Fixing the Mess Pt. 2 Sixers Offseason

[Arsenal]

So his son has indirectly confirmed what we've pretty much knew. the Houston Rockets are on their hands and knees for Ben Simmons, and (as per Shams) Morey isn't willing.

So we're going to hear a lot of "Deal is 99.9% complete with the Brooklyn Nets!!!!" stories for the next little while lol

Yeah this is good news. I mean good on Morey if he's trying to get the Rockets to cave, but if push comes to shove it's time to part with Ben.

It's not just trying to get them to cave. It's trying to lessen the overall price even if Ben is ultimately included.

Thank god we have Daryl Morey.

[skulky]

So his son has indirectly confirmed what we've pretty much knew. the Houston Rockets are on their hands and knees for Ben Simmons, and (as per Shams) Morey isn't willing.

So we're going to hear a lot of "Deal is 99.9% complete with the Brooklyn Nets!!!!" stories for the next little while lol

The rockets also just traded for pick 16, I wonder if there’s someone in the teens we have our eye on to put Simmons on the table.

[FireMorey]

Yes, Simmons is not top 15, he's top 25 though.

Morey is in a tough spot. Right now their championship window is nonexistent. They have no chance to win with this current core realistically with what they could trade for or add.

Harden gives them a window, but probably not a huge one. Although in fairness, the Lakers' roster outside of Lebron and Davis absolutely blows, so anything is possible.

Simmons and Embiid have already proven they aren't good enough alone to win a title. They need to be paired with a top 10 talent to make that happen. Will they be able to land a top 10 talent at some point in the future if they pass on Harden? Will Embiid and/or Simmons even be here when that next opportunity arises?(if it does).

I've always felt that one more disappointing season will have Embiid wanting the first ticket out of Philly. without Harden and with only window-dressing moves, the next season will surely be another disappointing season. People can say that adding Rivers and Morey reassured Embiid, and maybe it did... for now. But after the long grind of a season that is going to end in failure, who knows how Embiid will feel 6 months from now?

I think Harden at least keeps Embiid happy, along with giving them a championship window.

I think the most probable scenario if they don't trade for Harden is they stay as a 4-6 seed for the next few seasons. One of Embiid or Simmons leave at some point, and they start another semi rebuild.

See this thinking I don’t understand. They “proved they aren’t good enough” in their first 2 years ever in the playoffs and first 5 or less years ever in the league no where near their peak? How? Did brown and Tatum prove the same then? It’s been just as long for them. Two playoff losses in Ben’s first two seasons doesn’t constitute proving he can’t win. Not even REMOTELY. Did we write off bron that quick? Or better yet Steph and klay? Did they win in their first 2?

I think the difference with your examples is they showed the potential, it just wasn't all put together correctly from a roster construction standpoint. Everyone knew how good Lebron, Curry, and Klay were. And their games fit the modern era of basektball.

At this point Embiid and Simmons have not shown even an inkling that Embiid can stay healthy(or not tire out in games) and Simmons can develop a jumper. I think to assume they'll do either at this point is blind faith. And nothing will change for the Sixers until those things change. There was never any question about Lebron, Curry, or Klay as players. It was always were they coached well enough or surrounded with the right guys.

Simmons and Embiid were surrounded by a guy like Butler and Harris and against Toronto Simmons came up small and Embiid once again had a health/medical related issue that affected his play. Same old story with both of them every year.

So I'll grant you maybe me saying "they've proven" they can't win with them alone is a little too declarative. I'll say right now there are no indications they are good enough and assuming they will at any point is based off nothing but blind hope.

[Arsenal]

The Sixers dont have infinite time. Embiid is 26 and the team still hasnt tried to build anything sensible around him. How long is he going to wait? And how many more prime years do we think he has left? Similarly, Simmons might also want a team that makes him look better and plays to his strengths. I am pretty sure he is tired of people commenting on his shot all the time. Harris and Horford have also issues with their roles. I am not sure any player wants to run it back and if the next year is similar to the last, the Sixers might be forced to trade one of Embiid and Simmons and likely get much less than now.

It's Morey's job to get these guys to buy into the plan. That's why he's here.

As for not having infinite time, no team does. But that RUSH THE PROCESS mentality is what brought ruin to a once fantastic setup by Santa Hinkie with 3 years.

Daryl Morey isn't here to continue the same foolishness.

But what's the plan?

Running it back is not really an option, especially when you have other teams around the league making improvements. The players are not idiots, they can see that the current roster is not competing.

So what is really the plan? If you want to focus on Embiid, the best players to put next to him are Kawhi, Harden and pre injury Durant. The Sixers didnt want to trade for Kawhi 2 years ago. If they refuse to trade for Harden now it would be clear that they dont really have any intention to have a contending team around Embiid. That is something that Embiid sees and since he is getting older and has the looming risk of a serious injury he will be less and less content with the status quo.

Simmons is another misused player. Everyone knew his shooting flaws before the draft yet he is constantly judged based on this weakness. Imo he has limitations but he is still not allowed to reach his potential here. I am pretty sure he is also not happy with the current situation.

The difficulty of Morey's position is that he has to avoid making stupid moves but, at the same time, he has to make moves.

No. He does NOT have to make moves for the sake of making moves. Daryl Morey will wait until the RIGHT MOVE comes along. That's why he's a great GM.

[Arsenal]

Yes, Simmons is not top 15, he's top 25 though.

Morey is in a tough spot. Right now their championship window is nonexistent. They have no chance to win with this current core realistically with what they could trade for or add.

Harden gives them a window, but probably not a huge one. Although in fairness, the Lakers' roster outside of Lebron and Davis absolutely blows, so anything is possible.

Simmons and Embiid have already proven they aren't good enough alone to win a title. They need to be paired with a top 10 talent to make that happen. Will they be able to land a top 10 talent at some point in the future if they pass on Harden? Will Embiid and/or Simmons even be here when that next opportunity arises?(if it does).

I've always felt that one more disappointing season will have Embiid wanting the first ticket out of Philly. without Harden and with only window-dressing moves, the next season will surely be another disappointing season. People can say that adding Rivers and Morey reassured Embiid, and maybe it did... for now. But after the long grind of a season that is going to end in failure, who knows how Embiid will feel 6 months from now?

I think Harden at least keeps Embiid happy, along with giving them a championship window.

I think the most probable scenario if they don't trade for Harden is they stay as a 4-6 seed for the next few seasons. One of Embiid or Simmons leave at some point, and they start another semi rebuild.

See this thinking I don’t understand. They “proved they aren’t good enough” in their first 2 years ever in the playoffs and first 5 or less years ever in the league no where near their peak? How? Did brown and Tatum prove the same then? It’s been just as long for them. Two playoff losses in Ben’s first two seasons doesn’t constitute proving he can’t win. Not even REMOTELY. Did we write off bron that quick? Or better yet Steph and klay? Did they win in their first 2?

I think the difference with your examples is they showed the potential, it just wasn't all put together correctly from a roster construction standpoint. Everyone knew how good Lebron, Curry, and Klay were. And their games fit the modern era of basektball.

At this point Embiid and Simmons have not shown even an inkling that Embiid can stay healthy(or not tire out in games) and Simmons can develop a jumper. I think to assume they'll do either at this point is blind faith. And nothing will change for the Sixers until those things change. There was never any question about Lebron, Curry, or Klay as players. It was always were they coached well enough or surrounded with the right guys.

Simmons and Embiid were surrounded by a guy like Butler and Harris and against Toronto Simmons came up small and Embiid once again had a health/medical related issue that affected his play. Same old story with both of them every year.

So I'll grant you maybe me saying "they've proven" they can't win with them alone is a little too declarative. I'll say right now there are no indications they are good enough and assuming they will at any point is based off nothing but blind hope.

Holy small sample size Batman!!!

You're correct at the end. Way too declarative. They haven't had fitting pieces around them yet except sort of when they were 22 and 24 years old, and for that season only.

[fl311]

From what I’ve very recently heard, there is no Nets deal. Rockets want Simmons and Morey knows this. Sixers aren’t willing to trade Ben at this time.

That’s all I know so please don’t ask more question.

[Arsenal]

From what I’ve very recently heard, there is no Nets deal. Rockets want Simmons and Morey knows this. Sixers aren’t willing to trade Ben at this time.

That’s all I know so please don’t ask more question.

Okay, I won't ask if Morey is trying to muscle Ainge into taking Horford for Hayward.

[fl311]

From what I’ve very recently heard, there is no Nets deal. Rockets want Simmons and Morey knows this. Sixers aren’t willing to trade Ben at this time.

That’s all I know so please don’t ask more question.

Okay, I won't ask if Morey is trying to muscle Ainge into taking Horford for Hayward.

It’s amazing some posters aren’t GMs. Some quality moves discussed. Maybe I’ve tried to pass those on. LOL

[eyeatoma]

From what I’ve very recently heard, there is no Nets deal. Rockets want Simmons and Morey knows this. Sixers aren’t willing to trade Ben at this time.

That’s all I know so please don’t ask more question.

Fuuuuuck so this is very good. Daryl just do it...

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[stormi]

My thing with Morey is he knows he has the leverage in this scenario. Someone like Brand, to appease "DT RAW" getting on his case in his instagram dm's would have caved a while ago, and thrown in some extra draft picks for Houston's troubles. When Morey strikes I'll have full faith that it's because it was the most opportunistic point in time

[FireMorey]

See this thinking I don’t understand. They “proved they aren’t good enough” in their first 2 years ever in the playoffs and first 5 or less years ever in the league no where near their peak? How? Did brown and Tatum prove the same then? It’s been just as long for them. Two playoff losses in Ben’s first two seasons doesn’t constitute proving he can’t win. Not even REMOTELY. Did we write off bron that quick? Or better yet Steph and klay? Did they win in their first 2?

I think the difference with your examples is they showed the potential, it just wasn't all put together correctly from a roster construction standpoint. Everyone knew how good Lebron, Curry, and Klay were. And their games fit the modern era of basektball.

At this point Embiid and Simmons have not shown even an inkling that Embiid can stay healthy(or not tire out in games) and Simmons can develop a jumper. I think to assume they'll do either at this point is blind faith. And nothing will change for the Sixers until those things change. There was never any question about Lebron, Curry, or Klay as players. It was always were they coached well enough or surrounded with the right guys.

Simmons and Embiid were surrounded by a guy like Butler and Harris and against Toronto Simmons came up small and Embiid once again had a health/medical related issue that affected his play. Same old story with both of them every year.

So I'll grant you maybe me saying "they've proven" they can't win with them alone is a little too declarative. I'll say right now there are no indications they are good enough and assuming they will at any point is based off nothing but blind hope.

Holy small sample size Batman!!!

You're correct at the end. Way too declarative. They haven't had fitting pieces around them yet except sort of when they were 22 and 24 years old, and for that season only.

I mean, that's the only sample size we have. If you want to declare it an unknown, fine, but if it's too small a sample to say they aren't good enough by themselves to win a title, then the same applies for saying they can. Even more so, since at least in this sample(as small as it is) that's what the results have shown.

Again, there is absolutely nothing right now to suggest they are capable of doing so as a duo. Doesn't mean it's absolutely impossible, but I'd bet against it right now.

[SixthStreet]

I’ve been away from the news for the past few hours. Glad to have some insider confirmation that the Nets pile of crap is a non starter for Houston. It was obvious to me but much hysteria on Twitter over it.

[cool93]

Yeah, it's so refreshing to have faith in front office. No matter what we do this offseason, I'll believe that it was the best way.

Still gonna overreact, though.

[VDT]

It's Morey's job to get these guys to buy into the plan. That's why he's here.

As for not having infinite time, no team does. But that RUSH THE PROCESS mentality is what brought ruin to a once fantastic setup by Santa Hinkie with 3 years.

Daryl Morey isn't here to continue the same foolishness.

But what's the plan?

Running it back is not really an option, especially when you have other teams around the league making improvements. The players are not idiots, they can see that the current roster is not competing.

So what is really the plan? If you want to focus on Embiid, the best players to put next to him are Kawhi, Harden and pre injury Durant. The Sixers didnt want to trade for Kawhi 2 years ago. If they refuse to trade for Harden now it would be clear that they dont really have any intention to have a contending team around Embiid. That is something that Embiid sees and since he is getting older and has the looming risk of a serious injury he will be less and less content with the status quo.

Simmons is another misused player. Everyone knew his shooting flaws before the draft yet he is constantly judged based on this weakness. Imo he has limitations but he is still not allowed to reach his potential here. I am pretty sure he is also not happy with the current situation.

The difficulty of Morey's position is that he has to avoid making stupid moves but, at the same time, he has to make moves.

No. He does NOT have to make moves for the sake of making moves. Daryl Morey will wait until the RIGHT MOVE comes along. That's why he's a great GM.

He has to make the right moves but he doesnt have all the time in the world. Embiid could ask for a trade as soon as next year. That is what makes his position challenging.

[XtremeDunkz]

I'll trust Morey on this one. Trade Ben for Harden or don't. I'm fine either way. Both sides have merit.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Embiid-MVP]

I'm team trade whatever except Embiid. We can't wait years for the next opportunity or anything like that. Embiid is running out of time and we need to go for whatever right now. None of those other suggestions or theories make any sense if you're keeping Embiid. The time is now and now only

[Embiid-MVP]

Plus I just watched a Heat team that wasn't suppose to be that great turn out to be pretty damn awesome. Don't count us out yet. We brought in Doc and Morey for a reason. Let's go get it

[76thBearCub]

From what I’ve very recently heard, there is no Nets deal. Rockets want Simmons and Morey knows this. Sixers aren’t willing to trade Ben at this time.

That’s all I know so please don’t ask more question.

Interesting.

[cool93]

Laughed harder than I should have at this What a legend

Spoiler:

[mithrandir17]

So you’re saying both Simmons and Embiid will be top 5-7 NBA superstars in a year or two? Really?

Let’s see they are already top what 10 and 15? So yeah, I am saying that IF they take a step that’s where we’re at. Y’all are being HELLA short sighted on this

How did two top 15 NBA players got us only 6th seeded in the East?

Mediocre coach