once he decided he was back, the titles were his.

[Ugalde]

Jordan GOAT

[gp2015]

IF Lebron wins this year. He will and should be crowned, G.O.A.T.
I would add. Not only numbers of rings 4. But LED 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. Just unheard of and extremely difficult, rather than just staying with a single solitary team. MJ or KOBE could not win with 3 different teams

You shouldn't penalize a player for staying with one team, especially when they've been as successful with that one team as MJ and Kobe were.

Players change teams because they can't win with their current team and lately, it's to make it easier on themselves to get a ring.

You can't make the conclusion that MJ or Kobe couldn't have done the same thing. They just never tried because they wanted to stick it out and win on their own team.

[Homer38]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

One bad season because of the injuries don't make a career...He had 16 others years...

[OdomFan]

People who don't want Lebron to be GOAT won't accept that he he could be no matter what. There's a lot of bias at play from people who grew up watching MJ (I grew up watching MJ).

I probably will have them at 1a and 1b not matter if Lebron wins it all another time (I don't think championships are an individual award, I care about how you play).

I just wish people admitted that who they have number 1 is dependant on their own personal take on peak vs longevity. And I wish that people kept the same criteria to rank other players after that. You sometimes see people who think MJ is WAY ahead of Lebron because of a slightly better peak, but then they'll rank a player with better longevity ahead of a player with a slightly better peak.

Yeah? well I wish people would remember that every team has a leader, which is what MJ and Lebron have always been for their NBA squads. The team deserves credit for every win and loss sure, but the leader of that team also deserve a major part of it for leading their squad which ever direction year after year after year of their overall careers. Lebron may have played longer, but MJ was able to make a bigger impact in a shorter amount of time. There for he's the greater player/leader.

I never said that the leader shouldn't get a bigger share of the credit... he should. But I don't think Jordan was that much more impactful at his peak, I think he had a better team around him for most of those years. I think Lebron had maybe 2-3 supporting casts that was as good as what MJ had in his 6 championships. I also don't think MJ ever faced a team as good as the Warriors.

In the end it's all about how you interpret peak vs longevity. I don't mind how you do it as long as you realize that Lebron beating MJ in pretty much all counting basic/advanced stats RS/playoffs could make some people lean for Lebron. And it's perfectly okay considering their peak/prime isn't that far off.

Well I choose not to act like those Warriors were this impossible to beat team because of how much they struggled against great defensive team. That alone makes me believe that the 96 Bulls would beat that team and any other from the modern era of the handful of seasons. Those Bulls faced plenty of great teams.

[Lepramaniac]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Honestly until last season I had Lebron competing head to head with MJ for GOAT, but not being able to crack the playoffs cemented him as 2nd of all time for me. Longevity is the only case you could make for him being n1, so in the end it would come down to preference of longevity vs peak, but IMO MJ's 6 titles in 6 for 6 finals is too much for Lebron to compete against. Also MJ never jumped ship while Lebron had to form a superteam in Miami for 2 of his 3 titles. The championship in Cleveland was very impressive though. And yes, Lebron probably had bad luck that he had to compete against the Warriors but hey, luck is also part of the equation.

[Jonny Blaze]

IF Lebron wins this year. He will and should be crowned, G.O.A.T.
I would add. Not only numbers of rings 4. But LED 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. Just unheard of and extremely difficult, rather than just staying with a single solitary team. MJ or KOBE could not win with 3 different teams

What a crock of s***. Taking one team from the complete gutter to two 3-peats (which EASILY could have been 8 in a row) is considerably more difficult than what LeBron would have done to win with three different teams (assuming he wins this year). The Miami Heat had already won a title with Wade before LeBron even got there; he hopped on with Bosh (another star) to form a championship team before they even stepped foot on the court together. There is virtually nothing impressive about that. This year's hypothetical Lakers win wherein he just walked onto a team with Anthony Davis (another Top 5 player) falls in the exact same category. You are talking as if there was some sort of struggle for him to accomplish those title wins. LeBron DID struggle with Cleveland...and he showed that he couldn't do it so he bounced. Michael Jordan got his ass kicked by the Celtics and Pistons and came back and overcame that. And here's the kicker: once Jordan hit his stride and won, NO ONE else could even sniff a title until he retired. He locked the whole ****ing league down; so much so that theres about a half-dozen all-time greats that never won a title because it was Jordan's league and they were there for the ride. Have you noticed that during LeBron's entire "reign", it really hasn't been that hard for other teams to steal titles from him? Even an average-ass Mavericks team somehow beat him. Dirk would never sniff a title playing during Jordan's reign, period.

Also, there is something to be said for complacency and guys getting soft after winning. The reason why dynasties are so rare is because its incredibly difficult for a team to maintain a championship drive for that many years without getting too full of themselves or content. Jordan did it twice, and the second run he literally gave time for the rest of the league to catch up in his absence and it still meant nothing: once he decided he was back, the titles were his.

an average ass Mavericks team?
Okay.......

The Miami Heat were not the only team the Mavs smoked

The average ass Mavericks team went 12-3 against LA Lakers, Miami Heat and OKC Thunder.

There is no title team in NBA history that defeated a more impressive list of superstars than the average ass 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge and James Harden all had their seasons ended by the "average ass" Mavericks.

The 2011 NBA title was the average ass Mavericks 11th straight season of winning 50 plus games. The Duncan Spurs, and Showtime Lakers are the only other teams in NBA history that ever won 50 games for 10 straight years.

Please explain to me what is average about winning 50 games for 10 straight years in a loaded Western Conference?
I would like to hear how the 2011 Mavs going 16-5 and winning the championship against incredible competition....somehow makes them an "average ass" team?

[JoeyLightYears]

Lebron is an all time great but his case or GOAT died last year when he failed to even make the playoffs.

By that token, no one is the GOAT except for maybe Bill Russel on a stacked team in an 8-team league.

LeBron has as good of a case as anyone. Even if you want to say that MJ had a better peak, his longevity wasn't anywhere near LeBron's (and MJ had pretty good longevity). There's a pretty good chance you'll never see a player put up the kind of consistent dominance over such a long period as LeBron. It is more than a once-in-a-generation thing. Kareem (another GOAT contender) is probably the closest but he wasn't as dominant at the same age. Every few years someone comes around and people think, ho hum he can be the GOAT (the current candidate is Luka), but let's see how things look a decade into their careers.

Honestly until last season I had Lebron competing head to head with MJ for GOAT, but not being able to crack the playoffs cemented him as 2nd of all time for me. Longevity is the only case you could make for him being n1, so in the end it would come down to preference of longevity vs peak, but IMO MJ's 6 titles in 6 for 6 finals is too much for Lebron to compete against. Also MJ never jumped ship while Lebron had to form a superteam in Miami for 2 of his 3 titles. The championship in Cleveland was very impressive though. And yes, Lebron probably had bad luck that he had to compete against the Warriors but hey, luck is also part of the equation.

Jumping ship is necessary to win titles in today's NBA unless you happen to be drafted to a very good team. It's not the same as it was in the 80s when MJ was drafted. A lot more players stayed on their teams their entire careers. MJ's title teams were stacked. This is indisputable (and also the fact that they won 55 games and were a game away from the ECF without MJ sort of helps the case).

Last year LeBron was injured and the team around him was pretty bad (it's still pretty bad outside of AD). It's like faulting prime Kobe for missing the playoffs in 2005 or MJ missing it as a rookie.

Also 6 titles by MJ is phenomenal-- among the best in NBA history-- but the 6/6 is a stupid comparison. MJ's legacy would be better if he went 6/9 even though people would use it against him. Why is losing in the Finals worse than losing in the previous rounds or missing the playoffs entirely? The Bulls lost three years in a row to the Pistons before finally breaking through.

[-MetA4-]

an average ass Mavericks team?
Okay.......

The Miami Heat were not the only team the Mavs smoked

The average ass Mavericks team went 12-3 against LA Lakers, Miami Heat and OKC Thunder.

There is no title team in NBA history that defeated a more impressive list of superstars than the average ass 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge and James Harden all had their seasons ended by the "average ass" Mavericks.

The 2011 NBA title was the average ass Mavericks 11th straight season of winning 50 plus games. The Duncan Spurs, and Showtime Lakers are the only other teams in NBA history that ever won 50 games for 10 straight years.

Please explain to me what is average about winning 50 games for 10 straight years in a loaded Western Conference?
I would like to hear how the 2011 Mavs going 16-5 and winning the championship against incredible competition....somehow makes them an "average ass" team?

You know what I mean by that, man.

All respect to that Mavs team and I'm not saying that they didn't earn their title (which they most certainly did), but a "GOAT" in his prime shouldn't lose to a team consisting of Dirk who was already past his peak, Jason Kidd who was about to retire, and Shawn Marion/Jason Terry/Tyson Chandler.

Lets get serious; who in their right mind thinks Jordan lets a team like that beat him in the finals?

[LAKESHOW]

Win his 4th Title this year. MJ falls behind Lebron as G.O.A.T. Just unheard of and extreme difficulty level of HIGHEST of HARD to win with 3 different teams. Kareem won with 2. Magic, Bird, MJ, Olajuwon, KD, Kobe, many more all won with 1 Team. But BRON will have won and Led 3 different teams. IF Bron wins this title 2020, MJ will step behind Bron as G.O.A.T.

[JoeyLightYears]

an average ass Mavericks team?
Okay.......

The Miami Heat were not the only team the Mavs smoked

The average ass Mavericks team went 12-3 against LA Lakers, Miami Heat and OKC Thunder.

There is no title team in NBA history that defeated a more impressive list of superstars than the average ass 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge and James Harden all had their seasons ended by the "average ass" Mavericks.

The 2011 NBA title was the average ass Mavericks 11th straight season of winning 50 plus games. The Duncan Spurs, and Showtime Lakers are the only other teams in NBA history that ever won 50 games for 10 straight years.

Please explain to me what is average about winning 50 games for 10 straight years in a loaded Western Conference?
I would like to hear how the 2011 Mavs going 16-5 and winning the championship against incredible competition....somehow makes them an "average ass" team?

You know what I mean by that, man.

All respect to that Mavs team and I'm not saying that they didn't earn their title (which they most certainly did), but a "GOAT" in his prime shouldn't lose to a team consisting of Dirk who was already past his peak, Jason Kidd who was about to retire, and Shawn Marion/Jason Terry/Tyson Chandler.

Lets get serious; who in their right mind thinks Jordan lets a team like that beat him in the finals?

That Mavs team is seriously underrated. Yes they had only one marquee player but they won just as many games as the Heat and got hot at the right time. Remember, they swept the defending champs with a still very good Kobe, and annihilated a team with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka-- who were all very young but still damn good. Jordan lost to teams worse than that in the playoffs-- eg the '87-88 Pistons.

[Jonny Blaze]

an average ass Mavericks team?
Okay.......

The Miami Heat were not the only team the Mavs smoked

The average ass Mavericks team went 12-3 against LA Lakers, Miami Heat and OKC Thunder.

There is no title team in NBA history that defeated a more impressive list of superstars than the average ass 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Russell Westbrook, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge and James Harden all had their seasons ended by the "average ass" Mavericks.

The 2011 NBA title was the average ass Mavericks 11th straight season of winning 50 plus games. The Duncan Spurs, and Showtime Lakers are the only other teams in NBA history that ever won 50 games for 10 straight years.

Please explain to me what is average about winning 50 games for 10 straight years in a loaded Western Conference?
I would like to hear how the 2011 Mavs going 16-5 and winning the championship against incredible competition....somehow makes them an "average ass" team?

You know what I mean by that, man.

All respect to that Mavs team and I'm not saying that they didn't earn their title (which they most certainly did), but a "GOAT" in his prime shouldn't lose to a team consisting of Dirk who was already past his peak, Jason Kidd who was about to retire, and Shawn Marion/Jason Terry/Tyson Chandler.

Lets get serious; who in their right mind thinks Jordan lets a team like that beat him in the finals?

See...this is what I don't like about the Lebron narrative.

There are people (ME!!!!) who said all along that the Mavericks were going to beat the Miami Heat because they were clearly a better basketball team.

The average ass 2011 Mavericks smoked all those teams without their second best player: Caron Butler.

The Mavs were bigger than the Heat. They were deeper than the Heat, and had much better shooters.
Once the Mavs swept the Lakers I knew they could beat any other team in the NBA.

Its kind of amazing to watch the Mavs go 8-1 against Los Angeles and OKC, and for people to still act like them beating Miami was some sort of huge deal.

If you believe the media narrative that Lebron is this unstoppable player (which I didn't), or that the 2011 Miami Heat were the 1996 Bulls, 86 Celtics or 83 Sixers (which they were clearly not)
then it might be a surprise that the "average ass" Mavericks were able to defeat such an "amazing" juggernaut.

I wasn't surprised at all because the 2011 Miami Heat were not that great of a team. They were starting Mike Bibby and Joel Anthony with only two decent bench players in Chalmers and Udonis Haslem.

The Heat never won a title until they got Ray Allen and Shane Battier.

I think a lot of teams of Eastern Conference teams expected the Mavs to wilt to Lebron without considering the Mavs had been competing against the Lakers, Spurs, Suns and a host of elite Western Conference teams for over 10 years.

If you can beat the Spurs or Lakers in a 7 game series....then you can beat anyone else in the NBA.

[LesGrossman]

This thread isn't toxic at all. Anyway all I'm gonna say is, enjoy the ride and don't take what he does for granted because one day he'll be gone and we'll wonder if we are ever gonna see someone like him.

His entire career has been like this. Ever since he stepped foot into the nba his career has been under a microscope being compared unfavorably to Jordan since day 1. I agree, once he stops playing people will miss him.

Yeah poor LeBron, being all business and then getting all that anger. He's basically a victim, right? And it has nothing to do with calling himself "the chosen one" (or even have it tattooed all over his back), and give himself the nick name "King James", or infamously talking about "those players below me" in a recent meeting. Just stop it.

But since you mention how dearly we will miss him, heres some of the "best of G.O.A.T" stuff, highlights of a career to remember once he is gone:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

(how to publicly throw your coach under the bus...this came shortly before a well established and successful coach was replaced by his finger puppet Ty Lue)

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

(karma's a bitch, huh? this came back to make them look REALLY stupid when Dirk single handedly beat them and gave Bron the worst defeat of his career, a legendary choke / disappearing job)

Absolutely look at this gem before making fun of Kawhi's supposedly choking:

Watch on YouTube

https://www.si.com/nba/2013/03/02/magic-johnson-offers-lebron-james-1-million-to-participate-in-dunk-contest (he's scared and admitted it)

...or if you dont have the time to enjoy all those highlights, the short version:

Watch on YouTube

...now bring on the "hater" , "your just obsessed" comments