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[MrFortune3]

WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.

Gobert is a constant threat to win DPOY and he is the key to their defensive scheme.
People need to stop parroting the "bigs who cannot score heavily on offensive have no place in today's game" nonsense.
As much as people don't want to hear it, Gobert is just as important to the Jazz as Mitchell. You take Gobert off that team and it won't matter what Mitchell does, they will sink. The same is true with taking Mitchell off the team. They need one another and the Jazz had to keep him.

Whiteside isn't near the defender that Gobert is. Saving money does not help make the Jazz better in that much of a downgrade.

Also, the Supermax is 228, he signed for 205. 23 mil less than the supermax.

[TheStig]

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

I think this statement is interesting. I could turn it around and say "who would you rather have, Trae Young at $175 million or Jeff Teague at $2 million. Or Reggie Jackson at $2M."

It asks a lot of questions on what defense amounts to. But more importantly, what does it mean to pay for elite.

Young only makes like 9 mill. But I'll play the game with Fox. He just resigned for 5/150. I'd easily take him over Teague or Jackson. PG is worth way more than C. Fox is versatile and plays a modern game and is young. Gobert is 28.5 and will be slowing down and doesn't play a modern game. That last 2-3 years is going to be dreadful. Fox is 23. You're getting his full prime on a pretty good deal.

[cjbulls]

WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.

So what should Utah have done? They are capped out either way. Try to trade him and rebuild? Sign Whiteside/Dwight for minimum and use the mid-level on a fringe starter?

Gobert was getting a similar contract one way or another next year, so their options were pretty limited.

Sometimes you just have to cut bait. I would have tried to move him during the off/season. They already have Favors who can start in a vacuum for them.

But if it’s so clear he cannot be paid this, who is trading for him with one year left on his deal? I know we talked about offering Lauri or WCJ plus Otto. That assuredly makes them considerably worse.

As for cutting bait, he would be replaced by nothing since they’re over the cap. The money isn’t stopping them from adding anyone and it’s not like Utah is a top draw for NBA free agents.

So you made yourself worse with no reasonable way to recover, and for what, so the owner can keep a few extra bucks for your next contending run in 5-15 years?

[cjbulls]

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

I think this statement is interesting. I could turn it around and say "who would you rather have, Trae Young at $175 million or Jeff Teague at $2 million. Or Reggie Jackson at $2M."

It asks a lot of questions on what defense amounts to. But more importantly, what does it mean to pay for elite.

Young only makes like 9 mill. But I'll play the game with Fox. He just resigned for 5/150. I'd easily take him over Teague or Jackson. PG is worth way more than C. Fox is versatile and plays a modern game and is young. Gobert is 28.5 and will be slowing down and doesn't play a modern game. That last 2-3 years is going to be dreadful. Fox is 23. You're getting his full prime on a pretty good deal.

Trae will be getting a max extension and I thought he was a good offensive extreme example to Rudy’s defensive extreme. The age part is important but 28 isn’t an old man, especially for a big man with game based on length (a la Tyson Chandler).

The point is more to say the bargain player doesn’t impact winning so, yes in a vacuum it’s a better value but in reality it doesn’t move the needle for your team.

[TheStig]

So what should Utah have done? They are capped out either way. Try to trade him and rebuild? Sign Whiteside/Dwight for minimum and use the mid-level on a fringe starter?

Gobert was getting a similar contract one way or another next year, so their options were pretty limited.

Sometimes you just have to cut bait. I would have tried to move him during the off/season. They already have Favors who can start in a vacuum for them.

But if it’s so clear he cannot be paid this, who is trading for him with one year left on his deal? I know we talked about offering Lauri or WCJ plus Otto. That assuredly makes them considerably worse.

As for cutting bait, he would be replaced by nothing since they’re over the cap. The money isn’t stopping them from adding anyone and it’s not like Utah is a top draw for NBA free agents.

So you made yourself worse with no reasonable way to recover, and for what, so the owner can keep a few extra bucks for your next contending run in 5-15 years?

What are you talking about? He absolutely has some trade value to a team who wants him. Are you getting dollar for dollar return? Probably not. But that team would likely be better if they flipped him to Detroit for Blake Griffin. Or some other deal for a better fit on a shorter and cheaper deal.

They're indeed over the cap but this deal will push them into the LT and limit resigning or getting other guys in.

[TheStig]

I think this statement is interesting. I could turn it around and say "who would you rather have, Trae Young at $175 million or Jeff Teague at $2 million. Or Reggie Jackson at $2M."

It asks a lot of questions on what defense amounts to. But more importantly, what does it mean to pay for elite.

Young only makes like 9 mill. But I'll play the game with Fox. He just resigned for 5/150. I'd easily take him over Teague or Jackson. PG is worth way more than C. Fox is versatile and plays a modern game and is young. Gobert is 28.5 and will be slowing down and doesn't play a modern game. That last 2-3 years is going to be dreadful. Fox is 23. You're getting his full prime on a pretty good deal.

Trae will be getting a max extension and I thought he was a good offensive extreme example to Rudy’s defensive extreme. The age part is important but 28 isn’t an old man, especially for a big man with game based on length (a la Tyson Chandler).

The point is more to say the bargain player doesn’t impact winning so, yes in a vacuum it’s a better value but in reality it doesn’t move the needle for your team.

I disagree with you. Position and versatility matter. A big older plotting C is just not the guy you give a more than max but less than supermax deal. A pg can't get away with only being good at defense and lobs. That guy is Kris Dunn and he got 5 mill a year, not 40 something. The guy closest is someone who can't shoot like Simmons. But Simmons is an elite perimeter defender, passer and has great handles. You can run the offense through him. He just can't shoot. And Gobert isn't even a defender like AD that can switch and match up with guys on the perimeter. So now as he slows down you're gonna have people switch and beat him.

It's a really dumb signing. They're basically grasping at straws here.

[cjbulls]

Sometimes you just have to cut bait. I would have tried to move him during the off/season. They already have Favors who can start in a vacuum for them.

But if it’s so clear he cannot be paid this, who is trading for him with one year left on his deal? I know we talked about offering Lauri or WCJ plus Otto. That assuredly makes them considerably worse.

As for cutting bait, he would be replaced by nothing since they’re over the cap. The money isn’t stopping them from adding anyone and it’s not like Utah is a top draw for NBA free agents.

So you made yourself worse with no reasonable way to recover, and for what, so the owner can keep a few extra bucks for your next contending run in 5-15 years?

What are you talking about? He absolutely has some trade value to a team who wants him. Are you getting dollar for dollar return? Probably not. But that team would likely be better if they flipped him to Detroit for Blake Griffin. Or some other deal for a better fit on a shorter and cheaper deal.

They're indeed over the cap but this deal will push them into the LT and limit resigning or getting other guys in.

So rather than pay 28yo 40M over 5, you want to pay 31yo injured Blake 38M over 2? I’m confused by the logic.

No one else on that team really matters other than Gobert and Mitchell. That’s the point. They impact the winning.

[step]

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

That's a rather simplistic way to look at the signing, ignoring important factors like cap space, bird rights, and building upon the future.

Take his 25M off the books and sign a Howard/McGee, who else are they signing afterward? They're basically capped out without his deal.
Then, what do they do when that player leaves the next year? Who are they replacing them with? Noting this is going to eat into the MLE again and again. Also, is that really going to make Mitchell happy in the long term?
While his salary may seem high, it's movable and actually is valuable in the context as they can operate over the cap. We're paying more for Porter just for reference.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Read on Twitter

[ZOMG]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Kuzma played with two NBA superstars last season, one of whom is dedicated to spoon-feeding 3pt looks to guards and wings. Despite this, Kuz only shot 31.6% from the perimeter... and got 13 million per.

If Lauri signs for anything under 16, he's stupid.

[kulaz3000]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Read on Twitter

That would be a fantastic deal for Lauri, but unlikely to happen.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Kuzma played with two NBA superstars last season, one of whom is dedicated to spoon-feeding 3pt looks to guards and wings. Despite this, Kuz only shot 31.6% from the perimeter... and got 13 million per.

If Lauri signs for anything under 16, he's stupid.

We need to have value deals. We are lucky with Zach deal but wont get that again.

But like I said I doubt Lauri would take it. Especially next year knowing there will be tons of teams with cap space and no one to spend it on.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Read on Twitter

That would be a fantastic deal for Lauri, but unlikely to happen.

It would. Lauri would probably take it but his agent wouldnt. I assume Lauri is going to get at least what Bertans got. Which is 5/80 even if not with us.

[TheStig]

But if it’s so clear he cannot be paid this, who is trading for him with one year left on his deal? I know we talked about offering Lauri or WCJ plus Otto. That assuredly makes them considerably worse.

As for cutting bait, he would be replaced by nothing since they’re over the cap. The money isn’t stopping them from adding anyone and it’s not like Utah is a top draw for NBA free agents.

So you made yourself worse with no reasonable way to recover, and for what, so the owner can keep a few extra bucks for your next contending run in 5-15 years?

What are you talking about? He absolutely has some trade value to a team who wants him. Are you getting dollar for dollar return? Probably not. But that team would likely be better if they flipped him to Detroit for Blake Griffin. Or some other deal for a better fit on a shorter and cheaper deal.

They're indeed over the cap but this deal will push them into the LT and limit resigning or getting other guys in.

So rather than pay 28yo 40M over 5, you want to pay 31yo injured Blake 38M over 2? I’m confused by the logic.

No one else on that team really matters other than Gobert and Mitchell. That’s the point. They impact the winning.

Well first it's simple math. 205 compared to 76.

Second, Griffin is better if he's healthy and would be a very dynamic duo with Mitchell.

Mitchell and Gobert impact winning? They're 1-8 in the 2nd round.

[TheStig]

I like the Kuzma deal for someone like Lauri. He probably wont take it but that would be perfect in my opinion

Read on Twitter

That would be a fantastic deal for Lauri, but unlikely to happen.

It would. Lauri would probably take it but his agent wouldnt. I assume Lauri is going to get at least what Bertans got. Which is 5/80 even if not with us.

It depends on if he wants gaurnteed money now or wants to take a risk and hit FA. I think he'll get Bertans money in the summer. But if he wants to gaurntee lifetime wealth, he might take the money now.

[TheStig]

WOW Gobert got that 200 million dollar deal.

I mean I like Gobert, but that is ridiculous in this day and age.

Honestly, would you rather pay Gobert 200 mil or pay Whiteside 2mil. Or Howard 2 mil or Mcgee 2 mill on 1 year deals. I can go on and on.

Supermax is for the best of the best. A league wide franchise player type. What Utah has done is like paying Andre Drummond 200 million. You can do it but most likely regret it.

Gobert is a constant threat to win DPOY and he is the key to their defensive scheme.
People need to stop parroting the "bigs who cannot score heavily on offensive have no place in today's game" nonsense.
As much as people don't want to hear it, Gobert is just as important to the Jazz as Mitchell. You take Gobert off that team and it won't matter what Mitchell does, they will sink. The same is true with taking Mitchell off the team. They need one another and the Jazz had to keep him.

Whiteside isn't near the defender that Gobert is. Saving money does not help make the Jazz better in that much of a downgrade.

Also, the Supermax is 228, he signed for 205. 23 mil less than the supermax.

This is a silly statement. Take Mitchell off the team and they are in contention for the #1 draft pick. Trying to equate the two is silly. Every team in the league would take Mitchell over Gobert.

This move basically caps them into being a 1st round team. They don't have any flexibility to improve and Gobert will decline as this deal happens. I will agree he's a excellent defensive C. But he's the only defensive specialist in the league making 40 mill a year........

He's a good player on a great players contract in a small market.

[erasmusmrr]

I guess PG13 shouldn't be paid either.

[cjbulls]

What are you talking about? He absolutely has some trade value to a team who wants him. Are you getting dollar for dollar return? Probably not. But that team would likely be better if they flipped him to Detroit for Blake Griffin. Or some other deal for a better fit on a shorter and cheaper deal.

They're indeed over the cap but this deal will push them into the LT and limit resigning or getting other guys in.

So rather than pay 28yo 40M over 5, you want to pay 31yo injured Blake 38M over 2? I’m confused by the logic.

No one else on that team really matters other than Gobert and Mitchell. That’s the point. They impact the winning.

Well first it's simple math. 205 compared to 76.

Second, Griffin is better if he's healthy and would be a very dynamic duo with Mitchell.

Mitchell and Gobert impact winning? They're 1-8 in the 2nd round.

Who do you think is getting them into the second round? They’re still young players, getting better.

Blake isn’t the same player now, unfortunately. I don’t know if you’ve been following the Pistons but they aren’t winning anything with Blake. Not only that, but his trajectory is downward while Gobert is mid prime.

[kulaz3000]

He's a good player on a great players contract in a small market.

While I agree he isn't worth the contract he received, I don't think he is just a "good" player either. He is a legtimate top player in this league who probably makes the biggest impact on the defensive end in the entire league. Now is he a player you can build your team around, probably not.

That's the difficulty in building a competitive team, you either luck out with a top 10 player in this league, where you happily extend and extend them on max contracts, or being good enough where you have a top 20-25 player who still commands the max around the league, but you will suffer for years if you lose that player.

I'm sure it was a difficult decision for the Jazz, but they almost had to resign him to remain competitive, despite as you said, they are likely maxed out as being a first/second round player team for the next 5 years or so, unless they are able to swing a big deal at some point to mix things up.

[TheStig]

So rather than pay 28yo 40M over 5, you want to pay 31yo injured Blake 38M over 2? I’m confused by the logic.

No one else on that team really matters other than Gobert and Mitchell. That’s the point. They impact the winning.

Well first it's simple math. 205 compared to 76.

Second, Griffin is better if he's healthy and would be a very dynamic duo with Mitchell.

Mitchell and Gobert impact winning? They're 1-8 in the 2nd round.

Who do you think is getting them into the second round? They’re still young players, getting better.

Blake isn’t the same player now, unfortunately. I don’t know if you’ve been following the Pistons but they aren’t winning anything with Blake. Not only that, but his trajectory is downward while Gobert is mid prime.

Before he got injured before this past year, he was playing at a really high level and willed that pathetic team into the playoffs.

And then you can flip him and other assets for someone better if you like. No one is touching that terrible gobert deal.