Woj - Westbrook for Wall and 1st Rounder

[payitforward]

I am disappointed as hell, and not really for basketball reasons.

You can make a solid argument that the Wizards got the better of the Rockets in this deal, no argument from me.

Strictly on a human level though, this feels like betrayal.

Aldridge's proselytizing wouldn't be as hard to stomach if he didn't let Leonsis off the hook for the role he's played in this saga as the owner of this franchise.

Wall came here as a puppy, eager to embrace a community he felt connected to because of the pain of his own upbringing and the roots of his father.

He wasn't always as professional as you would expect from somebody you hand the keys, but neither was this organization and that's really the crux of it.

Leonsis, armed with the opportunity to build a winning culture around Wall, let a boil that was visible to everybody fester until it was too late to salvage.

Ted leading the charge on purging Wall from the organization has a Dr. Frankenstein vibe to it. Seeing Wall shunned in this fashion makes me sick.

Double bottom line? Talking out of both sides of your mouth is more like it.

This is pretty strongly worded, but I agree that over time there are fewer & fewer reasons to have a high regard for Ted Leonsis -- as a person, or a business-person, or a leader.

[WashWiz54]

The negativity within this thread is pretty surprising to me. Yes, John Wall did a lot for DC but winning wasn’t one of them. At the end of the day, he plays for the basketball team, and he wasn’t a winner there. Big winner off the court... not so much on. From coming in out of shape, to complaining about Beal getting paid, to never missing a party, I’m just tired. Tired of the lack of killer instinct, tired of laziness, and tired of John Wall as a member of this team. I appreciate what he did and will be fond of some of his led teams, but his time in DC was over.

Clearly Beal and Wall did not want to play with each other, we knew this for awhile. Beal becoming the alpha over the past couple years created a world where there was no return. Beal was never going to go back, and John (in Washington) would try to take his alpha role back. I think everyone knew that this was the offseason this issue would rear its ugly head and not go away. This had to be done.

Now is Westbrook perfect? Absolutely not. If he was, there is no way they would of traded him for Wall. There are going to be flaws, there are going to be headaches, and there are going to be times I hate the guy. However, the dude has skill and he brings it. That’s what is most important to me right now. I honestly think that’s why Beal and Wall never gelled. Beal kind of reminds me of a Paul Pierce mentality where Wall was more of as T-Mac. Russ is a gamer and will gel with Beal more, I believe. Or it could all implode, but its worth a shot. We know what we had was not going to work and would of led to Beal walking out on us.

Also, I thought it was pretty clear this trade was going to happen when Cousins signed with Houston. Wall and him have been talking about playing together forever so wherever he ended up, I assumed Wall would join (or stay). Maybe that’s why I’m taking it so well... I’ve mentally accepted it since Boogie signed with the Rockets.

[keynote]

So, to recap:
- Russ and his agent pushed for this trade, and expressed specific interest in DC (presumably because we had the most competitive roster of the few viable trading partners available).
- Wall did *not* want to leave.

Read on Twitter

(so, perhaps Shep told no lies when he refuted the rumor about Wall's trade request)
- The Wizards were open to the trade a) for basketball reasons, and b) to clarify to Beal their intent to build around hin
- By waiting the Rockets out, Shep was able to reduce the sweetener to a protected '23 1st rounder (the earlier scuttle was that Houston wanted more sweeteners)
- Reading between the lines, Beal was likely consulted and approved the move at a high level.

I'm now in the Acceptance phase. While I'm loathe to give up any future asset, the deal makes sense.

if Beal's camp indicates that this isn't enough and he still wants out, we can flip him and recoup that draft asset and more.

On the other hand, if the team looks frisky and our young players improve, we can push in our chips and make a win-now trade this year or next. With Beal + Russ + young pieces + most of our draft futures, perhaps we become an attractive enough candidate to attract the next disgruntled star pushing himself out of a waning situation. What if Toronto runs out of steam and wants to flip Siakam, or Indiana recognize that Sabonis isn't good enough to be a franchise player? What if Gobert wants out of Utah, or if Embiid want out of the Doc experiment in Philly? Can we stitch enough salary + young talent + picks to make a deal work?

[gambitx777]

I have a few.friends that actually spent time around John and met him and hears the stories frost hand kind of made me sour on john a bit.
Tbh

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[DCZards]

How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.

It’s been obvious for awhile that the Zards aren’t interested in starting over and rebuilding. Otherwise, they would have already traded Beal for a cache of draft picks and/or young players.

For better or for worse, the Zards have made it clear that they’re intent on keeping BB happy and building around the 27 year old SG…and that means winning sooner rather than later. Given that reality/goal, a 2023 first round pick becomes a lot less valuable and important.

Russ is a better player than Wall so presumably that makes the Zards a better team today than they were yesterday. How much better remains to be seen.

[DCZards]

Good post. I especially concur with part 1.

Regarding 4 and 5, I wonder if the Wiz were thinking of Jimmy Butler's effects on Miami. But the big difference there is Butler showed a lot of unselfishness last season in Leading Philly. Westbrook has never shown that quality, imo.

I've always had a different take on Westbrook's selfishness. No doubt he too often tries to take over games by himself, particularly at the end of games...leaving teammates to stand around and watch. But I believe that's a function of Russ's personality and desire to win, which is both a blessing and a curse.

He too often feels like he has to take it upon himself to will his team to a victory. Hopefully, he'll dial that back some now that he's older and more mature.

But, damn, I LOVE how hard Westbrook plays!

[nate33]

So, to recap:
- Russ and his agent pushed for this trade, and expressed specific interest in DC (presumably because we had the most competitive roster of the few viable trading partners available).
- Wall did *not* want to leave.

Read on Twitter

That conflicts with the reports that Wall demanded a trade after hearing about the talks with Houston. It also conflicts with the recent "no comment" remark by Wall when asked if he had demanded a trade.

I wish somebody could give us the definitive story on WTF happened.

[Dark Faze]

So, to recap:
- Russ and his agent pushed for this trade, and expressed specific interest in DC (presumably because we had the most competitive roster of the few viable trading partners available).
- Wall did *not* want to leave.

Read on Twitter

(so, perhaps Shep told no lies when he refuted the rumor about Wall's trade request)
- The Wizards were open to the trade a) for basketball reasons, and b) to clarify to Beal their intent to build around hin
- By waiting the Rockets out, Shep was able to reduce the sweetener to a protected '23 1st rounder (the earlier scuttle was that Houston wanted more sweeteners)
- Reading between the lines, Beal was likely consulted and approved the move at a high level.

I think all of this is true, but I'm starting to suspect that at a certain point John realized the Houston situation was actually a good one for him and decided to force the move rather than potentially getting sent to basketball hell in Detroit or something in the future. Probably exchanged calls with Harden, got some indication that dude would be willing to give it an honest chance, spoke with his own team then pushed for the trade/leaked the info to Shams.

John is in a no lose situation in Houston:

Path A: He plays great with Harden, gets more clout on a national level.
Path B: It doesn't go well, Harden bails and brings back a mix of decent players and picks, and it's the John and Cousins show in H-Town.

[tontoz]

On sports radio there was an interesting take:

"Wall and Harden in Houston will be a stimulus package for Houston strip clubs".

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Gotta be honest. Independent of the merits of the trade, I woke up feeling like I lost a family member.

John isn't flawless... but, given where he came from, his growth as a person and his commitment to DC make him one of my all time favorite local players.

As per the trade, we'll see. Westbrook has a lot of mileage on him and his shot isn't getting better. The rumors are that the time off both helped JW revive himself physically, but also to work on his shot.

It wouldn't shock me if JW ends up being the better player, this year. AND we gave up a first round pick.

All in all, I still think the better move would have been to hold firm for now and see what happens.

[keynote]

So, to recap:
- Russ and his agent pushed for this trade, and expressed specific interest in DC (presumably because we had the most competitive roster of the few viable trading partners available).
- Wall did *not* want to leave.

Read on Twitter

That conflicts with the reports that Wall demanded a trade after hearing about the talks with Houston. It also conflicts with the recent "no comment" remark by Wall when asked if he had demanded a trade.

I wish somebody could give us the definitive story on WTF happened.

That would still be consistent with a timeline where Wall didn't request a trade until after he knew he was being dangled. Either way: the point is that Wall's unhappiness was not the catalyst for the trade, but a byproduct of trade negotiations.

If true, the Shep's statement after Round 1 of negotiations (which stalled because Houston wanted too much sweetener) is true. The Wizards weren't planning to trade Wall (since they didn't want to part with the additional compensation), and Wall didn't demand a trade. Wall might have uttered a Stringer Bell-esque "get on with it...", but that's not the same as wanting it to happen.

Then, prompted by Russ's urging (on either an Athletic or Ringer podcast, folks claimed that he wasn't planning to report to training camp), the parties reconvened, with Houston carrying less leverage.

That's my version of events.

[pcbothwel]

Good post. I especially concur with part 1.

Regarding 4 and 5, I wonder if the Wiz were thinking of Jimmy Butler's effects on Miami. But the big difference there is Butler showed a lot of unselfishness last season in Leading Philly. Westbrook has never shown that quality, imo.

I've always had a different take on Westbrook's selfishness. No doubt he too often tries to take over games by himself, particularly at the end of games, leaving teammates to stand around and watch. But I believe that's a function of Russ's personality and desire to win, which is both a blessing and a curse.

He too often feels like he has to take it upon to will his team to a victory. Hopefully, he can dial that back some now that he's older and more mature.

But, damn, I LOVE how hard Westbrook plays!

This.
BTW... Make no mistake about it. Having two All-NBA caliber players that are married with kids, dont drink, eat clean, and compete everyday will reverberate through out the entire organization.

Westbrook on his best day could never touch the BBIQ and vision John Wall. John Wall may be one of the smartest basketball players in the league along with Lebron.
But... Westbrook reminds of the Jocko Willink/David Goggins type of "If you feel tired, that means you're only halfway done. Stop crying" attitude. And I for one LOVE IT.

Watch on YouTube

[Meliorus]

Gotta be honest. Independent of the merits of the trade, I woke up feeling like I lost a family member.

John isn't flawless... but, given where he came from, his growth as a person and his commitment to DC make him one of my all time favorite local players.

As per the trade, we'll see. Westbrook has a lot of mileage on him and his shot isn't getting better. The rumors are that the time off both helped JW revive himself physically, but also to work on his shot.

It wouldn't shock me if JW ends up being the better player, this year. AND we gave up a first round pick.

All in all, I still think the better move would have been to hold firm for now and see what happens.

Same feeling for me and I think this could very well be how it plays out. Westbrook is declining, and his shooting has never gotten better to offset this decline. I really can see a Carmelo style decline (the rest of league is already treating Westbrook the same way!). The fact that Westbrook couldn’t even fetch a 1st rounder from any other team tells me the Wizards are just not being smart. I think the story ends with Beal leaving Westbrook just like every other star has left him. And then we’ll ask Beal and Sheppard looking back, “Why on Earth did you think this was going to work?”

[Ruzious]

As for Westbrook's trade value... the offseason before this, Westbrook was traded for Chris Paul AND these picks from Houston:

2024 first round pick, protected 1-4
2026 first round pick, protected 1-4
2025 swap, 1-20 protected
2021 swap, protected 1-4 -- OKC can swap Clippers pick or Heat pick.

And he followed that with a typical season for him. There's no question that he's got significant trade value.

[Meliorus]

As for Westbrook's trade value... the offseason before this, Westbrook was traded for Chris Paul AND these picks from Houston:

2024 first round pick, protected 1-4
2026 first round pick, protected 1-4
2025 swap, 1-20 protected
2021 swap, protected 1-4 -- OKC can swap Clippers pick or Heat pick.

And he followed that with a typical season for him. There's no question that he's got significant trade value.

No, he had significant trade value last year, but after this year where Houston literally had to get rid of Capela just to have enough spacing and the fact that he didn’t look like a NBA player in the bubble, the market dried up. Even teams like the Knicks and Charlotte who were originally interested were quickly not interested. Washington was literally the only bidder which is why they were able to avoid giving up a non protected 1st rounder or ANY young players.

Also, OKC literally got everybody fired in Houston due to that Westbrook trade. Chris Paul was flat-out better and went further with Harden and did great in OKC. And now Westbrook is moved to DC for maybe a 1st rounder??

[payitforward]

How about the biggest problem caused by the trade -- what's that?

Seems fairly obvious to me that we aren't going to contend for anything any time soon. Seems fairly obvious to me that we are best understood as a rebuilding team. IMO, if we're not that we're nothing. I.e. we're a franchise with no intentions, no plan.

Trading a R1 pick -- even three years from now -- hinders that rebuilding process.

It’s been obvious for awhile that the Zards aren’t interested in starting over and rebuilding. Otherwise, they would have already traded Beal for a cache of draft picks and/or young players.

For better or for worse, the Zards have made it clear that they’re intent on keeping BB happy and building around the 27 year old SG…and that means winning sooner rather than later. Given that reality/goal, a 2023 first round pick becomes a lot less valuable and important.

Russ is a better player than Wall so presumably that makes the Zards a better team today than they were yesterday. How much better remains to be seen.

Zards -- what you write is certainly true. But, it doesn't change my point. If anything it underscores my point.

The biggest problem with the trade is still losing a R1 pick. In fact, I'd say that, from a basketball POV, it's the only problem with the trade.

What I would question is what it means to say that...

...the Zards aren’t interested in starting over and rebuilding. ...they’re intent on keeping BB happy and building around the 27 year old SG…and that means winning sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure that, given the choice, most of us would prefer "winning sooner rather than later."

I don't mean to be ironic -- its' just that the question is... winning what? I can't see how the Wizards are trying to "win" anything in particular. Get more regular season wins? Sure. Be respectable? Absolutely. Fill the seats? You bet. Keep Brad happy (& in a Wizards uni)? Of course.

But, win a title? No. Contending for a title is in conflict with "winning sooner rather than later."

In fact, not only aren't we trying to win a title "sooner rather than later," we're not trying to do that at all.

[nate33]

As for Westbrook's trade value... the offseason before this, Westbrook was traded for Chris Paul AND these picks from Houston:

2024 first round pick, protected 1-4
2026 first round pick, protected 1-4
2025 swap, 1-20 protected
2021 swap, protected 1-4 -- OKC can swap Clippers pick or Heat pick.

And he followed that with a typical season for him. There's no question that he's got significant trade value.

No, he had significant trade value last year, but after this year where Houston literally had to get rid of Capela just to have enough spacing and the fact that he didn’t look like a NBA player in the bubble, the market dried up. Even teams like the Knicks and Charlotte who were originally interested were quickly not interested. Washington was literally the only bidder which is why they were able to avoid giving up a non protected 1st rounder or ANY young players.

Also, OKC literally got everybody fired in Houston due to that Westbrook trade. Chris Paul was flat-out better and went further with Harden and did great in OKC. And now Westbrook is moved to DC for maybe a 1st rounder??

You are both right.

Ruzious' point is that Westbrook had considerable trade value just a year ago, and he hasn't physically dropped off to any significant degree, so it's reasonable to assume that he can regain positive trade value if things break right.

Your point is also true that Westbrook has minimal trade value at the moment due to his experience in Houston. But I'm somewhat optimistic because I think Houston was a unique situation, and Westbrook's skill set was totally incompatible with their system. The Wizards have more compatible personnel and worse competition in our conference. It wouldn't surprise me if Westbrook could quickly rehabilitate his trade value - maybe not as high as it was a year ago, but at least high enough that he could be moved for positive value.

My only concern is that I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where moving Westbrook helps us retain Beal.

[payitforward]

... I thought it was pretty clear this trade was going to happen when Cousins signed with Houston. Wall and him have been talking about playing together forever so wherever he ended up, I assumed Wall would join (or stay)....

Hey! Clever!!!

Did anyone else pick up on that? I sure didn't.

[NatP4]

Maybe, just maybe, Houston was desperate to keep Harden happy, and believed that bringing in another household name would help with that. I said over and over, some dumb team was going to buy into the Wall comeback.

We never give the front office any credit, a couple weeks ago it was reported that Houston asked for the 9th overall pick in the draft, now they settle for a 15-30 range pick 3 years from now.

Westbrook will come in, benefit from the spacing that Beal, Bertans, and Bryant provide. He will enjoy playing for his old coach again. He won’t have to play next to any ball dominant players. He will put up the same numbers he always have, that is, averaging close to a triple double he will be an all star. At the deadline, plenty of teams will be interested in parting with ATLEAST the same single 1st round pick that it cost to acquire him. Will Washington move him? Who knows.

There were a MILLION reasons to move Wall. The culture has been changed in Washington. Walls lack of effort and selfishness cannot infect this team moving forward. The wizards can’t let 35% of their cap go to nothing and expect Beal to want to stick around. Westbrook has a competitive fire and professionalism that could be a great influence on the younger players.

It’s a culture move, it’s a move to make Beal happy, it’s a move to become a better team now, if they play it right, it could make them better in the future.

[NatP4]

I mean really. It’s a non lottery 2023 pick in exchange for ridding ourselves of the worst contract in the NBA, and acquiring an All-NBA player. Some of the reactions have been ridiculous.