SotD: Pascal versus Playoff and Non-Playoff teams

[VanWest82]

Lol click bait. We all know Siakam has to get better against good teams. I honestly think we should stop pigeon holing him as a half court first option and just make him go back to the opportunistic scorer he was behind Kawhi. Yeah, we have no Kawhi but I really hate seeing Siakam jack up bricks behind the 3 point line like he’s Paul George

We did kind of do this eventually,,,or Siakam did this to himself depending how you look at it.

I don't disagree with getting Siakam reps as the first option last year. Setting that expectation after Kawhi left forced him to work on a different skill set and expand his game. Norm was the only other guy on the roster who could've done it for a full 82 only he didn't/doesn't have the play making chops to make it work. NBA offenses almost always function better with a set hierarchy.

Anyways, now we have a better idea of his limitations and can use that info to better build moving forward. And we have a more well rounded Siakam despite his bubble performance.

[baller16]

We have to look at his open shot FG% vs playoff and non-playoff teams to know if he's really out there bricking easy shots or actually getting shut down by better defensive teams

[Steelo Green]

Do that stats on this pre injury.

His stats vs non playoff teams vs playoff teams, but before he got hurt.

Id be very interested to see those stats, because post injury he wasn't right. He picked it up a bit post all star break, but then after the suspension and in the bubble obviously he was crap.

My whole thing is, If pre injury siakam is something we can expect moving forward, which i think is the hope, (and it wasnt a small sample size so im optimistic), then how did THAT version of siakam do vs playoff teams.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

This was from Reddit from Feb:

Vs. East playoff teams (13 G): 20.4/9.0/2.9 on 38.5/26.9/79.0 (46.6 TS%)

Vs. West playoff teams (7 G): 22.7/6.6/4.4 on 42.8/27.7/73.3 ( 50.3 TS%)

Vs. Non-Playoff teams (22 G): 25.4/7.0/3.4 on 50.8/42.6/82.8 (61.8 TS%)

So yeah this isn’t a new thing.

And those saying he “drops off which is normal” it’s not to this degree. He falls off a cliff.

[Basketball_Jones]

Nobody even addressed the 'wide open misses' in my other thread. Why Pascal all of a sudden lost his touch this season.

I’d say volume, fatigue, and more above the break and elbow attempts. Though if his corner percentages on wide open attempts dropped drastically as well, we may have to also throw in other reasons.

[God Squad]

Nobody even addressed the 'wide open misses' in my other thread. Why Pascal all of a sudden lost his touch this season.

$130 Million Reasons.

Spoiler:

[bluerap23]

Do that stats on this pre injury.

His stats vs non playoff teams vs playoff teams, but before he got hurt.

Id be very interested to see those stats, because post injury he wasn't right. He picked it up a bit post all star break, but then after the suspension and in the bubble obviously he was crap.

My whole thing is, If pre injury siakam is something we can expect moving forward, which i think is the hope, (and it wasnt a small sample size so im optimistic), then how did THAT version of siakam do vs playoff teams.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

This was from Reddit from Feb:

Vs. East playoff teams (13 G): 20.4/9.0/2.9 on 38.5/26.9/79.0 (46.6 TS%)

Vs. West playoff teams (7 G): 22.7/6.6/4.4 on 42.8/27.7/73.3 ( 50.3 TS%)

Vs. Non-Playoff teams (22 G): 25.4/7.0/3.4 on 50.8/42.6/82.8 (61.8 TS%)

So yeah this isn’t a new thing.

And those saying he “drops off which is normal” it’s not to this degree. He falls off a cliff.

Last years playoffs (thus vs. playoff teams)

24G: 19/7/3 on 47/28/76

I am happy with that. This team still needs a number one option on offence, but we have an excellent number 2 that is also an elite defender.

[Steelo Green]

Do that stats on this pre injury.

His stats vs non playoff teams vs playoff teams, but before he got hurt.

Id be very interested to see those stats, because post injury he wasn't right. He picked it up a bit post all star break, but then after the suspension and in the bubble obviously he was crap.

My whole thing is, If pre injury siakam is something we can expect moving forward, which i think is the hope, (and it wasnt a small sample size so im optimistic), then how did THAT version of siakam do vs playoff teams.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

This was from Reddit from Feb:

Vs. East playoff teams (13 G): 20.4/9.0/2.9 on 38.5/26.9/79.0 (46.6 TS%)

Vs. West playoff teams (7 G): 22.7/6.6/4.4 on 42.8/27.7/73.3 ( 50.3 TS%)

Vs. Non-Playoff teams (22 G): 25.4/7.0/3.4 on 50.8/42.6/82.8 (61.8 TS%)

So yeah this isn’t a new thing.

And those saying he “drops off which is normal” it’s not to this degree. He falls off a cliff.

Last years playoffs (thus vs. playoff teams)

24G: 19/7/3 on 47/28/76

I am happy with that. This team still needs a number one option on offence, but we have an excellent number 2 that is also an elite defender.

54TS is below average league efficiency

[bluerap23]

This was from Reddit from Feb:

Vs. East playoff teams (13 G): 20.4/9.0/2.9 on 38.5/26.9/79.0 (46.6 TS%)

Vs. West playoff teams (7 G): 22.7/6.6/4.4 on 42.8/27.7/73.3 ( 50.3 TS%)

Vs. Non-Playoff teams (22 G): 25.4/7.0/3.4 on 50.8/42.6/82.8 (61.8 TS%)

So yeah this isn’t a new thing.

And those saying he “drops off which is normal” it’s not to this degree. He falls off a cliff.

Last years playoffs (thus vs. playoff teams)

24G: 19/7/3 on 47/28/76

I am happy with that. This team still needs a number one option on offence, but we have an excellent number 2 that is also an elite defender.

54TS is below average league efficiency

Now you are straight up trolling.

[Steelo Green]

Last years playoffs (thus vs. playoff teams)

24G: 19/7/3 on 47/28/76

I am happy with that. This team still needs a number one option on offence, but we have an excellent number 2 that is also an elite defender.

54TS is below average league efficiency

Now you are straight up trolling.

I am straight up trolling by saying his TS in last years playoffs was below league average efficiency?

You do know that against Philly and Milwaukee, Pascal was terrible right?

I love opinions that are paraded as fact. Yes, Pascal was okay in last years playoffs, good in the finals, but overall he was just okay.

Or do you not know what leage average efficiency is? And for reference before you say efficiency dips in the PO, league efficiency was 55.1% in the playoffs last year which is about the same as the reg season. One percent seems small but when you consider a star player is the only doing it, then you know you have issues especially considering he wasn't the focal point of the offense.

PPG does not mean good if seen outside of a vacuum.

[sidsid]

At the beginning of the year Pascal would practice his 3 zone scoring (pull ups, step backs, faders, turnarounds) from everywhere on the court against bad teams. All the stuff he was working on in the offseason was tested out there. And he looked phenomenal. Hitting shots we had no idea he could make. That's where we all saw the ceiling get higher.

He did this against teams that he could have just ripped to shreds with his drives and post ups. I still remember the Bulls game where he did 3 straight turn around jumpers on a guy he could have just turned around and layed it up on. Because it was practice.

But against the good teams, that "practice" wasn't part of the gameplan even though that's when he needed to take those shots to be effective the most. He basically just took pull up/step back threes or tried to force it to the basket against Giannis and the like.

I think confidence played a part in his regression at finishing around the basket after that. He stopped diversifying his game and that's when he got stuck in that rut. Forcing the same couple predictable moves for the rest of the year.

That's an easy thing to fix next year. Just give Pascal the green light to shoot. Hunt for open shots, not dogged attempts to get to the basket. Get better at that aspect of the game. That's where he showed he could be a star.

[team edward]

This to be expected in his development.

[Syd-TK3]

The main positives for Siakam are that he had arguably his best game all year against the Jazz before the break.
So it's more than likely the 3 months off that ruined him

[HiJiNX]

He gonna be fine

[ReggieSlater]

If you consider his poor performance in the playoffs last year, there's no doubt that the numbers will be bad when looking at all games against playoff teams. He played great at times last year in the playoffs. Playing with a player of Kawhi's talent might have spoiled him, and becoming a bigger focal point was a transition for him. Having other players step into bigger roles and adding more talent should alleviate this. He'll be fine.

[metafisical]

I wish we didn't give him a max contract until he showed more consistent results. If only his contract were expiring this off-season, then I think he would have received a more reasonable extension than his current one.

[LoveMyRaps]

54TS is below average league efficiency

Now you are straight up trolling.

I am straight up trolling by saying his TS in last years playoffs was below league average efficiency?

You do know that against Philly and Milwaukee, Pascal was terrible right?

Against Philly - Siakam had 29 in game 1, 21 in game 2, and 20 in game 3 in which he suffered a CALF CONTUSION. A calf contusion would keep you out for weeks during the regular season, it's no soft or minor injury. He finished the series averaging 19.4ppg, 6.4rpg, 2apg, and 2spg. All this while being guarded by three of the best defenders in the league - Mainly Embiid but Simmons and Butler at times too.

Against Bucks - He struggled. Since the Philly series went the distance he had no real time to rest his calf and fully recover. His primary defender was arguably the best defender in the league in Giannis. Finished the series averaging 15/7/2/2/1. Again far from terrible.

So yes, you are trolling. Constantly talking sh*t about our players. Non-stop...

[Steelo Green]

Now you are straight up trolling.

I am straight up trolling by saying his TS in last years playoffs was below league average efficiency?

You do know that against Philly and Milwaukee, Pascal was terrible right?

Against Philly - Siakam had 29 in game 1, 21 in game 2, and 20 in game 3 in which he suffered a CALF CONTUSION. A calf contusion would keep you out for weeks during the regular season, it's no soft or minor injury. He finished the series averaging 19.4ppg, 6.4rpg, 2apg, and 2spg. All this while being guarded by three of the best defenders in the league - Mainly Embiid but Simmons and Butler at times too.

Against Bucks - He struggled. Since the Philly series went the distance he had no real time to rest his calf and fully recover. His primary defender was arguably the best defender in the league in Giannis. Finished the series averaging 15/7/2/2/1. Again far from terrible.

So yes, you are trolling. Constantly talking sh*t about our players. Non-stop...

Lol.

Don’t blame the calf contusion when he was good in the finals. Can’t say he didn’t get rest and then he was a lot better in the finals.

Also show me the advanced stats. Not the raw stats. Or shall we forever do the Demar analysis.

This is getting bad guys. Come on. Be better.

[HiJiNX]

I am straight up trolling by saying his TS in last years playoffs was below league average efficiency?

You do know that against Philly and Milwaukee, Pascal was terrible right?

Against Philly - Siakam had 29 in game 1, 21 in game 2, and 20 in game 3 in which he suffered a CALF CONTUSION. A calf contusion would keep you out for weeks during the regular season, it's no soft or minor injury. He finished the series averaging 19.4ppg, 6.4rpg, 2apg, and 2spg. All this while being guarded by three of the best defenders in the league - Mainly Embiid but Simmons and Butler at times too.

Against Bucks - He struggled. Since the Philly series went the distance he had no real time to rest his calf and fully recover. His primary defender was arguably the best defender in the league in Giannis. Finished the series averaging 15/7/2/2/1. Again far from terrible.

So yes, you are trolling. Constantly talking sh*t about our players. Non-stop...

Lol.

Don’t blame the calf contusion when he was good in the finals. Can’t say he didn’t get rest and then he was a lot better in the finals.

Also show me the advanced stats. Not the raw stats. Or shall we forever do the Demar analysis.

This is getting bad guys. Come on. Be better.

What’s the point of starting a debate that you have no intentions on budging on? You clearly have a stance that you’re not willing to revise regardless of feedback.

I mean, Siakam was bad against playoff teams and in particular against star players this past season. He struggled in the second half of the Philly series and the Bucks series. But what’s the context??? That’s the part that you’re not leaving space for. Going into this season, it would have been a miracle if Pascal was successful in his role this year considering he’s a guy who started playing organized basketball when most of us were graduating high school, a guy who has very recently developed every professional basketball skill he has, and most importantly, a guy who has never been a first option on offence in his life, at any level. EVER. And his first shot at it happened in the most elite league in the world on a defending champion.

Like I’ve been saying, give the guy another year or two to make your judgment about him as a first option. This year, for a variety of reasons, is a horrible measuring stick for what he will do in the prime of his career.

[Chandan]

He is a proverbial can crusher. Feasting on the poor, and putting over the real.

Several people noted how he rarely had a good performance against a good teams in the regular season and knew the likelihood would be he'd struggle in the playoffs. He becomes a 3-pt lotto machine against good teams, if those aren't falling for him on a high clip on a given night, he was guaranteed to be bad that game.

The mere effort of opposing teams running back and playing actual transition defense against him shuts down a significant portion of how he gets into rhythm in games. And that opposing defensive effort will be there in the playoffs. In the set half-court he is predictable because he has rudimentary tools in the his bag that he is comfortable using, so it translates into Jerami Grant with a green light allowed to occasionally ISO on a mismatch.

A very fair assessment. but Jeremy Grant comparison is a bit harsh. As far as I can tell Pascal has a really solid, close to elite back to the basket game. He is really like a weaker Bosh in that he is still fairly impossible to guard in single coverage (unless you are Marcus smart) . It's when teams start game planning and sending in an extra body things get disarray for them. I think if it's comfort level he needs to grow he will get plenty of chances in Toronto. I believe he can still improve a lot because the physical tools are there, even if he does seem to lack explosiveness.

[Dalek]

Pascal played extremely well during the Championship run in 2019 and was a better scorer in in times when Kawhi was out.

He came into the 2019-20 season and he was a high level player averaging 25 PPG until December. He then injured his groin Dec 19 and sat out until January 12. I think that injury derailed him because he could not train and maintain himself like he normally could and then it became a psychological battle to manage the defensive pressure he was getting.

The Bubble it was obvious he didn't train for 3 months and he was out of rhythm and likely out of sorts because of world events. Siakam was in a funk and he could not get out of it from the offensive side. On defense he was still pretty great, but he was in his own head by the Boston series.

My feeling is that Siakam is a gym rat that trains hard to make the most of his abilities. It is no wonder Rico Hines showers him with praise because he is such a hard worker and a model of excellence. However, when an injury or a weird COVID lockdown prevents him from maintaining himself he can easily fall out of rhythm.

I'd give him a break since this was his first year as a primary option and he has lots more to give. It is just a matter of watching film and figuring out what shots are good to take and when he should be looking to move the ball and trust his teammates. To me, he needs to get more easy buckets early on before testing his jumper.

I always say he should be focused on driving more and getting those low screens (similar to what Thies sets for Tatum when he attacks the basket). Pascal has to finish through contact way too much. Getting a screener like Montrezl Harrell or Derrick Favors would make life easies for Pascal. Even Poelt would be great in that role if they could sign him.