Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[Chapelchilla]

316 is trolling

He told the truth. You may be trolling however.

[BigSlam]

Let's get the good discussions back on track and attack the posts, not the posters.

[316Hornets]

This is a playoff team. A lot of people haven't accepted that reality.

We have young guys(Devonte, Monk) playing for new contracts. After the Kemba debacle, we have to show we are committed to our guys. Bringing in a guy that elevates everyone around him is a great start.

Devonte was getting frustrated last season having to carry the team while being played to the vest due to our lack of shooters. We now have multiple guys ready to launch from deep. There's going to be some great games coming up, enjoy it.

Ok, here is some reality. Our core for next season that we will be relying no to win us games is...

Gordon Hayward - Devontae Graham - Terry Rozier - #3 pick Lamelo "Triple Double Machine" Ball - All-Rookie PJ Washington

Lets compare that to the cores of the rest of the conference.

Atlanta: Trae Young - Bogdon Bogdonavic - John Collins - Danilo Gallinari legit
Boston: Jayson Tatum - Kemba Walker - Jaylen Brown Kemba is cooked
Brooklyn: Kevin Durant - Kyrie Irving - Caris LeVert - Joe Harris - Jarrett Allen Achilles, Knee. These guys will hobble to the finish line
Miami: Jimmy Butler - Bam Adebayo - Goran Dragic - Tyler Herro legit
Milwaukee: Giannis Antetokounmpo - Khris Middleton - Jrue Holiday legit
Philadelphia: Joel Embiid - Ben Simmons - Tobias Harris Harris is washed, Embiid and Simmons both share the middle
Toronto: Pascal Siahkam - Kyle Lowry - Fred VanVleet Lowry older, Siakam can't lead

All those cores are easily better than ours by a pretty big margin and thats already seven teams. Then you have...

Washington: Bradley Beal - John Wall - Davis Bertans
Indiana: Malcolm Brogdon - Victor Oladipo - TJ Warren - Damantis Sabonis

Very likely better than ours, but injury issues with Wall and Oladipo make things a little more fuzzy. The Indiana core is still better than ours without Oladipo (Brogdon = Hayward / Warren = Graham / Sabonis > Rozier), but if Wall straight up sucks we might have an edge over Washington, even though Beal is quite a bit better than Hayward, because the rest of their team is pretty meh and Graham is probably better than Bertans.

If you think our core is better than any of the teams in the first group then I think you are the one who isn't able to accept reality. Its not out of the question that we could sneak into the playoffs as an 8th seed, or maybe a 7th seed if some of the top teams have injury issues and we don't, but insisting this team is a definite playoff squad, or that they are a real threat to do anything, is a pretty big stretch. Like JG has said multiple times, we had the 4th worst point differential in the league last year and overachieved in terms of wins by a big margin and its pretty obvious our roster is pretty lacking in terms of NBA ready talent.

I see 3 teams that are for sure in better position than us. The 4th-9th seed are up for grabs. Our team is young and hungry. Hayward is finally returning to form and will get his chance to be the man again. Keep doubting, that crow is going to be served like Thanksgiving end of season.

[SWedd523]

You think Charlotte is gonna be competing with Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, and Toronto for the 4 seed?


DrEvilRiiiiight.gif

[Braggins]

This is a playoff team. A lot of people haven't accepted that reality.

We have young guys(Devonte, Monk) playing for new contracts. After the Kemba debacle, we have to show we are committed to our guys. Bringing in a guy that elevates everyone around him is a great start.

Devonte was getting frustrated last season having to carry the team while being played to the vest due to our lack of shooters. We now have multiple guys ready to launch from deep. There's going to be some great games coming up, enjoy it.

Ok, here is some reality. Our core for next season that we will be relying no to win us games is...

Gordon Hayward - Devontae Graham - Terry Rozier - #3 pick Lamelo "Triple Double Machine" Ball - All-Rookie PJ Washington

Lets compare that to the cores of the rest of the conference.

Atlanta: Trae Young - Bogdon Bogdonavic - John Collins - Danilo Gallinari legit
Boston: Jayson Tatum - Kemba Walker - Jaylen Brown Kemba is cooked
Brooklyn: Kevin Durant - Kyrie Irving - Caris LeVert - Joe Harris - Jarrett Allen Achilles, Knee. These guys will hobble to the finish line
Miami: Jimmy Butler - Bam Adebayo - Goran Dragic - Tyler Herro legit
Milwaukee: Giannis Antetokounmpo - Khris Middleton - Jrue Holiday legit
Philadelphia: Joel Embiid - Ben Simmons - Tobias Harris Harris is washed, Embiid and Simmons both share the middle
Toronto: Pascal Siahkam - Kyle Lowry - Fred VanVleet Lowry older, Siakam can't lead

All those cores are easily better than ours by a pretty big margin and thats already seven teams. Then you have...

Washington: Bradley Beal - John Wall - Davis Bertans
Indiana: Malcolm Brogdon - Victor Oladipo - TJ Warren - Damantis Sabonis

Very likely better than ours, but injury issues with Wall and Oladipo make things a little more fuzzy. The Indiana core is still better than ours without Oladipo (Brogdon = Hayward / Warren = Graham / Sabonis > Rozier), but if Wall straight up sucks we might have an edge over Washington, even though Beal is quite a bit better than Hayward, because the rest of their team is pretty meh and Graham is probably better than Bertans.

If you think our core is better than any of the teams in the first group then I think you are the one who isn't able to accept reality. Its not out of the question that we could sneak into the playoffs as an 8th seed, or maybe a 7th seed if some of the top teams have injury issues and we don't, but insisting this team is a definite playoff squad, or that they are a real threat to do anything, is a pretty big stretch. Like JG has said multiple times, we had the 4th worst point differential in the league last year and overachieved in terms of wins by a big margin and its pretty obvious our roster is pretty lacking in terms of NBA ready talent.

I see 3 teams that are for sure in better position than us. The 4th-9th seed are up for grabs. Our team is young and hungry. Hayward is finally returning to form and will get his chance to be the man again. Keep doubting, that crow is going to be served like Thanksgiving end of season.

You're out of your mind lol.

And lmao at "triple double machine Ball"... Ball is going to suck this season. Even if he has a bright future, he is not going to be a positive impact player as a 19 year old rookie coming off no summer league and a limited training camp + preseason.

[316Hornets]

You think Charlotte is gonna be competing with Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, and Toronto for the 4 seed?


DrEvilRiiiiight.gif

Don't we still have the MLE? You guys are so used to watching Kemba clanking buzzer beaters, you can't even fathom a winning team. This team is going to the playoffs and we will beat Boston in the 1st round in 4-5 seed matchup.

[SWedd523]

You think Charlotte is gonna be competing with Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, and Toronto for the 4 seed?


DrEvilRiiiiight.gif

Don't we still have the MLE? You guys are so used to watching Kemba clanking buzzer beaters, you can't even fathom a winning team. This team is going to the playoffs and we will beat Boston in the 1st round in 4-5 seed matchup.

Put that in your sig

[316Hornets]

And lmao at "triple double machine Ball"... Ball is going to suck this season. Even if he has a bright future, he is not going to be a positive impact player as a 19 year old rookie coming off no summer league and a limited training camp + preseason.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2914346-2020-draft-prospects-who-are-the-most-nba-ready

"Passing instincts translate quickly, as we've recently seen with Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Despite struggling in other areas, Lonzo Ball still averaged 7.2 assists per game as a rookie. Even in a worst-case scenario, LaMelo Ball could be one of the league's most skilled playmakers.

At 18 years old, he was second in assists per game in Australia's National Basketball League. And because of his 6'7" size, ball-handling, creativity and vision, it's easy to buy Ball's ability to create easy shots for teammates in transition and off ball screens."

[JDR720]

Ball is far more likely to be like Philly MCW next season than an all-star caliber player.

He shot 38% in the Australian league and 25% from 3.

As of now, he is a good passer who isn't good at most other things.

Hayward is good, but he likely isn't all-star level either.

Rozier is a solid vet. Graham is probably good.

PJ and some of our other youth have potential.

The only plausible way we make the playoffs is if multiple players have career years, like the last time we made the playoffs.

And that isn't even considering if Westbrook or Harden come East.

[Braggins]

And lmao at "triple double machine Ball"... Ball is going to suck this season. Even if he has a bright future, he is not going to be a positive impact player as a 19 year old rookie coming off no summer league and a limited training camp + preseason.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2914346-2020-draft-prospects-who-are-the-most-nba-ready

"Passing instincts translate quickly, as we've recently seen with Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Despite struggling in other areas, Lonzo Ball still averaged 7.2 assists per game as a rookie. Even in a worst-case scenario, LaMelo Ball could be one of the league's most skilled playmakers.

At 18 years old, he was second in assists per game in Australia's National Basketball League. And because of his 6'7" size, ball-handling, creativity and vision, it's easy to buy Ball's ability to create easy shots for teammates in transition and off ball screens."

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

[316Hornets]

And lmao at "triple double machine Ball"... Ball is going to suck this season. Even if he has a bright future, he is not going to be a positive impact player as a 19 year old rookie coming off no summer league and a limited training camp + preseason.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2914346-2020-draft-prospects-who-are-the-most-nba-ready

"Passing instincts translate quickly, as we've recently seen with Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Despite struggling in other areas, Lonzo Ball still averaged 7.2 assists per game as a rookie. Even in a worst-case scenario, LaMelo Ball could be one of the league's most skilled playmakers.

At 18 years old, he was second in assists per game in Australia's National Basketball League. And because of his 6'7" size, ball-handling, creativity and vision, it's easy to buy Ball's ability to create easy shots for teammates in transition and off ball screens."

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

[BigSlam]

But how about that Hayward signing.....

[Braggins]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2914346-2020-draft-prospects-who-are-the-most-nba-ready

"Passing instincts translate quickly, as we've recently seen with Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Despite struggling in other areas, Lonzo Ball still averaged 7.2 assists per game as a rookie. Even in a worst-case scenario, LaMelo Ball could be one of the league's most skilled playmakers.

At 18 years old, he was second in assists per game in Australia's National Basketball League. And because of his 6'7" size, ball-handling, creativity and vision, it's easy to buy Ball's ability to create easy shots for teammates in transition and off ball screens."

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

Jesus Christ...

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

Honestly it's going to depend a lot on how well Ball shoots. If LaMelo has improved his shot then I think he'll be starting sooner rather than later. If the shot is still bad then he'll play mostly second unit this year and get to work on it more over next off season.

In general I think that having Hayward here helps LaMelo, Devonte', Terry, & PJ.

I think it hurts Miles & Monk. Miles will lose the starting job and the team will look for additional offense from Hayward in some situations where they turned to Monk last year.


Having LaMelo helps Hayward, Miles, Monk, & PJ

Probably hurts Devonte' and Terry short term. We are going to have to see if the Devonte' can move more off ball again. Terry likely loses some minutes.

[SWedd523]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2914346-2020-draft-prospects-who-are-the-most-nba-ready

"Passing instincts translate quickly, as we've recently seen with Ja Morant, Trae Young and Luka Doncic. Despite struggling in other areas, Lonzo Ball still averaged 7.2 assists per game as a rookie. Even in a worst-case scenario, LaMelo Ball could be one of the league's most skilled playmakers.

At 18 years old, he was second in assists per game in Australia's National Basketball League. And because of his 6'7" size, ball-handling, creativity and vision, it's easy to buy Ball's ability to create easy shots for teammates in transition and off ball screens."

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

Bro

[James Gatz]

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

Bro

Yeah, I'm super high on ball but dude is going to be really bad next year.

[BigSlam]

[SWedd523]

I see what you're doing here

And I like it


But anyway back to Hayward because Hayward is someone we just signed and this is the Hayward thread and Hayward this and Hayward that and here a Hayward, there a Hayward everywhere a Hayward.....

Spoiler:

Edit by Slam

[DY_nasty]

Trae Young was still a negative player his rookie season. Luka is one of the best prospects in the history of the league. Ja is easily a better prospect than Ball and he wasn't a positive impact player his rookie season.

I don't doubt that Ball will get assists if he gets playing time this year, but he is going to be an abysmal defender and he still can't shoot and will struggle to score with any kind of efficiency.

Ball's entry to the league is much more like Luka instead of Ja/Trae. He has been playing against grown men for years now.

Bro

he's not trolling tho

[Rich4114]

But how about that Hayward signing.....

Topic tangents are inevitable.