Offseason Discussion

[Whole Truth]

It is very important to bear in mind that Wiggins isn`t just meh as a player, he is a poison pill for the roster. For the sake of the development of Ja & Co, we should avoid bringing him to the team regardless any benefits/assets attached.

Regarding the trades discussed above, in short, my position is as follows:

All other players/picks < Vassel = Onyeka = Clarke < JJJ <<< Ja

My main goal 2020 is to have this as Memphis big man rotation.

(#4-8) Onyeka / Jonas / Jontay in development league
3J / Clarke

After a full season of experimenting with which combinations fit best with 3J/JA, in 2021 Memphis will have depth & trade options. Could potentially package Jonas or a proven young big, which teams value in trade over the unknown, taking out the guess work.

(6-10) I like Okoro & his defensive potential but due to spacing issues the 2 wings I'm looking at are Williams > Vessell. Think Williams is a potential triple threat & has more potential than Vassel who I have down as a high end role player & great fit for Memphis. Think 3 & D, is Williams floor.

Onyeka > Williams > Vassel are my top 3 trade in picks for Memphis in this draft.

I took back Wiggins to net Minnesota's 2021 in order to combine picks in draft in the case Memphis take another leap in there development.

If Wiggins is a problem beyond his negative contract. I'm sure there's other similar contract's like Harris for example that Memphis could flip him for an equal or worse contract. One particular offer, I had Wiggins going to OKC to help Philly facilitate a trade for CP3...

[E S V L]

It is very important to bear in mind that Wiggins isn`t just meh as a player, he is a poison pill for the roster. For the sake of the development of Ja & Co, we should avoid bringing him to the team regardless any benefits/assets attached.

Regarding the trades discussed above, in short, my position is as follows:

All other players/picks < Vassel = Onyeka = Clarke < JJJ <<< Ja

My main goal 2020 is to have this as Memphis big man rotation.

(#4-8) Onyeka / Jonas / Jontay in development league
3J / Clarke

After a full season of experimenting with which combinations fit best with 3J/JA, in 2021 Memphis will have depth & trade options. Could potentially package Jonas or a proven young big, which teams value in trade over the unknown, taking out the guess work.

(6-10) I like Okoro & his defensive potential but due to spacing issues the 2 wings I'm looking at are Williams > Vessell. Think Williams is a potential triple threat & has more potential than Vassel who I have down as a high end role player & great fit for Memphis. Think 3 & D, is Williams floor.

Onyeka > Williams > Vassel are my top 3 trade in picks for Memphis in this draft.

I took back Wiggins to net Minnesota's 2021 in order to combine picks in draft in the case Memphis take another leap in there development.

If Wiggins is a problem beyond his negative contract. I'm sure there's other similar contract's like Harris for example that Memphis could flip him for an equal or worse contract. One particular offer, I had Wiggins going to OKC to help Philly facilitate a trade for CP3...

1. "Big man rotation"
We already have an A-level 3 big man rotation. No idea why should we spend so much (high 1st) to improve what is already elite. Just sign a veteran like Biyombo if it bothers you so much. I see the absence of an elite wing as our only big problem.

2. "Williams > Vassel"
No idea what do you see in Williams. I don`t see him even in top-15. He is clearly just a role player. Also, he is kind of PF, but: we have Clarke there, and we have Kyle and Justise who both cover most of the skills WIlliams possesses.

Just have a look at his defense and forget about him:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Vassel has nice light legs, high shooting release (almost unblockable), he is still very young, he has great body and hands, he will be able to defend elite wings, great kid overall. Reminds me Kahwi.

3. "Wiggins"

Wiggins is a poison pill, as I said. Even worse than Parsons. He has a very destructive mentality that can hurt Ja and JJJ. No picks can justify his presence in the team. But if there is a 3d team that is willing to take him, I would definitely consider trading for the GSW picks at the cost of onboarding a bad contract given it belongs to someone who is not a complete loser and idiot.

[Whole Truth]

1. "Big man rotation"
We already have an A-level 3 big man rotation. No idea why should we spend so much (high 1st) to improve what is already elite. Just sign a veteran like Biyombo if it bothers you so much. I see the absence of an elite wing as our only big problem.

2. "Williams > Vassel"
No idea what do you see in Williams. I don`t see him even in top-15. He is clearly just a role player. Also, he is kind of PF, but: we have Clarke there, and we have Kyle and Justise who both cover most of the skills WIlliams possesses.

Just have a look at his defense and forget about him:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Vassel has nice light legs, high shooting release (almost unblockable), he is still very young, he has great body and hands, he will be able to defend elite wings, great kid overall. Reminds me Kahwi.

3. "Wiggins"

Wiggins is a poison pill, as I said. Even worse than Parsons. He has a very destructive mentality that can hurt Ja and JJJ. No picks can justify his presence in the team. But if there is a 3d team that is willing to take him, I would definitely consider trading for the GSW picks at the cost of onboarding a bad contract given it belongs to someone who is not a complete loser and idiot.

1. Big man rotation

Jonas is the only physical big in the rotation. He's 28 & expiring. Onyeka brings something to the table the other big men don't, toughness, rebounding along with good hands & potential. Bizz isn't the solution, short or long term. He'd be a band aid solution.

2. Williams > Vassel

Vasssel is 6'7, 180, with a 6'11" wing span

- The thing that I like most about Vassell is that he consistently shot 40% over 2 college seasons. His shooting/defense translates.
- He has good athleticism & length
- He lacks the ability to handle the ball, pass & create for others or himself after 2 college seasons.

I have him as high end 3&D role player & great fit for Memphis (more Danny Green than Kawhi as you suggest)

Williams is 6'8, 220, with a 6'11" wing span

- Besides being the youngest player in the draft having just turned 19.
- Williams is bigger, stronger & more explosive than Vessell.
- He's a great rebounder for a wing, which would help makeup for 3J's weakness on the glass, could potentially use him as a SF/PF
- He's more versatile, capable of guarding multiple positions.
- equally impressive defensively on or off the ball
- I'm waiting for the combine but I also think he's quicker & more mobile than Vessel
- He wasn't as good a shooter at 32% in his rookie year but averaged 80+% on the FT line, with good form
- He's shown that he can handle, pass & potentially create.
- He has good court vision & makes good reads.

- Williams played limited mins in his freshman yr as a 18yo, despite being effective 9/4/1 in 20mins. IMO there's a lot of untapped potential, whereas Vassell has 2 college yrs under his belt & shown little to no ability to create.

I'm waiting on the combine for speed & mobility tests to solidify my opinion because Vassell is the better shooter but I think Williams will end up the better overall player.

[Whole Truth]

According to a Western Conference executive, word around the league is Minnesota isn’t leaning one way at No. 1, sounds “confused” and feels pressure after “messing up last year by trading for Jarrett Culver.”

The belief is that Minnesota’s priority is to trade, realistically down the board assuming an established star won’t become available.

https://clutchpoints.com/timberwolves-rumors-minnesotas-big-plans-with-no-1-pick-2020-nba-draft-revealed/

If Minnesota were willing, would Memphis package the Utah & GS pick for the #1, potentially trade down for #4 +.

[E S V L]

I wouldn`t touch our GSW pick as it can easily turn out to be very valuable by the time Ja and JJJ get their max contracts.

[Whole Truth]

I wouldn`t touch our GSW pick as it can easily turn out to be very valuable by the time Ja and JJJ get their max contracts.

I agree the GS pick is going to be valuable but doubt it would be better than it's top 4 protection. You can't trade for the #1 pick without giving up something valuable.

With some luck the Utah pick could be equally valuable. 8-14 in 2021, top 6 protected 2022, top 3 2023.

The trade is unknown for known value but 'I'm not shorting Minnesota on value for the #1.

[SD2042]

It is very important to bear in mind that Wiggins isn`t just meh as a player, he is a poison pill for the roster. For the sake of the development of Ja & Co, we should avoid bringing him to the team regardless any benefits/assets attached.

Regarding the trades discussed above, in short, my position is as follows:

All other players/picks < Vassel = Onyeka = Clarke < JJJ <<< Ja

I'm with you on the player/pick ranking.

And if we did end up with Wiggins I'd hope he'd simply be a bench piece for us. Hopefully in a 6th/7th man role he'd be ok. Hate him as a starter.

No disrespect, but if the Grizzlies were to trade for Wiggins on the idea of him being a 6th man based on his salary, It's a not an idea I would entertain. Like yourself, Wiggins development as a player has been disappointing although the numbers will indicate otherwise. Second, the Wolves are at fault for the lack of culture and accountability for how Wiggins turned out as a player. He was traded a few months ago as a result. My thoughts is that a player like Wiggins needs to be around vets who will hold him accountable and perhaps help him develop his game as a player. The more I've been thinking about where Wiggins is, he's in a better position to learn from a cast of players who have the vet experience and championship experience necessary for him to lean back on for professional growth.

[VCfor3]

It is very important to bear in mind that Wiggins isn`t just meh as a player, he is a poison pill for the roster. For the sake of the development of Ja & Co, we should avoid bringing him to the team regardless any benefits/assets attached.

Regarding the trades discussed above, in short, my position is as follows:

All other players/picks < Vassel = Onyeka = Clarke < JJJ <<< Ja

I'm with you on the player/pick ranking.

And if we did end up with Wiggins I'd hope he'd simply be a bench piece for us. Hopefully in a 6th/7th man role he'd be ok. Hate him as a starter.

No disrespect, but if the Grizzlies were to trade for Wiggins on the idea of him being a 6th man based on his salary, It's a not an idea I would entertain. Like yourself, Wiggins development as a player has been disappointing although the numbers will indicate otherwise. Second, the Wolves are at fault for the lack of culture and accountability for how Wiggins turned out as a player. He was traded a few months ago as a result. My thoughts is that a player like Wiggins needs to be around vets who will hold him accountable and perhaps help him develop his game as a player. The more I've been thinking about where Wiggins is, he's in a better position to learn from a cast of players who have the vet experience and championship experience necessary for him to lean back on for professional growth.

I mean yeah Wiggins is a horrible contract and very overpaid if you are putting him down as a 6th man, but the hope is that whoever you draft with #2 plays well enough that his production plus Wiggins is worth the salary of that pick+Wiggins bloated contract. I also would try to hit Philly up and see if they have interest in Wiggins+future 2nd for Horford if we move JV in the deal. Horford is again overpaid but would provide a good vet presence to our big rotation to replace JV. You are right though that GSW would be the best place for Wiggins to try and figure things out.

[E S V L]

1. No way Phil agrees to Wiggins for Horford without s serious incentive.
2. Why would we need Horford with his horrible contract?
3. #2 will be able to balance neither Wiggins` presence nor his 100m contract.
4. If we do nothing in 2020, we will end up with 50m cap, FRP, Ja, Clarke, and JJJ in 2021. That would be a much better position for negotiating the price for absorbing Wiggins or Horford`s contracts.

[VCfor3]

1. No way Phil agrees to Wiggins for Horford without s serious incentive.
2. Why would we need Horford with his horrible contract?
3. #2 will be able to balance neither Wiggins` presence nor his 100m contract.
4. If we do nothing in 2020, we will end up with 50m cap, FRP, Ja, Clarke, and JJJ in 2021. That would be a much better position for negotiating the price for absorbing Wiggins or Horford`s contracts.

Are you planning on declining Winslow's TO, not signing Melton, and dumping Anderson in the next year? Otherwise we won't be at 50m cap space.

Also if JV or another longer contract are outgoing then it offsets some of the incoming Wiggins/Horford salary so that we still have cap space in the 2021 offseason. Anderson+JV out and Horford+incentive in actually only adds a couple million to the books for instance.

[E S V L]

1. No way Phil agrees to Wiggins for Horford without s serious incentive.
2. Why would we need Horford with his horrible contract?
3. #2 will be able to balance neither Wiggins` presence nor his 100m contract.
4. If we do nothing in 2020, we will end up with 50m cap, FRP, Ja, Clarke, and JJJ in 2021. That would be a much better position for negotiating the price for absorbing Wiggins or Horford`s contracts.

Are you planning on declining Winslow's TO, not signing Melton, and dumping Anderson in the next year? Otherwise we won't be at 50m cap space.

Also if JV or another longer contract are outgoing then it offsets some of the incoming Wiggins/Horford salary so that we still have cap space in the 2021 offseason. Anderson+JV out and Horford+incentive in actually only adds a couple million to the books for instance.

Yes, I am planning to let Melton and Winslow go. And I value our cap capacity and flexibility a lot - otherwise, we might easily end up in a situation where we are locked in the roster which is required improvement, but we have no means to do this other than do a Gay or a Jeff Green type of trades.

[Whole Truth]

1. No way Phil agrees to Wiggins for Horford without s serious incentive.
2. Why would we need Horford with his horrible contract?
3. #2 will be able to balance neither Wiggins` presence nor his 100m contract.
4. If we do nothing in 2020, we will end up with 50m cap, FRP, Ja, Clarke, and JJJ in 2021. That would be a much better position for negotiating the price for absorbing Wiggins or Horford`s contracts.

Are you planning on declining Winslow's TO, not signing Melton, and dumping Anderson in the next year? Otherwise we won't be at 50m cap space.

Also if JV or another longer contract are outgoing then it offsets some of the incoming Wiggins/Horford salary so that we still have cap space in the 2021 offseason. Anderson+JV out and Horford+incentive in actually only adds a couple million to the books for instance.

Yes, I am planning to let Melton and Winslow go. And I value our cap capacity and flexibility a lot - otherwise, we might easily end up in a situation where we are locked in the roster which is required improvement, but we have no means to do this other than do a Gay or a Jeff Green type of trades.

Memphis are nowhere near a situation of being locked into a treadmill trading for Wiggins.

The trade takes on 2yrs roughly 20n, giving up the unknown value of the 24 GS pick 4yrs from now, where a lot can change, for the known value of the #4 pick & Minnesota 21, which best case, could be 5-10. The trade puts Memphis in position to have 3 strong consecutive drafts to helps add to their quickly improving core now, not 4yrs from now.

Cap & flexibility management.

- Over the 3yrs Memphis would have to house Wiggins contract, they will have 5 picks combined with Ja, 3J & Clarke for 8 players on rookie scale 8 control to help offset the salary taken on.

- Dieng is currently Memphis largest salary at 17m, which is expiring. I have Memphis using the #4 on Onyeka where Dieng is currently a depth option. So his 17m is replaced by the potential & rookie scale of the 4th pick. Memphis drops what, 10m? without losing a depth option.

- Jonas has 2yrs remaining at 15m, as a value contract, Memphis could potentially trade him into GS TE & drop his 30m or replace Winslow's potential expiring contract in trade, where he & Tyus' salary would eat up 2 of the 3yrs of Wiggins contract.

- Winslow 15m with Tyus 9m 2-3yrs as I suggest for Wiggins 27m, has Memphis taking on 20m per roughly for 2yr assuming Memphis had plans to not pick up his option.

Memphis are in early stages of building, development & probably won't need to make wining moves till 2022, where they would have only 1 yr to ride out before Wiggins becomes a large expiring that could be used to trade for depth or act as an expiring filler for a large salary star.

No factoring of any potential for Wiggins to regain some of his player value.

[E S V L]

Memphis are in early stages of building, development & probably won't need to make wining moves till 2022,
.

Wow. Did I miss something or only the injures of the core players (Tyus, JJJ, Winslow) prevented Memphis from joining PO 2020? I wouldn`t be too surprised if they beat the Lakers in the first round. My point is that this team is already ready to compete at the highest level.

Ok, let`s put your plan on the ground. How your new team would look like? I`ll then compare it with the current "do nothing" plan.

[Whole Truth]

Memphis are in early stages of building, development & probably won't need to make wining moves till 2022,
.

Wow. Did I miss something or only the injures of the core players (Tyus, JJJ, Winslow) prevented Memphis from joining PO 2020? I wouldn`t be too surprised if they beat the Lakers in the first round. My point is that this team is already ready to compete at the highest level.

Ok, let`s put your plan on the ground. How your new team would look like? I`ll then compare it with the current "do nothing" plan.

Memphis do appear to have a solid team but there are caveats.

When Colangelo joined the Raptors & drafted Bargnani #1. He traded for a solid starter in Rasho to have a veteran presence to start in his place next to a young good big in Bosh. The team ended up winning 47 games in his first year, made the playoffs & got swept year 2. Enter the win now moves, signing Kapano for spacing etc... Bargnani replaces Rasho in year 3 & from there it was a downward spiral capped by a TJ Ford injury. Where Memphis aren't even sure if 3J can stay healthy for a full season & or man the centre position long term, if they were to lose Jonas..

Memphis had a great year & you can ask VIc. I too thought they could have given LA a scare but then reality sets in as it did for the Raptors. Jonas is 28 & soon to be expiring, he was a good part of Memphis current success, 3J still hasn't proven he can play C full time as mentioned & Clarke is undersized, lacking strength & length in certain matchups. Replacing what Jonas brings to the table long term, is the reason I targeted Onyeka's toughness, aggression, rebounding & post play. To ensure Memphis don't lose what Jonas offsets in a group of soft, poor rebounding big men.

Is Winslow the long term solution at SF? We're not even sure if he can stay healthy, reason some GS fan rejected my offer with their need for a big wing defender & secondary ball handler. Not to mention, he's expiring. Tell me Memphis couldn't use a core wing player that can defend, create & shoot before looking to make win now moves..

Starting to see how quickly this years success can unravel for Memphis if they rush things?.

Maybe they are further along than I think but in no way am I going to rush my thinking having seen it blow up in Colangelo's face. Turned out winning 40+ games in his first year was the worse thing that could have happened to him & the Raptors. Don't want the same for Memphis.

Until Memphis young core can prove they can win & make the playoffs consistently. No win now moves. Reason I stated 2022; Memphis core would have to show consistency over that 3yr span.

This is my hope for a rotation heading into the season.

#4 Onyeka / Jonas/ Jontay development league
3J / Clarke
Wiggins / Anderson
Brooks / Melton
Ja / Allen

Minnesota 2021, potential to be 5-10. Hopefully removing Tyus, Replacing Jonas with a rookie & starting Wiggins, Memphis pick could be top lottery in a purposeful step back. 2 potential top 10 picks should help Memphis net their long term core wing.

If also possible 2020, I'd target Patrick Williams in the 8-12 range. If Suns want to get involved with the 10th pick for GS TPE concerning their interest in (Jonas).

[E S V L]

Wiggins is your starting sf, Allen is your backup pg?
In this case, Ja would likely reject the Grizzlies max offer and quit. And I would understand why. May be I would even follow him.

My plan is to go in 2021 with:

Ja / Tyus / #40
Brooks / Allen / Kanchar
Winslow / Anderson / veteran
JJJ / Clarke / Porter
JV / Dieng / Okafor

If this team keeps winning - fine. You add a FRP player in 2021, two FRPs in 2022, etc. You also add a real star in 2021 (not Wiggins). This successful team is able to roll in a winning mode for years due to cap flexibility and a bunch of future picks.

If this team, as you have nicely predicted, failed in 2021, we let Winslow go, trade expiring Kyle, Tyus, JV, and end up with 50-60m cap, which we can trade for bad contracts to get prospects/picks.

How my plan differs from yours? Well, I give this team a chance, while you see them in a loosing mode right now.

PS Patrick Williams looks like a bust

[Whole Truth]

Wiggins is your starting sf, Allen is your backup pg?
In this case, Ja would likely reject the Grizzlies max offer and quit. And I would understand why. May be I would even follow him.

My plan is to go in 2021 with:

Ja / Tyus / #40
Brooks / Allen / Kanchar
Winslow / Anderson / veteran
JJJ / Clarke / Porter
JV / Dieng / Okafor

If this team keeps winning - fine. You add a FRP player in 2021, two FRPs in 2022, etc. You also add a real star in 2021 (not Wiggins). This successful team is able to roll in a winning mode for years due to cap flexibility and a bunch of future picks.

If this team, as you have nicely predicted, failed in 2021, we let Winslow go, trade expiring Kyle, Tyus, JV, and end up with 50-60m cap, which we can trade for bad contracts to get prospects/picks.

How my plan differs from yours? Well, I give this team a chance, while you see them in a loosing mode right now.

PS Patrick Williams looks like a bust

The team I listed is what Memphis would look like post trade, it doesn't have to be what they enter the season with.

I have Wiggins starting in attempt to angle the team for a high pick, you have an injury prone player starting, attempting to contend in combination with a young & developing team. Where both options to end up lotto. In trading for Wiggins, Memphis now have the 2020 #4, Minnesota potential 2021 5-10 in combination with their own lotto pick, to potentially add that 3rd core member, sooner rather than later.

I didn't predict the current team will lose or not make the playoffs. I'm stating they need one more core piece before looking to make win now moves, as to not rush things. I think the team could potentially make the playoffs. Then what?. you think they have enough as is to be a championship caliber team?.

Hypothetically, you run last years team back & they fall flat, which is possible, would Ja quit then too? talk about hyperbole. Cavs basically sat Irving for 3 seasons to land their 3 1st's, which enticed Lebron to return & compile the necessary assets to trade for Love, which won them a Championship. I'm only angling the team lotto, for one season, 2021. It's not even guaranteed that roster would fall flat if 3J & Ja take considerable steps in their development. Memphis can't keep relying on lottery luck, which has them where they are in the first place. Most wanted to convey the pick that landed Morant. Where would Memphis be if not for luck?.

2021 there will be enough quality free agent options at PG to replace Tyus in free agency. With the Minnesota & Memphis 2021 picks, they will have multiple picks & opportunity to land their potential long term replacement at SG/SF in the draft, replace Wiggins as a starter heading into 2022.

IMO this team currently is good but not Championship good. Your plan has them restarting in 2yrs when 3J will be looking at his first extension & or Winslow shows he's a fit or not in a 2yr window.

In detail, how did you come to the conclusion Williams will be a bust? most have him rising in stock.

[Whole Truth]

Chicago trade - (Carter Jr, Porter, #4) for (Dieng, Anderson, Allen, #2).

Bulls select either Wiseman or Ball #1, get a temporary veteran C, net 2 young wings for an expiring Porter.

Minnesota trade - (Culver, #1) for (Carter JR, Utah 2022, GS 2024)

Off a poor rookie season, Minnesota move Culver (having Beasley/DLo) & #1 for a PF/C in Carter & 2 projected valuable FRP's

Memphis trade - (Dieng, Anderson, Allen, Utah 2022, GS 2024) for (Porter, Culver, #4)

I have Memphis drafting Onyeka at 4 to eventually replace Jonas, shedding some salary & netting a young 2 way SG/SF to either potentially pair with or replace Brooks, while adding 2 way depth to the wing rotation.

#4 Onyeka / Jonas / Jontay development league
3J / Clarke
Winslow / Porter
Culver / Brooks / Melton?.
Ja / Tyus

[Whole Truth]

I saw on the Minnesota board that the league may be pushing back the 2022 double draft. If that's the case, I'd be more willing to move the Utah pick.

[VCfor3]

I saw on the Minnesota board that the league may be pushing back the 2022 double draft. If that's the case, I'd be more willing to move the Utah pick.

I think it is highly likely that that gets pushed back. The G league select team allows 18y.o players to get into the NBA fold to some degree and the financial uncertainty of everything going on right now makes me think that the NBA will be hesitant to make any substantial changes like lowering the age.

[VCfor3]

W

Given your activity on the Trade board, are there any reasonable deals you maybe like to see us make this offseason even if the likely scenario is us mostly standing pat?

EDIT: Just wanted to see which of your various proposed trades (or trades others may have proposed) that you'd actually like to see and which were more about having fun/gauging value.