Rumors and Discussion Thread (NYK and NBA) V - Elfrid Payton Sucks

[Zenzibar]

In society there are those that are constantly optimistic, while others are pessimistic and then other doomsayers. The board is symbolic of that.
For those that wouldn't know, I've been a fan longer than some have been alive. Anybody remember John Gianelli?

It's easy for some of the naysayers to complain about the front office and say players don't want to be here because of them. But never think for once that the players don't want to come here because of YOU!!!

Examples?
1. The treatment of Stephon was disgusting and Dad was so pained that he suffered a heart attack at MSG from the boos raining down on his son. He of Brooklyn and Abraham Lincoln high school.
2. The booing of DSJ during his family crisis was painful to watch.
3. The treatment of Patrick during his later years was pathetic to watch. Don't believe me, Google it.
4. Mark Jackson was chased out of NY, he of 4th all-time assist and our very own: Queens, St. Johns etc.

That's just some of the few I can remember. Ask yourself before comaplaining about me, if the players around the league don't keep that in mind. Don't be delusional, because they do, trust me. It's not only the bright lights of Broadway but also the dim lights of some of the fans.

SO go ahead, blame Dolan, blame the front offices, coaches etc. and keep ignoring the fanbase's treatment of their own homegrown players.
I just hope we can get behind Obi and give the young man the posiitve energy he needs to bring us closer to the ultimate goal.
But know what? Given some of the posts the last couple of days and past experiences, I have big reservations.

[F N 11]

Mills would be proud

Except he would never do it for a competent player like this

Read on Twitter

Lmao at the trade kicker.

[MaseInYourFace]

https://youtu.be/-0mXjUV08sY
Good points by Raw. We brought in guys that won’t hinder the development of the youth. I hope he’s right about Payton not starting. He’s curious about what is going on with Randle becausey Knox has to get some playing time.

I hope he’s right but I think the best case we can hope for is those guys start/play heavy minutes and then get flipped at deadline.

[KnicksGod]

Obi has a legit looking release. Seems compact and smooth, not perfect but pretty good.

[Capn'O]

I don't even see that much whining to be honest. People just need to talk their ****, I guess.

And there are people "losing it" for a bit, but it's mostly venting.
Also, there's quite a bit of joking in it, which I wonder if everyone gets.

I am not joking when Elfrid Payton was the one player I didn't want back on the knicks...like I could take nearly anyone else but him.

My nightmare scenarios were offering big, long money to players like FVV (who I actually like but not beating the Raps' offer), Hayward, and Teague or trading for Westbrook and watch them become our new hated talismans. Not a huge fan of bringing Payton back but it's a move that allows for better paths. Management just has to find them and jump and they haven't yet. Watching him... will be tough.

[Monk1718]

The lottery gods will bless us for signing Noel

[robillionaire]

these are the future things we can be optimistic about:
Toppin, RJ, and Mitch developing into great players
Other young guys developing into serviceable role players
possibility of winning the lottery next summer
the mavs pick if something happens to them (unlikely, they made improvements)
cap space next summer (not getting my hopes up but it's there)

[Traveyknicks23]

We done btching about Payton yet?

[dakomish23]

what I always found laughable is the group of fans that come on and complain about other fans "whining" or "complaining" like we have been a model franchise like the spurs and this is just a random bad year and we should be patient and give them a chance. Give me a direction.

Have they been living under a rock for 20 years? This has been the laughing stock franchise in the NBA while having the most loyal fan base behind it and we can't be critical about the direction of this poorly run franchise?

People have every right ot be skepital especially since the same things seem to be repeating themselves early on.

Backdate this post for the last 3 summers

[SelbyCobra]

what I always found laughable is the group of fans that come on and complain about other fans "whining" or "complaining" like we have been a model franchise like the spurs and this is just a random bad year and we should be patient and give them a chance. Give me a direction.

Have they been living under a rock for 20 years? This has been the laughing stock franchise in the NBA while having the most loyal fan base behind it and we can't be critical about the direction of this poorly run franchise?

People have every right ot be skepital especially since the same things seem to be repeating themselves early on.

I agree with almost all of this, and I'm more optimistic than most. It's just a lot of time and energy to spend being so upset. I'm as frustrated as the rest, but if all hope is lost - as is routinely and loudly projected via sarcasm and anger in here - then what's the point? There's healthy skepticism, but there's also multiple levels beyond that running around these streets.

I'm as optimistic as it gets. I've been pumping sunshine on here for years. I'm incredibly patient. Tank commander even. But at some point even I can't explain away terrible moves. Even in the context of a rebuild this was not a good offseason with tons of wasted potential. Cap space that was not used to bring in picks. Missed opportunities in the draft. Thibs as coach, who isn't here to drive a tank. Signing nepotism picks like the former Jazz players Davis and Burks for Perrin, Elfrid Payton for Scott Perry. Noel for Payne. None of it is logically consistent with a team that wanted to rebuild all along. They were trying to win and they just failed in FA. I don't know why it's so hard to admit that. We are in the exact same position we are in last year with Mills at the helm and a bunch of 1 year vets that will stunt the growth of the younger players as they chase the 8 seed and their next contracts, and believe me they will.

I agree with so much of this, but even as confused as you are, you aren't posting as if all is lost and anyone that buys into hope is a big dummy.

[KnicksGadfly]

We done btching about Payton yet?

Hmm why do you like the deal so much?

[dakomish23]

Mills would be proud

Except he would never do it for a competent player like this

Read on Twitter

Lmao at the trade kicker.

This is the THJ deal

Unreal what we spend money on vs what other teams spend money on

[cgmw]

these are the future things we can be optimistic about:
Toppin, RJ, and Mitch developing into great players
Other young guys developing into serviceable role players
possibility of winning the lottery next summer
the mavs pick if something happens to them (unlikely, they made improvements)
cap space next summer (not getting my hopes up but it's there)

Maybe I’ve just got battered Knicks syndrome, but Leon’s blowing it up at/before the deadline. I bet they’re telling Thibs to showcase Randle, Knox and DSJ/Frank.

Some dumb sh*t is definitely happening before we get the chance at another top 3 pick.

[F N 11]

If this is the starting lineup on opening night is all forgiven?

Frank
Quickley
RJ
Obi
Mitch

[robillionaire]

I agree with almost all of this, and I'm more optimistic than most. It's just a lot of time and energy to spend being so upset. I'm as frustrated as the rest, but if all hope is lost - as is routinely and loudly projected via sarcasm and anger in here - then what's the point? There's healthy skepticism, but there's also multiple levels beyond that running around these streets.

I'm as optimistic as it gets. I've been pumping sunshine on here for years. I'm incredibly patient. Tank commander even. But at some point even I can't explain away terrible moves. Even in the context of a rebuild this was not a good offseason with tons of wasted potential. Cap space that was not used to bring in picks. Missed opportunities in the draft. Thibs as coach, who isn't here to drive a tank. Signing nepotism picks like the former Jazz players Davis and Burks for Perrin, Elfrid Payton for Scott Perry. Noel for Payne. None of it is logically consistent with a team that wanted to rebuild all along. They were trying to win and they just failed in FA. I don't know why it's so hard to admit that. We are in the exact same position we are in last year with Mills at the helm and a bunch of 1 year vets that will stunt the growth of the younger players as they chase the 8 seed and their next contracts, and believe me they will.

I agree with so much of this, but even as confused as you are, you aren't posting as if all is lost and anyone that buys into hope is a big dummy.

Yeah, I posted above some reasons to buy into hope. But I will say my confidence in the FO is not very high right now.

[dakomish23]

If this is the starting lineup on opening night is all forgiven?

Frank
Quickley
RJ
Obi
Mitch

That’s a start

We are petty

[SelbyCobra]

what I always found laughable is the group of fans that come on and complain about other fans "whining" or "complaining" like we have been a model franchise like the spurs and this is just a random bad year and we should be patient and give them a chance. Give me a direction.

Have they been living under a rock for 20 years? This has been the laughing stock franchise in the NBA while having the most loyal fan base behind it and we can't be critical about the direction of this poorly run franchise?

People have every right ot be skepital especially since the same things seem to be repeating themselves early on.

I agree with almost all of this, and I'm more optimistic than most. It's just a lot of time and energy to spend being so upset. I'm as frustrated as the rest, but if all hope is lost - as is routinely and loudly projected via sarcasm and anger in here - then what's the point? There's healthy skepticism, but there's also multiple levels beyond that running around these streets.

yeah but I don't think anyone is crazy upset. Most damning things I have seen was saying this front office has a level of nepotism (true), unimaginative (true so far), and not having a clear direction (true - they went have Hayward they just lost out).

I haven't seen most say f*ck the knicks what a horrible offseason. I have seen more like, same old same old...not much to compliment so far. Maybe the have a few moves up there sleves to use cap space properly and get more draft capital but that woudl literally suprrise me at this point.

Maybe I'm wrong, and not that it matters, but I feel like I've seen quite a bit of this.

Either way, we're all hoping they get it right in the end. Or at the very least have some hopeful RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ moments thatbring a modicum of enjoyment this coming season.

[Monk1718]

If this is the starting lineup on opening night is all forgiven?

Frank
Quickley
RJ
Obi
Mitch

That team sucks but I’m not even mad at that. Just use every young player and see what they really can do with decent coaching. At least we would have a clear picture on what we have by the next off-season and can move accordingly.

[SelbyCobra]

these are the future things we can be optimistic about:
Toppin, RJ, and Mitch developing into great players
Other young guys developing into serviceable role players
possibility of winning the lottery next summer
the mavs pick if something happens to them (unlikely, they made improvements)
cap space next summer (not getting my hopes up but it's there)

I'd like to add "Even if he ends up a bust, Obi banging on a name brand this season"

[iLLmatic860]

We done btching about Payton yet?

Honestly he and Randle had no structure or accountability last season. You gotta think with a coach like Thibs he will hold them accountable.