NBA Trade Thread #2

[League Circles]

Who says No???

BULLS: #GS 2nd overall + Andrew Wiggins + Eric Paschal

GS: Zach Lavine + Thad Young

Bulls should say no to that. Zach is the best asset there by a wide margin.

[sco]

Who says No???

BULLS: #GS 2nd overall + Andrew Wiggins + Eric Paschal

GS: Zach Lavine + Thad Young

Bulls should say no to that. Zach is the best asset there by a wide margin.

The GS trade I'd probably do is #4 +WC for #2 + Paschal.
The Minn trade I'd do is #4+#44 + 2021 2nd Rounder + WC for #1 + Culver

[CubbyBear2290]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Would love it personally for Zach and for basketball knowledge related reasons. Dallas has nothing to offer though.

I don't really agree with this. THJ is going to opt into his deal so that alone matches Zach's salary and he's a more efficient offensive player boasting a 115 ORTG to a 106 for Zach. 4.4 Win shares for THJ to Zach's 4. Tim also has .581 TS% to LaVine's .568. All on 10% less usage.

Am I saying Hardaway Jr. is a superior player? No, not really. I'm saying the falloff isn't big, at all, and THJ's deal is expiring and if they choose to bring him back he won't be near the cap hit Zach would be for his next deal that he's due. Couple that with the other things you could get from them? I think the Mavs would be a really good fit.

Overall, I think a deal could potentially get done and maybe look something like this:

Bulls Receive:
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Dorian Finney-Smith
Jalen Brunson
#18 Overall

Mavericks Receive:
Zach LaVine
Tomas Satoranksy

I think it's reasonable on both sides and the Mavericks get 2 years of control on a wing scorer and versatile, non-ball dominant, glue type in Sato. All helping the Mavericks win-now mode and helping the Bulls establish a culture with guys like Brunson and DFS while also getting them another pick and an expiring deal in Hardaway Jr. at worst.

[cjbulls]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Would love it personally for Zach and for basketball knowledge related reasons. Dallas has nothing to offer though.

I don't really agree with this. THJ is going to opt into his deal so that alone matches Zach's salary and he's a more efficient offensive player boasting a 115 ORTG to a 106 for Zach. 4.4 Win shares for THJ to Zach's 4. Tim also has .581 TS% to LaVine's .568. All on 10% less usage.

Am I saying Hardaway Jr. is a superior player? No, not really. I'm saying the falloff isn't big, at all, and THJ's deal is expiring and if they choose to bring him back he won't be near the cap hit Zach would be for his next deal that he's due. Couple that with the other things you could get from them? I think the Mavs would be a really good fit.

Overall, I think a deal could potentially get done and maybe look something like this:

Bulls Receive:
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Dorian Finney-Smith
Jalen Brunson
#18 Overall

Mavericks Receive:
Zach LaVine
Tomas Satoranksy

I think it's reasonable on both sides and the Mavericks get 2 years of control on a wing scorer and versatile, non-ball dominant, glue type in Sato. All helping the Mavericks win-now mode and helping the Bulls establish a culture with guys like Brunson and DFS while also getting them another pick and an expiring deal in Hardaway Jr. at worst.

I’m not seeing Hardaway very close to Zach. For one he is exiting his prime while Zach is entering his. He is 3 years older.

He had a nice TS% last year, but it’s an outlier compared to the last several (aided by Luka), where he was below league average.

Both of them are one-skill players: scorers. Zach was putting up 26.7 per 36 minutes, Hardaway 19.3.
Then you factor in that Hardaway needs to be RE-signed in a year for the 30s part of his career and it’s downgrades across the board. The #18 pick isn’t worth it.

[MrSparkle]

Everyone keeps pitching WCJ trade ideas for MIN and GSW... but has anyone bothered considering the alternative, if those teams were to address C?

MLE: Baynes, Whiteside, Plumlee, Thompson, Poeltl, Zizic

Less than MLE: Gasol, Olynyk, Meyers, Kanter, RoLo, Len, Noel

GSW convinced Cousins to sign for the MLE. Granted it was a little different scenario, but we're talking about a 20 mpg center they need. Why would they take a player who still needs a lot of development and wants to talk contract extension after next season?

Furthermore, they can just draft Okongwu (#4-6) in a trade down and be done with it. I imagine they'd much rather have some perimeter prospects like Garland or Sexton, Osman, Kennard, etc. Their guard depth is terrible right now, and there's no legit backup for Curry and Klay like there was back in the day with Livingston and Barbosa. Durant's not carrying the loads anymore, and they're older and coming back from injuries, so Curry and Klay are going to need positional relief. I don't think they give a crap about adding Wendell.

We need to swallow the fact that Wendells are a dime a dozen, and in no way shape or form "top-10" material.

[sco]

Everyone keeps pitching WCJ trade ideas for MIN and GSW... but has anyone bothered considering the alternative, if those teams were to address C?

MLE: Baynes, Whiteside, Plumlee, Thompson, Poeltl, Zizic

Less than MLE: Gasol, Olynyk, Meyers, Kanter, RoLo, Len, Noel

GSW convinced Cousins to sign for the MLE. Granted it was a little different scenario, but we're talking about a 20 mpg center they need. Why would they take a player who still needs a lot of development and wants to talk contract extension after next season?

Furthermore, they can just draft Okongwu in a trade down and be done with it.

Great point! I'm a big fan of drafting Edwards and signing Noel. He knows and did very well for Billy.

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of trading down to get 2 of Vassell, Poku, Terry, Neismith or Lewis. Then signing Saric or Giles for MLE as Lauri insurance.

[CubbyBear2290]

Would love it personally for Zach and for basketball knowledge related reasons. Dallas has nothing to offer though.

I don't really agree with this. THJ is going to opt into his deal so that alone matches Zach's salary and he's a more efficient offensive player boasting a 115 ORTG to a 106 for Zach. 4.4 Win shares for THJ to Zach's 4. Tim also has .581 TS% to LaVine's .568. All on 10% less usage.

Am I saying Hardaway Jr. is a superior player? No, not really. I'm saying the falloff isn't big, at all, and THJ's deal is expiring and if they choose to bring him back he won't be near the cap hit Zach would be for his next deal that he's due. Couple that with the other things you could get from them? I think the Mavs would be a really good fit.

Overall, I think a deal could potentially get done and maybe look something like this:

Bulls Receive:
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Dorian Finney-Smith
Jalen Brunson
#18 Overall

Mavericks Receive:
Zach LaVine
Tomas Satoranksy

I think it's reasonable on both sides and the Mavericks get 2 years of control on a wing scorer and versatile, non-ball dominant, glue type in Sato. All helping the Mavericks win-now mode and helping the Bulls establish a culture with guys like Brunson and DFS while also getting them another pick and an expiring deal in Hardaway Jr. at worst.

I’m not seeing Hardaway very close to Zach. For one he is exiting his prime while Zach is entering his. He is 3 years older.

He had a nice TS% last year, but it’s an outlier compared to the last several (aided by Luka), where he was below league average.

Both of them are one-skill players: scorers. Zach was putting up 26.7 per 36 minutes, Hardaway 19.3.
Then you factor in that Hardaway needs to be RE-signed in a year for the 30s part of his career and it’s downgrades across the board. The #18 pick isn’t worth it.

Re-signing him is an option. I never said it was THE option. THJ plays as a guy who's expiring in '21 along with OPJ, Thad (being partially GTD), Felicio, and Sato (also partially GTD) though I could just leave him out of this given the scenario. And yes it makes them "worse" this season but that isn't a bad thing in '21 with a STACKED draft class and they'll have a ton of money falling off for the FA period. This should be what they're aiming to do.

And realistically you have to make a choice to either extend Zach or move him. I think they inevitably move him and what the Mavs could offer is more than fair. But, most of this fanbase values Zach far too high for what he actually is. This coming from a guy who likes Lavine, a lot. I just don't think they view him as someone they can build winners with who needs new paper sooner rather than later.

[cjbulls]

I don't really agree with this. THJ is going to opt into his deal so that alone matches Zach's salary and he's a more efficient offensive player boasting a 115 ORTG to a 106 for Zach. 4.4 Win shares for THJ to Zach's 4. Tim also has .581 TS% to LaVine's .568. All on 10% less usage.

Am I saying Hardaway Jr. is a superior player? No, not really. I'm saying the falloff isn't big, at all, and THJ's deal is expiring and if they choose to bring him back he won't be near the cap hit Zach would be for his next deal that he's due. Couple that with the other things you could get from them? I think the Mavs would be a really good fit.

Overall, I think a deal could potentially get done and maybe look something like this:

Bulls Receive:
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Dorian Finney-Smith
Jalen Brunson
#18 Overall

Mavericks Receive:
Zach LaVine
Tomas Satoranksy

I think it's reasonable on both sides and the Mavericks get 2 years of control on a wing scorer and versatile, non-ball dominant, glue type in Sato. All helping the Mavericks win-now mode and helping the Bulls establish a culture with guys like Brunson and DFS while also getting them another pick and an expiring deal in Hardaway Jr. at worst.

I’m not seeing Hardaway very close to Zach. For one he is exiting his prime while Zach is entering his. He is 3 years older.

He had a nice TS% last year, but it’s an outlier compared to the last several (aided by Luka), where he was below league average.

Both of them are one-skill players: scorers. Zach was putting up 26.7 per 36 minutes, Hardaway 19.3.
Then you factor in that Hardaway needs to be RE-signed in a year for the 30s part of his career and it’s downgrades across the board. The #18 pick isn’t worth it.

Re-signing him is an option. I never said it was THE option. THJ plays as a guy who's expiring in '21 along with OPJ, Thad (being partially GTD), Felicio, and Sato (also partially GTD) though I could just leave him out of this given the scenario. And yes it makes them "worse" this season but that isn't a bad thing in '21 with a STACKED draft class and they'll have a ton of money falling off for the FA period. This should be what they're aiming to do.

And realistically you have to make a choice to either extend Zach or move him. I think they inevitably move him and what the Mavs could offer is more than fair. But, most of this fanbase values Zach far too high for what he actually is. This coming from a guy who likes Lavine, a lot. I just don't think they view him as someone they can build winners with who needs new paper sooner rather than later.

Fine, but if you’re trading Zach to tank there are going to be better options out there than Hardaway + 18.

[CubbyBear2290]

I’m not seeing Hardaway very close to Zach. For one he is exiting his prime while Zach is entering his. He is 3 years older.

He had a nice TS% last year, but it’s an outlier compared to the last several (aided by Luka), where he was below league average.

Both of them are one-skill players: scorers. Zach was putting up 26.7 per 36 minutes, Hardaway 19.3.
Then you factor in that Hardaway needs to be RE-signed in a year for the 30s part of his career and it’s downgrades across the board. The #18 pick isn’t worth it.

Re-signing him is an option. I never said it was THE option. THJ plays as a guy who's expiring in '21 along with OPJ, Thad (being partially GTD), Felicio, and Sato (also partially GTD) though I could just leave him out of this given the scenario. And yes it makes them "worse" this season but that isn't a bad thing in '21 with a STACKED draft class and they'll have a ton of money falling off for the FA period. This should be what they're aiming to do.

And realistically you have to make a choice to either extend Zach or move him. I think they inevitably move him and what the Mavs could offer is more than fair. But, most of this fanbase values Zach far too high for what he actually is. This coming from a guy who likes Lavine, a lot. I just don't think they view him as someone they can build winners with who needs new paper sooner rather than later.

Fine, but if you’re trading Zach to tank there are going to be better options out there than Hardaway + 18.

Okay then realistically what should Zach net you? Realistically?

[cjbulls]

Re-signing him is an option. I never said it was THE option. THJ plays as a guy who's expiring in '21 along with OPJ, Thad (being partially GTD), Felicio, and Sato (also partially GTD) though I could just leave him out of this given the scenario. And yes it makes them "worse" this season but that isn't a bad thing in '21 with a STACKED draft class and they'll have a ton of money falling off for the FA period. This should be what they're aiming to do.

And realistically you have to make a choice to either extend Zach or move him. I think they inevitably move him and what the Mavs could offer is more than fair. But, most of this fanbase values Zach far too high for what he actually is. This coming from a guy who likes Lavine, a lot. I just don't think they view him as someone they can build winners with who needs new paper sooner rather than later.

Fine, but if you’re trading Zach to tank there are going to be better options out there than Hardaway + 18.

Okay then realistically what should Zach net you? Realistically?

I don’t know exactly what you want as the trade market is fluid. But something like Buddy Hield + 12 is a better deal. An upgrade of player and pick. And highly dependent on Bulls having a guy they really want at 12 (for example if they loved Okoro or Vassell at 4 but had Hayes or whoever higher)

If you say we need to move on from Zach you aren’t getting an older player because this team isn’t in a position to contend. And in the off chance you did, it would be for a vet leader which Hardaway is not.

[CubbyBear2290]

Fine, but if you’re trading Zach to tank there are going to be better options out there than Hardaway + 18.

Okay then realistically what should Zach net you? Realistically?

I don’t know exactly what you want as the trade market is fluid. But something like Buddy Hield + 12 is a better deal. An upgrade of player and pick. And highly dependent on Bulls having a guy they really want at 12 (for example if they loved Okoro or Vassell at 4 but had Hayes or whoever higher)

If you say we need to move on from Zach you aren’t getting an older player because this team isn’t in a position to contend. And in the off chance you did, it would be for a vet leader which Hardaway is not.

So you want to take on a more expensive player who lost his starting spot this year and is older than Zach while further crippling future cap?

Got It.

[cjbulls]

Okay then realistically what should Zach net you? Realistically?

I don’t know exactly what you want as the trade market is fluid. But something like Buddy Hield + 12 is a better deal. An upgrade of player and pick. And highly dependent on Bulls having a guy they really want at 12 (for example if they loved Okoro or Vassell at 4 but had Hayes or whoever higher)

If you say we need to move on from Zach you aren’t getting an older player because this team isn’t in a position to contend. And in the off chance you did, it would be for a vet leader which Hardaway is not.

So you want to take on a more expensive player who lost his starting spot this year and is older than Zach while further crippling future cap?

Got It.

I don’t want it. You said what is a realistic scenario that is better than your deal. Off the top of my head I came up with one. Hield is a better, younger player than Hardaway. 12 is lower than 18 and allows you to maybe get into the same tier of players available to the Bulls at 4

Zach’s value will peak this offseason and there are a lot of vet teams interested. I’m not here scanning the league for you to find the best deal. Just showing you why yours is bad.

[sco]

I don’t know exactly what you want as the trade market is fluid. But something like Buddy Hield + 12 is a better deal. An upgrade of player and pick. And highly dependent on Bulls having a guy they really want at 12 (for example if they loved Okoro or Vassell at 4 but had Hayes or whoever higher)

If you say we need to move on from Zach you aren’t getting an older player because this team isn’t in a position to contend. And in the off chance you did, it would be for a vet leader which Hardaway is not.

So you want to take on a more expensive player who lost his starting spot this year and is older than Zach while further crippling future cap?

Got It.

I don’t want it. You said what is a realistic scenario that is better than your deal. Off the top of my head I came up with one. Hield is a better, younger player than Hardaway. 12 is lower than 18 and allows you to maybe get into the same tier of players available to the Bulls at 4

Zach’s value will peak this offseason and there are a lot of vet teams interested. I’m not here scanning the league for you to find the best deal. Just showing you why yours is bad.

I think we could probably get #1 or #2 for Zach. But I'd much rather try to extend him for 3 more years @ $25M/yr.

[cjbulls]

So you want to take on a more expensive player who lost his starting spot this year and is older than Zach while further crippling future cap?

Got It.

I don’t want it. You said what is a realistic scenario that is better than your deal. Off the top of my head I came up with one. Hield is a better, younger player than Hardaway. 12 is lower than 18 and allows you to maybe get into the same tier of players available to the Bulls at 4

Zach’s value will peak this offseason and there are a lot of vet teams interested. I’m not here scanning the league for you to find the best deal. Just showing you why yours is bad.

I think we could probably get #1 or #2 for Zach. But I'd much rather try to extend him for 3 more years @ $25M/yr.

I don’t think either is in the cards. Zach has too much confidence to take 25. He’s going to be after a max deal and plans to work hard to do it, which is a likable quality about him.

[Chi town]

Everyone keeps pitching WCJ trade ideas for MIN and GSW... but has anyone bothered considering the alternative, if those teams were to address C?

MLE: Baynes, Whiteside, Plumlee, Thompson, Poeltl, Zizic

Less than MLE: Gasol, Olynyk, Meyers, Kanter, RoLo, Len, Noel

GSW convinced Cousins to sign for the MLE. Granted it was a little different scenario, but we're talking about a 20 mpg center they need. Why would they take a player who still needs a lot of development and wants to talk contract extension after next season?

Furthermore, they can just draft Okongwu (#4-6) in a trade down and be done with it. I imagine they'd much rather have some perimeter prospects like Garland or Sexton, Osman, Kennard, etc. Their guard depth is terrible right now, and there's no legit backup for Curry and Klay like there was back in the day with Livingston and Barbosa. Durant's not carrying the loads anymore, and they're older and coming back from injuries, so Curry and Klay are going to need positional relief. I don't think they give a crap about adding Wendell.

We need to swallow the fact that Wendells are a dime a dozen, and in no way shape or form "top-10" material.

This is why I’m okay trading WCJ for 17 and Culver. I think Culver is a big upgrade over Hutch and his shot is a red flag but recent videos show no hitch and good changes. If Lonzo can improve his shot so can Culver.

At 17 I’d take the best talent to drop or try and trade up a few spots for Kira Lewis.

Sign a vet C like you listed above and play Gafford too. If WCJ really thinks he’s a PF I want nothing to do with him. Let him play next to KAT and help their D.

[sco]

I don’t want it. You said what is a realistic scenario that is better than your deal. Off the top of my head I came up with one. Hield is a better, younger player than Hardaway. 12 is lower than 18 and allows you to maybe get into the same tier of players available to the Bulls at 4

Zach’s value will peak this offseason and there are a lot of vet teams interested. I’m not here scanning the league for you to find the best deal. Just showing you why yours is bad.

I think we could probably get #1 or #2 for Zach. But I'd much rather try to extend him for 3 more years @ $25M/yr.

I don’t think either is in the cards. Zach has too much confidence to take 25. He’s going to be after a max deal and plans to work hard to do it, which is a likable quality about him.

I am probably wrong, but I think his max extension is $25M. Given his injury history, he may be willing to do that. Also, he'd still be under 30 for his next contract, which is ideal.

[gardenofsound]

I think there's a deal to be had between Boston, New Orleans, and Chicago if Chicago has any interest in tanking this coming season without adding long term salary.

Who says no to this and what adjustments could be made?

NOP out: Jrue Holiday, #13
NOP in: Zach LaVine, Wendell Carter, Jr.

BOS out: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, #14, #26
BOS in: Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young, #44

CHI out: Zach LaVine, Wendell Carter, Jr., Thaddeus Young, #44
CHI in: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, #13, #14, #26

[Pax for Prez]

I think we could probably get #1 or #2 for Zach. But I'd much rather try to extend him for 3 more years @ $25M/yr.

I don’t think either is in the cards. Zach has too much confidence to take 25. He’s going to be after a max deal and plans to work hard to do it, which is a likable quality about him.

I am probably wrong, but I think his max extension is $25M. Given his injury history, he may be willing to do that. Also, he'd still be under 30 for his next contract, which is ideal.

Zach is going to want to be paid !! He will not settle for less.

[cjbulls]

I think we could probably get #1 or #2 for Zach. But I'd much rather try to extend him for 3 more years @ $25M/yr.

I don’t think either is in the cards. Zach has too much confidence to take 25. He’s going to be after a max deal and plans to work hard to do it, which is a likable quality about him.

I am probably wrong, but I think his max extension is $25M. Given his injury history, he may be willing to do that. Also, he'd still be under 30 for his next contract, which is ideal.

I think it works out that way if he RE-signed this offseason (and only because you average in the next few years of his deal or something). If he just waits til FA in 2 years he starts at like 35 or so. Zach is just a bet on himself kind of guy but I’d love to be wrong. He’s underpaid at $25

[gobullschi]

I think there's a deal to be had between Boston, New Orleans, and Chicago if Chicago has any interest in tanking this coming season without adding long term salary.

Who says no to this and what adjustments could be made?

NOP out: Jrue Holiday, #13
NOP in: Zach LaVine, Wendell Carter, Jr.

BOS out: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, #14, #26
BOS in: Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young, #44

CHI out: Zach LaVine, Wendell Carter, Jr., Thaddeus Young, #44
CHI in: Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, #13, #14, #26

This is a terrible deal. Wtf