2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[Saberestar]

There is a difference between Shams delivering insider news and Shams giving his opinion, just like Woj and every other media outlet.

But how in the world is gonna be that info an opinion from Shams??
So you think that he has said those three teams out of nowhere?

He has said "expected" because teams can not talk yet with agents, teams or players...but he knows that those teams are interested in him.

It may not necessarily be an opinion from Shams...and might be his "insider" news that other teams/GMS/agents "expect" the Suns to have interest but I still think it's just speculation from somewhere. The Suns are not going to go out and tell people 'Hey, we're interested in Grant" and they can't talk to him or anyone about him without it being tampering. They play stuff close to the vest. I don't think anyone is leaking anything.

Do you really think they are telling people they are interested in Grant? Besides being against the rules, it doesn't look good to our own players or their trade value.

You are assuming that the Suns leaked the info. Could be an agent, an assistant coach from the Nuggets who is close to Grant...who knows...but what I beliebe is that is true. At least that we are interested in him as a FA.

Shams and Woj are all about official info. They are not spreading made up stuff, they get a lot of info from agents, GMs, players... they are basically the official channel for NBA rumors and news.

[bwgood77]

But how in the world is gonna be that info an opinion from Shams??
So you think that he has said those three teams out of nowhere?

He has said "expected" because teams can not talk yet with agents, teams or players...but he knows that those teams are interested in him.

It may not necessarily be an opinion from Shams...and might be his "insider" news that other teams/GMS/agents "expect" the Suns to have interest but I still think it's just speculation from somewhere. The Suns are not going to go out and tell people 'Hey, we're interested in Grant" and they can't talk to him or anyone about him without it being tampering. They play stuff close to the vest. I don't think anyone is leaking anything.

Do you really think they are telling people they are interested in Grant? Besides being against the rules, it doesn't look good to our own players or their trade value.

You are assuming that the Suns leaked the info. Could be an agent, an assistant coach from the Nuggets who is close to Grant...who knows...but what I beliebe is that is true. At least that we are interested in him as a FA.

Shams and Woj are all about official info. They are not spreading made up stuff, they get a lot of info from agents, GMs, players... they are basically the official channel for NBA rumors and news.

Maybe it is Grant or an agent or an assistant coach for the Nuggets that expects it. It's still speculation from the outside. I'm not saying they are making stuff up..but that they are likely relaying what they heard...some people expect the Suns to be interested. Some have pointed out it could be an agent tactic...could be that too. But someone tells Shams they expect these certain teams to be interested, whether because they really think so or to maybe make one of them, if interested, more eager to talk early or something.

I think the general feeling around the NBA among media, other teams, etc, is that we may be after a starting level PF, however, I think the Suns are happy going with Oubre or Cam as a starter and keeping Saric. Even if they trade Oubre, that leaves Cam and Saric. I don't think they will trade Oubre though.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Suns do have interest, but I don't think because Grant or an agent or another team "expects" it, that makes it for sure true that the Suns in fact, do have interest. I think it's a combination of what I mentioned above and the fact they have or could have cap space...and seem set at the other positions for sure...it just makes common sense....Suns with cap space, Rubio, Booker, Bridges/Oubre/Cam, PF - Open (Saric? RFA), Ayton..that's an outsider slotting Bridges, Oubre and Cam into the 3, or maybe even Bridges at some 2...most probably think of Cam as a bench guy anyway.

Internally we may think of one or more of those guys (Cam/Oubre) as our PFs right now and feel we thrive playing smaller (because we do).

[BobbieL]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

[BobbieL]

No mystery why both Watson and McDontKnowWhatToDoNow are not working

I was a McD apologist for a long time but now the only thing I miss about him is your variations on his name

I was an apologistg way to long but the summer of 2018 was it for me with McDunceCap.

Knowing they were picking Ayton and having the 16, 31, the Miami pick, cap space and expirings .. never mind.. Ariza at 12.01 - are you kidding me!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ugh.

How the hell can the Lakers get CP3? Like is OKC willing to take a big Pu-Pu Platter of trash role players (Green/JaVale/Cook/Avery) just for the big score to be Kuz and a late Lakers 1st in a bad draft? Thats Garbage.....but we have already seen that what Lebron wants Lebron gets.

I'm not even sure the Lakers can get there from a salary matching standpoint.

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[BobbieL]

Ugh.

How the hell can the Lakers get CP3? Like is OKC willing to take a big Pu-Pu Platter of trash role players (Green/JaVale/Cook/Avery) just for the big score to be Kuz and a late Lakers 1st in a bad draft? Thats Garbage.....but we have already seen that what Lebron wants Lebron gets.

I'm not even sure the Lakers can get there from a salary matching standpoint.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

CP3 on the books for 40m
as mentioned above Danny Green Javale McGee and Avery Bradley is 25m - thats not good

The Knicks have much better players to move like Portis, Gibson and Randle.

But again, what will the lux tax be - -I can see some teams being squeezed pretty hard . As if the cap drops, the lux tax penalties will change,

I am ready for some free agent news Adam Silver - -lets get the draft and free agency notification there buddy!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

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[bwgood77]

Ugh.

How the hell can the Lakers get CP3? Like is OKC willing to take a big Pu-Pu Platter of trash role players (Green/JaVale/Cook/Avery) just for the big score to be Kuz and a late Lakers 1st in a bad draft? Thats Garbage.....but we have already seen that what Lebron wants Lebron gets.

I'm not even sure the Lakers can get there from a salary matching standpoint.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

It might be possible if they are able to include KCP in a trade..I know there was something with player options being exercised and then the guy being traded..he may have to approve being traded...seems like this happened in a Pelicans trade a couple years ago.

But it would have to be Green, KCP, Bradley, Javale McGee and Kuzma or something ike that. It would basically leave them with Paul/Caruso/Quinn Cook?/LeBron/AD...Talen Horton-Tucker (who may have to be traded too) and maybe Rondo.

I don't think OKC would care about not really getting anything, but would be happy to get off that contract. I doubt they expect to get value back in a 35 year old Chris Paul making $40 million dollars trade.

[bwgood77]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

Grant just making less because of softer market this summer? Or are you just nostradamus?

I still don't understand "They are pretty much the same player but Oubre will make WAY more" unless it's purely due to free agency timing.

I can understand if the reason is because Oubre is not the same player and can guard more positions, create own shot, or whatever someone's reasoning is, but the "same player but cheaper" argument doesn't make sense unless, again, purely due to timing of when they are free agents and # of teams with cap space.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

Grant just making less because of softer market this summer? Or are you just nostradamus?

I still don't understand "They are pretty much the same player but Oubre will make WAY more" unless it's purely due to free agency timing.

I can understand if the reason is because Oubre is not the same player and can guard more positions, create own shot, or whatever someone's reasoning is, but the "same player but cheaper" argument doesn't make sense unless, again, purely due to timing of when they are free agents and # of teams with cap space.

Yeah I think Grant will be a good indicator of what Oubre will be looking at next season. I also don't think the cap will be much different and while a few more teams will have space I don't think the market is going to be significantly better.

Oubre does have another season to show his worth and if he takes a leap then sure he'll get more.. but if he takes a leap the suns should probably keep him and would be happy to pay a little more.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

Grant just making less because of softer market this summer? Or are you just nostradamus?

I still don't understand "They are pretty much the same player but Oubre will make WAY more" unless it's purely due to free agency timing.

I can understand if the reason is because Oubre is not the same player and can guard more positions, create own shot, or whatever someone's reasoning is, but the "same player but cheaper" argument doesn't make sense unless, again, purely due to timing of when they are free agents and # of teams with cap space.

Of course not Nostradamus man. I've been retired from that for awhile now. And yes, The premise is obviously based on two things:

1- This is Grant's first contract. He's currently sitting at around 9 million. And Oubre is already at around 15 million. Oubre is already on a scale 5 -6 million higher than Grant's current payscale. And unfortunately, This summer is not that saturated with cap flexibility. So it's only logical to assume that the increased salary disparity will be in part due to their current payscale.

2- ( Timing!) As you yourself mentioned, The market this summer is obviously going to be softer and more shallow due to a diminished cap revenue and economic cap restrictions/ implications. As well as very few teams with actual significant cap flexibility to bid against. Yet next summer, The majority of teams are purposely positioned to have large chunks of cap space to offer. Even a fair number of small market teams will have significant cap space to offer free agents, And the larger pool of competition may very likely drive the bids up for players that otherwise wouldn't command such bids. Is it really that unreasonable to consider the possibility of Oubre getting a 5-6 million increase in a heavily anticipated saturated market? I mean not that I personally think Oubre is worth anything over 15-16 million tops personally, But when some of these teams that miss out on the obligatory big names in 21', Who do you think they'll target next? Oubre is most likely in that 2nd- 3rd tier honestly. It's in that likelihood that I anticipate him getting much more than Grant ( timing as you said). I hope that clarifies my post better man. Watch what Grant signs for and then what Oubre signs for in 21' free agency. And then grade my prognostication skills.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2424661/suns-offseason-questions-is-an-effort-made-to-create-max-cap-space/

[cberry78]

Ugh.

How the hell can the Lakers get CP3? Like is OKC willing to take a big Pu-Pu Platter of trash role players (Green/JaVale/Cook/Avery) just for the big score to be Kuz and a late Lakers 1st in a bad draft? Thats Garbage.....but we have already seen that what Lebron wants Lebron gets.

I'm not even sure the Lakers can get there from a salary matching standpoint.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

CP3 on the books for 40m
as mentioned above Danny Green Javale McGee and Avery Bradley is 25m - thats not good

The Knicks have much better players to move like Portis, Gibson and Randle.

But again, what will the lux tax be - -I can see some teams being squeezed pretty hard . As if the cap drops, the lux tax penalties will change,

I am ready for some free agent news Adam Silver - -lets get the draft and free agency notification there buddy!!

Can the Fakers somehow trade their FRP this year (+ misc assets) for the Warriors $17mil trade exception? That, plus the 3 above, would theoretically put them at $42 mil.

I mean the League has let LBJ get away with some shady [poop] over the years (e.g. tampering, tampering again, and, uh, tampering some more, etc.), so is this too far out of the realm of possibilities?

[bwgood77]

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

Grant just making less because of softer market this summer? Or are you just nostradamus?

I still don't understand "They are pretty much the same player but Oubre will make WAY more" unless it's purely due to free agency timing.

I can understand if the reason is because Oubre is not the same player and can guard more positions, create own shot, or whatever someone's reasoning is, but the "same player but cheaper" argument doesn't make sense unless, again, purely due to timing of when they are free agents and # of teams with cap space.

Yeah I think Grant will be a good indicator of what Oubre will be looking at next season. I also don't think the cap will be much different and while a few more teams will have space I don't think the market is going to be significantly better.

Oubre does have another season to show his worth and if he takes a leap then sure he'll get more.. but if he takes a leap the suns should probably keep him and would be happy to pay a little more.

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Yeah, I don't see how the season could make that much more, unless they can have almost full capacity and a nearly a full season, but that's not going to happen.

Even this past year, we only missed the final month of the season and arenas were not down at all until then...so we had 5 months of full capacity. Of course the playoff revenue is a miss, but that is only so many teams and games. And they still got their tv revenue, despite ratings, since those contracts with the networks are set..that just hurt TNT and ESPN...won't be able to command as much for ads on NBA games next year.

[bwgood77]

They're basically two sides of the same coin! Oubre is the offensive talent, And Grant is the defensive talent. Neither have a complete game, If you could just put the two together, You'd have a really awesome player. But again, One is offense, And the other is defense. Both have some reasonable potential to expand their games, But have yet to accomplish this next step! We really just need to prioritize whichever player best compliments our core starters!

Oubre has the advantage of chemistry and being a fan favorite. And Grant has an immenent salary advantage, As he'll be making much less on his first big deal than what Oubre will bid in 2021 free agency. So again, it really just depends upon the pricetag we're willing to commit to for Oubre, And our front offices' direction and strategy for our team.

Grant just making less because of softer market this summer? Or are you just nostradamus?

I still don't understand "They are pretty much the same player but Oubre will make WAY more" unless it's purely due to free agency timing.

I can understand if the reason is because Oubre is not the same player and can guard more positions, create own shot, or whatever someone's reasoning is, but the "same player but cheaper" argument doesn't make sense unless, again, purely due to timing of when they are free agents and # of teams with cap space.

Of course not Nostradamus man. I've been retired from that for awhile now. And yes, The premise is obviously based on two things:

1- This is Grant's first contract. He's currently sitting at around 9 million. And Oubre is already at around 15 million. Oubre is already on a scale 5 -6 million higher than Grant's current payscale. And unfortunately, This summer is not that saturated with cap flexibility. So it's only logical to assume that the increased salary disparity will be in part due to their current payscale.

2- ( Timing!) As you yourself mentioned, The market this summer is obviously going to be softer and more shallow due to a diminished cap revenue and economic cap restrictions/ implications. As well as very few teams with actual significant cap flexibility to bid against. Yet next summer, The majority of teams are purposely positioned to have large chunks of cap space to offer. Even a fair number of small market teams will have significant cap space to offer free agents, And the larger pool of competition may very likely drive the bids up for players that otherwise wouldn't command such bids. Is it really that unreasonable to consider the possibility of Oubre getting a 5-6 million increase in a heavily anticipated saturated market? I mean not that I personally think Oubre is worth anything over 15-16 million tops personally, But when some of these teams that miss out on the obligatory big names in 21', Who do you think they'll target next? Oubre is most likely in that 2nd- 3rd tier honestly. It's in that likelihood that I anticipate him getting much more than Grant ( timing as you said). I hope that clarifies my post better man. Watch what Grant signs for and then what Oubre signs for in 21' free agency. And then grade my prognostication skills.

OK, timing then. Sometimes it sounded like if they were free agents in the same summer that people who thought they were similar players still felt like Oubre would make a lot more money. I think he will due to market. I have no idea on Grant...I don't really watch him that closely. He doesn't seem like a high dollar type player, though neither does Oubre for that matter.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm not even sure the Lakers can get there from a salary matching standpoint.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

CP3 on the books for 40m
as mentioned above Danny Green Javale McGee and Avery Bradley is 25m - thats not good

The Knicks have much better players to move like Portis, Gibson and Randle.

But again, what will the lux tax be - -I can see some teams being squeezed pretty hard . As if the cap drops, the lux tax penalties will change,

I am ready for some free agent news Adam Silver - -lets get the draft and free agency notification there buddy!!

Can the Fakers somehow trade their FRP this year (+ misc assets) for the Warriors $17mil trade exception? That, plus the 3 above, would theoretically put them at $42 mil.

I mean the League has let LBJ get away with some shady [poop] over the years (e.g. tampering, tampering again, and, uh, tampering some more, etc.), so is this too far out of the realm of possibilities?

No you can not trade a trade exemption and even if you could you can not combine a trade exemption with players in a deal. For instance the warriors TE is like $17mil, they can't use that to trade for a player who makes even a penny more than the TE even if they send out other players in the deal.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/transaction-moratorium-to-be-lifted-prior-to-2020-nba-draft/

the midst of an unprecedented offseason, there are a number of scenarios being considered by the league as they attempt to re-establish a schedule and a sense of normalcy to the NBA after the Coronavirus pandemic turned everything on it’s head.

One of the few aspects of the offseason that can actually be said to be set in stone is the league’s position on the transaction moratorium. ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reports that “the transaction moratorium will be lifted before the draft,” which is currently scheduled for Nov. 18.

"There is much unknown to the offseason but one thing team executives confirmed to ESPN is that the transaction moratorium will be lifted before the draft."


The transaction moratorium effectively prevents any NBA teams from altering their roster through signings, trades and the exercising of player options. However, it does allow them to complete transactions with rookies, restricted free agents and free agents they sign to minimum contracts.

Interestingly, as the transaction moratorium period typically lasts from Jul. 1 – Jul. 6 during a regular NBA schedule, it usually takes place after the draft (which is normally held in late June). With the moratorium to be lifted prior to the draft, teams will now be able to retool their team with current NBA players before attempting to supplement their roster through the NBA Draft.

In effect, team needs and their interest in certain prospects could change by the time the draft takes place. With what’s already been a whirlwind draft process for the next set of players hoping to enter the league, there are now even more changes for them to overcome.

[Frank Lee]

A lot of thought going into the OObs next deal. The market is going to bare it out. He plays good, he’ll get paid.... he plays really good and is oobstramental in a solid season run, then he gets paid by us. I guess if you gotta move him for a tasty, sweeten the pot with at least a different position..... and not add a doobleganger. No risk almost win win move keeping him tho. Even if he tanks it or pulls up lamer... his deal falls of the books. The two other outcomes are just fine. He’s rollin 30 mins a night for me.

[thamadkant]

I like Grant but is he has that much different from Oubre
Also, this means you are basically taking yourself out of the 2021 offseason - which could have some good talent

So the next question I see is what 2G could be used to get Oubre as Grant, Bridges and Cam with maybe bringing back SAric for the 4/5 off the bench would be fine.

I mean, whatever helps the team I am good with. I just maybe don't see the difference from Oubre to Grant. Unless they feel they can lock in Grant now for a decent deal instead of trying to fit Oubre in a year later and whatever he may want.

Oubre is better overall than Grant... just that Grant fits in better with Booker, Rubio and Ayton core.... because he is like Bridges and Johnson... he plays defense and a catch and shoot player....
Oubre's weakness is that he is tunnel vision and would compete with Booker for taking key shots when they're both on... wouldnt be a bad idea but he takes dumb shots. If Jackson was criticized for taking dumb shots Oubre also deserves to be called for that.

AND.... Oubre moving to the bench as 6th man may not go well for him and he will leave once his contract is up... Suns lose him for nothing.

So signing Grant and getting him for 4 years... at the same or slightly lower salary than Oubre... and trading Oubre for assets... would be beneficial to the Suns NOW.