OT Election Thread

[MrFortune3]

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards.

Nixon kinda did, losing in 1960 as incumbent VP, then winning the Presidency in his 1968 comeback. Not the same thing, of course, but somewhat in that spirit. But ultimately the comparison fails because Nixon while running as a conventional politician while Trump lost while running as the leader of a personality movement. Trump is like no other President, so history isn't a very useful guide.

It's also worth noting we are speaking about ancient history here. In the last 24 years, all incumbents outside of Trump have won reelection. So this is not like something unknown. Biden himself has run for president 3 times. The first two times he didn't even get a delegate. Now he's president.

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

[MrFortune3]

in a game i wouldn't ordinarily care about, for some reason i find myself wanting the bulldogs to beat the gators...

Oh you ruthless

[MrFortune3]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

His base will die down after he no longer has the office of President and Fox News to bolster his nonsense.
Eventually they will feel like the chick that drunkenly slept with the 10 but woke up to a 2 with Herpes.

[dice]

Nixon kinda did, losing in 1960 as incumbent VP, then winning the Presidency in his 1968 comeback. Not the same thing, of course, but somewhat in that spirit. But ultimately the comparison fails because Nixon while running as a conventional politician while Trump lost while running as the leader of a personality movement. Trump is like no other President, so history isn't a very useful guide.

It's also worth noting we are speaking about ancient history here. In the last 24 years, all incumbents outside of Trump have won reelection. So this is not like something unknown. Biden himself has run for president 3 times. The first two times he didn't even get a delegate. Now he's president.

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

[Mech Engineer]

In regards to 2024... yes yes, I know it’s early, but it’s a Bulls board (where we talk about next year’s draft before this one’s happened)...

I have a hunch the GOP secures Texas in the polls next time with a Texan 2024 candidate. Not a VP, but a presidential nominee. If that state actually turns blue, the GOP is done for, so I expect they will go back to the drawing boards and think Texas. People have to understand that Texans didn’t like Trump, anybody from NYC — they were just GOP-lifers. And if that happens, they probably get AZ back in one move.

On that note, I also hope the Democrats and pollsters don’t ever predict Texas to lean blue again, until pigs fly and they actually officially call their electoral votes blue. That was an unnecessary dose of optimism going into last Tuesday.

People talk of liberals moving to Texas from the West/North. There are also Republicans and conservatives from California/ NY moving because of taxes, lifestyle etc...

It takes time to turn blue. Lots of Hispanics, African-Americans, Asian-Americans voted for Trump because of how they feel about business opportunities or identifying with other things.

As someone who moved from Illinois to Texas, i can tell it's easier to do business here.

[MrFortune3]

More to the point, candidates who lose re-election bids, never factor in afterwards.

Nixon kinda did, losing in 1960 as incumbent VP, then winning the Presidency in his 1968 comeback. Not the same thing, of course, but somewhat in that spirit. But ultimately the comparison fails because Nixon while running as a conventional politician while Trump lost while running as the leader of a personality movement. Trump is like no other President, so history isn't a very useful guide.

I mean, you are certainly accurate with that part. Trump is unlike anything we have ever seen as a President.

[dice]

Biden is a terrible candidate. He literally won by hiding in his basement and not saying anything. There is no real mandate or plan. He's just going to write some weak executive orders.

Yeah everyone is using this as some sort of proof that Biden was the right move and that it's why the DNC has to keep moving towards the right and keep pushing "moderate" candidates.

Bullsh*t. They did absolutely awful considering the wide open slam dunk this should have been. Their down ballot performance was absolutely pathetic too. Just a liiiiitle bit more competent voter supression and all the swing states they barely won are going to Trump.

The Dems are pathetic and they will just keep losing with their garbage ass "electable" candidates.

you and 'the stig' are just so far off the mark with this take it's incredible. first of all, the DNC does NOT keep "moving towards the right." fake news. more and more progressive candidates are running, and the party platform has quite plainly moved to the left in the past few years. just not as fast as people like you want it to and not as fast as the birther party has been moving to the right. the party is more liberal than it has EVER been. the facts are out there, but feel free to ignore them. doesn't make you much better than the other side

many are arguing right now that the party didn't do as well as they should have in this election BECAUSE they catered too much to the left wing rather than adhere to the tried and true methodology of actually WINNING EFFING ELECTIONS. if you think that bernie sanders, for example, would have done markedly better than biden, you're grossly deluded

more extreme candidates simply don't tend to do as well appealing to moderate electorates. that's just political science 101

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/01/06/progressive-democrats-bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren

i've said it time and time again: the period of most progressive accomplishment in american history was when a bold, practical leader (FDR) had a huge majority of MODERATE DEMOCRATS in congress. the most moderate democratic congress in history, actually. and FDR wasn't a liberal on the order of a bernie sanders either. he just got a lot done that needed to be done...because he had a lot of help




speaking of FDR, please for the love of god give me the name of a democratic president since then who you wouldn't consider to be a moderate. because it sure seems to me that by your definition JFK, clinton and obama were all "garbage ass electable candidates"

why did obama not get a "medicare for all who want it" public option? because he didn't have quite enough help in congress. simple as that. the alternative was the "nuclear option" of eliminating the filibuster on all legislation. no senate majority in history has been bold enough to go that far. i was hoping the dems would take the senate and do just that this time around, but instead we're gonna be subjected to at least 2 more years of birther obstruction

[Jvaughn]

There is a lot of talk about the need to "heal" right now. But are democrats supposed to just forget about all the insults and injustices they had to suffer at the hands of Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell the past 4 years? When has a president ever gone around calling the speaker of the house, the person 3rd in line to the presidency, a nickname like "Crazy Nancy"? Or said about his political opponent "the worst candidate in the history of the country"? Or the fact that the senate went back on their word 4 years ago, and went ahead and put another justice on the court less than 2 weeks before an election? Or stacked the courts at all levels with their judges, after refusing to act on Obama's nominees? We have to live with those actions going forward for a long time.

The republicans need to pay a price for their enabling of Donald Trump. They had the opportunity to rein him in, and put a brake on some of his worst tendencies. And aside from Mitt Romney, most of them failed to do so, and instead supported and encouraged him, at the cost of all the damage to the fabric of our society, the damage to our alliances across the globe, that Trumpism has brought about.

If there is healing to be done, it has to be the GOP that extends the olive branch first, and issues some kind of mea culpa over the last 4 years and what went on. And I don't see that happening.

Dems have to take the high road. It will serve no purpose to try and get some "get back" on the GOP. It will do more harm than good when election time rolls around in 4 years.
They will end up alienating voters in a similar way to how Trump's administration has. Heal the nation, make it less divided and stay on message.

The GOP did everything they could to divide the country, yet they still held the senate, picked up seats in the house, and lost the White House by less than 100K votes. They aren't afraid to step on someone when they're down. They rammed Amy Coney's nomination down the nation's throat even when a majority thought it wasn't right. Lindsay Graham was still re-elected easily. So was Mitch McConnell.

If the GOP wants to mend fences, let's see them agree to expand the court or agree to term limits for the court, or remove Coney and let Biden pick his own nominee. That would show they are willing to "take the high road", too.

I definitely agree with this. And this was my issue with the Dems during the first half of Obama's first term. They were too nice, and didn't want to ruffle feathers and didn't get half of the things done they should've. And in the midterms they lost the majority they had. For the last four years the Republicans did whatever they wanted without even attempting to be bipartisan. They didn't care about being nice or doing "the right thing." If the Democrats want to keep power or eventually take over the Senate, they need to get the progressive agenda pushed and bipartisanship be damned.

[MrFortune3]

It's also worth noting we are speaking about ancient history here. In the last 24 years, all incumbents outside of Trump have won reelection. So this is not like something unknown. Biden himself has run for president 3 times. The first two times he didn't even get a delegate. Now he's president.

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

Luckily for him, Presidents increase their wealth after leaving office. But he's burned too many bridges among donors and the GOP. Even if his base wants him, the people who hate him and had to deal with his demands of loyalty but never showing it in return will never stand for it.

He buried the Senator from Arizona who was nothing but a loyal solider for him and she lost the election and he lost the state.
He went in on Governors who have backed him and called their election processes into question.

People like the McMahon's of the world will back him with funding but they won't be enough to get him back in a position of power.

[Jvaughn]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

His base will die down after he no longer has the office of President and Fox News to bolster his nonsense.
Eventually they will feel like the chick that drunkenly slept with the 10 but woke up to a 2 with Herpes.

I really hope so, but I fear he'll be even louder when he gets out of the White House. I also think his die hard MAGA supporters are going to be right there for it. Wouldn't be surprised if they along with the Quanon crew tried to start up their own party.

[dice]

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

Luckily for him, Presidents increase their wealth after leaving office

by writing memoirs and giving big money speeches. i don't see trump going down that road to a degree that's going to significantly impact his finances

the clintons are worth an estimated 120 mil. they have accrued that over 20 years. trump owes an estimated 421 million, which he calls "a peanut", but nobody really knows how much he is worth

[Michael Jackson]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

His base will die down after he no longer has the office of President and Fox News to bolster his nonsense.
Eventually they will feel like the chick that drunkenly slept with the 10 but woke up to a 2 with Herpes.

Not only Fox but CNN also making sure his name is constantly on peoples tongues. Haters give more press than supporters. When he drops out of the news cycle which ever more increasingly fickle his support and interest will fade.

[Jeffster81]

I'm glad Trump is gone but damn does it have to be Biden? Biden will be the 2nd straight one terms president. There is no way in hell that an 82 yr old Biden at the time of the next election will win. To me that is a near lock. Right and the left will have four years to cultivate better candidates.

If the GOP holds the senate, then Biden will accomplish nothing as a one term president. IOW, Biden is basically a transistional president. That's fine because Biden is not my president, nor was Trump. They are/were simply the head dumbass in charge. P

[TheStig]

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

Luckily for him, Presidents increase their wealth after leaving office

by writing memoirs and giving big money speeches. i don't see trump going down that road to a degree that's going to significantly impact his finances

the clintons are worth an estimated 120 mil. they have accrued that over 20 years. trump owes an estimated 421 million, which he calls "a peanut", but nobody really knows how much he is worth

You do know Trump isn't -421 million. He has assets against those loans that are likely worth more. Perhaps he's not worth 10 billion like he claims but he's certainly a billionaire.

[MrFortune3]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

His base will die down after he no longer has the office of President and Fox News to bolster his nonsense.
Eventually they will feel like the chick that drunkenly slept with the 10 but woke up to a 2 with Herpes.

I really hope so, but I fear he'll be even louder when he gets out of the White House. I also think his die hard MAGA supporters are going to be right there for it. Wouldn't be surprised if they along with the Quanon crew tried to start up their own party.

I'm not saying he will die down and be quiet. I am saying that his base won't have the platform it has in the past. It was bolstered by him being in power and Fox News pandering to him and spreading his false information to inflame the masses.

[TheStig]

It's also worth noting we are speaking about ancient history here. In the last 24 years, all incumbents outside of Trump have won reelection. So this is not like something unknown. Biden himself has run for president 3 times. The first two times he didn't even get a delegate. Now he's president.

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

He has raised much more money now than in 2016. Why would they dump him now if he won but not after the last 4 years? Just like the DNC, the RNC is goint to spend on the nominee.

[MrFortune3]

Meanwhile the crazies and many GOP along with lame-duck POTUS continue insisting this is going to the Supreme Court.

So hold your horses for the pseudo Civil War.

His base will die down after he no longer has the office of President and Fox News to bolster his nonsense.
Eventually they will feel like the chick that drunkenly slept with the 10 but woke up to a 2 with Herpes.

Not only Fox but CNN also making sure his name is constantly on peoples tongues. Haters give more press than supporters. When he drops out of the news cycle which ever more increasingly fickle his support and interest will fade.

CNN was countering Fox News in a media war. Allowing his message to die out and not mentioning him will happen but the primary antagonist was Fox News and Trump. Losing that element will lessen the credibility.

One of Murdoch's Daughter in Laws called him out last night about the way he's handled Fox News and spread disinformation for Trump.
Some of their reporters were even fed up with the nonsense and corrected the anchors about spreading misinformation.

[MrFortune3]

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

He has raised much more money now than in 2016. Why would they dump him now if he won but not after the last 4 years? Just like the DNC, the RNC is goint to spend on the nominee.

He raised more and had more votes than in 2016, he got walloped in the electoral college and you pissed off many GOP key players.
The cash infusion he got late this time around isn't likely to happen again.

[MrFortune3]

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

Luckily for him, Presidents increase their wealth after leaving office

by writing memoirs and giving big money speeches. i don't see trump going down that road to a degree that's going to significantly impact his finances

the clintons are worth an estimated 120 mil. they have accrued that over 20 years. trump owes an estimated 421 million, which he calls "a peanut", but nobody really knows how much he is worth

He loves to control his narrative, I could definitely see him follow suit.
It would help him settle his lawsuits and not come heavily out of pocket for it.

[dice]

History is pretty useful in this scenario.
Biden is a recent VP from a pretty successful administration. His previous failures were lessened by this.
He was never judged at the top position like Trump has been. These previous 4 years and his actions in defeat, will never allow him to launch a successful campaign in 2024.

Trump is the first candidate to lose re-election since 1992, George H.W. Bush lost to Clinton. It has been 28 years since a sitting President has pissed off the nation so badly that they wanted him out before a 2nd term. He even lost a Republican controlled and predominantly Red voting state in Georgia.

I have no doubt that he will remain a fixture in the GOP political arena, he just won't factor into the Presidency race again. Unless, the nation craters and people long for his reign of stupidity again. If Biden has a successful run and handles the office of President with class, Trump will not be able to factor in.
The comparison will be "Look at what happened in those 4 years, look how far we've come now."

He is likely to go down as the worst President in the history in the United States. Your legacy tends to have more definition once you leave office. History will not be kind to him the further away we move from his Presidency.

trump could win the nomination in 2024. the problem is that major donors will be far less interested in funding him. and he sure as hell ain't gonna dig deep into his own pockets...assuming he has anything left with all the money he owes and the lawsuits he's gonna be facing

He has raised much more money now than in 2016. Why would they dump him now if he won but not after the last 4 years? Just like the DNC, the RNC is goint to spend on the nominee.

i'm saying he has to GET the nomination, which requires backing. there are few public birther figures that aren't going to turn their backs on him now