Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[DarkXaero]

OT: We need to prepare for the Chet Holmgren and Emoni Bates draft classes as we continue to sustainability.

Dealing 2022 and 2023 picks cannot happen unless it’s for a Harden level deal. This Holmgren kid is legit.

We're still going to have KD & Kyrie in 2022 under contract. Things would have to go horribly, horribly bad for us to be in a position to draft those prospects. Either way you shouldn't be trading picks unprotected, GMs around the NBA have learned from Billy King debacle.

[Prokorov]

I think harden has shown significantly better ability to play with other high volume stars as compared to beal. beal played to 1 other high usage player (Wall) who is no where close to the type of usage of a guy like westbrook, Paul, or Durant + westrbook.

I mean next to Chris paul Harden won 65 games (best record in the NBA) and took the curry/durant/klay warriors to 7 games and may have won if Paul wasnt hurt for game 7. a 4th place in the west (top 6 in the NBA) finishes next to westbrook.

Paul/Harden were the #1 offense in 17-18
Paul/Harden were the #2 offense in 18-19
Westbrook/Harden were the #5 offense in 19-20

I dont see strong evidence that Harden struggles next to other high use players. I dont see strong evidence high usage players struggle next to harden and i dont see evidence that harden + other high usage stars is not a winning formula. There is alot more evidence for Beal in that regard as the team was not very successful with wall/beal even in a weak east and Beal only really broke out once wall got hurt.

Oh also... the "harden doesnt show up in the playoffs" thing is also a huge myth. He played poorly in 2 huge game 7's vs. elite teams. I realize those game 7's were huge games. but lets consider he has played 123 other playoff games at an elite level. and got his teams deep in the playoffs year after year.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-hardens-disappearing-act-in-another-playoff-fourth-quarter-is-so-on-brand-its-painful-to-watch/

It is one thing to be an exceptionally great player. It is something else entirely to channel and tap into that greatness in the exceptionally important and pressure-filled moments of the NBA playoffs.

That reality -- and the stark gulf between greatness in the moment, and greatness overwhelmed by it -- was on vivid display Thursday night in the Lakers' 110-100 win over the Houston Rockets to put them up 3-1 in the second-round playoff series.

On one end of this equation, behold LeBron James: Even with a mild 16 points, 15 rebounds and nine assists he was the quintessential winner, and his team followed suit.

On the other, see James Harden: 2 of 11, a misleading 21 points on the night, most coming at the free-throw line, as the Beard braved literally nothing in a fourth quarter in which he did not take a single shot.

Not one. Not one field-goal attempt.

On the one hand, quiet excellence. On the other, silent abdication.

So we know this now: Harden is no playoff hero, and he's unlikely ever to be. He has simply failed, so many times, to turn these biggest of basketball moments into anything other than disappointment. As Kevin O'Connor at The Ringer pointed out before the Rockets had even bested the Thunder in the first round, over the past five years Harden has shot less than 25 percent from the 3-point line in playoff fourth quarters and overtimes.

I don't think it's a myth at all...we've seen multiple times where Harden has just flat out given up.

He has played 125 playoff games. 119 at an elite level, 6 were he stunk it up. it is absurd to focus on the 6 and discount the 119. his teams didnt magcially get to game 7 of the WCF with him sucking the whole way. he put them on his back to get there

[Prokorov]

If we are giving up depth for a “3rd star” I would like it to be a actual star lol. But fit is obviously of an importance. Not sure of Kyrie harden and KD on the same floor. It will be interesting if that were to happen though I doubt harden ends up here

it is unfathomable to me that people would question the fit of 3 elite players who are elite both on and off the ball. all three guys are elite scorers, elite shooters, and elite finishers. There is literally no scenario where that doesnt work. no matter who has the ball they can score. no matter who doesnt have the ball they are spacing the floor and will drill a catch and shoot.

you can easily get all 3 of them 15-20 shots a game.

this trip has played together on team USA multiple time.

people are legit against rolling out an olympic dream team (Kyrie, harden, KD, Jordan LITERALLY shared the court for team USA and Harris was on the last US team)

This isnt like the heat where wade didnt really space the floor and bosh couldnt beat someone off the dribble. all 3 guys are 50/40/90 assasins that will own you in every situation.

and there is no break for the D. you have an elite top 5 scorer on the floor at all times.

this would be the biggest no brainer of all time

[GTR11]

I get the fact some maybe iffy about Harden. Does he have a mood swings? Duh, but so do Kyrie and KD. My point is, guy is an elite level talent. You don't get chances like that every time ( beside Lakers of course ).
Beal? I'm down with him too, and he's price going to be much lower. But he ain't no Harden. You can make a case for him being better fit next to Kyrie and KD, but he won't be able to take your team on another level the way Harden can.

[MrDollarBills]

Oh also... the "harden doesnt show up in the playoffs" thing is also a huge myth. He played poorly in 2 huge game 7's vs. elite teams. I realize those game 7's were huge games. but lets consider he has played 123 other playoff games at an elite level. and got his teams deep in the playoffs year after year.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-hardens-disappearing-act-in-another-playoff-fourth-quarter-is-so-on-brand-its-painful-to-watch/

It is one thing to be an exceptionally great player. It is something else entirely to channel and tap into that greatness in the exceptionally important and pressure-filled moments of the NBA playoffs.

That reality -- and the stark gulf between greatness in the moment, and greatness overwhelmed by it -- was on vivid display Thursday night in the Lakers' 110-100 win over the Houston Rockets to put them up 3-1 in the second-round playoff series.

On one end of this equation, behold LeBron James: Even with a mild 16 points, 15 rebounds and nine assists he was the quintessential winner, and his team followed suit.

On the other, see James Harden: 2 of 11, a misleading 21 points on the night, most coming at the free-throw line, as the Beard braved literally nothing in a fourth quarter in which he did not take a single shot.

Not one. Not one field-goal attempt.

On the one hand, quiet excellence. On the other, silent abdication.

So we know this now: Harden is no playoff hero, and he's unlikely ever to be. He has simply failed, so many times, to turn these biggest of basketball moments into anything other than disappointment. As Kevin O'Connor at The Ringer pointed out before the Rockets had even bested the Thunder in the first round, over the past five years Harden has shot less than 25 percent from the 3-point line in playoff fourth quarters and overtimes.

I don't think it's a myth at all...we've seen multiple times where Harden has just flat out given up.

He has played 125 playoff games. 119 at an elite level, 6 were he stunk it up. it is absurd to focus on the 6 and discount the 119. his teams didnt magcially get to game 7 of the WCF with him sucking the whole way. he put them on his back to get there

and then let go of the rope when it came down to win or go home.

That being said, it's not something I would really have a concern about if we were to trade for him since KD and Kyrie are here, and both of them are proven killers in the 4th quarter of big time games. My concern is fit and attitude, and his willingness to adapt to playing off the ball.

[MGrand15]

He want from being the only option to being next to an extremely high usage/ball dominant players in the league in chris paul and they won 65 games and posted the #1 offense. if that is not evidence i dont know what is. He also has played with KD/Kyrie on team USA and next to russ and KD in OKC.

what evidence is there for beal?

there is quite literally 0 evidence he cant function next to other stars with at least some evidence that he can. most importantly, regardless of who you put around harden, he has enormous impact and has made his team a top 5 NBA team regardless of who is next to him.

I think the difficulty of mixing high usage guys is WAY overblown if everyone can shoot. He's 41% on catch and shoot 3s. Teams never leave him open. Harden was so dominant this year that teams were just straight throwing doubles at him 35 feet away from the basket. That's just murder with KD + Kyrie on the floor.

I think one thing people miss about the Rockets/Harden style of play is that it really developed that way because of how Harden destroys defenses. He used to run a million PNRs per game. Teams figured out no matter how they guarded it, Harden was scoring or he'd find someone for an open dunk or 3. Teams learned to switch everything. That forced Harden into the ridiculous amount of isos. As ugly as the style of play was, surrounded by bad shooting and mediocre scorers, he turned that into an elite offense. We'd be in a TOTALLY different situation.

Harden's an elite shooter + elite passer + elite finisher + elite at drawing fouls. He can play next to anyone in any offensive system. Even if he doesn't move without the ball or whatever, teams stay attached. That gives Kyrie + KD room to work. He'd have to sacrifice a lot more than he did with CP3 but I'd let Nash handle that.

That's true regarding the fact that everyone can shoot.

My main concern, can he adapt his game to accommodate the playing style of two other superstar talents? We saw him do that in OKC when he was a kid, but he was also coming off of the bench. He's a totally different player now in terms of mindset. He doesn't take criticism from his peers very well (dude cussed out CP3, I don't want to really add another personality to the mix that the staff may have to bend over backwards for).

He didn't sacrifice anything playing with CP3. I wouldn't call a 40% usage rate sacrifice...the offense was still Harden pounding the air out of the ball while everyone watched, and now with what happened with Westbrook this is the 2nd straight year that a star player has demanded a trade out of Houston. At some point you have to question why can't anyone of significant talent play with this guy.

All of that is true - especially the attitude stuff - but adding a MVP level guy to the mix is too much to turn down. You worry about chemistry and the details later. It could be a disaster with 3 sensitive personalities but I'd be all in.

[Paradise]

Giannis has officially put Milwaukee on the clock:

Read on Twitter

[GTR11]

Giannis has officially put Milwaukee on the clock:

Read on Twitter

He's out, no clock needed. There's select few teams need to make some cap space that's all.

[Paradise]

Watch on YouTube

Unrealistic or not, It’s absolutely good to be in this conversation as a franchise now. Doesn’t matter if Houston doesn’t move him or not, if Harden wants to be a Net. That’s absolutely a win for us going forward as a franchise before KD and Kyrie take the court. Lower level guys who will look at this chatter might come here on more cheaper deals than we think.

Everyone here knows about those heated posts on the Lillard pick for Gerald Wallace deal but does anyone remember those painful heated debates on how Billy King could’ve gotten us Harden from OKC?

[MrDollarBills]

Watch on YouTube

Unrealistic or not, It’s absolutely good to be in this conversation as a franchise now. Doesn’t matter if Houston doesn’t move him or not, if Harden wants to be a Net. That’s absolutely a win for us going forward as a franchise before KD and Kyrie take the court. Lower level guys who will look at this chatter might come here on more cheaper deals than we think.

Everyone here knows about those heated posts on the Lillard pick for Gerald Wallace deal but does anyone remember those painful heated debates on how Billy King could’ve gotten us Harden from OKC?

The thing that bugged me about this is that Jay said Spencer is sending out signals that he wants out. Is that even true?

[DarkXaero]

Watch on YouTube

Unrealistic or not, It’s absolutely good to be in this conversation as a franchise now. Doesn’t matter if Houston doesn’t move him or not, if Harden wants to be a Net. That’s absolutely a win for us going forward as a franchise before KD and Kyrie take the court. Lower level guys who will look at this chatter might come here on more cheaper deals than we think.

Everyone here knows about those heated posts on the Lillard pick for Gerald Wallace deal but does anyone remember those painful heated debates on how Billy King could’ve gotten us Harden from OKC?

The thing that bugged me about this is that Jay said Spencer is sending out signals that he wants out. Is that even true?

He is just going off based Dinwiddie's twitter, he doesn't actually know.

Sent from my LM-V405 using RealGM mobile app

[TheNetsFan]

Watch on YouTube

Unrealistic or not, It’s absolutely good to be in this conversation as a franchise now. Doesn’t matter if Houston doesn’t move him or not, if Harden wants to be a Net. That’s absolutely a win for us going forward as a franchise before KD and Kyrie take the court. Lower level guys who will look at this chatter might come here on more cheaper deals than we think.

Everyone here knows about those heated posts on the Lillard pick for Gerald Wallace deal but does anyone remember those painful heated debates on how Billy King could’ve gotten us Harden from OKC?

The thing that bugged me about this is that Jay said Spencer is sending out signals that he wants out. Is that even true?

He is just going off based Dinwiddie's twitter, he doesn't actually know.

Sent from my LM-V405 using RealGM mobile app

Jay is tight with KD. There's a good chance he knows what the players on the team are talking about.

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

[DarkXaero]

Meh, I think it's way too early to fall for it (I know I did a trade post on it but that was more for fun). I just don't see Houston giving up Harden this early, and even if they somehow did, Philly is the obvious choice here.

[DarkXaero]

The thing that bugged me about this is that Jay said Spencer is sending out signals that he wants out. Is that even true?

He is just going off based Dinwiddie's twitter, he doesn't actually know.

Sent from my LM-V405 using RealGM mobile app

Jay is tight with KD. There's a good chance he knows what the players on the team are talking about.

I don't recall Jay Williams ever really breaking anything or being an insider, but maybe you're right.

[Papi_swav]

Wow Harden on this teams will be insane. Don't think we need him but we cannot pass up on that type of talent no matter what. I just hope it don't take 5 picks to get it done either. I know Rockets can get a better package around the league then we can offer but maybe Harden wants to be with KD. If I'm the Rockets I'll probably hit up Philly before us honestly.

[Paradise]

Meh, I think it's way too early to fall for it (I know I did a trade post on it but that was more for fun). I just don't see Houston giving up Harden this early, and even if they somehow did, Philly is the obvious choice here.

Why would Houston’s new FO gift Harden to Morey and Rivers? Two guys who were supposed to be in Houston right now but Morey stepped down and took Rivers with him.

[TheNetsFan]

Houston might be the one team we can get away with trading Jordan to. I can see him upset about missing a chance at a ring, but finishing his career at home in Houston, especially with pandemic travel restrictions, might offset that.

[therealbig3]

I'll be honest...I don't think Harden makes us significantly better, because of serious diminishing returns between him and Kyrie. Harden clearly wants to dominate the ball, and so does Kyrie. And Durant isn't a super unselfish player either necessarily, he wants the ball too.

We'd be better off imo with Jrue Holiday or Robert Covington. Sometimes picking talent over fit isn't always the right answer, a great 3 and D player instead of a ball dominant superstar is preferable when you already have two perimeter guys that like to dominate the ball.

And to say nothing about our defense...

I'd also probably tune the TV off more than once if I had to watch a whole season of Harden-ball. It's brutal to watch.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'll be honest...I don't think Harden makes us significantly better, because of serious diminishing returns between him and Kyrie. Harden clearly wants to dominate the ball, and so does Kyrie. And Durant isn't a super unselfish player either necessarily, he wants the ball too.

We'd be better off imo with Jrue Holiday or Robert Covington. Sometimes picking talent over fit isn't always the right answer, a great 3 and D player instead of a ball dominant superstar is preferable when you already have two perimeter guys that like to dominate the ball.

And to say nothing about our defense...

I'd also probably tune the TV off more than once if I had to watch a whole season of Harden-ball. It's brutal to watch.

Watch on YouTube