Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[OdomFan]

Does that somehow erase those FACTS or do you really just have no point?! lol

No point there what so ever. Especially considering that he's lost multiple more times in the finals since 2011.

Against the spurs and the warriors where they had 3 or more HOF players who were still playing at a high level .... LBJ has played very well in every finals since 2012

"He played VERY WELL so the lost doesn't matter, so that makes him better than everybody in Basketball HIstory" Sorry but no. I'm not buying it. He jumped around to team after team so that he could try to take the easy way out as much as possible, but still ended up losing when it came down to it before he moved on.

He's on top again for now, but we'll see what happens when this squad falls apart on him. WIl he remain with the Lakers? Or look else where yet again. We'll see. However for now, Goat? Not a chance. He's played Very Well as you said throughout his career in general, but guess what? So did Michael Jordan, Kareem, and every other elite leader in NBA history.

[zimpy27]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

[Brofessor24]

Everything I said is true though. He's a fraud who uses his own player agency to get a competitive advantage over the league. NBA even investigated him for it. He has control over his teammates commissions which is absolutely ****.

You gave your opinion, not facts.

The NBA found no conflict of interest/didn't punish him.

It just means that they couldn't link him financially but its dumb to think that he doesn't have Rich Paul and that agency in his back pocket. Rich Paul owes his whole career to Lebron and will bend over backwards for him. Lebron can even influence other agencies by getting Klutch to offer low commissions and having other player agencies match. Even players not in Klutch can benefit.

Whatever you wanna tell yourself.

The NBA already looked into this.

[FinnTheHuman]

MJ will always have the better narrative. His arch enemies in the Bad Boys which he beat en route for the 1st title, his 3peat into retiring because of the murder of his father, his comeback to get another 3peat, all of his HOF rivals etc. Lebron running to a team with healthy salary situation after ruining cap space of the former team by forcing his FO's to sign win-now players that get washed up after a couple of years which basically makes him seem like a parasite, and having a lot of guys on vet min who deserve a much better contract... not a great narrative at all.

Bill Russell's narrative is still the best. His team won 11 of 13 Finals, beat the two teams he'd ever lost in the playoffs to in subsequent playoffs. He never had significant injuries that caused him to miss games (unless you count winning an Olympic medal in the same season as a championship), while playing tons of minutes. He didn't care about his numbers, in an era where his biggest rival was all about the numbers. He was just about winning where it matters, and did that to a level no one else can touch. How many HOFers does Bill Russell have without doing all that winning, without being the ultimate "win" guy? He came off a better college career, too... led his team to two NCAA championships with a mostly-nothing team (apart from KC Jones).

To paraphrase Bird -- everyone is fighting for #2.

Wasn't Bird the same guy who said that MJ is a god and the best player in the league in '86? God sounds better than GOAT to me, maybe it's God>GOAT>the rest?

I mean, c'mon, 9 out of those 11 rings were in the 50s and 60s, nobody cares about an argument favoring a guy who played versus only 7 different teams to get those 9 rings in NBA's elementary school phase. You shoulda seen my soccer stats when playing vs my classmates, that's some GOAT stuff right there. The rivalries I've formed over the years playing against the same guys from my neighborhood, and sure, beating the only guys who have ever beaten me at some point I'm certain... Oh, you wouldn't believe it!

I'm sorry he didn't play in an era when basketball was filled with talent and a globally most popular sport after soccer, maybe he would've shown he'd be better than all that competition, but I'm sorry, he just can't, life ain't fair.

[knicksNOTslick]

Lebron fans stay wanting to give participation trophies to Lebron like all these Finals appearances mean something. All I see is 4 rings in how many seasons? Jordan achieved 6 rings in less time.

All Lebron has is his longevity, which is admirable and all. And the participation trophies of getting to the Finals. Because his fans want to count them.

[Bigfactsstackz]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I am okay with that. nothing wrong with that. I wonder what people were saying during the Jordan days when Jordan was coming up in the GOAT conversation. Knicks fans probably talking like the LBJ haters here on the forum lol.

[PhilBlackson]

Does that somehow erase those FACTS or do you really just have no point?! lol

No point there what so ever. Especially considering that he's lost multiple more times in the finals since 2011.

Against the spurs and the warriors where they had 3 or more HOF players who were still playing at a high level .... LBJ has played very well in every finals since 2012

1. I said MAVERICKS, not Warriors and it was LeBron who had the 3 HOFs on HIS team that made THEM the overwhelming favorites

2. Again the Heat were the favorites because their 3 HOF players were not just "playing at a high level" lol but at least 2 in their physical primes and with one barely coming out of it (2 of which were considered top 10 players, with LBJ being the top and Bosh still in the top 20) but meanwhile the Spurs core was quite clearly well past their primes that arguably didn't have a single top 10 player at that points of their careers yet again somehow the Heat were obliterated as the favorites off the court in embarrassing fashion.

You can't erase those just because "he played well moving forward" lol those happened and those MAJOR blemishes disqualify him from being GOAT. There's no shame in him being 2nd best ever, he's just not THE best - thats MJ, deal with it.

[E-Balla]

Sure, but he didnt average nearly a triple double on nearly 60% fg. His stats were cute.

Lebron is the goat. Jordan couldnt do these things at 35.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Jordan literally won a ring at 35 hitting one of the biggest shots in NBA history against a team many would argue is one of the best 5 teams to never win a ring.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

The average team in 1998 scored 95.6 ppg. The average team in 2020 scores 111.8 ppg. There were 230 combined ppg in the Finals in 2020 vs 168 combined ppg in the 1998 Finals. It's not MJ's fault teams don't play defense anymore.

[E-Balla]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol

Because a ton of commenters have never watched old games to understand how much the rule changes have led to players having those giant gaudy numbers all the time.

[Homer38]

No point there what so ever. Especially considering that he's lost multiple more times in the finals since 2011.

Against the spurs and the warriors where they had 3 or more HOF players who were still playing at a high level .... LBJ has played very well in every finals since 2012

1. I said MAVERICKS, not Warriors and it was LeBron who had the 3 HOFs on HIS team that made THEM the overwhelming favorites

2. Again the Heat were the favorites because their 3 HOF players were not just "playing at a high level" but at least 2 in their physical primes and with one barely coming out of it but meanwhile the Spurs core was quite clearly well past their primes yet again somehow the Heat were obliterated as the favorites off the court in embarrassing fashion

You can't erase those just because "he played well moving forward" lol those happened and those MAJOR blemishes disqualify him from being GOAT. There's no shame in him being 2nd best ever, he's just not THE best - thats MJ, deal with it.

The 2014 spurs are so underrated....Outside of the 2017 Warriors,the 2014 spurs have been maybe the best teams in the NBA in the last 15 years.

[sfernald]

What will his critics say when he is still winning championships in his 40s?

[knicksNOTslick]

I am okay with that. nothing wrong with that. I wonder what people were saying during the Jordan days when Jordan was coming up in the GOAT conversation. Knicks fans probably talking like the LBJ haters here on the forum lol.

You were probably too young. Knicks fans hated Jordan and the Bulls but there was no debate. He was clearly the GOAT in the 90s. He beat his competition down. 2 3-peats during his prime will do that to you. He didn't let a Jason Terry outplay him and choke in the Finals. This is what LBJ fans don't get. Lebron only has his longevity to compete with Jordan but so many stars won rings during his era. He hardly looks dominant. Finals appearances are participation trophies. You know who made the Finals? The Knicks made it twice in the 90s. The Nets, Pacers, Magic and Thunder made the Finals in the 00s. Nobody cares! But for Lebron, Finals appearances matter to his fans because he comes up so short when compared with Jordan.

[camby23]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol

Because a ton of commenters have never watched old games to understand how much the rule changes have led to players having those giant gaudy numbers all the time.

1984-1989 - 109 ppg

1990-1993: 106 ppg

1994-1996: 101 ppg

1997-2003: 95 ppg

2004: 93 ppg

2005-2015: 99 ppg

2016: 103 ppg

2017-2018: 106 ppg

2018-2020: 111 ppg

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I am okay with that. nothing wrong with that. I wonder what people were saying during the Jordan days when Jordan was coming up in the GOAT conversation. Knicks fans probably talking like the LBJ haters here on the forum lol.

You were probably too young. Knicks fans hated Jordan and the Bulls but there was no debate. He was clearly the GOAT in the 90s. He beat his competition down. 2 3-peats during his prime will do that to you. He didn't let a Jason Terry outplay him and choke in the Finals. This is what LBJ fans don't get. Lebron only has his longevity to compete with Jordan but so many stars won rings during his era. He hardly looks dominant. Finals appearances are participation trophies. You know who made the Finals? The Knicks made it twice in the 90s. The Nets, Pacers, Magic and Thunder made the Finals in the 00s. Nobody cares! But for Lebron, Finals appearances matter to his fans because he comes up so short when compared with Jordan.

ah knicks fans still angry at something.

[Alize]

Maybe, just maybe players today shoot a ton of threes and therefore reach higher scores.

Sure, but he didnt average nearly a triple double on nearly 60% fg. His stats were cute.

Jordan literally won a ring at 35 hitting one of the biggest shots in NBA history against a team many would argue is one of the best 5 teams to never win a ring.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

The average team in 1998 scored 95.6 ppg. The average team in 2020 scores 111.8 ppg. There were 230 combined ppg in the Finals in 2020 vs 168 combined ppg in the 1998 Finals. It's not MJ's fault teams don't play defense anymore.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[zimpy27]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol

Why we comparing players from different eras? lol


League Average TS% during those Jordan years was 54%
League Average TS% during those LeBron years was 57%

So Jordan had an ordinary TS% compared to his era, LeBron had an extraordinary TS% compared to his era.

Better?

[The Explorer]

Jordan did not get to pick his teammates on a near annual basis. Nor did he get to pick his coaches. This manufacturing of titles reduces the worthiness of his accomplishments. No one else in history has had this much advantage as Lebron has in this regard.

[Johnny Bball]

Jordan had a TS% of like 54% for his last 3-peat, aged 32-34

LeBron has a TS% of 64% for his last 3 playoffs at age 32,33,35

Why are we comparing TS from different eras lol

This. Makes no sense. Defense was completely different in what it would allow and so was the offense.

[Official]

The average team in 1998 scored 95.6 ppg. The average team in 2020 scores 111.8 ppg. There were 230 combined ppg in the Finals in 2020 vs 168 combined ppg in the 1998 Finals. It's not MJ's fault teams don't play defense anymore.

Ever heard of the 3 point shot? The 98 Bulls shot 11.7 3 pointers per game at 32% starting two offensively inept players in Rodman and Longley. Defenses were actually trash in the 90s compared to today. Ask your self this question? where would a team like that rank against the defenses of today...They'd be in the lottery.