Trade Ideas (Part III)

PerkinsFor3 · Post #1321 » by **PerkinsFor3** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:27 am

All I know is Windler will be starting by game 20.

Revenged25 · Post #1322 » by **Revenged25** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:32 pm

jbk1234 wrote:What's the best package Cavs fans would offer for MPJ? This is best and final offer, not a negotiating position.

I think I'd go as high as Garland, Cedi, and No. 5. Or, and Stillwater you're going to want stop reading here, Sexton, Cedi and the Bucks 1st.

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#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

Stillwater · Post #1323 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:11 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:What's the best package Cavs fans would offer for MPJ? This is best and final offer, not a negotiating position.

I think I'd go as high as Garland, Cedi, and No. 5. Or, and Stillwater you're going to want stop reading here, Sexton, Cedi and the Bucks 1st.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I would not give the 5th pick in the draft for Lebron if he had the same back injury at the same age...
I dont think people are understanding how easily this guy could re-herniate and the recovery time is long 1-2 years on avg for athletes. + if it happens twice or more the odds of returning to form again lessen further.
The biggest concern for me is his genetics and his family history suggest the type of root causes for his injury are much easier
to re-herniate. That and he does not play defense full throttle because of the need to be careful all the time.
I think given he is a high bbiq player with elite iso ability and shot making somebody might gamble on him staying healthy but they are not going to give up 2 firsts for him or any former lottery pick and another first. Somebody might give up Windler,McKinie and 5 if they absolutley hate everyone available at 5... but thats it

Revenged25 · Post #1324 » by **Revenged25** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:What's the best package Cavs fans would offer for MPJ? This is best and final offer, not a negotiating position.

I think I'd go as high as Garland, Cedi, and No. 5. Or, and Stillwater you're going to want stop reading here, Sexton, Cedi and the Bucks 1st.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I would not give the 5th pick in the draft for Lebron if he had the same back injury at the same age...
I dont think people are understanding how easily this guy could re-herniate and the recovery time is long 1-2 years on avg for athletes. + if it happens twice or more the odds of returning to form again lessen further.
The biggest concern for me is his genetics and his family history suggest the type of root causes for his injury are much easier
to re-herniate. That and he does not play defense full throttle because of the need to be careful all the time.
I think given he is a high bbiq player with elite iso ability and shot making somebody might gamble on him staying healthy but they are not going to give up 2 firsts for him or any former lottery pick and another first. Somebody might give up Windler,McKinie and 5 if they absolutley hate everyone available at 5... but thats it

He said absolute max we would give not a negotiating position, that's the absolute max I would give. I would honestly give up the #5 in this draft for him because I think his potential is higher than anyone else we can likely get at #5, even with his injury history, but that's really all I would want to give up for him, nothing more, preferably less if that was possible.

Post #1325 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:What's the best package Cavs fans would offer for MPJ? This is best and final offer, not a negotiating position.

I think I'd go as high as Garland, Cedi, and No. 5. Or, and Stillwater you're going to want stop reading here, Sexton, Cedi and the Bucks 1st.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I guess right now I have one of our own future picks, even with protections, as far more valuable than Garland. I'm suggesting that we cut the cord on the kid, just that my current projection on him isn't great.

Post #1326 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:13 pm

PerkinsFor3 wrote:All I know is Windler will be starting by game 20.

I think it's going to depend on his defense, KPJ's development, and who we draft. I'd love to send Cedi back to the bench where he actually adds value, but right now he's the only guard/wing we have whose defense is even passable. Everyone else is a train wreck on that end.

Stillwater · Post #1327 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:43 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I would not give the 5th pick in the draft for Lebron if he had the same back injury at the same age...
I dont think people are understanding how easily this guy could re-herniate and the recovery time is long 1-2 years on avg for athletes. + if it happens twice or more the odds of returning to form again lessen further.
The biggest concern for me is his genetics and his family history suggest the type of root causes for his injury are much easier
to re-herniate. That and he does not play defense full throttle because of the need to be careful all the time.
I think given he is a high bbiq player with elite iso ability and shot making somebody might gamble on him staying healthy but they are not going to give up 2 firsts for him or any former lottery pick and another first. Somebody might give up Windler,McKinie and 5 if they absolutley hate everyone available at 5... but thats it

He said absolute max we would give not a negotiating position, that's the absolute max I would give. I would honestly give up the #5 in this draft for him because I think his potential is higher than anyone else we can likely get at #5, even with his injury history, but that's really all I would want to give up for him, nothing more, preferably less if that was possible.

I mean I guess if the Cavs really like his game (doubtful) and are willing to bring in someone that Denver would be moving because he is the exact opposite of a high character kid that wants to be in the 216 then and only then would they maybe consider trading for him and thats before you factor the trade value with his back injury history more likely to plague him long term than not.

Stillwater · Post #1328 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:48 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:What's the best package Cavs fans would offer for MPJ? This is best and final offer, not a negotiating position.

I think I'd go as high as Garland, Cedi, and No. 5. Or, and Stillwater you're going to want stop reading here, Sexton, Cedi and the Bucks 1st.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I guess right now I have one of our own future picks, even with protections, as far more valuable than Garland. I'm suggesting that we cut the cord on the kid, just that my current projection on him isn't great.

I wouldnt sell on Garland yet he could turn out to be far better than he was year one, I mean right now they would be lucky to get the 22nd from Denver for him. Id rather give him another season and see if he can flip the script and play in the NBA.
But I can understand the temptation and if they would take him alone as the main return piece with no picks then I would take the gamble if they threw in the 22nd.. I would not take MPJ for Garland and picks and I would really struggle with trading the pick for him knowing his mentallity as a defender is bad and hes a accident waiting to happen

Post #1329 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:11 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
#5 and a future pick with some sort of protection. Maybe toss in Cedi as well.

I wouldn't trade Sexton for MPJ unless it was Sexton for MPJ + more as Sexton is easily the better player right now and has shown to consistently be able to at the very least be a high scoring guard with great work ethic. MPJ has barely played and was very inconsistent when he was. Yes he has a great offensive skillset and potential, but he could also easily get hurt or never even come consistent at even a level lower than what got him hyped up during the bubble.

I guess right now I have one of our own future picks, even with protections, as far more valuable than Garland. I'm suggesting that we cut the cord on the kid, just that my current projection on him isn't great.

I wouldnt sell on Garland yet he could turn out to be far better than he was year one, I mean right now they would be lucky to get the 22nd from Denver for him. Id rather give him another season and see if he can flip the script and play in the NBA.
But I can understand the temptation and if they would take him alone as the main return piece with no picks then I would take the gamble if they threw in the 22nd.. I would not take MPJ for Garland and picks and I would really struggle with trading the pick for him knowing his mentallity as a defender is bad and hes a accident waiting to happen

Yeah, I intended to type I'm *not* suggesting we cut the cord on the kid. But people seem to think that because we intend on trying to win this year, things are going to be much improved. I too expect improvement, but I'm holding onto our picks until I actually see significant on-the-court improvement.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to anticipate the number of ways things can go sideways. Drummond could not receive an extensions, get angry, and start playing contract ball. Sexton could revert to a 2-3 assist per game guard, and I know we disagree on this, but him continuing as a starter isn't sustainable if that were to happen. Love could get hurt and miss a big chunk of games. And if you're talking about trading for MPJ, he could get re-injured.

mg · Post #1330 » by mg » Sat Oct 3, 2020 4:55 pm

MPJ is not a feasible option. He is young, cheap, and plays a very valuable position in today's NBA. Denver has absolutely no reason to trade him at this point unless he's damaged goods.

Revenged25 · Post #1331 » by **Revenged25** » Sat Oct 3, 2020 7:16 pm

mg wrote:MPJ is not a feasible option. He is young, cheap, and plays a very valuable position in today's NBA. Denver has absolutely no reason to trade him at this point unless he's damaged goods.

He also plays little defense and his medical history will always be a red flag. Just like Love, MPJ is more valuable to the team that he's on than what another team is willing to give up for him.

Although MPJ has a potentially high future, I originally wanted him over Sexton due to his potential, the fact he plays little defense would be a huge issue for the Cavs as well as that's something that they are sorely missing.

JonFromVA · Post #1332 » by **JonFromVA** » Sun Oct 4, 2020 8:20 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
mg wrote:MPJ is not a feasible option. He is young, cheap, and plays a very valuable position in today's NBA. Denver has absolutely no reason to trade him at this point unless he's damaged goods.

He also plays little defense and his medical history will always be a red flag. Just like Love, MPJ is more valuable to the team that he's on than what another team is willing to give up for him.

Although MPJ has a potentially high future, I originally wanted him over Sexton due to his potential, the fact he plays little defense would be a huge issue for the Cavs as well as that's something that they are sorely missing.

I wouldn't hold his defense against him at this point in his career, but who knows how long he or his brother can stay healthy.

Collin would had looked pretty good coming off the bench for Denver too I imagine.

Stillwater · Post #1333 » by **Stillwater** » Mon Oct 5, 2020 12:36 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
mg wrote:MPJ is not a feasible option. He is young, cheap, and plays a very valuable position in today's NBA. Denver has absolutely no reason to trade him at this point unless he's damaged goods.

He also plays little defense and his medical history will always be a red flag. Just like Love, MPJ is more valuable to the team that he's on than what another team is willing to give up for him.

Although MPJ has a potentially high future, I originally wanted him over Sexton due to his potential, the fact he plays little defense would be a huge issue for the Cavs as well as that's something that they are sorely missing.

I wouldn't hold his defense against him at this point in his career, but who knows how long he or his brother can stay healthy.

Collin would had looked pretty good coming off the bench for Denver too I imagine.

He has an near elite bbiq for his age and the ability to play high level defense with size length and that iq but usually does not which is why I think you can hold it against him.
Him not sacrificing his body is understandable given he is made of glass and I will give him some credit for the effort on defense he showed occasionally in the playoffs which was more than I can say for his normal interest, but he still is not willing to do everything that needs to be done to get stops and that alone makes him a target for offenses and is unlikely to ever change not because he cant but because he wont or if he does he will be back in traction

NYG · Post #1334 » by **NYG** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:52 pm

What are the Cavs 2 biggest needs?

Revenged25 · Post #1335 » by **Revenged25** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:54 pm

NYG wrote:What are the Cavs 2 biggest needs?

Defense and a playmaking wing

Stillwater · Post #1336 » by **Stillwater** » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:51 am

NYG wrote:What are the Cavs 2 biggest needs?

1 finding a franchise level prospect in the draft despite being unlikely and doing that will require ignoring needs as it pertains to current roster struggles and just simply taking the prospect that has the highest upside period even if it means they are being moved in a trade so CLE can get a better positional fit prospect like a multi positional defender but only if they do not believe any of the options at 5th are so much better regardless of need to take said prospect without considerations of current potential core players.
2 high level 4 position defender regardless of current offensive ability and upsides of other options at 5 : this is really only in the situation where they are confident they can win with the current roster and feel adding 1 high level defender will fast forward the process unless of course that same prospect is the one they see as the highest upside available in which case the massive need for defenders and bpa are one in the same/.

Post #1337 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:51 am

Revenged25 wrote:
NYG wrote:What are the Cavs 2 biggest needs?

Defense and a playmaking wing

Also, talent.

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Revenged25 · Post #1338 » by **Revenged25** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:15 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
NYG wrote:What are the Cavs 2 biggest needs?

Defense and a playmaking wing
Also, talent.

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I figured talent was just a given. No one wants an untalented player.

100proof · Post #1339 » by **100proof** » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm

Would cavs be interested in something around Hayward and #14 and 26 for #5 and Salary (Exum, Nance Jr)?

Just gauging value of picks in this draft, and value of Hayward around the league. IMO acquiring Hayward would probably bump your team into the playoffs where they can be a threat. Also team would still have their youth moving forward.

Sexton/Garland
Windler/Porter Jr
Hayward/Osman
Love/Nance Jr
Drummond/Bell

have MLE, #14, #26 to round out roster. But IMO should be a playoff team easily with 60 mill in expiring for the Big free agency summer of 2021.

gflem · Post #1340 » by **gflem** » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47 pm

100proof wrote:Would cavs be interested in something around Hayward and #14 and 26 for #5 and Salary (Exum, Nance Jr)?

Just gauging value of picks in this draft, and value of Hayward around the league. IMO acquiring Hayward would probably bump your team into the playoffs where they can be a threat. Also team would still have their youth moving forward.

Sexton/Garland
Windler/Porter Jr
Hayward/Osman
Love/Nance Jr
Drummond/Bell

have MLE, #14, #26 to round out roster. But IMO should be a playoff team easily with 60 mill in expiring for the Big free agency summer of 2021.

I wouldn't make that move, but if the FO thinks they can compete for a playoff spot (or wants to even) they might think about it. But doesn't Hayward's contract expire after this season? If so, it seems like a bit much to give up for a one year rental. I don't think Hayward would re-sign here, and I really don't think the Cavs are near the point where adding one vet really changes much.