Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

Psubs · Post #3001 » by **Psubs** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:07 pm

I think the most realistic trade down is with Sacramento.

#29 for #35 and #52. Hall and Hinton!!!

ATLTimekeeper · Post #3002 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:51 pm

Psubs wrote:I think the most realistic trade down is with Sacramento.

#29 for #35 and #52. Hall and Hinton!!!

It makes no sense to go from guaranteed control to two non-guaranteed deals. Players of interest around #52 will just say don't draft me.

#29 is worth it for the contract alone.

TorontoRapsFan · Post #3003 » by **TorontoRapsFan** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:06 pm

Why are so many of you thinking our picks are supposed to help our offense next year? None of our draft picks are supposed to be players the Raptors should expect contribution from next year. So I don't see how some players are being picked or rejected for what they'll contribute to the bench lineup. Their immediate contribution is probably bottom of the list for why a player gets picked where we're concerned.

Indeed · Post #3004 » by **Indeed** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:10 pm

Psubs wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Psubs wrote:Does it feel like anyone we draft at #29 is icing as I believe he can find an undrafted player that could be just as good?

The undraft pool/late 2nd round are less hyped, particularly less emphasize on 3 point shooting. Some of them in Saben Lee, Mane, Marshall are ranked lower because of their 3 point shooting (and few more weaknesses).
I am not surprised if someone at late 2nd round and massively improve his 3 point shooting, he could be a steal in the draft.

I feel like Skylar Mays, Mason Jones are all over on mocks so they are candidates to go undrafted. Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I don't think sign and trade works that way. Clippers are not obligated to take on Johnson / Powell contract. I would rather assume we have to keep Johnson and Powell (since you cannot trade Johnson until he confirms, while Powell contact is pretty bad for teams involving with the 2021 FA class, McCaw is the only contract with value).

PG: VanVleet / Davis / 2nd
SG: Lowry / Powell / Thomas
SF: OG / McCaw / 1st
PF: Siakam / Boucher / Johnson
C: Ibaka / FA / Hernandez

To me, a lot of concern at the backup SF/PF position. In terms of skills, it would be Point skill and Ball Penetration with passing vision.

Indeed · Post #3005 » by **Indeed** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 5:12 pm

TorontoRapsFan wrote:Why are so many of you thinking our picks are supposed to help our offense next year? None of our draft picks are supposed to be players the Raptors should expect contribution from next year. So I don't see how some players are being picked or rejected for what they'll contribute to the bench lineup. Their immediate contribution is probably bottom of the list for why a player gets picked where we're concerned.

That is what I have been saying, anyone we drafted could be behind Davis, while Davis didn't get a lot of minutes last year, and got fouled out in 15 mins. I expect who we drafted may spend half the time in D-League first, similar to Siakam, Boucher, and etc.

Dalek · Post #3006 » by **Dalek** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:39 pm

TorontoRapsFan wrote:Why are so many of you thinking our picks are supposed to help our offense next year? None of our draft picks are supposed to be players the Raptors should expect contribution from next year. So I don't see how some players are being picked or rejected for what they'll contribute to the bench lineup. Their immediate contribution is probably bottom of the list for why a player gets picked where we're concerned.

I don't know about that comment about contributing next year, especially in a weaker draft year like this. Teams picking at the end of the first usually go for easy win-now candidates. Toronto still wants to be competitive and using a pick to get a lower ceiling, high floor player means they can plug some holes now. A case can be made that FVV and Lowry need a competent third PG that can run the second unit (Guys like Cassius Winston, Tre Jones, Malachi Flynn, Skylar Mays and Saben Lee all seem like immediate contributors).

That said, I could see them take a project player with a first if they believe in their long-term make-up and they have a good development plan in place. Bolmaro is a guy that is ideal because he could be drafted in the first and developed overseas for a year or two to get stronger. Poku is another guy that I think they would wait on and maybe they could figure out a way to stash him in Europe for some time. Guys like Hall or Scrubb are riskier picks because I don't know how much they will develop in the G-League plus the clock already starts ticking with them once they sign their rookie deal.

Psubs · Post #3007 » by **Psubs** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 6:57 pm

Indeed wrote:
TorontoRapsFan wrote:Why are so many of you thinking our picks are supposed to help our offense next year? None of our draft picks are supposed to be players the Raptors should expect contribution from next year. So I don't see how some players are being picked or rejected for what they'll contribute to the bench lineup. Their immediate contribution is probably bottom of the list for why a player gets picked where we're concerned.

That is what I have been saying, anyone we drafted could be behind Davis, while Davis didn't get a lot of minutes last year, and got fouled out in 15 mins. I expect who we drafted may spend half the time in D-League first, similar to Siakam, Boucher, and etc.

That's why getting someone like Hinton, Woodard or Reed would take RHJ's role and actually shoot from 2 (maybe not Reed), but would be okay defensively at SF, when OG slides to backup PF.

Psubs · Post #3008 » by **Psubs** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:01 pm

Indeed wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Indeed wrote:
The undraft pool/late 2nd round are less hyped, particularly less emphasize on 3 point shooting. Some of them in Saben Lee, Mane, Marshall are ranked lower because of their 3 point shooting (and few more weaknesses).
I am not surprised if someone at late 2nd round and massively improve his 3 point shooting, he could be a steal in the draft.

I feel like Skylar Mays, Mason Jones are all over on mocks so they are candidates to go undrafted. Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I don't think sign and trade works that way. Clippers are not obligated to take on Johnson / Powell contract. I would rather assume we have to keep Johnson and Powell (since you cannot trade Johnson until he confirms, while Powell contact is pretty bad for teams involving with the 2021 FA class, McCaw is the only contract with value).

PG: VanVleet / Davis / 2nd
SG: Lowry / Powell / Thomas
SF: OG / McCaw / 1st
PF: Siakam / Boucher / Johnson
C: Ibaka / FA / Hernandez

To me, a lot of concern at the backup SF/PF position. In terms of skills, it would be Point skill and Ball Penetration with passing vision.

Powell will opt out but then the Clippers have his Bird rights. Powell is a positive asset in terms of contract and is friends with Kawhi. Wouldn't the Clippers want to have Powell and then use the MLE or just the MLE? Stanley is for roster spot and can be waived. I guess it would essentially be like having Powell for $15 million next year with his rights.

It's like Philly isn't obligated to take back Josh Richardson for S&T Butler.

Psubs · Post #3009 » by **Psubs** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:07 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Psubs wrote:I think the most realistic trade down is with Sacramento.

#29 for #35 and #52. Hall and Hinton!!!

It makes no sense to go from guaranteed control to two non-guaranteed deals. Players of interest around #52 will just say don't draft me.

#29 is worth it for the contract alone.

What about the player we draft at #59 then? :-?

Indeed · Post #3010 » by **Indeed** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:22 pm

Psubs wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Psubs wrote:
I feel like Skylar Mays, Mason Jones are all over on mocks so they are candidates to go undrafted. Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I don't think sign and trade works that way. Clippers are not obligated to take on Johnson / Powell contract. I would rather assume we have to keep Johnson and Powell (since you cannot trade Johnson until he confirms, while Powell contact is pretty bad for teams involving with the 2021 FA class, McCaw is the only contract with value).

PG: VanVleet / Davis / 2nd
SG: Lowry / Powell / Thomas
SF: OG / McCaw / 1st
PF: Siakam / Boucher / Johnson
C: Ibaka / FA / Hernandez

To me, a lot of concern at the backup SF/PF position. In terms of skills, it would be Point skill and Ball Penetration with passing vision.

Powell will opt out but then the Clippers have his Bird rights. Powell is a positive asset in terms of contract and is friends with Kawhi. Wouldn't the Clippers want to have Powell and then use the MLE or just the MLE? Stanley is for roster spot and can be waived. I guess it would essentially be like having Powell for $15 million next year with his rights.

It's like Philly isn't obligated to take back Josh Richardson for S&T Butler.

Until he opts out, he is not a contract anyone chasing 2021 FA would want. Meanwhile, we do not have the luxury to waive a player, as we are almost near the tax. Definitely not something a GM would make assumption in Powell opts out, particularly you never know if another COVID-21 hits, and he prefers to opts in.

And I don't buy the Harrell rumour, more of an agent trying to raise his client value in bringing up other teams. Happen every year with Toronto being used by agents. Furthermore, I think we need a massive upgrade for RHJ, not just someone more athletic without a 3 point shooting.

NotMyKawhi · Post #3011 » by **NotMyKawhi** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 8:38 pm

Psubs wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Psubs wrote:I think the most realistic trade down is with Sacramento.

#29 for #35 and #52. Hall and Hinton!!!

It makes no sense to go from guaranteed control to two non-guaranteed deals. Players of interest around #52 will just say don't draft me.

#29 is worth it for the contract alone.

What about the player we draft at #59 then?

it's better to have longer term 1st round contracts. Especially at 29 where it's so cheap.

if you really want a second in the 50's you can buy it for cheap money or trade up with 59. How many rookies do you really want?

nabbs · Post #3012 » by **nabbs** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:29 pm

I am looking at guys like Sam Merill and Tyshon Alexander.

There are going to be a lot of solid pickups in the second and the undrafted crop. Should be good man

Dalek · Post #3013 » by **Dalek** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 10:44 pm

I am a big believer that scoring at the rim is the most efficient score in basketball and if you have a guard who can do that your team creates better offense because the spacing changes as long as the guard has a passable shot.

I came across this interesting blog post on guards and a new metric "Unassisted Rim Makes per 40 Minutes." UARM is described as self-created around-the-rim shots by a player every 40 minutes.

De'Aaron Fox, Ja Morant, Kyrie Irving, Trae Young, Victor Oladipo, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, CJ McCollum, and Damian Lillard all rated high with this metric while in college.

In this draft there are a few names that stick out: Devon Dotson, Saben Lee, Grant Riller, Kyra Lewis Jr., and Skylar Mays.

Kansas' Devon Dotson had plenty of rim makes this year, but he's only 6'2", had one dunk in 2 years, and has a questionable jumper. I have similar concerns about Saben Lee, though Lee's vertical pop sets him apart a little bit. No 6'2" prospect in my study has close to as many dunks/40 as Lee does.

I don't want you to put all your eggs into the Myles Powell basket, but he's still being undervalued in this class. While Powell's shot selection is brash and efficiency isn't the name of his game, I'd consider selecting him in the early-mid second round.

In my eyes, Grant Riller, Kira Lewis Jr., and Skylar Mays are the three most worthwhile prospects here.

I wrote about Grant Riller a little while ago, so I won't go into too much depth here. There’s an argument against him: he’s an older prospect who played at a small college who won’t provide much value on the defensive end. But if his scoring package doesn’t wow you, I’m not sure whose will. Fun fact: with a stronger supporting cast at Charleston as a Junior, Riller averaged 4.06 UARM/40, 0.55 dunks/40, and shot 46.8% from mid-range.

Kira Lewis Jr. is projected to be selected in the 20’s by some major media sites, and I’m not quite sure why. Lewis doesn’t have the body control and functional strength of Riller (not many do), but in terms of pure speed, nobody in this class can match him.

I question whether or not Kira has what it takes to be THE lead guard on a good NBA team. He has the body of Ja Morant and De'Aaron Fox, but not an ounce of their vertical explosiveness. Regardless, Kira is a lottery-level prospect. Even if he doesn't become a high-volume initiator, his spot-up shooting and first step off the catch will make him a lethal off-ball player.

Let's just run by everyone!

Skylar Mays is a 4-year college player with athletic limitations who possesses an intriguing blend of craftiness and strength. Again, size and shooting matter.

Mays also has the best-looking shooting profile on this list by a sizable margin. He probably won't be a primary guard creator for a starting unit, but I'm in on him as starting secondary creator/bench lead guard

https://wamorrishoops.blogspot.com/2020/10/attempting-to-crack-college-guard-code.html

Riller is looking more and more like the next great mid-major guy who looks like a smart pick at 29. Lewis is a guy I would trade up for, while Mays has to be the favorite at 59 if they go big at 29. Lee is my dark horse prospect at either 29 or 59. He is just too athletic to pass up. His speed and strength remind me a bit of De'Aaron Fox who he rated really close to.

Dalek · Post #3014 » by **Dalek** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 11:23 pm

Psubs wrote: Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Watch on YouTube

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I really like Nate Hinton, this guy has some dog in him. To me, he reminds me more of RHJ with his hustle, on-ball defense and rebounding. The downside is I don't think he is ready to score at an NBA level. This guy will need some G-League time. As a two-way deal he would be a good bet. Not sure he can guard NBA wings at his size.

Please do not trade any 2021 pick. This is the draft we need to trade up in not out of.

HeadtopChunes · Post #3015 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 11:34 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Psubs · Post #3016 » by **Psubs** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 12:01 am

Dalek wrote:
Psubs wrote: Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Watch on YouTube

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I really like Nate Hinton, this guy has some dog in him. To me, he reminds me more of RHJ with his hustle, on-ball defense and rebounding. The downside is I don't think he is ready to score at an NBA level. This guy will need some G-League time. As a two-way deal he would be a good bet. Not sure he can guard NBA wings at his size.

Please do not trade any 2021 pick. This is the draft we need to trade up in not out of.

OMG, I submitted the post before finishing my thought!!!

I meant that as a mid-season started package for Giannis. :lol:

Probably Harrell, Powell, McCaw and 2021 1st pick at the deadline.

Dalek · Post #3017 » by **Dalek** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 12:45 am

Psubs wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Psubs wrote: Even Nate Hinton as an elite rebounder at the wing spot.

I think he's like a bigger Powell with rebounding and better passing. His motor looks elite with a Rodman like nose for rebounding. Quick and decisive moves and can finish with his left as well. If they are trending to go small with bigs, need guards to rebound.

Watch on YouTube

Trade Powell and Stanley to the Clippers for sign and traded Harrell.

PG Lowry - TD - FVV
SG FVV - Thomas/Watson
SF OG - McCaw/Hinton
PF Siakam - Harrell/Boucher
C Ibaka - FA - Dewan/Boucher

At the trade deadline, can bamboozle Harrell with McCaw and 2021 1st pick

I really like Nate Hinton, this guy has some dog in him. To me, he reminds me more of RHJ with his hustle, on-ball defense and rebounding. The downside is I don't think he is ready to score at an NBA level. This guy will need some G-League time. As a two-way deal he would be a good bet. Not sure he can guard NBA wings at his size.

Please do not trade any 2021 pick. This is the draft we need to trade up in not out of.

OMG, I submitted the post before finishing my thought!!!

I meant that as a mid-season started package for Giannis.

Probably Harrell, Powell, McCaw and 2021 1st pick at the deadline.

Okay, I get it for the Giannis package, but I just love that 2021 draft. I think it will be the best draft since the 2018 draft. Maybe it could be as good as the 2003 draft and it will change the whole NBA. There are literally 20 freshman and 10 sophomores for the draft that will be in the first round.

Dalek · Post #3018 » by **Dalek** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 1:03 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Great video on Nnaji really highlighting his quick feet on defense. My only reservation with him is his ability to contest. In the NBA with elite speed and length coming at him, can he really contest shots? He didn't really show well as a rim protector in college, so how would he do in the NBA?

I do trust his work ethic and he seems like a sponge so I think he will have a good career. Size-wise he is similar to Tres Lyles or Dwight Powell. I think Powell is a prefect comparison for him, though I think Powell is a bit bouncier.

Psubs · Post #3019 » by **Psubs** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 2:43 am

Dalek wrote:Okay, I get it for the Giannis package, but I just love that 2021 draft. I think it will be the best draft since the 2018 draft. Maybe it could be as good as the 2003 draft and it will change the whole NBA. There are literally 20 freshman and 10 sophomores for the draft that will be in the first round.

Makes sense. Don't rush the process. :nod:

Watch on YouTube

Maybe he decides to join Jalen Green, Kuminga, Dashien Nix, in the G-League. Wait are they all on the same team? It's like the Fab Five pro edition.

Watch on YouTube

Here he looks like the bigger badder 6'5, 215 lbs swingman. Let's say the Raptors finish around #25 pick. He might be there. I see there is a lot more premium prospects next year.

LoveMyRaps · Post #3020 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 5:57 am

Should we be paying more attention to Yam Madar for our 59th selection?
I know Masai and Bobby got him on their radar:

Read on Twitter

Note: Yam finished the game with 9pts, 4 assists, 2 rebounds, and 2 steals in only 19 minutes of action. He shot 2/3 from the field and 1/1 from deep.

Know he hasn't really been discussed in this thread so here's an excellent in-depth piece on him to get us started:

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2020/3/30/21184310/yam-madar-nba-draft-scouting-report-atlanta-hawks-evaluation-deep-dive

Yam Madar is an interesting prospect.

Defensively, I love what he brings and there’s really not a lot to not love there. I think he’s going to succeed in his career defensively, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he becomes a top-tier defender in Europe for a EuroLeague team. I love the intensity and the pressure he creates in full-court situations — it really makes the defense uncomfortable. There’s a few question marks as to what the zone defense opens up for his ability as a help/secondary defender, but as a one-on-one defender, Madar excels with Hapoel Tel Aviv, especially at age 19.

Obviously since this is a NBA draft scouting report, you have to obviously ask the question: would this defense translate to the NBA? Could he excel defensively there? I think perhaps he could, yes. But defense is not the issue when it comes to Madar — it’s everything else.

The NBA, as we know, prioritizes offense. There’s a job for only a select few that can’t provide offense but provide stout defense, especially when it comes to guards. There are far many more job for guards who can excel offensively who don’t add defense than the reverse.

This puts Madar in a difficult position.

He’s not a good three-point shooter right now, and that’s at least a small problem. He struggles to create for himself off of the dribble, which is also a problem. He struggles to do anything, really, at a high level offensively right now, nothing really stands out. These are all big problems.

From a playmaking point of view, Madar can make some plays but they’re fairly basic, it’s nothing spectacular. He’s not helped by having to run what looks like a pretty poor offensive system that generates plenty average/below average three-point looks that aren’t made and not a ton going toward the rim in terms of pick-and-roll, so I’m willing to give him somewhat of a pass.

Other issues include athleticism — Madar is not necessarily unathletic, but he’s not jumping out of the gym either. He does have some pace on his side, but struggles to utilize this (again, there are some factors that don’t help him when it comes to this).

But the one thing Madar does have going for him is that he is young — turning 20 in December. He also already has a solid role in a league that is pretty competitive and in a professional league, and there’s always something to be said for that. For 19 years old, his foundation is solid.

Watch on YouTube

p.s. Dudes behind the back is super filthy.