Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

[Dalek]

Not feeling Bane as much but that is why I guess he is underrated. I just don't like his low and slow release and his body is way too stocky. I think they compared him to Eric Gordon but I feel like Gordon has a quicker release.

I can see this concern, and Gordon has longer arms, as a direct 1-1 comp it's not great, but in terms of a guy whose body can help him, I think Bane could be in here.


edit: After saying a bunch of positive things and checking out some video, he doesn't move his feet and close as fast as I thought. If he were that kind of defender I could see the potential, but he does seem a little too limited in too many areas.

I think if you lack the footspeed and length, no amount of ball IQ and strength can compensate.On offense as well he seems a bit anemic even being able to get good looks after guys run him off the line.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/fred-vanvleet-58750/

VanVleet was measured at 6'1 in shoes during the 2015 Pan Am Training Camp with a 6'2 wingspan, which puts him below average in terms of height and length compared with most NBA point guards. He isn't a great athlete either, as he doesn't possess a high top speed or a quick burst, but he has an exceptionally high basketball IQ, can operate at different speeds and utilizes his strength well to make an impact in the half-court.

VanVleet is an interesting case with his short wingspan and overall size. If you think of Bane as your primary ballhandler I think that is quite iffy. He doesn't have the tight handle to operate at different speeds like a VanVleet does nor does he have any burst to be a lead.

VanVleet actually does have good lateral quickness on defense (see the 2019 Finals when he kept up with Curry). Not sure Banes could guard smalls. You likely stick him on combo guards and SFs and hope they don't shoot over him.

[Mark_83]

I can see this concern, and Gordon has longer arms, as a direct 1-1 comp it's not great, but in terms of a guy whose body can help him, I think Bane could be in here.


edit: After saying a bunch of positive things and checking out some video, he doesn't move his feet and close as fast as I thought. If he were that kind of defender I could see the potential, but he does seem a little too limited in too many areas.

I think if you lack the footspeed and length, no amount of ball IQ and strength can compensate.On offense as well he seems a bit anemic even being able to get good looks after guys run him off the line.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/fred-vanvleet-58750/

VanVleet was measured at 6'1 in shoes during the 2015 Pan Am Training Camp with a 6'2 wingspan, which puts him below average in terms of height and length compared with most NBA point guards. He isn't a great athlete either, as he doesn't possess a high top speed or a quick burst, but he has an exceptionally high basketball IQ, can operate at different speeds and utilizes his strength well to make an impact in the half-court.

VanVleet is an interesting case with his short wingspan and overall size. If you think of Bane as your primary ballhandler I think that is quite iffy. He doesn't have the tight handle to operate at different speeds like a VanVleet does nor does he have any burst to be a lead.

VanVleet actually does have good lateral quickness on defense (see the 2019 Finals when he kept up with Curry). Not sure Banes could guard smalls. You likely stick him on combo guards and SFs and hope they don't shoot over him.

Huh? I'm not making a direct comparison. I'm just showing you can do a lot with a high IQ, and some toughness. Vanvleet is often guarding point guards who are bigger, quicker, and more explosive than him, and he holds his own.

Bane's not gonna be your point guard, but he's smart enough to use screens and movement to get free on offence and strong and smart enough to stick with most 2s and 3s on defense.

I'm as big a proponent of a long wingspan as the next guy, and it definitely gives you an advantage, but look at Jimmy Butler, he's got T-rex arms and he's one of the best defenders in the league. He's also not overly quick (he played PF in college) but he's tough and savvy.

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[Indeed]

I can see this concern, and Gordon has longer arms, as a direct 1-1 comp it's not great, but in terms of a guy whose body can help him, I think Bane could be in here.


edit: After saying a bunch of positive things and checking out some video, he doesn't move his feet and close as fast as I thought. If he were that kind of defender I could see the potential, but he does seem a little too limited in too many areas.

I think if you lack the footspeed and length, no amount of ball IQ and strength can compensate.On offense as well he seems a bit anemic even being able to get good looks after guys run him off the line.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/fred-vanvleet-58750/

VanVleet was measured at 6'1 in shoes during the 2015 Pan Am Training Camp with a 6'2 wingspan, which puts him below average in terms of height and length compared with most NBA point guards. He isn't a great athlete either, as he doesn't possess a high top speed or a quick burst, but he has an exceptionally high basketball IQ, can operate at different speeds and utilizes his strength well to make an impact in the half-court.

VanVleet is an interesting case with his short wingspan and overall size. If you think of Bane as your primary ballhandler I think that is quite iffy. He doesn't have the tight handle to operate at different speeds like a VanVleet does nor does he have any burst to be a lead.

VanVleet actually does have good lateral quickness on defense (see the 2019 Finals when he kept up with Curry). Not sure Banes could guard smalls. You likely stick him on combo guards and SFs and hope they don't shoot over him.

At 29 of this draft, our options are pretty much someone with a major flaw. I guess we can go with potential instead of NBA ready or someone who performed well in college.

[JYD]

[quote="Mark_83"

VanVleet was measured at 6'1 in shoes during the 2015 Pan Am Training Camp with a 6'2 wingspan, which puts him below average in terms of height and length compared with most NBA point guards. He isn't a great athlete either, as he doesn't possess a high top speed or a quick burst, but he has an exceptionally high basketball IQ, can operate at different speeds and utilizes his strength well to make an impact in the half-court.

[/quote]

Fred has very good lateral quickness and can stay in front though. From what I saw of Bane, he wasn't that impressive in that area.

Fred's quickness there allows him to get up and into offensive players, negating some issues he has with length. But if you lack length and footspeed, now you either have to play off to prevent penetration and won't be able to challenge shots, or if you're playing tighter, guys will collapse your defense.

[Mark_83]

VanVleet was measured at 6'1 in shoes during the 2015 Pan Am Training Camp with a 6'2 wingspan, which puts him below average in terms of height and length compared with most NBA point guards. He isn't a great athlete either, as he doesn't possess a high top speed or a quick burst, but he has an exceptionally high basketball IQ, can operate at different speeds and utilizes his strength well to make an impact in the half-court.

Fred has very good lateral quickness and can stay in front though. From what I saw of Bane, he wasn't that impressive in that area.

Fred's quickness there allows him to get up and into offensive players, negating some issues he has with length. But if you lack length and footspeed, now you either have to play off to prevent penetration and won't be able to challenge shots, or if you're playing tighter, guys will collapse your defense.

I think you're either overeating Fred's quickness or underrating Bane's. Fred has solid foot speed, but I don't know about very good. He has elite hands and instincts though, and uses his thick body (much like Bane) to wall off drives. Him chasing around Curry (who isn't a speedster) was more about effort than quickness.

Bane isn't a slug, he's quick enough to hedge and get back to his assignment. Plus, hes not a point of attsck defender. He's mostly going to be guarding guys on the wings in the half court. When he does guard the point of attack, he's able to fight through screens, and when the opposing guard tries to create space by leaning into his chest, they just bounce off cause he's built like granite. I'm not going to say he's an elite defender or anything, but we're not talking Derozan level defense.

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[Psubs]

I think you're either overeating Fred's quickness or underrating Bane's. Fred has solid foot speed, but I don't know about very good. He has elite hands and instincts though, and uses his thick body (much like Bane) to wall off drives. Him chasing around Curry (who isn't a speedster) was more about effort than quickness.

Bane isn't a slug, he's quick enough to hedge and get back to his assignment. Plus, hes not a point of attsck defender. He's mostly going to be guarding guys on the wings in the half court. When he does guard the point of attack, he's able to fight through screens, and when the opposing guard tries to create space by leaning into his chest, they just bounce off cause he's built like granite. I'm not going to say he's an elite defender or anything, but we're not talking Derozan level defense.

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Nice! Effort, strength and he seems balanced.

[JYD]

I'm not going to say he's an elite defender or anything, but we're not talking Derozan level defense.

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Not implying that either, but if he can't guard a 1 much, that takes away versality. Maybe 2's and 3's he'd do well with, but then there are other issues, like him having a hard time getting good looks/separation when people run him off the line, and then he can't finish inside.

On the pro side he is a smart player, strong as an ox, and a very good shooter. For me there are too many shortcomings though, I'd rather go with a Balmaro or Flynn or Riller if taking a guard.

[HeadtopChunes]

I don't see Bane as a positive defender, should be fine in a team context because he is smart and knows where to be but I don't see him keeping up with Gs, fighting through screens, or guarding up or closing out particularly well.

[pr0gr4m]

I've liked both players to be honest. The question with Bolmaro is the shooting. The question with Hughes is his defense outside of the 2-3 zone. Both are play makers a shot creator a (Hughes more so).

I would pick Hughes this draft. He has a 6-10 wingspan at 6-6 that nearly Norm level length. He's an incredible shooter, explosive, confident, and I'm confident in his defense. Syracuse's team defense/zone would prepare him a bit for Nurse's system and he's probably decent enough at communicating on that end to not be a complete liability.

A players FT% over their college career is very telling as well. He's improved in that regard and others over the past few seasons. Taking him with our first would mean we're not getting a potential superstar but he's a solid player that could come off the bench next to that big piece.

That and he was placed in a scenario to be the do all and be all for Syracuse. It affected his efficiency but in our system he wouldn't have to carry that burden and just play. It did force him to be more of a shot creator which we desperately need in our rotation.

That's a very good point.

Drafting a player showing steady improvement in college, size/length, and having a bigger than equipped for roll usually works well. There are solid vets and a hierachy in our system that would control his use, chucking, and ease him into a Ross like player for a playoff rotation.

I would look to further develop his scoring ability in the Gleague rather than immediately plug him into the rotation. If he is slowly introduced into the line up/rotation I'm pretty confident he could be a starting level guard in 2 years.

The hardest aspect of finding a shot creating, scoring guard is they need opportunity and the chance to develop. The Raptors are a top 5 team in the NBA right now. This makes it difficult unless we were to use him in that manner in the Gleague. I'm fairly confident he could develop his handles how DeMar and OG have done so far. Combined with his shooting he could definitely be a difference maker. Keeping him undercontrol as we become a younger team would be the difficult aspect but he has a grounded personality.

[PhilBlackson]

I would just like for us to take a player with some good measurables (6’5+ up) that shows some good ball skills with the ability to develop into either a good to scorer (firstly which is why McDaniels or possibly Terry top my list) or someone with just a better bball IQ that can score n facilitate (like potentially Maledon, Bolmora or Poku). All the other names I see suggested scream high end role players to me (ie/ Tillman, Winston etc). Given our player development I’d like to see them actually have a better base to work with vs a piece they can just plug in with some coaching.

Hate to get ahead of myself but actually interested to see what our drafting is like next year when we presumably take a step back as some other teams (ie/ Nets) strengthen and when hopefully there’s a bit more (at least perceived) talent.

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As it stands right now my top 5 for our pick (not set on my order just yet) would be:

- Theo Maledon
- Jahmi’us Ramsey
- Jaden McDaniels
- Tyrell Terry
- Poku

H.M - Leandro Bolmaro, Isaiah Joe (admittedly these 2 feel like could be role players to me)

Any of those and I’ll be beyond happy with our draft and the last couple I’d be still fairly ok with. The rest of the names I see mentioned in this thread just feel very high end roleplayer players at their ceiling (which is what I feel much of our best young talent is), I’d like to see our development staff get the chance to work on a player that might just offer more...

[God Squad]

I would just like for us to take a player with some good measurables (6’5+ up) that shows some good ball skills with the ability to develop into either a good to scorer (firstly which is why McDaniels or possibly Terry top my list) or someone with just a better bball IQ that can score n facilitate (like potentially Maledon, Bolmora or Poku). All the other names I see suggested scream high end role players to me (ie/ Tillman, Winston etc). Given our player development I’d like to see them actually have a better base to work with vs a piece they can just plug in with some coaching.

Hate to get ahead of myself but actually interested to see what our drafting is like next year when we presumably take a step back as some other teams (ie/ Nets) strengthen and when hopefully there’s a bit more (at least perceived) talent.

Sounds like youre ready to embrace the rebuild.

[Psubs]

As it stands right now my top 5 for our pick (not set on my order just yet) would be:

- Theo Maledon
- Jahmi’us Ramsey
- Jaden McDaniels
- Tyrell Terry
- Poku

H.M - Leandro Bolmaro, Isaiah Joe (admittedly these 2 feel like could be role players to me)

Any of those and I’ll be beyond happy with our draft and the last couple I’d be still fairly ok with. The rest of the names I see mentioned in this thread just feel very high end roleplayer players at their ceiling (which is what I feel much of our best young talent is), I’d like to see our development staff get the chance to work on a player that might just offer more...

I think RJ Hampton matches your list. He was a prospect level with Lamelo pre-season. I think he's now at least an H.M. along the lines of Bolmaro.

[Indeed]

I would just like for us to take a player with some good measurables (6’5+ up) that shows some good ball skills with the ability to develop into either a good to scorer (firstly which is why McDaniels or possibly Terry top my list) or someone with just a better bball IQ that can score n facilitate (like potentially Maledon, Bolmora or Poku). All the other names I see suggested scream high end role players to me (ie/ Tillman, Winston etc). Given our player development I’d like to see them actually have a better base to work with vs a piece they can just plug in with some coaching.

Hate to get ahead of myself but actually interested to see what our drafting is like next year when we presumably take a step back as some other teams (ie/ Nets) strengthen and when hopefully there’s a bit more (at least perceived) talent.

As it stands right now my top 5 for our pick (not set on my order just yet) would be:

- Theo Maledon
- Jahmi’us Ramsey
- Jaden McDaniels
- Tyrell Terry
- Poku

H.M - Leandro Bolmaro, Isaiah Joe (admittedly these 2 feel like could be role players to me)

Any of those and I’ll be beyond happy with our draft and the last couple I’d be still fairly ok with. The rest of the names I see mentioned in this thread just feel very high end roleplayer players at their ceiling (which is what I feel much of our best young talent is), I’d like to see our development staff get the chance to work on a player that might just offer more...

Hmm, even McDaniels could be a role player. Definitely not at OG/Siakam level, while he maybe comparable to Boucher, where they contribute better on different area. Boucher with his 7'4 wingspan would be more 3+D, while McDaniels with his 7'1 wingspan may rely more on his ball penetration and isolation, but both of them seem to be below average passer (lack of vision).

[ATLTimekeeper]

As it stands right now my top 5 for our pick (not set on my order just yet) would be:

- Theo Maledon
- Jahmi’us Ramsey
- Jaden McDaniels
- Tyrell Terry
- Poku

H.M - Leandro Bolmaro, Isaiah Joe (admittedly these 2 feel like could be role players to me)

Any of those and I’ll be beyond happy with our draft and the last couple I’d be still fairly ok with. The rest of the names I see mentioned in this thread just feel very high end roleplayer players at their ceiling (which is what I feel much of our best young talent is), I’d like to see our development staff get the chance to work on a player that might just offer more...

Hmm, even McDaniels could be a role player. Definitely not at OG/Siakam level, while he maybe comparable to Boucher, where they contribute better on different area. Boucher with his 7'4 wingspan would be more 3+D, while McDaniels with his 7'1 wingspan may rely more on his ball penetration and isolation, but both of them seem to be below average passer (lack of vision).

Yes, he doesn't/hasn't scored enough where I'd buy that he could develop into a star at the pro level.

I have a couple of beliefs about the late first/2nd round. 1) It's rare to get even competent rotational players in this range. It's exceptionally rare to get stars. Typically, the players that do end up stars drafted in this range could score at above average volume at their previous level. The exceptions are players from pro levels (like Europe). 2) The guys that stick tend to be more mature/older players because the upside players in this range typically can't get on the court and then get lost in the numbers game. There's a draft every year, and the hype from being a rookie quickly disappears by the following draft. Teams just don't have the minutes or patience.

The Raptors job here is to make sure they get an NBA player out of this pick, not to suss out a diamond in the rough that could be a star by measuring arm length or shot creation or anything like that. Most of these guys won't have the ability to contribute at all. So the first question is 1) Can he get on the floor in year 1? and then 2) What weaknesses are easiest to remedy?

[Dalek]

The Raptors job here is to make sure they get an NBA player out of this pick, not to suss out a diamond in the rough that could be a star by measuring arm length or shot creation or anything like that. Most of these guys won't have the ability to contribute at all. So the first question is 1) Can he get on the floor in year 1? and then 2) What weaknesses are easiest to remedy?

My on the floor in year one candidates would be:

Cassius Winston - above average shotmaking and the best floor general in the draft make him an easy back-up PG. Very similar IQ to Lowry the way he sees the floor.

Malachi Flynn - similar to Winston, just with better defense and less shotmaking ability. Very similar IQ and base skills to FVV.

Ty-Shon Alexander - point-of-attack defender with greater shooting and okay playmaking - upgrade over Patrick McCaw.

Robert Woodard II - basically a solid three and D guy that doesn't have too much upside but I could see him as a back-up SF right away. Kind of similar to OG.

Tyler Bey - hybrid PF / SF that is a defensive stopper. Toronto finds minutes for guys like RHJ who just hustle and defend and grab boards. Bey plays within himself and can help Toronto for 10-15 minutes per game.

Killian Tillie - good shooting and playmaking ability and decent defense to get on the floor right away and could play big minutes if healthy. A lot like Marc Gasol being a spacer and playmaking big.

Daniel Oturu - solid back-up C with some shooting range and good mobility on defense. Easy back-up for 10-15 minutes. A bit like present day Ibaka potential.

Xavier Tillman - smallball C but his defense and passing can give you minutes straightaway. A bit of the playmaking and defensive IQ of Gasol.

[mademan]

Bane is a guy who is for sure to stick around in the league, based off his 3pt shooting, defensive awareness and overall BBIQ. If he works on his handles, i could possibly see a Brogdon like ceiling for him where he plays at his own pace and his strength/size makes him a valuable defender at the guard spot. Who knows if he hits that ceiling tho

[Dalek]

As it stands right now my top 5 for our pick (not set on my order just yet) would be:

- Theo Maledon
- Jahmi’us Ramsey
- Jaden McDaniels
- Tyrell Terry
- Poku

H.M - Leandro Bolmaro, Isaiah Joe (admittedly these 2 feel like could be role players to me)

Any of those and I’ll be beyond happy with our draft and the last couple I’d be still fairly ok with. The rest of the names I see mentioned in this thread just feel very high end roleplayer players at their ceiling (which is what I feel much of our best young talent is), I’d like to see our development staff get the chance to work on a player that might just offer more...

Interesting list of upside picks. The guys I have been curious about that also are similar to what you are looking for are also in the ESPN top 100. These guys stand out as athletes to me:

Kenyon Martin Jr. 6'7" (19) - Kenyon Martin's son who is an absolute freak leaper at his size - reminds me of Larry Nance Jr. I don't like that he skipped college, but he went to a prep program for the NBA so he is a bit under-the-radar. Kids of former NBA guys tend to succeed.

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Josh Hall - 6'8" (19 turns 20 in October) Prep schooler that looks like he has some basketball scoring skills but is mainly just a great long stride runner like Pascal Siakam. I like his mobility and his shot looks solid.

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Jay Scrubb - 6'6" (20) and offers a scorers mentality and has great athleticism. Not sure about his route to the NBA, but he has talent.

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Kahlil Whitney - 6'7" (19) was a freshman on Kentucky and decided to leave in January. He is a freak athlete (7 foot wingspan and 42 inch vert) but he did have some iffy college numbers.

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[OGLife]

I would just like for us to take a player with some good measurables (6’5+ up) that shows some good ball skills with the ability to develop into either a good to scorer (firstly which is why McDaniels or possibly Terry top my list) or someone with just a better bball IQ that can score n facilitate (like potentially Maledon, Bolmora or Poku). All the other names I see suggested scream high end role players to me (ie/ Tillman, Winston etc). Given our player development I’d like to see them actually have a better base to work with vs a piece they can just plug in with some coaching.

Hate to get ahead of myself but actually interested to see what our drafting is like next year when we presumably take a step back as some other teams (ie/ Nets) strengthen and when hopefully there’s a bit more (at least perceived) talent.

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I hope his wingspan issues make him fall.

[S ID]

I would just like for us to take a player with some good measurables (6’5+ up) that shows some good ball skills with the ability to develop into either a good to scorer (firstly which is why McDaniels or possibly Terry top my list) or someone with just a better bball IQ that can score n facilitate (like potentially Maledon, Bolmora or Poku). All the other names I see suggested scream high end role players to me (ie/ Tillman, Winston etc). Given our player development I’d like to see them actually have a better base to work with vs a piece they can just plug in with some coaching.

Hate to get ahead of myself but actually interested to see what our drafting is like next year when we presumably take a step back as some other teams (ie/ Nets) strengthen and when hopefully there’s a bit more (at least perceived) talent.

Watch on YouTube

I hope his wingspan issues make him fall.

Yeah there’s no way he has a 6’10 wingspan. More in the 6’6-6’7 range.

[Dalek]

I would pick Hughes this draft. He has a 6-10 wingspan at 6-6 that nearly Norm level length. He's an incredible shooter, explosive, confident, and I'm confident in his defense. Syracuse's team defense/zone would prepare him a bit for Nurse's system and he's probably decent enough at communicating on that end to not be a complete liability.

A players FT% over their college career is very telling as well. He's improved in that regard and others over the past few seasons. Taking him with our first would mean we're not getting a potential superstar but he's a solid player that could come off the bench next to that big piece.

That and he was placed in a scenario to be the do all and be all for Syracuse. It affected his efficiency but in our system he wouldn't have to carry that burden and just play. It did force him to be more of a shot creator which we desperately need in our rotation.

That's a very good point.

Drafting a player showing steady improvement in college, size/length, and having a bigger than equipped for roll usually works well. There are solid vets and a hierachy in our system that would control his use, chucking, and ease him into a Ross like player for a playoff rotation.

I would look to further develop his scoring ability in the Gleague rather than immediately plug him into the rotation. If he is slowly introduced into the line up/rotation I'm pretty confident he could be a starting level guard in 2 years.

The hardest aspect of finding a shot creating, scoring guard is they need opportunity and the chance to develop. The Raptors are a top 5 team in the NBA right now. This makes it difficult unless we were to use him in that manner in the Gleague. I'm fairly confident he could develop his handles how DeMar and OG have done so far. Combined with his shooting he could definitely be a difference maker. Keeping him undercontrol as we become a younger team would be the difficult aspect but he has a grounded personality.

I am not sure about Hughes as a scoring guard, at least how I would class that role. To me, he does his best work in isolation setting up for a jumpshot. Even though I do see issues with his shot selection at times, he is really skilled at creating his shot on the perimeter.

The big issue with Hughes is that he cannot finish at the rim. He shot only 1.09 points per shot around the rim in the half court [45th percentile] which is terrible considering he has good size as a wing. Toronto needs a guy who can draw fouls and make plays off the dribble. Hughes is more of 3 and D guy with some ball handling capability, which is okay, but I wonder if there are guys who could be a bit better.

A guy like Mason Jones adds much more of a scoring dimension, drawing fouls at a great rate and adds better scoring in transition.