Rumors and Discussion Thread (NYK and NBA) V - Elfrid Payton Sucks

[K_ick_God]

If I had to bet on Gordon’s over under I honestly have said $8M with a ceiling of maybe $15M. Got double that.

[Guano]

Still can't believe Hayward got $120,000,000

and not from us

[moocow007]

Should offer Isaiah Thomas a 2 year $10 million deal with a mutual option for year 2. Appears that he's pain free for the first time since his MVP season and ready to go. Sure he's not the same player he used to he but if he's healthy even at 31 he can still make a bigger impact than Payton. If he does well then you can look to being him back next season or deal him at the deadline to a team looking for what he can do. If he doesn't do well then you use him for his vet leadership and backup minutes while he helps your young guards learn what it takes to beat adversity and win games. Thomas shot 41% from 3 this past season starting 37 games for the Wizards.

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We already have a younger version with better hips in Jared Harper.

Sounds like he's feeling great now. Harper isn't Thomas even the broken hip Thomas. It hurts nothing if he gets injured again (Knicks will suck) and has a lot of upside if he can return to a percentage of his former self (they'll actually have a PG that can do something and that they may be able to trade at the deadline for a pick).

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[Bob Ross]

I thought he'd get $25 mill

[Dave DaButcher]

ESPN surprisingly positive on our FA moves so far.

Spoiler:

Perhaps it is a new day in New York, as the Knicks' three moves so far in free agency have shown admirable restraint and reasonable value.

I was a little surprised that New York waived Payton on Thursday before the remaining $7 million of his $8 million salary became fully guaranteed for 2020-21. Well, that made a lot more sense when the Knicks were able to bring him back for $5 million. Payton, who started 36 of the 45 games he played last season, is a capable transitional point guard for a team like New York lacking a long-term starter at the position.

Payton's value was perhaps best reflected by the 17 games he missed due to a hamstring strain in late October, during which the Knicks went 2-15 and head coach David Fizdale lost his job. New York's offensive rating was 7.0 points per 100 possessions better with Payton on the court, according to NBA Advanced Stats, second to Marcus Morris Sr. among Knicks regulars.

Assuming he comes off the bench, adding Alec Burks should help New York score when Payton sits. Quietly, Burks was one of the league's better reserves last season, averaging 16.1 points per game before being traded by the Golden State Warriors to the Philadelphia 76ers at the deadline. He's developed from a shooting liability into a strong threat off the dribble, hitting 1.8 3-pointers per game at a 38.5% clip in 2019-20.

Given Burks' reasonable salary and his skill set, I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks are able to get a second-round pick or two for him at the deadline. Same with Noel, although teams have never been willing to rely on him as much as his advanced stats would suggest.

Throughout his career, Noel's teams have consistently defended better with him on the court. Last season, his plus-0.7 defensive rating in ESPN's real plus-minus ranked 20th among centers. Pairing Noel with incumbent Mitchell Robinson ensures New York 48 minutes of strong shot blocking and above-the-rim finishing on offense.

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, New York still has $21 million in cap space remaining, or possibly more if either Noel or Payton could be signed using the $4.8 million room exception. We'll see whether the Knicks can continue to use the rest of it in a responsible manner. They're running out of roster spots with 14 players on NBA deals.

[Polk377]

If I had to bet on Gordon’s over under I honestly have said $8M with a ceiling of maybe $15M. Got double that.

I think people are underrating Hayward a little bit. He still put up 17ppg with solid all around numbers last year as the 4th option.

[DaGawd]

I thought he'd get $25 mill

Everybody getting paid this off season

[Jose7]

The Knicks managed to put together the perfect roster to ruin the development of every player on it, particularly their prized prospects. It's truly, truly remarkable.

amazing they cant run ****

[thebuzzardman]

Never want to hear NBA owners or Silver cry poverty again

[moocow007]

ESPN surprisingly positive on our FA moves so far.

Spoiler:

Perhaps it is a new day in New York, as the Knicks' three moves so far in free agency have shown admirable restraint and reasonable value.

I was a little surprised that New York waived Payton on Thursday before the remaining $7 million of his $8 million salary became fully guaranteed for 2020-21. Well, that made a lot more sense when the Knicks were able to bring him back for $5 million. Payton, who started 36 of the 45 games he played last season, is a capable transitional point guard for a team like New York lacking a long-term starter at the position.

Payton's value was perhaps best reflected by the 17 games he missed due to a hamstring strain in late October, during which the Knicks went 2-15 and head coach David Fizdale lost his job. New York's offensive rating was 7.0 points per 100 possessions better with Payton on the court, according to NBA Advanced Stats, second to Marcus Morris Sr. among Knicks regulars.

Assuming he comes off the bench, adding Alec Burks should help New York score when Payton sits. Quietly, Burks was one of the league's better reserves last season, averaging 16.1 points per game before being traded by the Golden State Warriors to the Philadelphia 76ers at the deadline. He's developed from a shooting liability into a strong threat off the dribble, hitting 1.8 3-pointers per game at a 38.5% clip in 2019-20.

Given Burks' reasonable salary and his skill set, I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks are able to get a second-round pick or two for him at the deadline. Same with Noel, although teams have never been willing to rely on him as much as his advanced stats would suggest.

Throughout his career, Noel's teams have consistently defended better with him on the court. Last season, his plus-0.7 defensive rating in ESPN's real plus-minus ranked 20th among centers. Pairing Noel with incumbent Mitchell Robinson ensures New York 48 minutes of strong shot blocking and above-the-rim finishing on offense.

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, New York still has $21 million in cap space remaining, or possibly more if either Noel or Payton could be signed using the $4.8 million room exception. We'll see whether the Knicks can continue to use the rest of it in a responsible manner. They're running out of roster spots with 14 players on NBA deals.

All kidding aside, the stiffs i mean vets Rose has signed is better than the ones Mills signed (in terms of today's game) and he's gotten them for less. But at the end of the day, an organ grinder monkey could have probably done just as well as Mills did so its not saying all that much is it? You coulda handed the monkey a stack of larger than necessary presigned 1 year deals and sent him out on the corner asking vets if they are interested, first come first serve and hed have done just as well.

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[K_ick_God]

If I had to bet on Gordon’s over under I honestly have said $8M with a ceiling of maybe $15M. Got double that.

I think people are underrating Hayward a little bit. He still put up 17ppg with solid all around numbers last year as the 4th option.

Fair. He wasn’t bad. And stayed mostly healthy but basically a Max? Seems sort of just on rep but to be fair I wanted him on that. And he’s still young but back to great? Seems like a long shot.

[Clyde Ward]

Should offer Isaiah Thomas a 2 year $10 million deal with a mutual option for year 2. Appears that he's pain free for the first time since his MVP season and ready to go. Sure he's not the same player he used to he but if he's healthy even at 31 he can still make a bigger impact than Payton. If he does well then you can look to being him back next season or deal him at the deadline to a team looking for what he can do. If he doesn't do well then you use him for his vet leadership and backup minutes while he helps your young guards learn what it takes to beat adversity and win games. Thomas shot 41% from 3 this past season starting 37 games for the Wizards.

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don't mind this at all - it would get a semblance of veteran leadership and playmaking WITH a 3-point shot to keep the floor spaced and the defense honest.

It'll allow RJ and Mitch some room - still need to see how Toppin meshes, but would be better / more strategic that Payton running point.

[Oscirus]

i'm just saying if it doesn't, fire these guys. if they even make it to then.

RJ, Obi, or next years pick have to be legit for us to bring anyone here. Which means most likely these guys are getting fired.

I love RJ, he's my favorite Knick by far and I hope he plays his entire career in NY.

But I think he was gone the second Leon Rose entered MSG.

I don't see how they're keeping him unless he becomes an All-Star in his second season.

Rose's mandate is to bring stars to MSG. That's what James Dolan hired him for.

They are literally drafting to RJ's strengths. Might not be untouchable if a franchise player comes along, but they do have him figured into the future

[K_ick_God]

You may laugh but the fact that Timmy had an improvement in DAL after he left, sort of, probably helps us move Julius.

Teams could say it’s just being a Knick and by teams I mean MJ.

[moocow007]

Should offer Isaiah Thomas a 2 year $10 million deal with a mutual option for year 2. Appears that he's pain free for the first time since his MVP season and ready to go. Sure he's not the same player he used to he but if he's healthy even at 31 he can still make a bigger impact than Payton. If he does well then you can look to being him back next season or deal him at the deadline to a team looking for what he can do. If he doesn't do well then you use him for his vet leadership and backup minutes while he helps your young guards learn what it takes to beat adversity and win games. Thomas shot 41% from 3 this past season starting 37 games for the Wizards.

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don't mind this at all - it would get a semblance of veteran leadership and playmaking WITH a 3-point shot to keep the floor spaced and the defense honest.

It'll allow RJ and Mitch some room - still need to see how Toppin meshes, but would be better / more strategic that Payton running point.

Yep. This would be the type of move I'd do if my preferred options fail. You take a few low risk gambles and see if any lets you hit some gold.

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[Gravy]

ESPN surprisingly positive on our FA moves so far.

Spoiler:

Perhaps it is a new day in New York, as the Knicks' three moves so far in free agency have shown admirable restraint and reasonable value.

I was a little surprised that New York waived Payton on Thursday before the remaining $7 million of his $8 million salary became fully guaranteed for 2020-21. Well, that made a lot more sense when the Knicks were able to bring him back for $5 million. Payton, who started 36 of the 45 games he played last season, is a capable transitional point guard for a team like New York lacking a long-term starter at the position.

Payton's value was perhaps best reflected by the 17 games he missed due to a hamstring strain in late October, during which the Knicks went 2-15 and head coach David Fizdale lost his job. New York's offensive rating was 7.0 points per 100 possessions better with Payton on the court, according to NBA Advanced Stats, second to Marcus Morris Sr. among Knicks regulars.

Assuming he comes off the bench, adding Alec Burks should help New York score when Payton sits. Quietly, Burks was one of the league's better reserves last season, averaging 16.1 points per game before being traded by the Golden State Warriors to the Philadelphia 76ers at the deadline. He's developed from a shooting liability into a strong threat off the dribble, hitting 1.8 3-pointers per game at a 38.5% clip in 2019-20.

Given Burks' reasonable salary and his skill set, I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks are able to get a second-round pick or two for him at the deadline. Same with Noel, although teams have never been willing to rely on him as much as his advanced stats would suggest.

Throughout his career, Noel's teams have consistently defended better with him on the court. Last season, his plus-0.7 defensive rating in ESPN's real plus-minus ranked 20th among centers. Pairing Noel with incumbent Mitchell Robinson ensures New York 48 minutes of strong shot blocking and above-the-rim finishing on offense.

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, New York still has $21 million in cap space remaining, or possibly more if either Noel or Payton could be signed using the $4.8 million room exception. We'll see whether the Knicks can continue to use the rest of it in a responsible manner. They're running out of roster spots with 14 players on NBA deals.

New York's offensive rating was 7.0 points per 100 possessions better with Payton on the court, according to NBA Advanced Stats,

[bleedblue3303]

Really?

I am a cool guy too.

I wonder if I have a shot earning 5M just to tell jokes and keep the morale high.

You could swap salary cap tales with Brock!

The reality your salary and mine are not the same as an NBA player. Even a bench warmer. Its not a good comparison. We need to spend x amount of dollars. A player who knows the team, surrounding, and landscape who is an amazing influence on the young guys is worth 1 year 5 million.

[bleedblue3303]

Alec Burke and Noel are perfect guys to give minutes to till the allstar break and then trade them to contenders for low draft picks. If we do that. These moves are amazing!

[K_ick_God]

You gotta think that all the money Jordan made as a player and NIKE brand starter has made him reckless with cash. He seems to not care at all about the cap lol.

[MaseInYourFace]

If I had to bet on Gordon’s over under I honestly have said $8M with a ceiling of maybe $15M. Got double that.

I think people are underrating Hayward a little bit. He still put up 17ppg with solid all around numbers last year as the 4th option.

Fair. He wasn’t bad. And stayed mostly healthy but basically a Max? Seems sort of just on rep but to be fair I wanted him on that. And he’s still young but back to great? Seems like a long shot.

It’s Charlotte though so I’m not surprised. Not at all.