Knicks - Cavs PG II

[Richard4444]

It’s minor, but the upgrades on the roster, even the backend, it’s noticeable to me..

Quickley > Smith
Pinson > Trier
Harper > Allen
Burks > Ellington
Toppin > Portis (overall better team player)

Slowly, but surely upgrading!

Noel > Taj

Rivers > Dotson (?)

[F N 11]

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CAA

[Clyde_Style]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

That's the culture factor we've been lacking. Talent is not enough. They drafted two team oriented guys who work hard and want to be coached. The difference is palpable.

It is also goes the other way too. We have a legit coaching staff and you can see the team playing differently already. It's kind of remarkable how fast the kids are picking up what they are learning. So, in the past, even if drafted kids with good attitudes, they were yanked around by crazy rotations and not coached up properly and it was damaging. That Knox is responding now may be because it is his third year, but it seems even more so that he is finally in the right environment to succeed.

Third, having a real floor general makes all the difference in the world. Without that, the coaches are coaching a headless chicken. IQ is making everyone look good all of a sudden. So I don't know if the Knicks felt IQ would rise to the occasion (I do think Payne told them that, but Rose probably wasn't betting on it), but for the first two things to click you still need a good PG to pull it all together.

[Knicks Byke]

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CAA

WIll you be changing your name this season?










love you.

[thebuzzardman]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

But JR Smith won a championship as a starter. He directly contributed to winning basketball.

I think the winning basketball argument is definitely overused. People will say stuff like Frank is more of a winning player than Harden or Westbrook because they don't like their play style. Unless you have someone that is actively hurting you on defense every play like Kanter or KAT then almost anyone in the NBA can contribute to winning with the right #1 and #2 options leading the team.

Hence the first bolded line.

I still think an org is better off picking up guys more willing to fill a role, since they are easier to fit with the alpha if and when that guys comes in.

It's kind of a subtle argument - not implying you don't get it, more that it's an opinion, hard to prove, maybe not even necessarily true.

Quick edit: I think any kind of knucklehead with an ability can be part of a winning team. But the more a team adds, the harder it is, especially if the alpha isn't there yet, or if the team's best player doesn't have huge talent and/or a certain leadership gravitas.
Lebron's ability and mentality, for instance, can tamp down a few guys and hide their on court deficiencies as well.

But still, not disagreeing with you.

[EnigmatiC]

You guys know any site where I can watch this? Was out last night couldn’t tune in

720.ru, create an account and DL the game via torrent.
The one up is the cav's feed.

It's a toss up which feed will show up, and I've rarely, if ever, seen two.

Usually I cringe when I get the other team's feed, though there are few announcers I like, like Dominique Wilkens doing the Hawks.

The Cav's announcers were kind of clowning the Knicks in the first game.

I'm excited that I got the Cav's announcers to watch the game again, after having the MSG feed.
Their tears will be delicious.

I hate watching other teams feed too but at this point they’re probably better than hearing Wally who seems to be watching a different game than the rest of us.

Thank you for the link

[Phish Tank]

Read on Twitter

https://knicksfantv.com/knicks-119-vs-cavaliers-83-recap-and-player-reviews/

Remi back at it!

[SelbyCobra]

[Clyde_Style]

Harper looks good too

Him and IQ are the best guards

With Rivers and Frank I see zero justification to play Elf

EDIT: DSJr is in danger of falling out of the rotation too.

That's six guards. Two are not going to play. We know IQ and Rivers will play so it comes down to whether Harper gets the nod and if Frank is still in their plans.

[Chanel Bomber]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

That's the culture factor we've been lacking. Talent is not enough. They drafted two team oriented guys who work hard and want to be coached. The difference is palpable.

It is also goes the other way too. We have a legit coaching staff and you can see the team playing differently already. It's kind of remarkable how fast the kids are picking up what they are learning. So, in the past, even if drafted kids with good attitudes, they were yanked around by crazy rotations and not coached up properly and it was damaging. That Knox is responding now may be because it is his third year, but it seems even more so that he is finally in the right environment to succeed.

Third, having a real floor general makes all the difference in the world. Without that, the coaches are coaching a headless chicken. IQ is making everyone look good all of a sudden. So I don't know if the Knicks felt IQ would rise to the occasion (I do think Payne told them that, but Rose probably wasn't betting on it), but for the first two things to click you still need a good PG to pull it all together.

Outside of the infamous vets, I love the culture we're establishing with these smart, high-character kids.

As you said Knox seems to be responding (hopefully not a short-term thing), he seems like the sponge type who adapts to his environment and needs to be elevated by his teammates. Mitch is a different cat but he doesn't give off a negative vibe.

If he could just let go of his ego, I could even see Randle fitting in. I don't think he's a bad dude to be around, and by all accounts he's a hard-worker.

I'll admit I underestimated the Thibs' hire. It's very important we have a coach who has more cache than the veterans who seemed to run the team under Fiz and Miller. Both were rookie head coaches who catered to the vets (vets who had achieved absolutely nothing in the NBA) because they had no credibility. And in fact neither one of them was offered a coaching job this past summer. Thibs has been in the ECF as a head coach. I'm not his biggest fan but he knows what real, playoff basketball is about.

[2010]

Read on Twitter

Plot switch, Mitch the one giving Nerlens advice.

[Clyde_Style]

Yup. All that is true.

Don't misconstrue my posts, though I'm not the only one a little down on Obi. I'll admit to being a little strong with it, because the realization set in he won't be ready for bigger contribution IMMEDIATELY, which I was hoping for. That doesn't mean he won't contribute. My posts were more about adjusting my expectations and voicing that.

So, not unlike RJ, the stuff you listed above shows Obi is a pretty relentless worker and also listens to coaching. So high probability he reaches whatever ceiling he has - which none of us really know.

The really nice thing about him, and kudos to the scouts etc, is that with Obi and Quickley, they picked guys who want to be coached and fit into the team concept, and already have a high confidence and an inclination to attack/get the D moving, while also being VERY team oriented in their style of play\mentality. And it's the one of the reasons I liked Frank, though his talent and/or confidence hasn't allowed him to pan, so far; maybe never. But if you are going to have ANY player, but particularly a role player - and by role I mean basically anyone that isn't the team's #1, #2 option, is that it's far better to have a player who is willing to play team ball, fill a role, do anything - than a role player whose style is more built on playing like a #1 option, just minus the ability.
Meaning, JR Smith and Knicks' Beasley are really good basketball players, but is their style really conducive to winning basketball? And even that argument is kind of overstated, but I think it's better to have Obi\Quickley, even Frank types, than those guys.

And while the FO could have made like 4 different moves that would have made the team better in FA or maybe a trade, outside Elf, which was a highly ignorant move, at least guys like Noel, Burks, (Rivers?) seem to be have a stay in their lane\play team ball mentality

That's the culture factor we've been lacking. Talent is not enough. They drafted two team oriented guys who work hard and want to be coached. The difference is palpable.

It is also goes the other way too. We have a legit coaching staff and you can see the team playing differently already. It's kind of remarkable how fast the kids are picking up what they are learning. So, in the past, even if drafted kids with good attitudes, they were yanked around by crazy rotations and not coached up properly and it was damaging. That Knox is responding now may be because it is his third year, but it seems even more so that he is finally in the right environment to succeed.

Third, having a real floor general makes all the difference in the world. Without that, the coaches are coaching a headless chicken. IQ is making everyone look good all of a sudden. So I don't know if the Knicks felt IQ would rise to the occasion (I do think Payne told them that, but Rose probably wasn't betting on it), but for the first two things to click you still need a good PG to pull it all together.

Outside of the infamous vets, I love the culture we're establishing with these smart, high-character kids.

As you said Knox seems to be responding (hopefully not a short-term thing), he seems like the sponge type who adapts to his environment and needs to be elevated by his teammates. Mitch is a different cat but he doesn't give off a negative vibe.

If he could just let go of his ego, I could even see Randle fitting in. I don't think he's a bad dude to be around, and by all accounts he's a hard-worker.

I'll admit I underestimated the Thibs' hire. It's very important we have a coach who has more cache than the veterans who seemed to run the team under Fiz and Miller. Both were rookie head coaches who catered to the vets (vets who had achieved absolutely nothing in the NBA) because they had no credibility. And in fact neither one of them was offered a coaching job this past summer. Thibs has been in the ECF as a head coach. I'm not his biggest fan but he knows what real, playoff basketball is about.

IQ changed everything for Thibs TBH. My overall opinion of Thibs will be based on whether or not he embraces the youth movement now. In the past it seemed the justification to play journeymen vets was it made us more competitive. I don't think it was necessarily true, but that was the rationale of coaches playing for their jobs. Thibs is not playing for his job. He's not going anywhere. He'll probably retire as coach of the Knicks. So I want to see if he takes that stupid rationale used by previous coaches and smashes it to bits. If he does that, I'll be satisfied we're in good hands.

[KNIXFAN_83]

This is the most inspiring knick moment in a long time. Loving the youth. Thibs has this team on a road to overachieving when was the last time the Knicks did that. I also gotta give props to Julius. It’s clear the coaching staff has been talking to him. This was one of his best games as a knick IMO. He played team first basketball and led the team in assist and shot 50%. I’m loving the energy this year. Guys are working hard and buying in. Here’s my lineup.

Quickly/Payton/DSj
RJ/Rivers/Ntilikina
Burks/Knox/Reggie Bull
Randle/Obi/MKG
Mitch/Noel

15th man unsure.

Also keep an eye on RJ defense this year. It’s not being talked about enough. He’s playing great defense in preseason.

[Jeff Van Gully]

You guys know any site where I can watch this? Was out last night couldn’t tune in

720.ru, create an account and DL the game via torrent.
The one up is the cav's feed.

It's a toss up which feed will show up, and I've rarely, if ever, seen two.

Usually I cringe when I get the other team's feed, though there are few announcers I like, like Dominique Wilkens doing the Hawks.

The Cav's announcers were kind of clowning the Knicks in the first game.

I'm excited that I got the Cav's announcers to watch the game again, after having the MSG feed.
Their tears will be delicious.

wow. dominique is def in my bottom 5. he is one of the least insightful, most spicy mouth...

[thebuzzardman]

You guys know any site where I can watch this? Was out last night couldn’t tune in

720.ru, create an account and DL the game via torrent.
The one up is the cav's feed.

It's a toss up which feed will show up, and I've rarely, if ever, seen two.

Usually I cringe when I get the other team's feed, though there are few announcers I like, like Dominique Wilkens doing the Hawks.

The Cav's announcers were kind of clowning the Knicks in the first game.

I'm excited that I got the Cav's announcers to watch the game again, after having the MSG feed.
Their tears will be delicious.

wow. dominique is def in my bottom 5. he is one of the least insightful, most spicy mouth...

Normally, I'd agree, but for some reason, I get a kick out of him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

Plot switch, Mitch the one giving Nerlens advice.

*dead*

[stuporman]

So Quickley just might be a messiah if he can turn Randle into a winning player because Dubious Handle had more assists than he had FGA.

Quickley might be an exorcist because with him on the court next to Mitch the young big didn't commit one foul.

Quickley just may be a prophet because somehow he found Knox's 3 stroke.

.....or maybe he's just the Knicks PG of the future...which would be a harder thing to accomplish than being those other three.

Thibs won't begin the season with him as starter because I suspect he thinks there some justifiable reasoning to support that erroneous conclusion but coach...prove me wrong.

[nedleeds]

Payton has had 6 years to solidify his position as a starting nba guard, with his lack of 3pt shooting, his game better translates to just come off the bench.

His game translates to China. Payton has been released for nothing by clubs that needed (at the time) a rotation point guard in the worst possible way. Orlando, New Orleans and Phoenix all desperately needed a starting point guard. They all released him for essentially nothing. He's on this roster because of Scott f'ing Perry.

It's not only that he can't shoot at all, but unless he's being embarrassed by a Cleveland zone played by a G-League team he won't even shoot them. He shot like 20% on less than 2 attempts. Being bad and not even attempting them is the worst of both worlds.

There is no excuse for him to play one minute for this team, that is going absolutely nowhere and has 2 guards in their last year to evaluate. DSJ looks horrid, but I'd still rather have him play 12 minutes than have Payton play, it's just adding no value.

That film from Clevelands juggernaut Mooney, D. Wade, Opie, Levi Johnson and some road apple at center zone should be the end of his playing time. Again if you release him he WILL NOT PLAY A MEANINGFUL MINUTE for another team, I'd **** put my nutsack in a deep fryer if a playoff team picked him off waivers and played him real minutes.

[thebuzzardman]

So Quickley just might be a messiah if he can turn Randle into a winning player because Dubious Handle had more assists than he has FGA.

Quickley might be an exorcist because with him on the court next to Mitch the young big didn't commit one foul.

Quickley just may be a prophet because somehow he found Knox's 3 stroke.

.....or maybe he's just the Knicks PG of the future...which would be a harder thing to accomplish than being those other three.

Thins won't begin the season with him as starter because I suspect he thinks there some justifiable reasoning to support that erroneous conclusion but coach...prove me wrong.

Only reason I see for Quickley not starting, that a head coach would use, either as legit or bit of an excuse, is that he'd rather get Quickley acclimated to legit NBA players under legit NBA conditions (real games) for X amount of games off the bench, then work him into the starting lineup.
Where we'd like X = 10 games but
X = 36 games, probably

[Jeff Van Gully]

720.ru, create an account and DL the game via torrent.
The one up is the cav's feed.

It's a toss up which feed will show up, and I've rarely, if ever, seen two.

Usually I cringe when I get the other team's feed, though there are few announcers I like, like Dominique Wilkens doing the Hawks.

The Cav's announcers were kind of clowning the Knicks in the first game.

I'm excited that I got the Cav's announcers to watch the game again, after having the MSG feed.
Their tears will be delicious.

wow. dominique is def in my bottom 5. he is one of the least insightful, most spicy mouth...

Normally, I'd agree, but for some reason, I get a kick out of him.

i hear you. i can't even get austin carr "at least he's kinda funny" relationship with him. probably because i live in this horrible overlap market where i have to watch both hornets and hawks broadcasts on fox sports south. that's sometimes 8 mandatory dominique and **** dell curry coverage broadcasts, minus the in-person charlotte games i attend.