Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread.

Post #141 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Sun Aug 9, 2020 5:16 pm

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think he is the youngster on your team with the highest ceiling. Guess it helps that he's also the youngest.

payitforward · Post #142 » by **payitforward** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:50 pm

Leaving aside comparisons with other youngsters, for sure Isaac Bonga is already good & headed towards a long, productive NBA career.

Post #143 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:07 pm

If Bonga gets a little better skill-wise and a little better body-wise each year, I'd like to fast-forward a few years and see what we have.

doclinkin · Post #144 » by **doclinkin** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:00 am

Watch on YouTube

DCZards · Post #145 » by **DCZards** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:20 am

doclinkin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Thanks for posting.

Great to see Bonga! Bonga! working on his skills. Kid has a chance to be a very good NBA player.

Video also provided some insight into the kind of drills they're doing at Big Guard U.

Post #146 » by **nate33** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:16 pm

doclinkin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Good find, doc.

I've been looking for Bonga footage and haven't found anything.

I was curious if he has bulked up a bit, but he is wearing sweat pants and a baggy t-shirt so it's hard to tell. The only thing I take away from this video is that Bonga has a very tight handle. His dribbling skills look real good in those drills.

Post #147 » by **Ruzious** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:18 pm

doclinkin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Man, watching that - I wonder why DeAndre Hunter had such a tough rookie year - he's so talented - as is NAW. Payton Pritchard does everything so naturally on offense - but he'll have a LOT of trouble defending anyone. He got a lot of steal in college, but I don't think that will translate. Yuta Watanabe - wow can he ever shoot - with range out to 30 feet, and he looked polished - with good SF size. Memphis has a nice role player there.

prime1time · Post #148 » by **prime1time** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:21 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Man, watching that - I wonder why DeAndre Hunter had such a tough rookie year - he's so talented - as is NAW. Payton Pritchard does everything so naturally on offense - but he'll have a LOT of trouble defending anyone. He got a lot of steal in college, but I don't think that will translate. Yuta Watanabe - wow can he ever shoot - with range out to 30 feet, and he looked polished - with good SF size. Memphis has a nice role player there.

Can’t use pick up to evaluate. I just don’t think his offense was ready. And the fact that Trae is so ball
dominant hurts him. Learning how to play off someone is a skill in and of itself. I expect him to struggle again this year.

TGW · Post #149 » by **TGW** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:54 pm

De'Andre Hunter is going to be good this year. He has the soul and work ethic of an old pro.

wall_glizzy · Post #150 » by **wall_glizzy** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:Man, watching that - I wonder why DeAndre Hunter had such a tough rookie year - he's so talented - as is NAW. Payton Pritchard does everything so naturally on offense - but he'll have a LOT of trouble defending anyone. He got a lot of steal in college, but I don't think that will translate. Yuta Watanabe - wow can he ever shoot - with range out to 30 feet, and he looked polished - with good SF size. Memphis has a nice role player there.

Both he and Cam Reddish really picked it up as the year went along, but their numbers in the first month or two were so bad - especially in Reddish's case - that their performance across the entire year still looks pretty crummy. I think at least one of those guys, and very possibly both, are gonna be serious contributors sooner than expected.

Post #151 » by **Ruzious** » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:16 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Man, watching that - I wonder why DeAndre Hunter had such a tough rookie year - he's so talented - as is NAW. Payton Pritchard does everything so naturally on offense - but he'll have a LOT of trouble defending anyone. He got a lot of steal in college, but I don't think that will translate. Yuta Watanabe - wow can he ever shoot - with range out to 30 feet, and he looked polished - with good SF size. Memphis has a nice role player there.

Both he and Cam Reddish really picked it up as the year went along, but their numbers in the first month or two were so bad - especially in Reddish's case - that their performance across the entire year still looks pretty crummy. I think at least one of those guys, and very possibly both, are gonna be huge contributors sooner than expected.

Yeah, with most rookies, it's smart to back out their 1st half of the year stats - Tyler Herro was another who was so much better in the 2nd half.

Meliorus · Post #152 » by **Meliorus** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:34 am

Is anyone else worried about Bonga's playing time with all these new additions? Is there a chance he'll be left to rot on DNP's? Like a few others in here, I feel like he has the highest upside out of all the young guys. I don't know how Troy Brown, Deni, Bonga, and Rui (he might get some minutes at the 3) all will play.

prime1time · Post #153 » by **prime1time** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:19 am

Meliorus wrote:Is anyone else worried about Bonga's playing time with all these new additions? Is there a chance he'll be left to rot on DNP's? Like a few others in here, I feel like he has the highest upside out of all the young guys. I don't know how Troy Brown, Deni, Bonga, and Rui (he might get some minutes at the 3) all will play.

It is clear by drafting Advija what they thought about Bonga. Yes, he will get limited minutes. And no I'm not concerned. This is what happens when you upgrade positions.

NatP4 · Post #154 » by **NatP4** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:36 am

One easy way to improve is to just play Bonga more. He’s good. Yes, I am concerned.

DCZards · Post #155 » by **DCZards** » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:14 pm

Hard to take issue with adding a highly regarded prospect like Deni even if it means less minutes for Bomga or Rui or Troy.

They'll all be competing for minutes. That's an incentive for each of them to work on their games and, hopefully, improve.

I_Like_Dirt · Post #156 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:14 am

Meliorus wrote:Is anyone else worried about Bonga's playing time with all these new additions? Is there a chance he'll be left to rot on DNP's? Like a few others in here, I feel like he has the highest upside out of all the young guys. I don't know how Troy Brown, Deni, Bonga, and Rui (he might get some minutes at the 3) all will play.

The worry is more to do with team strategy. The team could easily find minutes for all of them. Rui plays mostly PF. Brown can play backup guard minutes rather easily and there seems to be talk of trying him at PV a bit. Deni can get minutes all over, too. It's easy to get 28+ mpg for all of them if the team feels they've earned them, even with Bertans there. My concern is more about if the team winds up playing a bunch of veteran guards who aren't very good and confining those 4 to forward minutes, at which point there will be issues.

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payitforward · Post #157 » by **payitforward** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 11:17 pm

dckingsfan wrote:...Bonga played 72% at SF and 25% at PF with a defensive rebounding percentage of 13.8 (and abysmal defensive rebounding as a rookie). Not talking about offensive rebounding at this point. That is guardish territory . But this is a team game, right? So, if you have another player that rebounds well for his position, it tends to average out. Which was the positive comment about having Westbrook on the team (or TBJ for that matter).

@dckingsfan -- I'm just trying to *understand* this. Not in the business of defending or justifying Bonga. So, question marks not attempts to prove/disprove anything

Bonga's rookie year -- c'mon man. He played 120 minutes. None of his rookie numbers, good or bad, can be used to characterize him as a player. But, what the heck... I looked it up: 13.5%.

Huh.... About the same as with us. So, if that's "abysmal," maybe we do have a problem here.

At which point, suddenly, I realized... I haven't looked at any other 3's! You know... to see what their DRB%s were. I should do that!

B/c some here were talking about Moe Harkless as a possible FA, I started with him -- but... his career defensive rebounding % is 12% "Hmmm," I thought, "that seems odd." Probably just a unicorn, however.

So I looked up Jimmy Butler. 11.9% on his career. Whoa....

Butler has had a defensive rebounding percentage higher than 11.6 in only 3 of his 9 years. Still, he did post 15.4% last year. I was encouraged to look further.

Khris Middleton 13.9% on his career (.1% above Bonga).
OG Anunoby... 12.1% on his career.
Andre Iguodala -- 14% on his career (.2% higher than than the 20 year old Isaac Bonga playing his first real NBA minutes).

I decided to look up the best SF in the league, maybe the best player in the league (certainly one of the top handful!), Kawhi Leonard, and... finally!... a 3 with a significantly higher defensive rebounding % -- 18.1% on his career.

"Whew," I thought; "finally we're getting someplace!"

But then I wondered... won't some people consider it unfair to compare Isaac Bonga, just getting started, with one of the very best players in the league! Won't that seem unfair?

It might make more sense to compare him to, say, Mikal Bridges (12.4%), Lonnie Walker (12.7%), Cam Johnson (12.4%), Jerami Grant (13.2%), T.J. Warren (10.6%), Joe Ingles (12.6%), & then...

I gave up. You can only resist the data for so long, right?

It really does kind of look like Isaac Bonga is actually a "pretty good" defensive rebounder at the 3. Especially for a 20-year-old kid logging his first NBA minutes. Especially when you realize that Harrison Barnes, who has been in the NBA for 8 years, features a career defensive rebounding % of 13.8% -- identical to Bonga's this year.

dckingsfan · Post #158 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 1:32 am

Well, first your point on Bonga being young is dead-on, note that I threw out the rookie numbers too - we are on the same page there.

Next, Bonga could EASILY make the leap this year to good rebounder (14+). But maybe we should clarify definitions. And that is on me. I think of someone who is good = above average for his position. And here am comparing Bonga to SF/PF's (because that is what he played). Hollis-Jefferson, Gordon Hayward, JaKarr Sampson, Jonathan Isaac, etc., would be the types of players that I consider "good" at defensive rebounding.

But before we dive off into the metrics, let me again state my original point. If you have good defensive rebounders on your team, it takes pressure off of the other players on defense. That is my only point. So, having Westbrook out there picking up defensive rebounds helps the overall defensive rebounding of the team.

But it is just defensive rebounding... I am taking something in a vacuum that doesn't belong there (defensive rebounding against overall defense) ... but hey, it's just us chickens talk'n

payitforward · Post #159 » by **payitforward** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 3:06 am

All good points -- & to be sure, he can make a jump from 13.8 to 14+. That's just a couple of % better -- within the realm of random variation really.

Every defensive rebound is an extra possession for your team. If, instead, you give up an offensive board, it's an extra possession for your opponent. Because teams will always score on some % of their possessions, every defensive rebound keeps points off the board. It is defense, IOW; it might be the single most important part of defense.

dckingsfan · Post #160 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 2:38 pm

payitforward wrote:All good points -- & to be sure, he can make a jump from 13.8 to 14+. That's just a couple of % better -- within the realm of random variation really.

Every defensive rebound is an extra possession for your team. If, instead, you give up an offensive board, it's an extra possession for your opponent. Because teams will always score on some % of their possessions, every defensive rebound keeps points off the board. It is defense, IOW; it might be the single most important part of defense.

So we agree. My guess is we agree on the other point. When you have a player that is special at defensive rebounding at his position, it is very helpful.