Let's start the rebuild!

[Crymson]

Im just going to have fun with a few of these ideas cause the offseason is taking forever.

Your plan sounds like a slam-dunk path to creating yet another mediocre, cap-locked roster.

This roster is going to be nothing more than mediocre for awhile anyway. I will take two promising rookies and actual talented free agents over what we’ve been seeing. This isnt going to be an overnight fix and this definitely isnt a galloway and leuer situation.

The idea is to avoid that exact scenario: being mediocre. Either be bad or good. The former will be accomplished by not making bad free-agency signings for a team that shouldn't be aiming to win, and will allow the team to better build through the draft. The latter will hopefully be accomplished through the former.

Those "actual talented free agents" will win the Pistons pointless games and cost them both draft position and cap space that they could instead use to absorb bad contracts in exchange for assets, or simply keep open for the sake of flexibility.

You're right that there's no quick fix. It's best for the Pistons to not win many games for a couple of seasons. Adding veterans who can contribute runs precisely counter to that aim.

For what it's worth, neither Grant nor Ibaka would sign in Detroit for those salaries to begin with.

Ibaka is a 2 year deal to establish culture more than anything

The notion of establishing a culture is, I'm sorry to say, completely obsolete. You aren't going to see Detroit teams winning on the work-hard-and-play-tough-defense culture that won the Pistons three championships. Those days are dead. The sooner Pistons fans accept that, the better off they'll be.

[ByeByeDre]

Im just going to have fun with a few of these ideas cause the offseason is taking forever. Correct any cap related numbers or moves if necessary, im no capologist and I may post 2 or 3 variations of these posts without going overboard with trade ideas I.E. Trading Blake. I'll keep existing player trades at a minimum but to begin I will trade Luke to Boston for #14. I think he's more along the Philly 21st or Boston 26 pick range but since people think #14 isn't worth moving for Luke at all, I'll consider this a middle ground.

Pistons will choose Patton over Thon so i am not including him in the player salaries as well:

2020-2021 Salary ($79m)
Blake -36.8
Snell - $12.1
Rose - $7.6
Sekou - $3.5
Bruce - $1.6
Svi - $1.6
Khyri - $1.6
Patton - $1.7
First Rounder #7 - $6
First Rounder #14 - $3.5?
King - 1.5
Bone - 1.5

Projected ’21 Salary Cap - $109

First round picks :
Vassell #7
Cole Anthony/RJ Hampton #14

- Get an immediate boost in modern guard play this team hasn't seen in over a decade with these 2 picks. I'm a Killian Hayes guy but choosing a 3 and D athletic wing to go with an athletic pg with high floor general/leadership potential seems like a great buy.

Being realistic about how the league works and recent Pistons moves, I would expect players that have a connection with Weaver and Tellem to be targets, specifically players that are represented by Arns son and BJ Armstrong, who is incredibly tight with weaver and Tellem. A short list of those players that i know of would be Jerami Grant, Josh Jackson, Mario Hezonja, & Serge Ibaka.

Pistons Free Agents - $30m to Spend
Wood - 3yrs 32m (y1 10m y2 11m y3 11m) - Bird rights & first year wont go against the cap at this number
Jerami Grant - 4 yrs 40m - High energy high IQ player that can play the 3 and 4 Detroit hasn't had in a long time. Has to decline his Player option but reading sites looks like he's heading that way. (Weaver connection)
Serge Ibaka - 2 yrs 25m - An accomplished veteran has to be part of any legitimate rebuild (or restore) Serge may search for a better team but I think he will add to the toughness and defensive identity they need to begin to re establish. (Weaver connection)

Wood/Ibaka/Patton
Blake/Grant
Sekou/Snell/King
Brown/Vassell/Svi
Rose/(Pick14)/Thomas/Bone

2021 cap - 101.5 spent out of 109m

The lineup can change as Grant could start at the 3 with Sekou being backup 4. I also focused on the Bigs for free agency as we dont know how long Blake will stay healthy or how long he will be on the team. I also would like to see Detroit move Rose for a 2021 first and see whats the market for snell at the deadline or just let his money roll off.

Fan generated trades tend to be unrealistic as fans tend to overvalue the players of the team they root for so i try to avoid making those type of posts. I'll just say for the purpose of a rebuild (restore) I would prefer to move away from Luke and grab another first rd pick. Thats not popular here but I don't see Luke being a longterm solution or being better than the 7th-9th man range on a winning team with an established culture and roles. I can't envision Luke being a starting SG for any winning team.

“With the 10th pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, the Detroit Pistons select......”

[Pharaoh]

Your plan sounds like a slam-dunk path to creating yet another mediocre, cap-locked roster.

This roster is going to be nothing more than mediocre for awhile anyway. I will take two promising rookies and actual talented free agents over what we’ve been seeing. This isnt going to be an overnight fix and this definitely isnt a galloway and leuer situation.

The idea is to avoid that exact scenario: being mediocre. Either be bad or good. The former will be accomplished by not making bad free-agency signings for a team that shouldn't be aiming to win, and will allow the team to better build through the draft. The latter will hopefully be accomplished through the former.

Those "actual talented free agents" will win the Pistons pointless games and cost them both draft position and cap space that they could instead use to absorb bad contracts in exchange for assets, or simply keep open for the sake of flexibility.

You're right that there's no quick fix. It's best for the Pistons to not win many games for a couple of seasons. Adding veterans who can contribute runs precisely counter to that aim.

For what it's worth, neither Grant nor Ibaka would sign in Detroit for those salaries to begin with.

Ibaka is a 2 year deal to establish culture more than anything

The notion of establishing a culture is, I'm sorry to say, completely obsolete. You aren't going to see Detroit teams winning on the work-hard-and-play-tough-defense culture that won the Pistons three championships. Those days are dead. The sooner Pistons fans accept that, the better off they'll be.

Establishing a culture on the team doesn't have to mean "defense first, Going to Work, Bad Boys Pistons" though.

The teams that are generally used as the benchmark for "culture" are the Spurs and the Heat.

From the top down the standard is set and met or you get moved. It's not defense first.

I'm of the opinion that Griffin & Rose don't set the standard in practice or in the locker room every day.

I'm also of the opinion that this organisation hasn't had anyone really leading the charge in over a decade.

Your best players need to be the ones that set the standard - we need gym rats here

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[edmunder_prc]

Im just going to have fun with a few of these ideas cause the offseason is taking forever.

Your plan sounds like a slam-dunk path to creating yet another mediocre, cap-locked roster.

Agree. Trading Luke for #14 is a great first step. Followed by trading Rose for another first rounder.

Trade Snell and look for something like the Svi trade. Get a second round pick and hopefully someone that has potential on a team friendly contract.

Now the team has cap space to take back a bad contract, along with another first round pick. If the Pistons are lucky that player looks good and can be traded at the deadline of the last year, for a second round pick.

Always be closing Pistons.

[Billl]

This roster is going to be nothing more than mediocre for awhile anyway. I will take two promising rookies and actual talented free agents over what we’ve been seeing. This isnt going to be an overnight fix and this definitely isnt a galloway and leuer situation.

The idea is to avoid that exact scenario: being mediocre. Either be bad or good. The former will be accomplished by not making bad free-agency signings for a team that shouldn't be aiming to win, and will allow the team to better build through the draft. The latter will hopefully be accomplished through the former.

Those "actual talented free agents" will win the Pistons pointless games and cost them both draft position and cap space that they could instead use to absorb bad contracts in exchange for assets, or simply keep open for the sake of flexibility.

You're right that there's no quick fix. It's best for the Pistons to not win many games for a couple of seasons. Adding veterans who can contribute runs precisely counter to that aim.

For what it's worth, neither Grant nor Ibaka would sign in Detroit for those salaries to begin with.

Ibaka is a 2 year deal to establish culture more than anything

The notion of establishing a culture is, I'm sorry to say, completely obsolete. You aren't going to see Detroit teams winning on the work-hard-and-play-tough-defense culture that won the Pistons three championships. Those days are dead. The sooner Pistons fans accept that, the better off they'll be.

Establishing a culture on the team doesn't have to mean "defense first, Going to Work, Bad Boys Pistons" though.

The teams that are generally used as the benchmark for "culture" are the Spurs and the Heat.

From the top down the standard is set and met or you get moved. It's not defense first.

I'm of the opinion that Griffin & Rose don't set the standard in practice or in the locker room every day.

I'm also of the opinion that this organisation hasn't had anyone really leading the charge in over a decade.

Your best players need to be the ones that set the standard - we need gym rats here

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

The problem is that we don't have anyone on the roster who is good enough to be the best player on a contending team. We turned the keys over to guys like RJ and Dre. They could have been the biggest gym rats in the world, but they just weren't talented enough to build around. We've spent over a decade pushing guys into roles that they just aren't capable of filling just because they were the closest thing we had on the roster.

[chrbal]

Im just going to have fun with a few of these ideas cause the offseason is taking forever. Correct any cap related numbers or moves if necessary, im no capologist and I may post 2 or 3 variations of these posts without going overboard with trade ideas I.E. Trading Blake. I'll keep existing player trades at a minimum but to begin I will trade Luke to Boston for #14. I think he's more along the Philly 21st or Boston 26 pick range but since people think #14 isn't worth moving for Luke at all, I'll consider this a middle ground.

Pistons will choose Patton over Thon so i am not including him in the player salaries as well:

2020-2021 Salary ($79m)
Blake -36.8
Snell - $12.1
Rose - $7.6
Sekou - $3.5
Bruce - $1.6
Svi - $1.6
Khyri - $1.6
Patton - $1.7
First Rounder #7 - $6
First Rounder #14 - $3.5?
King - 1.5
Bone - 1.5

Projected ’21 Salary Cap - $109

First round picks :
Vassell #7
Cole Anthony/RJ Hampton #14

- Get an immediate boost in modern guard play this team hasn't seen in over a decade with these 2 picks. I'm a Killian Hayes guy but choosing a 3 and D athletic wing to go with an athletic pg with high floor general/leadership potential seems like a great buy.

Being realistic about how the league works and recent Pistons moves, I would expect players that have a connection with Weaver and Tellem to be targets, specifically players that are represented by Arns son and BJ Armstrong, who is incredibly tight with weaver and Tellem. A short list of those players that i know of would be Jerami Grant, Josh Jackson, Mario Hezonja, & Serge Ibaka.

Pistons Free Agents - $30m to Spend
Wood - 3yrs 32m (y1 10m y2 11m y3 11m) - Bird rights & first year wont go against the cap at this number
Jerami Grant - 4 yrs 40m - High energy high IQ player that can play the 3 and 4 Detroit hasn't had in a long time. Has to decline his Player option but reading sites looks like he's heading that way. (Weaver connection)
Serge Ibaka - 2 yrs 25m - An accomplished veteran has to be part of any legitimate rebuild (or restore) Serge may search for a better team but I think he will add to the toughness and defensive identity they need to begin to re establish. (Weaver connection)

Wood/Ibaka/Patton
Blake/Grant
Sekou/Snell/King
Brown/Vassell/Svi
Rose/(Pick14)/Thomas/Bone

2021 cap - 101.5 spent out of 109m

The lineup can change as Grant could start at the 3 with Sekou being backup 4. I also focused on the Bigs for free agency as we dont know how long Blake will stay healthy or how long he will be on the team. I also would like to see Detroit move Rose for a 2021 first and see whats the market for snell at the deadline or just let his money roll off.

Fan generated trades tend to be unrealistic as fans tend to overvalue the players of the team they root for so i try to avoid making those type of posts. I'll just say for the purpose of a rebuild (restore) I would prefer to move away from Luke and grab another first rd pick. Thats not popular here but I don't see Luke being a longterm solution or being better than the 7th-9th man range on a winning team with an established culture and roles. I can't envision Luke being a starting SG for any winning team.

Solid overall. I don’t think it’s a good point to sign grant and Ibaka. I feel like Ibaka gets at least a similar offer from a better team.

[Pharaoh]

The idea is to avoid that exact scenario: being mediocre. Either be bad or good. The former will be accomplished by not making bad free-agency signings for a team that shouldn't be aiming to win, and will allow the team to better build through the draft. The latter will hopefully be accomplished through the former.

Those "actual talented free agents" will win the Pistons pointless games and cost them both draft position and cap space that they could instead use to absorb bad contracts in exchange for assets, or simply keep open for the sake of flexibility.

You're right that there's no quick fix. It's best for the Pistons to not win many games for a couple of seasons. Adding veterans who can contribute runs precisely counter to that aim.

For what it's worth, neither Grant nor Ibaka would sign in Detroit for those salaries to begin with.



The notion of establishing a culture is, I'm sorry to say, completely obsolete. You aren't going to see Detroit teams winning on the work-hard-and-play-tough-defense culture that won the Pistons three championships. Those days are dead. The sooner Pistons fans accept that, the better off they'll be.

Establishing a culture on the team doesn't have to mean "defense first, Going to Work, Bad Boys Pistons" though.

The teams that are generally used as the benchmark for "culture" are the Spurs and the Heat.

From the top down the standard is set and met or you get moved. It's not defense first.

I'm of the opinion that Griffin & Rose don't set the standard in practice or in the locker room every day.

I'm also of the opinion that this organisation hasn't had anyone really leading the charge in over a decade.

Your best players need to be the ones that set the standard - we need gym rats here

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

The problem is that we don't have anyone on the roster who is good enough to be the best player on a contending team. We turned the keys over to guys like RJ and Dre. They could have been the biggest gym rats in the world, but they just weren't talented enough to build around. We've spent over a decade pushing guys into roles that they just aren't capable of filling just because they were the closest thing we had on the roster.

But Dre and Reggie weren't gym rats from all reports.

Reggie had delusions that he could be like Harden if only he got to run his own team and not be stuck behind Westbrook.

Dre was never motivated to be the best player in the game!

The last guys I can think of who were gym rats, got minutes and were our best players all played on the Going to Work teams.

That's not a surprise!

Handing the keys to guys who are not motivated or actually not willing to work is what has led us to here in the first place.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Billl]

Establishing a culture on the team doesn't have to mean "defense first, Going to Work, Bad Boys Pistons" though.

The teams that are generally used as the benchmark for "culture" are the Spurs and the Heat.

From the top down the standard is set and met or you get moved. It's not defense first.

I'm of the opinion that Griffin & Rose don't set the standard in practice or in the locker room every day.

I'm also of the opinion that this organisation hasn't had anyone really leading the charge in over a decade.

Your best players need to be the ones that set the standard - we need gym rats here

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

The problem is that we don't have anyone on the roster who is good enough to be the best player on a contending team. We turned the keys over to guys like RJ and Dre. They could have been the biggest gym rats in the world, but they just weren't talented enough to build around. We've spent over a decade pushing guys into roles that they just aren't capable of filling just because they were the closest thing we had on the roster.

But Dre and Reggie weren't gym rats from all reports.

Reggie had delusions that he could be like Harden if only he got to run his own team and not be stuck behind Westbrook.

Dre was never motivated to be the best player in the game!

The last guys I can think of who were gym rats, got minutes and were our best players all played on the Going to Work teams.

That's not a surprise!

Handing the keys to guys who are not motivated or actually not willing to work is what has led us to here in the first place.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

Not making excuses for RJ and Dre's effort, but no amount of effort was going to make them legit NBA stars.

[Pharaoh]

The problem is that we don't have anyone on the roster who is good enough to be the best player on a contending team. We turned the keys over to guys like RJ and Dre. They could have been the biggest gym rats in the world, but they just weren't talented enough to build around. We've spent over a decade pushing guys into roles that they just aren't capable of filling just because they were the closest thing we had on the roster.

But Dre and Reggie weren't gym rats from all reports.

Reggie had delusions that he could be like Harden if only he got to run his own team and not be stuck behind Westbrook.

Dre was never motivated to be the best player in the game!

The last guys I can think of who were gym rats, got minutes and were our best players all played on the Going to Work teams.

That's not a surprise!

Handing the keys to guys who are not motivated or actually not willing to work is what has led us to here in the first place.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

Not making excuses for RJ and Dre's effort, but no amount of effort was going to make them legit NBA stars.

Exactly - yet we gave them the keys to the kingdom anyway.

Can't have guys like that as your leaders cause it's not going to produce any results

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[ByeByeDre]

Here’s a very possible trade:

Snell for a crappy player with a two year contract and a first round pick.

Very similar to when we traded Leuer for a first round pick and...... Snell

[flow]

Establishing a culture on the team doesn't have to mean "defense first, Going to Work, Bad Boys Pistons" though.

The teams that are generally used as the benchmark for "culture" are the Spurs and the Heat.

From the top down the standard is set and met or you get moved. It's not defense first.

I'm of the opinion that Griffin & Rose don't set the standard in practice or in the locker room every day.

I'm also of the opinion that this organisation hasn't had anyone really leading the charge in over a decade.

Your best players need to be the ones that set the standard - we need gym rats here

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

The problem is that we don't have anyone on the roster who is good enough to be the best player on a contending team. We turned the keys over to guys like RJ and Dre. They could have been the biggest gym rats in the world, but they just weren't talented enough to build around. We've spent over a decade pushing guys into roles that they just aren't capable of filling just because they were the closest thing we had on the roster.

But Dre and Reggie weren't gym rats from all reports.

Reggie had delusions that he could be like Harden if only he got to run his own team and not be stuck behind Westbrook.

Dre was never motivated to be the best player in the game!

The last guys I can think of who were gym rats, got minutes and were our best players all played on the Going to Work teams.

That's not a surprise!

Handing the keys to guys who are not motivated or actually not willing to work is what has led us to here in the first place.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

Half of this board had the same delusion.

.

[Crymson]

Here’s a very possible trade:

Snell for a crappy player with a two year contract and a first round pick.

Very similar to when we traded Leuer for a first round pick and...... Snell

That trade was an unusual case: Lopez was in line for a hefty raise and the Bucks did not hold his Bird rights, so they needed to clear cap space to retain him. Hence they traded Snell's two-year deal for Leuer's one-year contract, and stretched the latter prior to the outset of free agency.

The trade you've laid out is not likely to transpire.

[ByeByeDre]

Here’s a very possible trade:

Snell for a crappy player with a two year contract and a first round pick.

Very similar to when we traded Leuer for a first round pick and...... Snell

That trade was an unusual case: Lopez was in line for a hefty raise and the Bucks did not hold his Bird rights, so they needed to clear cap space to retain him. Hence they traded Snell's two-year deal for Leuer's one-year contract, and stretched the latter prior to the outset of free agency.

The trade you've laid out is not likely to transpire.

There are plenty of teams looking to dump crappy contracts for the likes of Snell. He’s one of the easier ones......

[Crymson]

Here’s a very possible trade:

Snell for a crappy player with a two year contract and a first round pick.

Very similar to when we traded Leuer for a first round pick and...... Snell

That trade was an unusual case: Lopez was in line for a hefty raise and the Bucks did not hold his Bird rights, so they needed to clear cap space to retain him. Hence they traded Snell's two-year deal for Leuer's one-year contract, and stretched the latter prior to the outset of free agency.

The trade you've laid out is not likely to transpire.

There are plenty of teams looking to dump crappy contracts for the likes of Snell. He’s one of the easier ones......

You haven't read what I wrote. The Leuer trade was uncommon.

[ByeByeDre]

That trade was an unusual case: Lopez was in line for a hefty raise and the Bucks did not hold his Bird rights, so they needed to clear cap space to retain him. Hence they traded Snell's two-year deal for Leuer's one-year contract, and stretched the latter prior to the outset of free agency.

The trade you've laid out is not likely to transpire.

There are plenty of teams looking to dump crappy contracts for the likes of Snell. He’s one of the easier ones......

You haven't read what I wrote. The Leuer trade was uncommon.

Thanks for the excellent analysis!

[Pharaoh]

There are plenty of teams looking to dump crappy contracts for the likes of Snell. He’s one of the easier ones......

You haven't read what I wrote. The Leuer trade was uncommon.

Thanks for the excellent analysis!

I think any team looking to clear a additional 12 mil in cap space for 2021 will look at Snell.

That combined with a potential salary cap freeze could make him a attractive option for so many teams.

A 2 year deal + a pick for Snell is the obvious trade

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Crymson]

You haven't read what I wrote. The Leuer trade was uncommon.

Thanks for the excellent analysis!

I think any team looking to clear a additional 12 mil in cap space for 2021 will look at Snell.

That combined with a potential salary cap freeze could make him a attractive option for so many teams.

A 2 year deal + a pick for Snell is the obvious trade

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

How often do you see such trades made in the offseason? The answer is hardly ever. The Bucks made that trade prior to free agency because they needed the cap space immediately.

Teams looking to clear space for 2021 will wait until the deadline and evaluate the options at that time.

[chrbal]

Thanks for the excellent analysis!

I think any team looking to clear a additional 12 mil in cap space for 2021 will look at Snell.

That combined with a potential salary cap freeze could make him a attractive option for so many teams.

A 2 year deal + a pick for Snell is the obvious trade

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

How often do you see such trades made in the offseason? The answer is hardly ever. The Bucks made that trade prior to free agency because they needed the cap space immediately.

Teams looking to clear space for 2021 will wait until the deadline and evaluate the options at that time.

I’d say around once per offseason. I think post covid finances will make that number rise.

[Crymson]

I’d say around once per offseason. I think post covid finances will make that number rise.

Incorrect. Consider doing your due research. Additionally, offseason cap dumps that feature remarkable draft compensation almost invariably see teams dump substantial sums of salary for little or none in return. Over the past five offseasons, the Leuer trade was the single exception to this rule.

Teams seeking cap relief for the 2021 offseason will see to that at the deadline or prior to the outset of that free-agency period. They have no incentive to do so immediately, as situations are subject to change.

[bstein14]

Lots of teams are going to lose money this season, and that means you'll likely see more money saving trades or even teams looking to trader a first for a future first.