Official 2020 Nba Draft Thread

[rmfc]

If the BPA at 7 is a wing who can’t shoot, trade down. I’d rather teach Duncan Robinson how to play defense than Stanley Johnson how to shoot.

Vassell will (most probably) be there. So, Pistons could and should just draft him.

Agreed. This is especially true with a player development staff/department that's as horrendous as the Pistons.

[Crymson]

Successful teams have a identity dude!

At no point have I said I want to build a team focused on the defensive end but you keep pushing this idea that the phrase "culture" = defense.

What's the Heat culture like? We've heard all about that all playoffs - it's not defense first as you've pointed out so I got no idea why you seem to push that strawman out here so often.

Assuming we have Wood, keep Luke & Svi on the roster, can add a young shooter and a quality 2 way wing is that not a step in the right direction?

Comes down to coaching, developing our guys and system on both ends of the floor and creating a environment where working hard is the norm, not the exception!

What identity have the successful teams of recent memory had? What I'm referring to is the constant talk of "We should draft X because he'd be a good culture guy!" in which X is invariably a guy who works hard and grinds on defense but possesses a remarkable shortcoming on offense. That shortcoming in that most vitally important of categories is treated as acceptable thanks to the work ethic and defense of the player involved. Said perspective reflects the manner in which the Pistons championship teams of old operated, but those eras are bygone.

That's what I'm referencing. Yes, a team that plays well together is important. Yes, hard work is very important. Yes, defense is important. But looking to a guy because of one or some combination of "He'd help us to build a culture!" "He's Detroit Basketball to the core!" and "He reminds me of the Going to Work Pistons!" entirely misses the realities of the modern NBA.

We have zero identity, zero culture, zero brand! That needs to change and quick

Case in point. The issue is that we have woefully insufficient TALENT. TALENT, not culture, identity, or brand, is the imperative focus of a rebuild and of success in general.

If the BPA at 7 is a wing who can’t shoot, trade down. I’d rather teach Duncan Robinson how to play defense than Stanley Johnson how to shoot.

Aye. Drafting a shooter with a broken shot on the chance that he can be taught to shoot is a dicey proposition, one best left to teams in a comfortable position to take that risk. Those teams are generally not found in the high lottery.

Agreed. This is especially true with a player development staff/department that's as horrendous as the Pistons.

I don't understand this general notion. The Pistons were awful at this thanks to the incompetence of Dumars and Van Gundy, not due to some inherent flaw on the part of the organization. The idea inherent to new management is that they hire the correct people. Dumars and Van Gundy just so happened to serve consecutively and both be woefully inept.

The Pistons will most likely go precisely nowhere if they don't improve in the category of development, so we'd best all hope for that improvement in any scenario.

[MotownMadness]

Successful teams have a identity dude!

At no point have I said I want to build a team focused on the defensive end but you keep pushing this idea that the phrase "culture" = defense.

What's the Heat culture like? We've heard all about that all playoffs - it's not defense first as you've pointed out so I got no idea why you seem to push that strawman out here so often.

Assuming we have Wood, keep Luke & Svi on the roster, can add a young shooter and a quality 2 way wing is that not a step in the right direction?

Comes down to coaching, developing our guys and system on both ends of the floor and creating a environment where working hard is the norm, not the exception!

What identity have the successful teams of recent memory had? What I'm referring to is the constant talk of "We should draft X because he'd be a good culture guy!" in which X is invariably a guy who works hard and grinds on defense but possesses a remarkable shortcoming on offense. That shortcoming in that most vitally important of categories is treated as acceptable thanks to the work ethic and defense of the player involved. Said perspective reflects the manner in which the Pistons championship teams of old operated, but those eras are bygone.

That's what I'm referencing. Yes, a team that plays well together is important. Yes, hard work is very important. Yes, defense is important. But looking to a guy because of one or some combination of "He'd help us to build a culture!" "He's Detroit Basketball to the core!" and "He reminds me of the Going to Work Pistons!" entirely misses the realities of the modern NBA.

We have zero identity, zero culture, zero brand! That needs to change and quick

Case in point. The issue is that we have woefully insufficient TALENT. TALENT, not culture, identity, or brand, is the imperative focus of a rebuild and of success in general.

NBA is wierd though, Detroit when its successful will almost have to follow the blueprints of the past or draft a couple offensive stars this time. You cant just trade a bunch of assets for a star here and then pay another one to come on his own free will or anything like the Lakers making it extremely easy.

It will be more like a slow build that eventually acquires multiple allstar level players with veteran depth. Gotta land a star out of the draft eventually somehow. Then outside of that its gonna take smart trades finding those young guys teams have given up on but still have potential types that we wouldn't have to break the bank trading for.

[Crymson]

NBA is wierd though, Detroit when its successful will almost have to follow the blueprints of the past or draft a couple offensive stars this time. You cant just trade a bunch of assets for a star here and then pay another one to come on his own free will or anything like the Lakers making it extremely easy.

Following the blueprints of the past is not a viable strategy. The acquisition of a couple of offensive stars (are there any other sort of stars these days?) will be necessary should the organization wish to see success.

The Lakers did not have it "extremely easy." They were the worst team in the NBA by record over the period between 2013 and 2018. Acquiring LeBron is a different story, of course. Though for all people pointed to Butler desiring a move to Miami, the fact is that he'd probably still be playing for the Sixers had Brand not completely botched the situation.

It will be more like a slow build that eventually acquires multiple allstar level players with veteran depth. Gotta land a star out of the draft eventually somehow. Then outside of that its gonna take smart trades finding those young guys teams have given up on but still have potential types that we wouldn't have to break the bank trading for.

If the Pistons opt to do it right, it'll probably be a slow build. There are no guarantees of success, but the chances of success will be far higher than had been provided by the last decade's strategy.

[MotownMadness]

NBA is wierd though, Detroit when its successful will almost have to follow the blueprints of the past or draft a couple offensive stars this time. You cant just trade a bunch of assets for a star here and then pay another one to come on his own free will or anything like the Lakers making it extremely easy.

Following the blueprints of the past is not a viable strategy. The acquisition of a couple of offensive stars (are there any other sort of stars these days?) will be necessary should the organization wish to see success.

The Lakers did not have it "extremely easy." They were the worst team in the NBA by record over the period between 2013 and 2018. Acquiring LeBron is a different story, of course. Though for all people pointed to Butler desiring a move to Miami, the fact is that he'd probably still be playing for the Sixers had Brand not completely botched the situation.

It will be more like a slow build that eventually acquires multiple allstar level players with veteran depth. Gotta land a star out of the draft eventually somehow. Then outside of that its gonna take smart trades finding those young guys teams have given up on but still have potential types that we wouldn't have to break the bank trading for.

If the Pistons opt to do it right, it'll probably be a slow build. There are no guarantees of success, but the chances of success will be far higher than had been provided by the last decade's strategy.

Guess I dont see what other strategy there really is for them in this market. Saying LA didn't have a difficult path and then also mention how they can just sign the best player in basketball in FA with a awful FO is my point.

We aren't like everyone else and probably have the worst market in the league for where a player would want to be.

It's just sit back and rebuild collecting players and developing them then build a identity around those set of players.

[Crymson]

It's just sit back and rebuild collecting players and developing them then build a identity around those set of players.

That's how it is for the vast majority of NBA franchises.

[Drwho17]

Trade Blake/Rose/#7 for Wiggins/#2.

That would be nice, total youth movement with cap and tank for Cunningham

Brought up a zillion times. Never going to happen. Wiggins has much more value to Golden State than Blake could. Pillory Wiggins all you want, but for the Warriors he's a trade-value superstar when compared to Griffin.

Every Pistons fan needs to accept the following: Griffin has miserable trade value. There's no guarantee that he'll ever be the same, and he's almost guaranteed to be injured every season anyway. When he isn't injured, he's a bad fit into any team on which he cannot be the unequivocal #1 ballhandler with the offense run entirely around him. And he's not good enough to be that for a team that has high aspirations. The Pistons would need to pay in order to get rid of him at all. That's reality. Accept it.

Trade luke to boston for 14 and 47

Draft okongwu or Wiseman at 7 and hampton at 14

An okongwu/wiseman wood front court would be a nice future. An athletic playmaking guard dying to lead a team guves the pistons an actual direction

Shouldn't we all be long part thinking about the frontcourt and more focused upon this roster's long-term, near-desperate lack of able personnel at point guard and on the wing? I mean, seriously: Van Gundy took the moronic path of packing the frontcourt with an archaic, expensive duo of Drummond and Griffin at the cost of utterly depleting what little strength on the wing the Pistons had. Today's league plays through point guards and athletic wings. And for that matter, shouldn't we all be long since over traditional centers? Like, honestly, can we as fans not learn from all of the abundant mistakes the organization has made over the past decade? Does all the failure suggest to people that the Pistons should continue along the same course?

Also, Wood is by far a better fit at center. Offensively speaking, he's the ideal modern center. At power forward he's a slow-footed perimeter defender who cannot participate as much in the play on offense.

Gerald Wallace is used as a comp for Okoro often.

An athletic forward who shoots a bad percentage on threes and rarely attempts them? Yeah, sounds about right. And that's why the Pistons should have no interest in Okoro. Everyone's chief concern---scouts included---is how bad his shot looks. Guys who shoot badly on threes in college AND have bad shooting form rarely improve substantively in the NBA. The Pistons CANNOT afford to draft yet another bad shooter high in the first round.

I also really wish people would leave off the notion of "culture" and "DEEEETROIIIIT basketball." Teams can only win on offense these days. Culture and defense won't win you games if you don't have scorers.

Again there's this idea that culture and defense means your offense suffers - Miami say hi, as do the Nets pre Kyrie and KD.

Yes we are desperate for shooters, every team is. We're desperate for talent too and the right mindset!

If I can get a athletic wing, with plenty of talent, the right mindset, capable of defending 1 through 4 but his shot needs work? I'll take him.

All these kids in the top 7 have issues, none are finished products but as I've said I'm starting to believe Okoro won't be there and Hayes might not be either!

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Can't we just sing Michael Kidd-Gilchrist already then? I'm pretty sure he's available and cheap.

[MotownMadness]

It's just sit back and rebuild collecting players and developing them then build a identity around those set of players.

That's how it is for the vast majority of NBA franchises.

Which is why a vast have never won anything and I still think we got it worse than anyone else as a market. Even miami can just have a roster of young talent through the draft and Butler go there as a vet in FA putting them in the Finals, we couldn't ever have that even.

[Crymson]

Which is why a vast have never won anything and I still think we got it worse than anyone else as a market. Even miami can just have a roster of young talent through the draft and Butler go there as a vet in FA putting them in the Finals, we couldn't ever have that even.

We've got to hope for the best, I suppose. The 2015 Warriors drafted and developed their team.

[vic]

"Okoro added that he’s been studying the games of Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Rajon Rondo, to Leonard and Nikola Jokic and the stifling defense of the Detroit Pistons’ Bad Boys."

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/built-to-win-knicks-prospect-isaac-okoro-hates-losing/

[Crymson]

"Okoro added that he’s been studying the games of Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Rajon Rondo, to Leonard and Nikola Jokic and the stifling defense of the Detroit Pistons’ Bad Boys."

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/built-to-win-knicks-prospect-isaac-okoro-hates-losing/

Yay. He's still a guy with a broken shot. He can be Mr. Defense and he'd still be a bad pick for the Pistons if he doesn't become a reasonably good shooter. Beyond the fact that such a player is an offensive liability, the Pistons first and foremost need effective offensive creators.

I'm not sure what he hopes to learn from the Bad Boys' defense. Their defense depended upon a physical brand of basketball, otherwise known as beating the snot out of the opponent. You can't do that anymore.

[Pharaoh]

"Okoro added that he’s been studying the games of Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Rajon Rondo, to Leonard and Nikola Jokic and the stifling defense of the Detroit Pistons’ Bad Boys."

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-knicks/built-to-win-knicks-prospect-isaac-okoro-hates-losing/

Yay. He's still a guy with a broken shot. He can be Mr. Defense and he'd still be a bad pick for the Pistons if he doesn't become a reasonably good shooter. Beyond the fact that such a player is an offensive liability, the Pistons first and foremost need effective offensive creators.

I'm not sure what he hopes to learn from the Bad Boys' defense. Their defense depended upon a physical brand of basketball, otherwise known as beating the snot out of the opponent. You can't do that anymore.

Is it reasonable to assume that while studying all those different players and the Bad Boys he's actually been working on his shooting?

Considering we're reading stories about other dudes working on their offensive games wouldn't you expect Okoro (& many others) to be doing the same?

Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?

Dude is apparently studying all those players, all had very different skill sets...that's a good thing cause you steal from everyone to improve your own game.

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[Crymson]

Is it reasonable to assume that while studying all those different players and the Bad Boys he's actually been working on his shooting?

Considering we're reading stories about other dudes working on their offensive games wouldn't you expect Okoro (& many others) to be doing the same?

Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?

Dude is apparently studying all those players, all had very different skill sets...that's a good thing cause you steal from everyone to improve your own game.

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There's a very equivalent example in the NBA today: a wing who was highly athletic, a super hard worker and a ferocious, multipositional defender, and suffered similarly from a broken jumpshot, poor perimeter shooting, and poor free-throw shooting in the NCAA. His name is Andre Roberson, and he worked hard on his shot for years without success. He was a major offensive liability even on Thunder rosters that were replete with superstar talent.

Guys who shoot poorly with broken shots in the NCAA more often than not flunk as shooters in the NBA regardless of how much work they do, and the Pistons (whose first, second, third, and most important need is scorers) cannot afford with the first pick of this rebuild and with a pick in the high lottery to take a risk on a player whose chief weakness is that most important component of offense. Okoro was also not particularly good at any form of creating offense in the NCAA, which is less concerning but still a consideration.

Some guys just don't get it together as shooters regardless of how hard they work, and bad three-point shooting and bad shot form in college are major warning signs.

[vic]

Is it reasonable to assume that while studying all those different players and the Bad Boys he's actually been working on his shooting?

Considering we're reading stories about other dudes working on their offensive games wouldn't you expect Okoro (& many others) to be doing the same?

Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?

Dude is apparently studying all those players, all had very different skill sets...that's a good thing cause you steal from everyone to improve your own game.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

There's a very equivalent example in the NBA today: a wing who was highly athletic, a super hard worker and a ferocious, multipositional defender, and suffered similarly from a broken jumpshot, poor perimeter shooting, and poor free-throw shooting in the NCAA. His name is Andre Roberson, and he worked hard on his shot for years without success. He was a major offensive liability even on Thunder rosters that were replete with superstar talent.

Guys who shoot poorly with broken shots in the NCAA more often than not flunk as shooters in the NBA regardless of how much work they do, and the Pistons (whose first, second, third, and most important need is scorers) cannot afford with the first pick of this rebuild and with a pick in the high lottery to take a risk on a player whose chief weakness is that most important component of offense. Okoro was also not particularly good at any form of creating offense in the NCAA, which is less concerning but still a consideration.

Some guys just don't get it together as shooters regardless of how hard they work, and bad three-point shooting and bad shot form in college are major warning signs.

Okoro will most likely end up much more similar to Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard than Andre Roberson & MKG.

He has an elite, outlier 2 point percentage, and hes better at driving to the rim from the wing and finishing than anybody in this draft.

His assist/turnover ratio being greater than 1 is also a good sign of his iq.

He also has the same 3pt percentage as Anthony Edwards and Lamelo Ball, the number 1 and 2 picks this year.

His team trusted him to take game winners so theres something there. Towards the end of the year his 3 point percentage was noticeably better.

He'll be fine as the next Piston. Defense still wins championships.

[Pharaoh]

Is it reasonable to assume that while studying all those different players and the Bad Boys he's actually been working on his shooting?

Considering we're reading stories about other dudes working on their offensive games wouldn't you expect Okoro (& many others) to be doing the same?

Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?

Dude is apparently studying all those players, all had very different skill sets...that's a good thing cause you steal from everyone to improve your own game.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

There's a very equivalent example in the NBA today: a wing who was highly athletic, a super hard worker and a ferocious, multipositional defender, and suffered similarly from a broken jumpshot, poor perimeter shooting, and poor free-throw shooting in the NCAA. His name is Andre Roberson, and he worked hard on his shot for years without success. He was a major offensive liability even on Thunder rosters that were replete with superstar talent.

Guys who shoot poorly with broken shots in the NCAA more often than not flunk as shooters in the NBA regardless of how much work they do, and the Pistons (whose first, second, third, and most important need is scorers) cannot afford with the first pick of this rebuild and with a pick in the high lottery to take a risk on a player whose chief weakness is that most important component of offense. Okoro was also not particularly good at any form of creating offense in the NCAA, which is less concerning but still a consideration.

Some guys just don't get it together as shooters regardless of how hard they work, and bad three-point shooting and bad shot form in college are major warning signs.

I did ask "Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?"

You certainly answered that question man!

Kid is 19 and you've written him off already.

Yeah ok it's possible he ends up as the next Winslow or SJ but it is possible that he doesn't.

You're just not willing to entertain that despite continuing to post that "wings matter"

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[Pharaoh]

Is it reasonable to assume that while studying all those different players and the Bad Boys he's actually been working on his shooting?

Considering we're reading stories about other dudes working on their offensive games wouldn't you expect Okoro (& many others) to be doing the same?

Or are you just gonna take every opportunity to talk down Okoro as a prospect?

Dude is apparently studying all those players, all had very different skill sets...that's a good thing cause you steal from everyone to improve your own game.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

There's a very equivalent example in the NBA today: a wing who was highly athletic, a super hard worker and a ferocious, multipositional defender, and suffered similarly from a broken jumpshot, poor perimeter shooting, and poor free-throw shooting in the NCAA. His name is Andre Roberson, and he worked hard on his shot for years without success. He was a major offensive liability even on Thunder rosters that were replete with superstar talent.

Guys who shoot poorly with broken shots in the NCAA more often than not flunk as shooters in the NBA regardless of how much work they do, and the Pistons (whose first, second, third, and most important need is scorers) cannot afford with the first pick of this rebuild and with a pick in the high lottery to take a risk on a player whose chief weakness is that most important component of offense. Okoro was also not particularly good at any form of creating offense in the NCAA, which is less concerning but still a consideration.

Some guys just don't get it together as shooters regardless of how hard they work, and bad three-point shooting and bad shot form in college are major warning signs.

Okoro will most likely end up much more similar to Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard than Andre Roberson & MKG.

He has an elite, outlier 2 point percentage, and hes better at driving to the rim from the wing and finishing than anybody in this draft.

His assist/turnover ratio being greater than 1 is also a good sign of his iq.

He also has the same 3pt percentage as Anthony Edwards and Lamelo Ball, the number 1 and 2 picks this year.

His team trusted him to take game winners so theres something there. Towards the end of the year his 3 point percentage was noticeably better.

He'll be fine as the next Piston. Defense still wins championships.

No point stating facts or showing stats man. He's dead against Okoro by any means necessary.

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[vic]

The last time the Pistons passed on a defense first Piston DNA guy with an unstoppable layup & dunk package for a non-defensive shooter/playmaker... It was Luke Kennard over DONOVAN Mitchell.

That’s not gonna happen again. Not on Troy Weavers watch!

[rmfc]

The last time the Pistons passed on a defense first Piston DNA guy with an unstoppable layup & dunk package for a non-defensive shooter/playmaker... It was Luke Kennard over DONOVAN Mitchell.

That’s not gonna happen again. Not on Troy Weavers watch!

That's the #1 priority, really. The Pistons have made so many blunders in the draft that it just hurts to even to think about the team's future.

Luke Kennard over Donovan Mitchell???
Only the Pistons.

And for the folks who don't understand our reasons: it's okay.
It's okay if you don't understand the notion. The franchise (regardless whose regime it was) hasn't shown any ability to develop players. It's not always someone else's fault. Unless they clearly demonstrate that they can develop even a single player, it's perfectly fine for us to stick to our current judgement of the franchise.

So, it's better to draft players with clear strengths that don't hesitate to use those same strengths when they make it to the NBA than draft a raw talent and hope that they completely transform into a megastar all by themselves.

[mattao313]

Donovan Mitchell isn't even a good defender in the NBA

[rmfc]

Donovan Mitchell isn't even a good defender in the NBA

Only the Pistons fans.