Giannis SIGNS

[coolhandluke121]

Exactly. I am fighting with this thought for months. Its quite possible that Bud made PERFECT system for Giannis and Middleton at offense and perfect system for Lopez and Giannis at defense. This simple system may indeed be perfect for player like Giannis. Not much thinking and very simple sets. Defense is also made to produce a lot of fast breaks and also to use Giannis in paint. It all looks perfectly adjusted to use Giannis strengths and to hide Giannis weaknesses. It doesn't work in playoffs offcourse but Giannis wouldn't be MVP without Bud system. I am 100% sure about that.

If we fire Bud we may find better playoff coach but if that coach change regular season system then Giannis will not have MVP numbers anymore. Our entire system is made to make Giannis numbers great. Unfortunately only in regular season.

I do think it's probably the right system for the personnel, but I would be okay with eventually firing Bud and trying a new coach to test that theory. Coaches are much more expendable than superstars, or even secondary stars like Jrue and Khris. I think they would have similar issues though.

This system will never dominate the playoffs the way they have dominated the regular season. I still think there's a chance it's good enough to win a title if they execute better though (mainly hit more 3's).

[MikeIsGood]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

That thread is hilarious. They were all talking like it was a foregone conclusion that Giannis would sign there. What a collection of **** idiots.

Anyway, I dropped about 50 and1s for ya.

That thread isn't too different from the threads your very own fanbase was having on the discussion. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Appreciate the and1s

You mean the team he already plays for and has been fiercely loyal to, with no actual indication he would leave?

Yes, totally similar situations.

[coolhandluke121]

You finally get it!

When you're a team like Milwaukee you have to take what you can get. You can't operate under the assumption a star player who may or may not become available later will be able to be acquired or that the player will want to come here. They had that in both instances in the case of Jrue. Don't twist and turn again and try to make "guarantee" refer to the outcome with the player acquired. In this conversation, we're talking about the guarantee of even acquiring a player. You're the one dealing in a dangerous hypothetical in this case. You act as if by acquiring a lesser player in Schroeder or Oladipo, that it is a foregone conclusion they could use the saved assets to land a bigger fish down the line. It's not - far from it in fact. It's Milwaukee. Deal with reality.

I take it back. You don't get it.

[buckboy]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

That thread is hilarious. They were all talking like it was a foregone conclusion that Giannis would sign there. What a collection of **** idiots.

Anyway, I dropped about 50 and1s for ya.

That thread isn't too different from the threads your very own "fanbase" was having on the discussion. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Appreciate the and1s

You guys sound like complete dolts. We sounded like panicked fans.

There's a difference.

[Matches Malone]

This thread is just begging for some And 1's.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2027748

That thread is hilarious. They were all talking like it was a foregone conclusion that Giannis would sign there. What a collection of **** idiots.

Anyway, I dropped about 50 and1s for ya.

That thread isn't too different from the threads your very own "fanbase" was having on the discussion. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Appreciate the and1s

You can sling it for 2 years but can't take a little ribbing for half an hour.

[buckboy]

That thread is hilarious. They were all talking like it was a foregone conclusion that Giannis would sign there. What a collection of **** idiots.

Anyway, I dropped about 50 and1s for ya.

That thread isn't too different from the threads your very own "fanbase" was having on the discussion. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Appreciate the and1s

You can sling it for 2 years but can't take a little ribbing for half an hour.

No kidding.

And for those who haven't read that thread, I strongly recommend it. There is some absolute gold in there.

[Ron Swanson]

I've never ventured over to another team's board until now. Apparently they have 4-5 threads just on the first page about a player that they never had a chance of getting. My lord, that's pathetic.

[raferfenix]

Windhorst and Aronovitz's report says the Bucks only "eventually reluctantly" agreed to trade Hill to the Pelicans as part of the Holiday deal.

That was after we had already missed out on Schroder, potentially due to wanting to keep Hill out of it.

I forget where but am remembering someone saying Hill was involved in the Bogdan recruitment too which made the situation even weirder.

As the process around Holiday dragged out and the Nov. 18 draft inched closer, the Bucks upped their initial offer of Bledsoe and a couple of first-round draft picks and a future pick swap, eventually reluctantly agreeing to include veteran guard George Hill.

The Bucks endured a long weekend while New Orleans mulled over the offers and, effectively, the direction of their team. Griffin eventually came back with another ask: one more first-round pick and one more pick swap to make for three total first rounders and two swaps. Essentially, New Orleans wanted to control the Bucks' draft for five years, starting in 2020.

This last offer staggered Milwaukee. As the decision-makers discussed it internally, sources said, they knew it was an overpay. They also knew there was the matter of eventually extending Holiday, which is expected to cost in the range of $30 million per season, sources said. But they recognized that not only would it be a tremendous upgrade to their roster but a strong message to the man in Greece, who was waiting to see substantial improvement.

The Bucks responded on that Monday: They'd do the three picks and two swaps. Griffin agreed. The Bucks had landed Holiday and that same day, they believed they had reeled in another Antetokounmpo pick.

https://tv5.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/30528852/how-milwaukee-bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-reached-massive-deal

[Turk Nowitzki]

Pelicans bent us over from a negotiating standpoint on that deal, no doubt about it.

[yannisk]

Definitely worth noting that Steph told Budenholzer that Kerr tried to model their offense and ball movement off Bud's teams in Atlanta when he first became their coach. I definitely agree with people who have criticized the Bucks' ball movement and approach, but it's far from conclusive that it's the coaching staff's fault IMO. I truly believe that the Bucks have had some low BBIQ players who don't really have good instincts for moving off the ball and keeping the ball circulating, and I'm not at all convinced that a coach like Spoelstra could make them play significantly smarter offense. It would require a lot of micromanaging and that has its own drawbacks, even if guys could handle a more cerebral scheme.

Exactly. I am fighting with this thought for months. Its quite possible that Bud made PERFECT system for Giannis and Middleton at offense and perfect system for Lopez and Giannis at defense. This simple system may indeed be perfect for player like Giannis. Not much thinking and very simple sets. Defense is also made to produce a lot of fast breaks and also to use Giannis in paint. It all looks perfectly adjusted to use Giannis strengths and to hide Giannis weaknesses. It doesn't work in playoffs offcourse but Giannis wouldn't be MVP without Bud system. I am 100% sure about that.

If we fire Bud we may find better playoff coach but if that coach change regular season system then Giannis will not have MVP numbers anymore. Our entire system is made to make Giannis numbers great. Unfortunately only in regular season.

Giannis and Middleton had their best playoff performance against Boston before Bud. Giannis as 23 year old had great stats in the regular season not the team record though.

[Sigra]

I do think it's probably the right system for the personnel, but I would be okay with eventually firing Bud and trying a new coach to test that theory.

Me too. But I am afraid Giannis will not like it. If new coach ask for more movement and team basketball and less "give ball to Giannis and stay at 3 point line" I am extremely curious to see Giannis reaction.

[coolhandluke121]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Definitely worth noting that Steph told Budenholzer that Kerr tried to model their offense and ball movement off Bud's teams in Atlanta when he first became their coach. I definitely agree with people who have criticized the Bucks' ball movement and approach, but it's far from conclusive that it's the coaching staff's fault IMO. I truly believe that the Bucks have had some low BBIQ players who don't really have good instincts for moving off the ball and keeping the ball circulating, and I'm not at all convinced that a coach like Spoelstra could make them play significantly smarter offense. It would require a lot of micromanaging and that has its own drawbacks, even if guys could handle a more cerebral scheme.

Exactly. I am fighting with this thought for months. Its quite possible that Bud made PERFECT system for Giannis and Middleton at offense and perfect system for Lopez and Giannis at defense. This simple system may indeed be perfect for player like Giannis. Not much thinking and very simple sets. Defense is also made to produce a lot of fast breaks and also to use Giannis in paint. It all looks perfectly adjusted to use Giannis strengths and to hide Giannis weaknesses. It doesn't work in playoffs offcourse but Giannis wouldn't be MVP without Bud system. I am 100% sure about that.

If we fire Bud we may find better playoff coach but if that coach change regular season system then Giannis will not have MVP numbers anymore. Our entire system is made to make Giannis numbers great. Unfortunately only in regular season.

the perfect system for giannis is to allow him to shoot 3's and generally have horrid shot selection for the entire squad?

i do agree there are elements that suit us but there is NO system that is good that allows no accountability as it relates to shot taking. this let it fly mentality has become code for horrible shots are ok too. i absolutely hate it.

our defense reminds me when we were crazy good with that gimmick defense kidds first year. it took a year for teams to figure out then we sucked with that too. we have good individual defenders. stick to hard work and basic fundamentals and accept the outcome.

just done with how buds going with this. reminds me so much of kidds hardheadedness

[raferfenix]

I'm feeling hopeful the Holiday trade will be viewed as a major success.

He was the best available talent we could acquire, and unlike the likes of Harden or other stars who might become available, Jrue seems like a shoe in to be game to stay in Milwaukee long term.

That said, George Hill definitely would have been valued on this team if we could have sent out Ersan + DJ or the like instead of him.

But David Griffin knew the position the Bucks were in, and (hopefully) to our credit, we made a bold play to close the deal despite having to overpay.

[coolhandluke121]

the perfect system for giannis is to allow him to shoot 3's and generally have horrid shot selection for the entire squad?

i do agree there are elements that suit us but there is NO system that is good that allows no accountability as it relates to shot taking. this let it fly mentality has become code for horrible shots are ok too. i absolutely hate it.

our defense reminds me when we were crazy good with that gimmick defense kidds first year. it took a year for teams to figure out then we sucked with that too. we have good individual defenders. stick to hard work and basic fundamentals and accept the outcome.

just done with how buds going with this. reminds me so much of kidds hardheadedness

To be fair, I'm not at all convinced the Bucks were consistently playing hard in the bubble, even in the playoffs. They looked pretty good on defense against Miami when they finally cranked it up, but the only thing that lit their collective fire was avoiding a sweep. They went right back to going through the motions again in game 5.

[Sigra]

the perfect system for giannis is to allow him to shoot 3's and generally have horrid shot selection for the entire squad?

That is by product. We are playing fast, we are playing early in the clock, we are playing simple and we try to attack while defense is not 100% set. All of that is perfect for Giannis.

If we slow down to run complicate sets, defense will be set (like it is in playoffs when good oponents force us to slow down) and we will need to think more. We will need better decision makings and we all see that Giannis is not good at that.

Bud made it simple for reason. Bud made it simple and fast exactly because he wanted to avoid what we see in playoffs. The problem is: we will have to play playoffs if we want championships and in playoffs good opponent force us to slow down and to think. We are not good at that.

Hopefully, Jrue will help in that department. But only if Giannis allow him.

[Matches Malone]

Read on Twitter

[Ron Swanson]

The Jrue trade is 100% justified if it ends up resulting in a championship, whether it be this season or in the next 3-4. That's all that matters.

[ajb905]

Trading for Bogdon (or Paul) and having picks to move for another player would have been 100% justified if it ends up resulting in a championship. The problem is as coolhandluke has said, there are no guarantees. As a decision maker you can't control the results but you can control the process.

Getting bent over by NOR, flubbing the Bogdon deal, the Pat contract shows for one of the most important offseasons in team history, the team didn't have it's shite together. Giannis signing papers over those cracks. But it still doesn't bode well not having a top notch front office, if the Jrue move doesn't work like we all want it to.

[buckboy]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

Eh. Maybe, maybe not with Hill. He was hurt/bad from February 1 on, missing 8 games and shooting poorly from distance in the games he played before the shutdown. Then he was meh in the bubble, again shooting poorly from distance. Then he was a complete disaster in the playoffs.

Might be something, might be nothing.

With regard to your second paragraph, yeah they probably negotiated poorly.