Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion.

gflem · Post #401 » by **gflem** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:33 pm

I'm fine with Okoro, but am disappointed that there was nothing else. I thought Deni was going to be the pick once the Bulls took Williams and the Cavs didn't move down.

Post #402 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:45 pm

tundraknight wrote:I’m content with Okoro. I envision he’ll bring so much toughness and energy playing with his buddy and high school rival, The Young Bull.

But it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing Wiseman go to the Warriors.

Non-zero chance we get a call from the Warriors half way through the season if Wiseman struggles his rookie year. Wiggins and Curry are going to get abused on defense.

Post #403 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:48 pm

gflem wrote:I'm fine with Okoro, but am disappointed that there was nothing else. I thought Deni was going to be the pick once the Bulls took Williams and the Cavs didn't move down.

I never got the Deni love. He's tall for his position and can pass. But can't defend and can't shoot doesn't exactly jump out at me as someone you should be picking in the top 5.

LivingLegend · Post #404 » by **LivingLegend** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:50 pm

gflem wrote:I'm fine with Okoro, but am disappointed that there was nothing else. I thought Deni was going to be the pick once the Bulls took Williams and the Cavs didn't move down.

I think teams finally came to the conclusion that Deni Adjiva averaging 4/2/1 on 43/31/60 shooting percentages was too risky to bank on him figuring out and developing. I honestly think Deni would have been a draft+stash player for another year because if he played that poorly against Euroleague competition--there was no way he was going to have much of a impact in the NBA as a rookie.

JonFromVA · Post #405 » by **JonFromVA** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:53 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If we go out and sign Noel with the MLE, I'll get over it. Re-sign Henson if they whiff on Noel. But they need a rim protector because I don't think Drummond is in the long term plans and TT offers none. It's just crazy that the only rim protection on the roster since Mozgov walked was a few uninjured games of Henson and whatever Zizic offered in the third unit.

Perhaps the Cavs play here is to try to convince Drummond and Love to stick around? Or maybe the deals we're looking for, would address losing our starting C and PF? Do we entertain a S&T for Tristan?

Sometimes the media has a good read on our internal dysfunction, and sometimes they overblow things that can be worked out.

I mean Love is under contract and doesn't have much of a trade market so I'm not really worried about convincing him to stick around. As far as Drummond, his biggest defensive weakness is the 1-5 high PNR which just happens to be the most commonly run play in the NBA. Given the fact that all of Love, Sexton, and Garland also all suck at it, I don't think there's a way to make it work. You can put Okoro on the other team's PG and try to hide Sexton. You can maybe have Love check the screener and have Drummond rotate over at the rim in a junk zone. But it's just a lot easier if you have an athletic lengthy big all the way out there who can frustrate the point of attack and still recover on the roll.

My point here is that according to the media the only thing Love, Drummond, or even Thompson want out of the Cavs is that we can potentially get them paid AND put them on another team. But maybe, it's not that cut & dry ... maybe they'd be happy to be paid and play for the Cavs if they felt we were going to compete. And perhaps Okoro is a sign that we're looking to fix our defense with them .vs. replace them.

As for Drummond and our defense, team D should never be as cut & dry as a single flaw. We all saw Zydrunas Illgauskus and his leaden feet playing show & recover when nobody thought he could move that far that fast. More recently we've seen Brook Lopez anchor the league's top defense (and he just drops back), and when Drummond was on the Pistons they were respectable on D.

So, it's not just one player wrecking the D or fixing it, it's the group figuring out how to defend together as a unit and the coach implementing a system that fits the personnel and achieving buy-in.

That's why it's important whether these guys are "fitting in" or "fitting out" ... if they're just bidding their time until they're on another team, they will sabotage any chance we have to build a defensive identity.

If we drafted Toppin or Okowungu the message would have been more along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

LivingLegend · Post #406 » by **LivingLegend** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:20 pm

Is there any FA signings we could make? I know we arnt going to get anybody high end but is there another guy out there thats a mid-level type guy we could get? I know it was probably Jerami Grant before his bubble explosion so hes off the table.

Is Derrick Jones a option? In a crazy world could we throw a bag of money at Bogdonovic?

Post #407 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:35 pm

LivingLegend wrote:Is there any FA signings we could make? I know we arnt going to get anybody high end but is there another guy out there thats a mid-level type guy we could get? I know it was probably Jerami Grant before his bubble explosion so hes off the table.

Is Derrick Jones a option? In a crazy world could we throw a bag of money at Bogdonovic?

I really, really want the Cavs to use at least part of the MLE on a center not named TT. Noel is my preference, but anyone who can offer rim protection and some athleticism would be fine.

LivingLegend · Post #408 » by **LivingLegend** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Is there any FA signings we could make? I know we arnt going to get anybody high end but is there another guy out there thats a mid-level type guy we could get? I know it was probably Jerami Grant before his bubble explosion so hes off the table.

Is Derrick Jones a option? In a crazy world could we throw a bag of money at Bogdonovic?

I really, really want the Cavs to use at least part of the MLE on a center not named TT. Noel is my preference, but anyone who can offer rim protection and some athleticism would be fine.

No offense to Noel but it there anybody younger and maybe better long term than him. Maybe somebody who is looking for a chance of scenery or a guy ready to break out given more mins?

Stillwater · Post #409 » by **Stillwater** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:42 pm

Plumlee would be a solid pickup looked good in Denver past couple seasons

Post #410 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:44 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Perhaps the Cavs play here is to try to convince Drummond and Love to stick around? Or maybe the deals we're looking for, would address losing our starting C and PF? Do we entertain a S&T for Tristan?

Sometimes the media has a good read on our internal dysfunction, and sometimes they overblow things that can be worked out.

I mean Love is under contract and doesn't have much of a trade market so I'm not really worried about convincing him to stick around. As far as Drummond, his biggest defensive weakness is the 1-5 high PNR which just happens to be the most commonly run play in the NBA. Given the fact that all of Love, Sexton, and Garland also all suck at it, I don't think there's a way to make it work. You can put Okoro on the other team's PG and try to hide Sexton. You can maybe have Love check the screener and have Drummond rotate over at the rim in a junk zone. But it's just a lot easier if you have an athletic lengthy big all the way out there who can frustrate the point of attack and still recover on the roll.

My point here is that according to the media the only thing Love, Drummond, or even Thompson want out of the Cavs is that we can potentially get them paid AND put them on another team. But maybe, it's not that cut & dry ... maybe they'd be happy to be paid and play for the Cavs if they felt we were going to compete. And perhaps Okoro is a sign that we're looking to fix our defense with them .vs. replace them.

As for Drummond and our defense, team D should never be as cut & dry as a single flaw. We all saw Zydrunas Illgauskus and his leaden feet playing show & recover when nobody thought he could move that far that fast. More recently we've seen Brook Lopez anchor the league's top defense (and he just drops back), and when Drummond was on the Pistons they were respectable on D.

So, it's not just one player wrecking the D or fixing it, it's the group figuring out how to defend together as a unit and the coach implementing a system that fits the personnel and achieving buy-in.

That's why it's important whether these guys are "fitting in" or "fitting out" ... if they're just bidding their time until they're on another team, they will sabotage any chance we have to build a defensive identity.

If we drafted Toppin or Okowungu the message would have been more along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

Sorry, but personnel matters. Brook plays with an athletic 7 foot shot blocker alongside him in the starting unit. His lay back and play center field approach was exposed pretty badly against the Heat. Big Z played on some pretty good defensive teams as well. You can hide a guy or two on defense so long as you get buy in. You can't hide three bad defenders in your starting unit. No amount of buy in going to make Garland and Sexton work in the same backcourt defensively.

LivingLegend · Post #411 » by **LivingLegend** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:47 pm

Stillwater wrote:Plumlee would be a solid pickup looked good in Denver past couple seasons

Wouldnt mind Plumlee. Hes mobile and can play some defense at the expense of getting dunked on 10x per year lol

Post #412 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:50 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Plumlee would be a solid pickup looked good in Denver past couple seasons

Wouldnt mind Plumlee. Hes mobile and can play some defense at the expense of getting dunked on 10x per year lol

I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

Stillwater · Post #413 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Plumlee would be a solid pickup looked good in Denver past couple seasons

Wouldnt mind Plumlee. Hes mobile and can play some defense at the expense of getting dunked on 10x per year lol

I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

LivingLegend · Post #414 » by **LivingLegend** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:06 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Wouldnt mind Plumlee. Hes mobile and can play some defense at the expense of getting dunked on 10x per year lol

I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

Kenneth Faried? What the hell happened to that guy, he was a monster early with DEN and then out of nowhere turned into complete garbage

Stillwater · Post #415 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:07 am

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

Kenneth Faried?

hes cooked though at this point imo
Plumlee is just a stop gap option hes already 30 but hes still useful.
Id rather have a mobile big like Okongwu but I digress

Harper4Ferry? · Post #416 » by **Harper4Ferry?** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:08 am

Plumlee plays a lot of good minutes and I would take him in a heartbeat. I watch Denver a ton and they've basically been second favorite team for awhile.

Stillwater · Post #417 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:13 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Plumlee would be a solid pickup looked good in Denver past couple seasons

Wouldnt mind Plumlee. Hes mobile and can play some defense at the expense of getting dunked on 10x per year lol

I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

I guess he has lost a step by now but he had the 2nd fastest lateral quickness measurement in the lane agility at the combine for any big in combine history and hes always been extremely explosive off two feet. I think he would be a decent stop gap pick up if a younger Noel type is not available

Post #418 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:15 am

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'd be looking for more lateral quickness and athleticism at that position. You can find a guy who can give 85-90% of what Plumlee can give you for the at or near the league minimum.

I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

Kenneth Faried? What the hell happened to that guy, he was a monster early with DEN and then out of nowhere turned into complete garbage

My top three targets are Noel, Howard, and Biyombo, WCS. Poetl is a RFA. Favors, Giles, Bobby Portis, and Jymichael Green are also available. There are a lot of quality big men who are FAs this year, like a lot, and not enough money to go around.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-center-market-212748528.html

https://www.yahoo.com/now/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-power-forward-market-191745735.html

Stillwater · Post #419 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:16 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

Kenneth Faried? What the hell happened to that guy, he was a monster early with DEN and then out of nowhere turned into complete garbage

My top three targets are Noel, Howard, and Biombo, WCS. Poetl is a RFA. Favors, Giles, Bobby Portis, and Jymichael Green are also available. There are a lot of quality big men who are FAs this year, like a lot, and not enough money to go around.

forgot about WCS that might be a nice pickup as well.

LivingLegend · Post #420 » by **LivingLegend** » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:19 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I was just thinking of a athletic as f rim runner who has been in the league long enough to do the dirty work and assume the 3rd big role without issue.

Kenneth Faried? What the hell happened to that guy, he was a monster early with DEN and then out of nowhere turned into complete garbage

My top three targets are Noel, Howard, and Biyombo, WCS. Poetl is a RFA. Favors, Giles, Bobby Portis, and Jymichael Green are also available. There are a lot of quality big men who are FAs this year, like a lot, and not enough money to go around.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-center-market-212748528.html

https://www.yahoo.com/now/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-power-forward-market-191745735.html

Whats your opinion of Harry Giles? Hes only 22 and wasnt he highly regarded coming out?