Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron?

[Johnny Bball]

He couldn't choke because there was no expectation of him other to get dunked on by the Pistons until Pippen came around. That's all anyone knew him for.

I also have a beef when people compare MJ/LeBron that people only reference the same 6 years of MJs career and compare that to the entirety of LeBrons 17 year NBA career.

No mention of how MJ got beat multiple times over before Pippen showed up, no mention of how he didnt accomplish anything after he went to the Wizards. Just keep focusing on that prime cut 6 year stretch while comparing it to LeBron start to finish 17 years.

Yeah Jordan should have just left and forced his way and joined Bird and Michael etc., or magic worthy and Kareem and formed his own super team like James would have. Then he could move to the pistons. And then to the jazz. And just have won 15 titles by burning through their assets for instant gratification, like a virus.

[Kobe187]

Jordan is a better scorer than Lebron

Jordan is a better defender than Lebron

He’s better at shooting free throws as well

Jordan has better low post game than Lebron

Jordan has better mid range game than Lebron

Jordan has better killer instinct

Jordan is more clutch

Jordan has more championships without jumping to good teams or recruiting his buddies.

Jordan doesn’t flop.

Jordan doesn’t need maintenance days.

Jordan doesn’t quit due to cramps.

Jordan just brings it.

Only 2 things Lebron is better than Jordan at:
1. Flopping
2. Making excuses

Troll thread. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

(Lebron may make a case for #2 all time but it’s hard to place him above KAJ currently)

[gorz]

Lost all credibility when said "Kawhi could've three peated twice in MJ's shoes"

[chrisbanksy562]

Lost all credibility when said "Kawhi could've three peated twice in MJ's shoes"

Kawhi who blew a 3-1 lead to the Nuggies on a stacked team "deepest in the league"




Credibility issues along with other issues

[VanWest82]

Jordan is a better scorer than Lebron

Jordan is a better defender than Lebron

He’s better at shooting free throws as well

Jordan has better low post game than Lebron

Jordan has better mid range game than Lebron

Jordan has better killer instinct

Jordan is more clutch

Jordan has more championships without jumping to good teams or recruiting his buddies.

Jordan doesn’t flop.

Jordan doesn’t need maintenance days.

Jordan doesn’t quit due to cramps.

Jordan just brings it.

Only 2 things Lebron is better than Jordan at:
1. Flopping
2. Making excuses

Troll thread. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

(Lebron may make a case for #2 all time but it’s hard to place him above KAJ currently)

Lebron is clearly the better passer and rebounder, the fact that he's 6'9 and 270 and strong as hell means he can dominate games physically in ways that MJ just couldn't.

But I agree with you, and add that MJ's maniacal thirst for winning every single play puts him on a different level.

[510TWSS]

The Dallas series is indefensible in LeBron's case, MJ would never allowed his team, or himself to disappoint to that magnitude on that stage. It never entered your mind with MJ

[VanWest82]

The Dallas series is indefensible in LeBron's case, MJ would never allowed his team, or himself to disappoint to that magnitude on that stage. It never entered your mind with MJ

I think the 2010 Celtics is an even better comparison because we can look at how young MJ lost to the late 80s Pistons. Lebron quit in games 5 & 6 in that series, and Rondo legit outplayed him. You can't point to a series despite MJ being crushed physically where he gave up like that. He had some bad games but no one broke his spirit. KG broke Lebron's spirit and so did that Mavs team.

[kuclas]

I hate these arguments, and don't understand the need for all time rankings because depending on critieria used, you'd have different results.

However, I think LeBron is more skilled, but Jordan had more competitiveness, and dug deeper and his refuse to lose/will to win in big games, and clutch play in just the biggest of moments, was at a much higher level. It was really uncanny how he'd do it.

He also never kept teaming up with ever top 10 players while playing. Pippen was great, but there were a lot of big stars back then.

What do you consider a “skill”

Jump shooting is a skill. Jordan is a better jump shooter. Lebron is a below average free throw shooter. That is a skill. Jordan was 83-85% free throw shooter. Jordan post ups. Way more moves than Lebron who bullies over players. Jordan fade away up and under etc low post.

Jordan played better defense for longer time as well.

Now tell me what type of skill Lebron has over Jordan besides passing? I guess rebounding? Since he’s got 2 inches over Jordan.

So what other skills does Lebron have that’s better than Jordan?

[Bdc17]

The Dallas series is indefensible in LeBron's case, MJ would never allowed his team, or himself to disappoint to that magnitude on that stage. It never entered your mind with MJ

I think the 2010 Celtics is an even better comparison because we can look at how young MJ lost to the late 80s Pistons. Lebron quit in games 6 & 7 in that series, and Rondo legit outplayed him. You can't point to a series despite MJ being crushed physically where he gave up like that. He had some bad games but no one broke his spirit. KG broke Lebron's spirit and so did that Mavs team.

Jordan kept coming back harder until he got past the Pistons and then never looked back. He didn't jump ship and build a super team to get past his biggest rival.

You can argue stats all day but to me the biggest different is Jordan was the biggest alpha I've ever seen in team sports. Lebron is a generational talent but he just doesn't have that same mentality. During both 3 peat's it didn't matter who the Bulls were against, Jordan would find a way to beat them. 6-0 with 6 finals MVP's is the differentiator.

[JN61]

Jordan stans throw around 6-0 like it implies he never lost. He played like 15 damn season lmfaoooooo

I take 6 in 15 over 3 in 17.

RIght and 11 in 13 >>>>>> 6 in 15.

Bill Russell is now the goat.

He at least has an argument.

[sunsbg]

Lebron stans using Pippen as an argument against MJ is laughable. Was Pippen even considered a top 5 player during the title runs ? Maybe not even top 10 for most of those. I remember him saying when he won All-Star MVP during '94 that people though he won't make the game without MJ. So Lebron was not able to convince a top 5 player join him in Cleveland and had to go ring chase all this time ? What a loser.

[VanWest82]

The Dallas series is indefensible in LeBron's case, MJ would never allowed his team, or himself to disappoint to that magnitude on that stage. It never entered your mind with MJ

I think the 2010 Celtics is an even better comparison because we can look at how young MJ lost to the late 80s Pistons. Lebron quit in games 6 & 7 in that series, and Rondo legit outplayed him. You can't point to a series despite MJ being crushed physically where he gave up like that. He had some bad games but no one broke his spirit. KG broke Lebron's spirit and so did that Mavs team.

Jordan kept coming back harder until he got past the Pistons and then never looked back. He didn't jump ship and build a super team to get past his biggest rival.

You can argue stats all day but to me the biggest different is Jordan was the biggest alpha I've ever seen in team sports. Lebron is a generational talent but he just doesn't have that same mentality. During both 3 peat's it didn't matter who the Bulls were against, Jordan would find a way to beat them. 6-0 with 6 finals MVP's is the differentiator.

I do think Lebron got to the same place MJ did at certain times in his career. He's even surpassed Mike in some ways but he's also had a few more high profile meltdowns in big spots. Jordan never really had that. Even in 95 when he came back out of shape he still scared the crap out of a superior Magic team.

[Huffman]

Could you see Jordan acting like this against the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons or Pat Riley's Knicks?

Watch on YouTube

I know the officiating is different today but Lebron is such a diva.

I don't see the longevity argument in favor of Lebron. As physically imposing as Lebron is, he wouldn't be able to handle the physicality that Jordan did and maintained his level of play. Players last longer today because the game is more about speed and finesse which were Jordan true strengths. Jordan made himself stronger to endure the punishment that existed in the 90's NBA. Jordan also came back at 40 to play a couple more years and he was still better than most players half his age.

The Pippen argument is BS too. Pippen became the player he was by playing with Jordan and against him in practice every day.

Name one guy that became a star playing with Lebron. Davis, Kyrie, and Wade were already stars. Bosh and Love actually regressed as players.

Basically, Lebron is a great player that had to stack his team and set franchises back to win titles. He did it twice in Cleveland and once to Miami. He'll do the same to the Lakers too.

[The4thHorseman]

The Dallas series is indefensible in LeBron's case, MJ would never allowed his team, or himself to disappoint to that magnitude on that stage. It never entered your mind with MJ

I think the 2010 Celtics is an even better comparison because we can look at how young MJ lost to the late 80s Pistons. Lebron quit in games 6 & 7 in that series, and Rondo legit outplayed him. You can't point to a series despite MJ being crushed physically where he gave up like that. He had some bad games but no one broke his spirit. KG broke Lebron's spirit and so did that Mavs team.

That 2010 series didn't go 7gms and in game 6, James put up 27-19-10. Are those stats of someone who quit on their team in a must win game?

In 1989 against the Pistons, the Bulls took a 2-1 series lead. Detroit tied it in game 4 and game 5 was the biggest game to date in Bulls franchise history. A win there puts them 1 win from making the Finals for the first time in franchise history. What's MJ do, he's totally passive and takes 8 total FGA for the game after avg. like 23fga for the first 4gms. Not sure why he was disinterested in the biggest NBA game of his career but the Bulls were only down by 1pt at the end of the 3rd quarter and he just didn't care. It was almost as if he secretly bet on Detroit. Game 6 he was back to his normal self and they still lost.

[sunsbg]

Could you see Jordan acting like this against the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons or Pat Riley's Knicks?

Watch on YouTube

I know the officiating is different today but Lebron is such a diva.

I don't see the longevity argument in favor of Lebron. As physically imposing as Lebron is, he wouldn't be able to handle the physicality that Jordan did and maintained his level of play. Players last longer today because the game is more about speed and finesse which were Jordan true strengths. Jordan made himself stronger to endure the punishment that existed in the 90's NBA. Jordan also came back at 40 to play a couple more years and he was still better than most players half his age.

The Pippen argument is BS too. Pippen became the player he was by playing with Jordan and against him in practice every day.

Name one guy that became a star playing with Lebron. Davis, Kyrie, and Wade were already stars. Bosh and Love actually regressed as players.

Basically, Lebron is a great player that had to stack his team and set franchises back to win titles. He did it twice in Cleveland and once to Miami. He'll do the same to the Lakers too.

+1000

Also this video is a good laugh. Says everything about current stars.

[The4thHorseman]

Lebron stans using Pippen as an argument against MJ is laughable. Was Pippen even considered a top 5 player during the title runs ? Maybe not even top 10 for most of those. I remember him saying when he won All-Star MVP during '94 that people though he won't make the game without MJ. So Lebron was not able to convince a top 5 player join him in Cleveland and had to go ring chase all this time ? What a loser.

Pippen was All-NBA on both sides of the ball for every title run except in 1991 when he was All-Defensive that year. In the 1991 Finals he outscored Magic even though Pip was second option on offense and played smothering defense.

Better question is, did MJ ever face an opposing 2nd option that was a better all around player than Pippen??

[VanWest82]

That 2010 series didn't go 7gms and in game 6, James put up 27-19-10. Are those stats of someone who quit on their team in a must win game?

You're right it was games 5 & 6. My bad. My answer to this rebuttal is always the same. Go back and watch. Look at his body language. If you can't see what I'm talking about I don't know what to tell you.

In 1989 against the Pistons, the Bulls took a 2-1 series lead. Detroit tied it in game 4 and game 5 was the biggest game to date in Bulls franchise history. A win there puts them 1 win from making the Finals for the first time in franchise. What's MJ do, he's totally passive and takes 8 total FGA for the game after avg. like 23fga for the first 4gms. Not sure why he was disinterested in the biggest NBA game of his career but the Bulls were only down by 1pt at the end of the 3rd quarter and he just didn't care. It was almost as if he secretly bet on Detroit. Game 6 he was back to his normal self and they still lost.

Clearly you didn't watch that game either. Here let me help you.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-06-01-8902060030-story.html#:~:text=The%20Pistons%20lead%20the%20best,close%20as%20anyone%20ever%20gets.

The Pistons did it in perhaps the most implausible way possible: They shut out Michael Jordan, or as close as anyone ever gets. Jordan, the three-time league scoring champion, was held to a season-low eight shots and to just 18 points.

''We had the shots we needed to win the ballgame,'' Jordan said. ''We just didn`t hit them. They were running two and three guys at me, so I was looking do get the ball to the open man. You don`t want to force things.

''And then, at the end, I didn`t have the ball in the situation where I could have attacked. You can`t force the issue. You`ve got to take what the defense gives you.''

So in other words Pistons double and triple teamed him the entire game and all the other Bulls missed open shots. Find me the evidence that shows Jordan with **** body language giving up prior to the buzzer.

[The4thHorseman]

Could you see Jordan acting like this against the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons or Pat Riley's Knicks?

Watch on YouTube

I know the officiating is different today but Lebron is such a diva.

I don't see the longevity argument in favor of Lebron. As physically imposing as Lebron is, he wouldn't be able to handle the physicality that Jordan did and maintained his level of play. Players last longer today because the game is more about speed and finesse which were Jordan true strengths. Jordan made himself stronger to endure the punishment that existed in the 90's NBA. Jordan also came back at 40 to play a couple more years and he was still better than most players half his age.

The Pippen argument is BS too. Pippen became the player he was by playing with Jordan and against him in practice every day.

Name one guy that became a star playing with Lebron. Davis, Kyrie, and Wade were already stars. Bosh and Love actually regressed as players.

Basically, Lebron is a great player that had to stack his team and set franchises back to win titles. He did it twice in Cleveland and once to Miami. He'll do the same to the Lakers too.

Can you show us some of the many examples of MJ taking all these vicious hits and hardcore physicality that he was on the receiving end of that LeBron wouldn't be able to handle like you said?

Thanks.

So since Pippen turned out to be so good because of MJ, why didn't MJ make more teammates into Pippen type players who became All-NBA players on both sides of the court? Why not turn Brad Sellers or Craig Hodges into great players like MJ allegedly did for Pippen?

[sunsbg]

Lebron stans using Pippen as an argument against MJ is laughable. Was Pippen even considered a top 5 player during the title runs ? Maybe not even top 10 for most of those. I remember him saying when he won All-Star MVP during '94 that people though he won't make the game without MJ. So Lebron was not able to convince a top 5 player join him in Cleveland and had to go ring chase all this time ? What a loser.

Pippen was All-NBA on both sides of the ball for every title run except in 1991 when he was All-Defensive that year. In the 1991 Finals he outscored Magic even though Pip was second option on offense and played smothering defense.

Better question is, did MJ ever face an opposing 2nd option that was a better all around player than Pippen??

Him being All-NBA probably still had something to do with playing with MJ and winning. Just looking at stats shows how much better D was played at the time, because offensively he was nothing special during 93' when they beat my Suns. Just comparing him with someone like Oubre he was better at assists and nothing else though being 27 at the time while I'm comparing with a 24yo KO.

[LivingLegend]

He couldn't choke because there was no expectation of him other to get dunked on by the Pistons until Pippen came around. That's all anyone knew him for.

I also have a beef when people compare MJ/LeBron that people only reference the same 6 years of MJs career and compare that to the entirety of LeBrons 17 year NBA career.

No mention of how MJ got beat multiple times over before Pippen showed up, no mention of how he didnt accomplish anything after he went to the Wizards. Just keep focusing on that prime cut 6 year stretch while comparing it to LeBron start to finish 17 years.

Yeah Jordan should have just left and forced his way and joined Bird and Michael etc., or magic worthy and Kareem and formed his own super team like James would have. Then he could move to the pistons. And then to the jazz. And just have won 15 titles by burning through their assets for instant gratification, like a virus.

Jordan didnt HAVE to leave, he was born into the most stacked team of the decade. Jordan wasnt playing with Boobie Gibson and Donyell Marshall. He was like Steph Curry on the Warriors. You dont have to leave to go play on a good team when all the talent comes to you