The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

[MyUniBroDavis]

Wait my mans really woke up and thought he did something when he said "HE WAS LUCKEY BAM GOT HURT AND OLYNYK GUARDED HIM!!!"


When theres literally a video by lakersfilmroom covering game 2 called "how the lakers beat the 2-3 zone"

*Laughs in unibrow

I try to be polite but people be making it so easy sometimes

[trickshot]

Still amazing what the Lakers pulled this offseason. Start of free agency was looking like a 2015 Cavs situation where they were sure to have a roster bloated with overpaid roleplayers. How they managed to turn an unfavourable situation into two bargain roleplayers as well as avoiding Green's 15m is something I definitely didn't see coming. Was sure the band was going to be broken up and the team would get weaker

[Dupp]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I'm going to die alone on that hill claiming 2018 playoff LeBron was his best ever and the best player I've ever seen.

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

[Freighttrain]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I'm going to die alone on that hill claiming 2018 playoff LeBron was his best ever and the best player I've ever seen.

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

[limbo]

Unibrow was right lol, i mixed up my stats... Thought something didn't add up.

The competition was still kind of wack though, but I'd take LeBron either way, because of a significant defensive advantage.

[Baski]

Read on Twitter

That game winner against Minny was sick.

2018 LeBron was very fun to watch

[colts18]

You know whats crazy to say

Im pretty confident in saying 2020 AD playoffs >> 2004 KG playoffs (I know people throw his net rtg around for his playoff underperformance but Nearly all of it is from round 1 lol)

2020 bron was like, pretty clearly better than 2020 AD

Honestly, even comparing 2020 playoff bron to 91 jordan, you can prolly make an argument for bron, jordan scored more on a bit less effeciency, but brons passing is way better and defensively 2020 bron might be near peak defensive bron or in that stratosphere, in his iq and all

The defenses and Bigs that AD faced was a joke. He was destroying the #28 defense Blazers, small ball Rockets and the no rim protection Nuggets. Then he gets the break of his life when Bam goes down and gets to face Kelly Olynk. I want to see AD going against prime C Webb, Brick Wall Karl Malone, and Nene/Camby as the clear #1 option as a scorer and creator in a tough defensive environment. Let's see how he does there.

This would be a pretty interesting argument if 53% of his shots pre heat (because those games heat ran zone gave him easy buckets) werent outside the paint lol or if hes shots were significantly more assisted than other atg bigs, or if he wasnt put in an offensive sustem maximizing his strengths and put up a top tier big man scoring run

Ad basically was a perimeter wing offensively that ran a bit of sets as an off ball big, but because the bron and ad pick and roll doesnt get run and the rondo and ad pick and roll they just let rondo tey to score ad pretty much only got off ball scoring at the rim through cutting, and his roll possessions were almost always pops

But im sure rim protection is why AD suddenly played like 2017 kd on offense lul

Also why mention ranking for some teams and not for others lol,

Nuggets were 13th
Kings were 23rd
Lakers were 8th

Blazers were 28th
Rockets were 14th
Nuggets were 16th
Heat were 11th - bam missed two games but AD got hurt in two games too

Now the thing is mentioning rankings is dumb as hell because its about matchups, bam played 4/6 games and AD was pretty good in all of them although his ankle was missed up for 5 and 6, and he went super defensive in 4 (although the game both were fully healthy he killed them).

I agree that alot of the teams the lakers faced werent great with rim peotection but AD is a faceup wing the way he was deployed in the playoffs, and people put wings on him instead of bigs unless theyre hella switchable.

It say the rockets were an easy matchup, although should note people were saying tucker would clamp him ip, whiteside isnt a good defender but hes an excellent man defender that has better metrics as a post defender than gobert, and the nuggets were ok but guys like jokic or plumlee arent stopping AD so they put millsap who did reasonably well

Mentioning bigs is weird because theres a reason non switchy werent guarding AD in the playoffs lol

Every single one of those teams had a joke defense. Davis should be destroying the no defense Blazers and Nuggets. He had 35 year old Millsap and Jokic on him. He should be destroying the Rockets if they have 6' 5" PJ Tucker guarding him. That is nothing special. He should be destroying the Heat with Kelly Olynk. Mentioning a zone in the NBA is laughable. Zones get beat easily in the NBA. Davis had so many easy baskets against the Heat zone. AD had a 67 FG%/57 3P% with Bam off the court in the finals then had a 47 FG%/33 3P% when Bam was on the court. That's the closest thing AD had to legit competition.

How well is AD doing if he had freakin Derrick Martin as his PG passing him the ball, Trenton Hassell on the wings and his starting bigs are Ervin "Not Magic" Johnson and Michael Olowakandi, the biggest bust in history? And do that in an extremely physical era on the team who was 27th in 3 point shooting? He would struggle. We saw what happened to AD in New Orleans when his team was mediocre. Made the playoffs just twice in 7 years. If you give KG LeBron as his #1 option, floor spacing 3 point shooting, a soft era, and playing against weak defensive teams, he would look like amazing too.

[MyUniBroDavis]

The defenses and Bigs that AD faced was a joke. He was destroying the #28 defense Blazers, small ball Rockets and the no rim protection Nuggets. Then he gets the break of his life when Bam goes down and gets to face Kelly Olynk. I want to see AD going against prime C Webb, Brick Wall Karl Malone, and Nene/Camby as the clear #1 option as a scorer and creator in a tough defensive environment. Let's see how he does there.

This would be a pretty interesting argument if 53% of his shots pre heat (because those games heat ran zone gave him easy buckets) werent outside the paint lol or if hes shots were significantly more assisted than other atg bigs, or if he wasnt put in an offensive sustem maximizing his strengths and put up a top tier big man scoring run

Ad basically was a perimeter wing offensively that ran a bit of sets as an off ball big, but because the bron and ad pick and roll doesnt get run and the rondo and ad pick and roll they just let rondo tey to score ad pretty much only got off ball scoring at the rim through cutting, and his roll possessions were almost always pops

But im sure rim protection is why AD suddenly played like 2017 kd on offense lul

Also why mention ranking for some teams and not for others lol,

Nuggets were 13th
Kings were 23rd
Lakers were 8th

Blazers were 28th
Rockets were 14th
Nuggets were 16th
Heat were 11th - bam missed two games but AD got hurt in two games too

Now the thing is mentioning rankings is dumb as hell because its about matchups, bam played 4/6 games and AD was pretty good in all of them although his ankle was missed up for 5 and 6, and he went super defensive in 4 (although the game both were fully healthy he killed them).

I agree that alot of the teams the lakers faced werent great with rim peotection but AD is a faceup wing the way he was deployed in the playoffs, and people put wings on him instead of bigs unless theyre hella switchable.

It say the rockets were an easy matchup, although should note people were saying tucker would clamp him ip, whiteside isnt a good defender but hes an excellent man defender that has better metrics as a post defender than gobert, and the nuggets were ok but guys like jokic or plumlee arent stopping AD so they put millsap who did reasonably well

Mentioning bigs is weird because theres a reason non switchy werent guarding AD in the playoffs lol

Every single one of those teams had a joke defense. Davis should be destroying the no defense Blazers and Nuggets. He had 35 year old Millsap and Jokic on him. He should be destroying the Rockets if they have 6' 5" PJ Tucker guarding him. That is nothing special. He should be destroying the Heat with Kelly Olynk. Mentioning a zone in the NBA is laughable. Zones get beat easily in the NBA. Davis had so many easy baskets against the Heat zone. AD had a 67 FG%/57 3P% with Bam off the court in the finals then had a 47 FG%/33 3P% when Bam was on the court. That's the closest thing AD had to legit competition.

How well is AD doing if he had freakin Derrick Martin as his PG passing him the ball, Trenton Hassell on the wings and his starting bigs are Ervin "Not Magic" Johnson and Michael Olowakandi, the biggest bust in history? And do that in an extremely physical era on the team who was 27th in 3 point shooting? He would struggle. We saw what happened to AD in New Orleans when his team was mediocre. Made the playoffs just twice in 7 years. If you give KG LeBron as his #1 option, floor spacing 3 point shooting, a soft era, and playing against weak defensive teams, he would look like amazing too.

You understand that they SWITCHED those guys on to davis because davis offensively with the ball plays like a PERIMETER WING right?

Oh yes, keep telling me how davis should destroy kelly olynk in a ZONE DEFENSE, wtf is this lmao.
By the way, how did the lakera stop the rockets again, post g3? Lmfao

Yes, typically, a good shooting big that can operate off ball is a good counter to the zone. I also hear that point guards usually are good at passing lmfao

Also not mentioning AD was injured for 2/4 games with bam, and in multiple games (4 and 6) he flat out said "yeah im letting bron go on offense and focusing on defense"

AD was literally a different player till 2019 where he basically gave the team a middle finger. Ive broken down hos his game changed each year, 2015 he was a limited goorified garbage man but incredible off ball, 2016 he tried to gain weight to bang withvengers but didnt do it the right way so he got alot slower and he tried to make his game more on ball and it didnt work, ditto 2017, 2018 he acclimated to his new body, dominated post cousins injury, 2019 he upped his playmaking but quit in his team

Also, really odd you mentioned fg and 3pt% without mentioning fts or the percentages he shot inside and outside

4.8/9.3 inside the arc, 51.6%
1/3 outside it, 33%
4.8/5.3 from three
So TS of 59.12, which is fine lol, esp given he was hobbled in 2/4 games.
+2.6TS vs league average

Garnett
9.1/19.8 inside the arc, 45.8%
0.3/0.9 outside the arc, 31.3%
5.4/6.9 ft, 77.6%
So TS of 51.3%, -0.3 vs league average

In theory, its more difficult to beat league average today as a volume scorer outside of those super high spacing teams, because league average has been driven up from midrange spot up guys going to 3pt spot up guys, or post guys that arent good enough to be post guys becoming roll men

The wolves were 27th in volume but 5th in 3pt percentage. Take out garnett and theyre second. (He made 0.1 a game so volumes about the same, just missed alot lol)

The lakers were 22th in volume and 21st in 3pt percentage. Take out AD and theyre 29th and 21st.

In terms of spacing RELATIVE to the league you cant say garnetts in a much better situation.

I mean the only argument for 04 playoff garnett is literally his plus minus which is based off of a hilariously noisy and small sample. More than that, nearly ALL of it comes from round 1

They were +58 with him in round 1 -38 without him

Outside of that, they were -18 with him, -3 without him.

Outside of round 1 the lakers were +105 with AD -14 without him. Thats not cherrypicking because he was impactful in round 1 too

But the thing is looking at it that was is dumb as hell lol.

The wolves were obviously solid offensicely, their placement in the league is definately inflated because a few guys that were squarely ahead of then proceeded to get destroyed on offense vs the pistons, but their round by round rel offensive rtg was +1.7, -4.9, +3.5, which is solid, not near the lakers outside of garbage time but solid

On other notes

Its significant to me that in the conference finals, in 4/6 close games, garnett stats in those fourth quarters (im definining it as games within 5 points at any time in the fourth quarter)

G1, 2/6 shooting, 2 rebounds, 2 fouls, +2
(In the fourth quarter, made a catch and shoot midrange, missed a layup, made a jumper, and as it was a 5 point game here with a few minutes left, got blocked by shaq, missed a 5 foot jumper, missed a long two, fouled shaq and kobe, in 3 possessions in a row)

G3, 1/2 shooting (both were threes), 2/2fts, 3 rebounds 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 3 fouls, -5
Garnett scored his first points of fts when it was an 8 point game with 8 minutes to go (quarter started out at 5). He travelled two possessions later, and then got the ball stolen 3 possessions after that. He then got an assist, a three, and an assist on three after getting the offensive board on three consecutive possessions. Thats cool and all but these consecutive possessions happened when it was a 17 point game with 5 minutes left

G5, 0/3 shooting, 5/6 ft, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 2 fouls, -10
Its a stretch to call this when it was close because it wasnt close untill literally the last second lol, it only fot in single difits with 30 seconds to go

G6 4 points, 2/5 shooting 0/1 ft, 4 rebounds, an assist, a steal, three turnovers, -11
(And from the start of the fourh to when it became a ten point game, garnett recorded: a missed jump shot, a travel, and and one layup, missing the ft, a charging foul, an assist, and a missed jump shot. He made his last points of the series with it being an 11 point game with 2.5 minutes left).

On a game by game basis he was very poor in 3/4 of the close games, and the only game he wasnt in a box score basis was game 3, but he didnt get his stats in till the game was essentially decided, and contributed two turnovers to deciding it before that

In terms of a "when it was close" you can take out game 5 since it wasnt close untill the last few seconds, but on a game by game basis

Game 1 his team brought him back (the lakers offense did fine in that span, and they were bombing threes, all assisted by sprewell not garnett) and as they bring it back to a 4 point game garnett misses 3 shots in the final 1.5 minutes and they lose by 9

Game 3 starts as a 5 point game. After drawing fts 4 minutes in he cuts the lead to 6, he turns it over twice in the next dew ninutes as the lakers bring the lead up to 17, where garnett gets both of his assists and his only field goal when the game was already decided. Granted those play cut it to 11, then he missed a three and the game was decised a minute or twi later.

Game 6
Tie game at the start, missed a jumper, travels, makes a layup missed the and one, then charges. He assists in a layup with 5 minutes to go to cut it to 6. His next contribution was a layup with 2 and a half minutes to go when down by 11 to cut it to 9, and then fouling kobe on a shot and turning it over soon after sealing the game

While its fair to note that there were alot of games bron took over instead of AD particularly in the finals

But my man, garnett threw, i think the fact that in 3 losses where the game was in doubt in the fourth he wasnt exactly a number one option other than turning it over a bunch lol

No ones saying kg was bad but trying to point out ADs stats only being signicantly above average when guarded by the switchiest big man in the nba thats basically build to stop AD when he had a heel injury as well-

Actually, on second thought, respond when you learn how a 2-3 zone works

[homecourtloss]

THT looks like a future all defensive player. For all their mishaps, Lakers were extremely good at finding talent: Zubac, Caruso, THT.

Unless a bunch of players take multiple games off (highly possible), there’s a bit of a logjam for playing time. Lakers’ 11th best player looks like a bonafide rotation player

[nbhadja]

Spoiler:

I'm going to die alone on that hill claiming 2018 playoff LeBron was his best ever and the best player I've ever seen.

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

2009 Lebron was physically explosive and dominant based on his athleticism and experience combo, but he is far inferior compared to any later version of Lebron. 2009 Lebron is popular among casual fans because of his explosive eye pleasing game. For star wars nerds 09 Lebron is episode 3 Anakin Skywalker and later versions of Lebron are Darth Vader (with not as much athleticism loss).

Best version: 2018 Lebron
Best series: 2016 finals
Best game: 2012 Lebron game 6 ECF

[MyUniBroDavis]

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

2009 Lebron was physically explosive and dominant based on his athleticism and experience combo, but he is far inferior compared to any later version of Lebron. 2009 Lebron is popular among casual fans because of his explosive eye pleasing game. For star wars nerds 09 Lebron is episode 3 Anakin Skywalker and later versions of Lebron are Darth Vader (with not as much athleticism loss).

Best version: 2018 Lebron
Best series: 2016 finals
Best game: 2012 Lebron game 6 ECF

Tbf i think anakin>vader but idk much about star wars, but agreed

[LikeABosh]

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

2009 Lebron was physically explosive and dominant based on his athleticism and experience combo, but he is far inferior compared to any later version of Lebron. 2009 Lebron is popular among casual fans because of his explosive eye pleasing game. For star wars nerds 09 Lebron is episode 3 Anakin Skywalker and later versions of Lebron are Darth Vader (with not as much athleticism loss).

Best version: 2018 Lebron
Best series: 2016 finals
Best game: 2012 Lebron game 6 ECF

Actually a really good comparison

[Freighttrain]

I don’t think that’s an uncommon opinion

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

2009 Lebron was physically explosive and dominant based on his athleticism and experience combo, but he is far inferior compared to any later version of Lebron. 2009 Lebron is popular among casual fans because of his explosive eye pleasing game. For star wars nerds 09 Lebron is episode 3 Anakin Skywalker and later versions of Lebron are Darth Vader (with not as much athleticism loss).

Best version: 2018 Lebron
Best series: 2016 finals
Best game: 2012 Lebron game 6 ECF

I agree entirely, I don't know the Star Wars reference though but I'll take your word for it, but I would say game 6 2012 ECF was his most important game, not his best.

[Greyhound]

From what I've seen, most people chose his 2013 season as his best, followed by 2009 because of his athletic ability. I've seen 2017 mentioned more than 2018, which I disagree with. They're all great in their own way obviously, but his 2018 playoff run was special. I also regard his 2020 playoff performance as a top 3 probably. He didn't have one off game and put up some monster games in the finals. His control of the game has been phenomenal the last few postseasons.

2009 Lebron was physically explosive and dominant based on his athleticism and experience combo, but he is far inferior compared to any later version of Lebron. 2009 Lebron is popular among casual fans because of his explosive eye pleasing game. For star wars nerds 09 Lebron is episode 3 Anakin Skywalker and later versions of Lebron are Darth Vader (with not as much athleticism loss).

Best version: 2018 Lebron
Best series: 2016 finals
Best game: 2012 Lebron game 6 ECF

I agree entirely, I don't know the Star Wars reference though but I'll take your word for it, but I would say game 6 2012 ECF was his most important game, not his best.

Context matters.

All things considered, game six Boston is the greatest game LeBron has ever played. I agree with that statement.

It may not be his best statistical outing, but the LeBron that played that game was unlike any before, or since.

From a mentality and focus standpoint, it was like his ultimate form.

[MisterHibachi]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

THT has so much potential. Idk if he'll get legit rotation minutes this year though. Guard rotation is pretty crowded with Dennis, Caruso, Wes, and KCP.

[MisterHibachi]

Gasol's passing is insane. Lakers are gonna be able to cut off him so much.

[homecourtloss]

Gasol's passing is insane. Lakers are gonna be able to cut off him so much.

Screen game with James and Gasol, P&P and repass to James, James/AD P&R game with Gasol in the corner or screen actions with Gasol and AD in the corner...possibilities are endless.

This looks by far the best team LeBron has had around him. Their 8th/9th/10th best players are between KCP/Matthews/Schroeder/Harrell/Kuzma/Morris/THT

[yoyoboy]

Gasol’s passing looks great but his mobility on both ends looks toast.

[Fadeaway_J]

THT just getting anywhere he wants.

[yoyoboy]

THT is better than Kuzma.