Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron?

[DrCoach]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

[dakomish23]

Jordan has zero iconic finals wins. Jordan ducked all of the greats from his era. Got spanked by the Pistons, Bird, Magic; couldn't win until they all either got old or retired.

Lebron is clear tbh.

He beat the reigning NBA champs (Pistons) on the way to his first title.

[stormi]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

[stormi]

That meme game winner over a 90s TJ McConnell lmfao

Watch on YouTube

Only saw #10 and i'm sobbing irl

[BigBoss23]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

Did more in less time than lbj.

Jordans the better shooter and scorer.
Jordans more accomplished.
Jordans a much bigger winner.

And so on. Check mate

[JN61]

More individual and team accolades in less time played? Only thing LeBron got for him is length of career. But if you aren't maximizing it. What is the point in comparison to guys like Russell, Jordan and KAJ.

You know what is famous for Jordan or Russell era? They won every year. You know what's famous for LeBron era?everyone else feasted.

[JN61]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

I take 6 in 15 over 3 in 17.

[stormi]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

Did more in less time than lbj.

Jordans the better shooter and scorer.
Jordans more accomplished.
Jordans a much bigger winner.

And so on. Check mate

The "bigger winner" that couldn't leave round 1 without Pippen. People say Lebron couldn't win a championship without a star, Jordan could barely win playoff games.

Absolutely not a better shooter, he had no range and begged the league to bring the 3 point line closer.

Lebron beating the 73-9 Warriors down 3-1 >>> Jordan winning championships on part time Pepsi factory employees

Lebron beating everyone from his era: Steph, KD, Kawhi, Duncan

MJ never beating: Bird, Magic, Pistons until they were washed up

Lebron > 90s Tim Hardaway Jr with male pattern baldness

[Klayforspicy]

Imagine peak Jordan being guarded by JJ Barea and J Kidd, and they actually do a good job. Or Jordan taking whole seasons off on defense to the point were defensive seives like Kuzma have to get on his ass about it

[stormi]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

I take 6 in 15 over 3 in 17.

RIght and 11 in 13 >>>>>> 6 in 15.

Bill Russell is now the goat.

[lvckv]

Love LeBron but there's no argument against 6 chips, 6 finals MVPs, 5 MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 all-defense first teams.

No shame in being #2 of all time though, and his longevity is already ridiculous.

I think if he's still doing what he's doing now in 2-3 years (dominating the playoffs, reminding everyone who the best player in the league is, winning a few more chips, breaking more all-time records) then that longevity makes #1 a serious conversation.
I can't believe he will still be this good in 2-3 years but I also don't think you can rule it out, which is insane..

[stormi]

Imagine peak Jordan being guarded by JJ Barea and J Kidd, and they actually do a good job. Or Jordan taking whole seasons off on defense to the point were defensive seives like Kuzma have to get on his ass about it

Imagine Lebron being swept in round 1. Multiple times. That's Westbrook tier

[ItsMyPotPie]

Yes. Yes there is.

[Jonny Blaze]

I don't think Jordan was the better offensive player. He was the better scorer, but offence is also distributing, creating, controlling the pace, etc.. All of which I consider LeBron to be better at.

I can't wait for the **** of quotes I'm about to receive.

Offense is about putting the ball through the basket.

Arguing that a guy isn't as good offensively because he's too dominant a scorer and isn't "facilitating" enough is so weak. If he can put the ball through the basket himself more efficiently than the rest of the team, then why does he need to facilitate? Here's the fact of the matter: the Bulls won more with MJ just focusing on scoring than LeBron has won while being an "all around offensive player". You would have had an argument had MJ's style of offense been less effective in terms of wins/losses...but it wasn't. And the point of the matter is that his scoring-driven style of offense wasn't about hogging the ball or taking away from his teammates, so there was literally no negative to Jordan's offense.

"Versatility" has to be the most overrated trait. There comes a point wherein the guy who can just take the ball and put it in the basket himself is more valuable than the guy who tries to juggle scoring, distributing, controlling the pace, etc, etc. Especially in the playoffs/finals wherein each game is expected to go down to the wire. Given that both teams are likely to be similarly matched and the game goes down to the wire...what becomes more valuable? Jordan being able to assert his dominance as a scorer in the final ~4 minutes of the game, or LeBron's "superior passing"? Every coach in the league would take Jordan's superior scoring.

I've been on this board for 9 years and this is one of the very best posts I have ever seen.

I get so tired of hearing that the weaker scorer and playoff performer (KG) is better than the dominant scorer(Dirk) because he's more well rounded and puts up stats in different categories.

My retort to that has always been......who cares?

Who cares if you put up great stats in many different categories if it did not lead to wins in the post season.

This board has always had a bias against great scorers...whether it be Karl Malone, Dirk, Allen Iverson, or even Kobe.

Lebron is more well rounded than Jordan....but does that make him better than someone that was impossible to guard and could score from anywhere on the court?

Most of the greatest teams in NBA history were led by players that were dominant at scoring the ball.

[CBS7]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

6-9 or 3-13?

[Jonny Blaze]

Are you slandering the name of John Stockton in the OP? Stockton was a heck of a player and would still be dominant today. If you're going to pick two white guys from Jordan's era to prove it was worse maybe don't start with John Stockton.

John Stockton was never "dominant" even in his own era. He played in a system that facilitated easy assists and he played for a really long time and never got hurt.

Fun fact: At no point in John Stockton career did he ever finish in the top 7 of MVP voting. But people will rate him as one of the 25-30 best players of all time.

Stockton is really more in the 45-65 range as players. His stats are overrated because as you stated he played for a long time, and was never injured.

[DrCoach]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

And you cant read

6-0 in FINALS

[stormi]

Jordan and its not close.

Go look at the dream team if you need convincing

Or go look at his 6-0 record in finals

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

And you cant read

6-0 in FINALS

Yeah, because he couldn't get there until all his competition washed away and his GM had built an all star team.

1-9 PLAYOFF RECORD WITHOUT PIPPEN

[Jonny Blaze]

Are you slandering the name of John Stockton in the OP? Stockton was a heck of a player and would still be dominant today. If you're going to pick two white guys from Jordan's era to prove it was worse maybe don't start with John Stockton.

John Stockton was never "dominant" even in his own era. He played in a system that facilitated easy assists and he played for a really long time and never got hurt.

What? He made an all NBA team in 10 consecutive seasons, during that span he also made 5 All defense teams. He played in a system that made getting assists easy because Stockton mastered that system and he made it look easy. Also if he was just a system guy, how did he end up being the all time steal leader by a huge margin? From 87-97 he averaged 2.5 steals per game. To put that into perspective, you have to go back to 2009 to find a season where someone averaged more than 2.5 steals in a game. Stockton is an all time great for a reason.

John Stockton never finished in the top 7 of MVP voting.

Stockton was never a "dominant" player. Most of Stockton stats are due to playing with Karl Malone.

Take Malone off of the Jazz and no one would care anything about John Stockton.

[stormi]

So Lebron would be looked at in a better light if instead of dragging the 07 or 18 Cavs to the finals singlehandedly, he got swept in the first round instead to preserve his finals record?