Triple C wrote:
Setting it up so they laugh at us when we pick 7th
Moderators: mpharris36, GONYK, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule
Triple C wrote:
god shammgod wrote:Triple C wrote:
berman basically saying, don't fall for the okie doke. they just couldn't get anybody to take their money. well damn.The Knicks entered free agency with a league-high $40 million in cap space and with heady visions. They wanted to be a major playoff threat in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season and bring glamour back to the Garden – even if it might be empty for the 36-game home schedule.
That is why they drafted a more ready-made forward in native New Yorker Obi Toppin, age 22, over Israeli project forward Deni Avdija, 19, when both surprisingly dropped to No. 8.
Avdija, a playmaking forward, could be the next…Gordon Hayward. The Israeli had his fans in the Knicks organization.
The Knicks acted like a title contender on Wednesday’s draft night when they wanted to keep open a roster spot for free agency and decided to hastily trade the 33rd pick in the draft – which most executives covet – for a 2023 second-round pick. They had little time to wheel as all their targets came off the board, including Duke center Vernon Carey Jr. at 32.
Those are not the actions of a rebuilding team, but one looking to turn around its miserable fortunes right away in a hurried, chaotic 2020-21 season. They wanted to give star-caliber coach Thibodeau, who usually doesn’t covet rookies, the best chance.
As it unfolded on Blue Saturday, the Knicks went from potentially being a legit playoff contender (10 teams qualify in each conference) to competing for the No. 1 lottery seed in the 2021 draft with a chance at 6-7 combo guard Cade Cunningham of Oklahoma State. He’s the NBA’s Trevor Lawrence.
Things can change, of course, if Russell Westbrook happens. Suddenly, the three years, $131 million left on his contract doesn’t look so unappealing for the 32-year-old point guard. If the Knicks decide to go after it, they’d only execute a trade for a big discount.
The dreamboat scenario for Rose’s squad was using much of their cap space to sign DJ Augustin to start at point guard and Gordon Hayward and Carmelo Anthony to plug in as the forwards.
The Post has learned once the Knicks found out recently that point guard Fred VanVleet only had eyes on staying in Toronto to continue his close bond with backcourt mate Kyle Lowry, Augustin became their top priority at PG.
Don’t believe a published report the Knicks were not willing to give VanVleet the four years, $85 million the Raptors offered. Sources say they would have done it in a heartbeat.
But that’s irrelevant. VanVleet wanted to stay. The bigger issue is why they couldn’t land Augustin. Knicks GM Scott Perry, according to sources, adored Augustin when he had him in Orlando. Augustin is not a Creative Artists Agency client and Rose did not have the edge.
Augustin signed with the powerful Milwaukee Bucks for three years, $21 million. The Knicks would have had to massively overpay.
Thibodeau considered his former Minnesota PG, Jeff Teague, as a possibility but he wasn’t too high on the list and they let him sign with Boston for one year.
Ultimately, the staff didn’t think it was too much of an upgrade over CAA-controlled Elfrid Payton, their starting point guard in 2019-20, who inked a new one-year, $5 million deal.
Yes, Perry still is in love with Payton, whom he drafted in Orlando.
The biggest downer was not being able to get Hayward to New York. They were not willing to risk Hayward’s injury history by coming close to matching Charlotte’s four-year, $120 million offer.
The Knicks entered free agency feeling they could sign Hayward for two years. Hayward’s pact was a major overpay by Charlotte. Plus, Hayward had some interest but it didn’t seem the former Butler forward really wanted to be here. His hometown Pacers were his top choice.
So far, the Knicks just haven’t bolstered the roster in a significant way on the first two days of free agency, What does it say when even Anthony preferred to be on a playoff team in Portland and repay the Blazers for resuscitating his career than New York? Anthony had to say no to his beloved former agent. So did former Rose client Chris Paul, whose addition originally was Plan A-plus before he was traded to the Suns.
Those events actually might be the best two things not to happen. On Blue Saturday. Rose got saved from himself. Tank on.
snadler wrote:So if you believe Berman the plan was to compete and nobody wanted the Knicks money even Augustin..like ive been saying having cap space and winning 20 games continually and nobody is taking the money, you have to start putting a winning product on the floor and change the perception of being the laughing stock of the nba
snadler wrote:So if you believe Berman the plan was to compete and nobody wanted the Knicks money even Augustin..like ive been saying having cap space and winning 20 games continually and nobody is taking the money, you have to start putting a winning product on the floor and change the perception of being the laughing stock of the nba
F N 11 wrote:SARGO127 wrote:Randle would be good as a 4th or 5th option. He can't be a top option.
He thinks he’s the best player on the team. Wait until he sees how easily And efficiently Obi scores. He’s not passing to him either.
Sitting on your hands and doing nothing doesn't require competence though.mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:Triple C wrote:
berman basically saying, don't fall for the okie doke. they just couldn't get anybody to take their money. well damn.The Knicks entered free agency with a league-high $40 million in cap space and with heady visions. They wanted to be a major playoff threat in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season and bring glamour back to the Garden – even if it might be empty for the 36-game home schedule.
That is why they drafted a more ready-made forward in native New Yorker Obi Toppin, age 22, over Israeli project forward Deni Avdija, 19, when both surprisingly dropped to No. 8.
Avdija, a playmaking forward, could be the next…Gordon Hayward. The Israeli had his fans in the Knicks organization.
The Knicks acted like a title contender on Wednesday’s draft night when they wanted to keep open a roster spot for free agency and decided to hastily trade the 33rd pick in the draft – which most executives covet – for a 2023 second-round pick. They had little time to wheel as all their targets came off the board, including Duke center Vernon Carey Jr. at 32.
Those are not the actions of a rebuilding team, but one looking to turn around its miserable fortunes right away in a hurried, chaotic 2020-21 season. They wanted to give star-caliber coach Thibodeau, who usually doesn’t covet rookies, the best chance.
As it unfolded on Blue Saturday, the Knicks went from potentially being a legit playoff contender (10 teams qualify in each conference) to competing for the No. 1 lottery seed in the 2021 draft with a chance at 6-7 combo guard Cade Cunningham of Oklahoma State. He’s the NBA’s Trevor Lawrence.
Things can change, of course, if Russell Westbrook happens. Suddenly, the three years, $131 million left on his contract doesn’t look so unappealing for the 32-year-old point guard. If the Knicks decide to go after it, they’d only execute a trade for a big discount.
The dreamboat scenario for Rose’s squad was using much of their cap space to sign DJ Augustin to start at point guard and Gordon Hayward and Carmelo Anthony to plug in as the forwards.
The Post has learned once the Knicks found out recently that point guard Fred VanVleet only had eyes on staying in Toronto to continue his close bond with backcourt mate Kyle Lowry, Augustin became their top priority at PG.
Don’t believe a published report the Knicks were not willing to give VanVleet the four years, $85 million the Raptors offered. Sources say they would have done it in a heartbeat.
But that’s irrelevant. VanVleet wanted to stay. The bigger issue is why they couldn’t land Augustin. Knicks GM Scott Perry, according to sources, adored Augustin when he had him in Orlando. Augustin is not a Creative Artists Agency client and Rose did not have the edge.
Augustin signed with the powerful Milwaukee Bucks for three years, $21 million. The Knicks would have had to massively overpay.
Thibodeau considered his former Minnesota PG, Jeff Teague, as a possibility but he wasn’t too high on the list and they let him sign with Boston for one year.
Ultimately, the staff didn’t think it was too much of an upgrade over CAA-controlled Elfrid Payton, their starting point guard in 2019-20, who inked a new one-year, $5 million deal.
Yes, Perry still is in love with Payton, whom he drafted in Orlando.
The biggest downer was not being able to get Hayward to New York. They were not willing to risk Hayward’s injury history by coming close to matching Charlotte’s four-year, $120 million offer.
The Knicks entered free agency feeling they could sign Hayward for two years. Hayward’s pact was a major overpay by Charlotte. Plus, Hayward had some interest but it didn’t seem the former Butler forward really wanted to be here. His hometown Pacers were his top choice.
So far, the Knicks just haven’t bolstered the roster in a significant way on the first two days of free agency, What does it say when even Anthony preferred to be on a playoff team in Portland and repay the Blazers for resuscitating his career than New York? Anthony had to say no to his beloved former agent. So did former Rose client Chris Paul, whose addition originally was Plan A-plus before he was traded to the Suns.
Those events actually might be the best two things not to happen. On Blue Saturday. Rose got saved from himself. Tank on.
Basically. They didn't expect no one to be interest in NY. No one is until they get into the position and realize they have to pay just as much as small market teams because they stink.
The only thing they did slightly better is they didn't panic yet. They only signed small expiring deals instead of deals like randle, portis...but they do still have 30mm left so they could still do something stupid I suppose but there is really no difference maker left on the market to pay.
Outside of maybe Bogdan which I wouldn't have an issue with signing. He's a good player.
Are We Ther Yet wrote:Don't even bother signing the last spot. Leave it open until all of the teams looking to do S&T deals to get their guy. We could help out for assets.
I really hope Thibs doesn't run all of the vets all of the time. He is known for short rotations and grinding players into dust. I really can't be optimistic at this point because...well... I'm not a sucker. I usually go in with patience and hope. Elfrid Payton really took all of that out of me. THE worst!!!
Thibs...PLAY THE KIDS!
thebuzzardman wrote:Dantares wrote:Randle for Bogdanovic sign and trade please. Randle played well for Luke Walton.
Serious question.
Do you want Bogdanovic on your cap for 3 or 4 years at roughly 20 million per?
Because he's 28 years old. He's got this one chance to really get paid in the NBA. He's not taking 10 million, and based on what guys like Bertans or Woods got, at about 14 and 16, I think Bogs tries hard to exceed that as he's a little older/proven better.
Folks were balking at FVV for 24/25 million even though it solved PG for a while, as the price was "too high" for what he brought. And while Bogs IS good, he's sort of an all around skilled glue guy. Does a rebuilding team "solve" SG for 4 years and 20 million with that player?
I can see a case for yes and no.
It would certainly feel EMOTIONALLY better that the Knicks came away in FA with a player who is an actual part of the future instead another year of placeholders, even if this group of placeholders makes more sense fit and $ wise.
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:Triple C wrote:
berman basically saying, don't fall for the okie doke. they just couldn't get anybody to take their money. well damn.The Knicks entered free agency with a league-high $40 million in cap space and with heady visions. They wanted to be a major playoff threat in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season and bring glamour back to the Garden – even if it might be empty for the 36-game home schedule.
That is why they drafted a more ready-made forward in native New Yorker Obi Toppin, age 22, over Israeli project forward Deni Avdija, 19, when both surprisingly dropped to No. 8.
Avdija, a playmaking forward, could be the next…Gordon Hayward. The Israeli had his fans in the Knicks organization.
The Knicks acted like a title contender on Wednesday’s draft night when they wanted to keep open a roster spot for free agency and decided to hastily trade the 33rd pick in the draft – which most executives covet – for a 2023 second-round pick. They had little time to wheel as all their targets came off the board, including Duke center Vernon Carey Jr. at 32.
Those are not the actions of a rebuilding team, but one looking to turn around its miserable fortunes right away in a hurried, chaotic 2020-21 season. They wanted to give star-caliber coach Thibodeau, who usually doesn’t covet rookies, the best chance.
As it unfolded on Blue Saturday, the Knicks went from potentially being a legit playoff contender (10 teams qualify in each conference) to competing for the No. 1 lottery seed in the 2021 draft with a chance at 6-7 combo guard Cade Cunningham of Oklahoma State. He’s the NBA’s Trevor Lawrence.
Things can change, of course, if Russell Westbrook happens. Suddenly, the three years, $131 million left on his contract doesn’t look so unappealing for the 32-year-old point guard. If the Knicks decide to go after it, they’d only execute a trade for a big discount.
The dreamboat scenario for Rose’s squad was using much of their cap space to sign DJ Augustin to start at point guard and Gordon Hayward and Carmelo Anthony to plug in as the forwards.
The Post has learned once the Knicks found out recently that point guard Fred VanVleet only had eyes on staying in Toronto to continue his close bond with backcourt mate Kyle Lowry, Augustin became their top priority at PG.
Don’t believe a published report the Knicks were not willing to give VanVleet the four years, $85 million the Raptors offered. Sources say they would have done it in a heartbeat.
But that’s irrelevant. VanVleet wanted to stay. The bigger issue is why they couldn’t land Augustin. Knicks GM Scott Perry, according to sources, adored Augustin when he had him in Orlando. Augustin is not a Creative Artists Agency client and Rose did not have the edge.
Augustin signed with the powerful Milwaukee Bucks for three years, $21 million. The Knicks would have had to massively overpay.
Thibodeau considered his former Minnesota PG, Jeff Teague, as a possibility but he wasn’t too high on the list and they let him sign with Boston for one year.
Ultimately, the staff didn’t think it was too much of an upgrade over CAA-controlled Elfrid Payton, their starting point guard in 2019-20, who inked a new one-year, $5 million deal.
Yes, Perry still is in love with Payton, whom he drafted in Orlando.
The biggest downer was not being able to get Hayward to New York. They were not willing to risk Hayward’s injury history by coming close to matching Charlotte’s four-year, $120 million offer.
The Knicks entered free agency feeling they could sign Hayward for two years. Hayward’s pact was a major overpay by Charlotte. Plus, Hayward had some interest but it didn’t seem the former Butler forward really wanted to be here. His hometown Pacers were his top choice.
So far, the Knicks just haven’t bolstered the roster in a significant way on the first two days of free agency, What does it say when even Anthony preferred to be on a playoff team in Portland and repay the Blazers for resuscitating his career than New York? Anthony had to say no to his beloved former agent. So did former Rose client Chris Paul, whose addition originally was Plan A-plus before he was traded to the Suns.
Those events actually might be the best two things not to happen. On Blue Saturday. Rose got saved from himself. Tank on.
Basically. They didn't expect no one to be interest in NY. No one is until they get into the position and realize they have to pay just as much as small market teams because they stink.
The only thing they did slightly better is they didn't panic yet. They only signed small expiring deals instead of deals like randle, portis...but they do still have 30mm left so they could still do something stupid I suppose but there is really no difference maker left on the market to pay.
Outside of maybe Bogdan which I wouldn't have an issue with signing. He's a good player.
thebuzzardman wrote:Dantares wrote:Randle for Bogdanovic sign and trade please. Randle played well for Luke Walton.
Serious question.
Do you want Bogdanovic on your cap for 3 or 4 years at roughly 20 million per?
Because he's 28 years old. He's got this one chance to really get paid in the NBA. He's not taking 10 million, and based on what guys like Bertans or Woods got, at about 14 and 16, I think Bogs tries hard to exceed that as he's a little older/proven better.
Folks were balking at FVV for 24/25 million even though it solved PG for a while, as the price was "too high" for what he brought. And while Bogs IS good, he's sort of an all around skilled glue guy. Does a rebuilding team "solve" SG for 4 years and 20 million with that player?
I can see a case for yes and no.
It would certainly feel EMOTIONALLY better that the Knicks came away in FA with a player who is an actual part of the future instead another year of placeholders, even if this group of placeholders makes more sense fit and $ wise.
I remember a few years back, Vivek Ranadive said that the analytics made sense to have only 4 players on defense and leaving one to exclusively cherry pick.god shammgod wrote:obi & knox together in the frontcourt. jesus. why not just sit on the floor when the other team has the ball.
snadler wrote:So if you believe Berman the plan was to compete and nobody wanted the Knicks money even Augustin..like ive been saying having cap space and winning 20 games continually and nobody is taking the money, you have to start putting a winning product on the floor and change the perception of being the laughing stock of the nba
god shammgod wrote:so knicks wanted -
mitch
melo
hayward
rj
augustin
with obi off the bench
GONYK wrote:Sitting on your hands and doing nothing doesn't require competence though.mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
berman basically saying, don't fall for the okie doke. they just couldn't get anybody to take their money. well damn.
Basically. They didn't expect no one to be interest in NY. No one is until they get into the position and realize they have to pay just as much as small market teams because they stink.
The only thing they did slightly better is they didn't panic yet. They only signed small expiring deals instead of deals like randle, portis...but they do still have 30mm left so they could still do something stupid I suppose but there is really no difference maker left on the market to pay.
Outside of maybe Bogdan which I wouldn't have an issue with signing. He's a good player.
Trading away the the 33rd pick to preserve a roster spot for all the FAs you thought you were going to sign is straight up embarrassing.
Where is the creativity? The vision?
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:Still no tables on this site , so here are the rosters for last year and this year (as currently is) 'matched up'Code: Select all
Dennis Smith PG Dennis Smith PG
Frank Ntilikina PG Frank Ntilikina PG
Elfrid Payton PG Elfrid Payton PG
Reggie Bullock SG Reggie Bullock SG
Wayne Ellington SG Alec Burks SG
Allonzo Trier SG Immanuel Quickley SG/PG(?)
Damyean Dotson SG ---
RJ Barrett SG/SF RJ Barrett SG/SF
Ignas Brazdeikis SF Ignas Brazdeikis SF
M.Morris/M.Harkless SF ---
--- Obi Toppin PF
Kevin Knox SF/PF Kevin Knox SF/PF
Julius Randle PF Julius Randle PF
Bobby Portis PF/C Nerlens Noel C
Taj Gibson C/PF Ed Davis C/PF
Mitchell Robinson C Mitchell Robinson C